Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Michelle Obama says Lincoln Bedroom Now Off Limits for Sleepovers

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:56 AM
Original message
Michelle Obama says Lincoln Bedroom Now Off Limits for Sleepovers
Lincoln Bedroom Now Off Limits for Sleepovers

By GottaLaff



"Mrs. Obama led the two through the halls, and then they stopped by the Lincoln bedroom. They stood in the doorway, and then took a step inside, but went no deeper. Everything looked the same, but something was different. 'We don't allow guests to stay in this room anymore,' Mrs. Obama explained. She spoke of it as a place of reverence. They keep it apart, it's not for overnights."
A touch of class... and wisdom.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.blogspot.com/2009/12/lincoln-bedroom-now-off-limits-for.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. That story was way overblown
I'm sure the Obamas have friends spend the night. I know I would. They have probably just designated a different room for guests.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. They didn't say they didn't have anyone stay over at the WH at all
They said they just didn't let anyone sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom. Which is as it should be, since that room is sacred.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
levander Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The whole building is sacred
Why can't you sleep in that one room?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Cause the first lady said so.
Got it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
levander Donating Member (257 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Doh! Now it makes sense...
But, I just don't get why Ken was agreeing with her. I'll ask the First Lady why next time I see her. But, as long as Ken is around the board, I can just ask him on here. Ken, what makes that room so much more sacred than the rest of the building that it's a good idea not to sleep in there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. maybe because The First Lady's ancestors were slaves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
74. Lincoln's ghost perhaps. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Why is it more sacred than any other room in the White House?
I don't see the point here. It's the president's residence. If he wants to have overnight guests, what's wrong with that?

Like I said, way overblown then. Let's overblow it again!
:sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Maybe because Lincoln was said to have freed the slaves,
and Michelle is a direct descendants of slaves,
and so to her, that particular president's room is
more sacred than the rest?

I know Pres. Obama's favorite President is Lincoln,
so that would also work.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. He freed the slaves only as a practical necessity. This is what Lincoln said about race.
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 04:16 AM by saracat
He is given way too much credit, and Michelle would be aware of that. It would be more appropriate to keep the JFK bedroom sacred in reality.This is really more a PR gesture dealing with ethics and trading the room for donations as has been done in the past.


“I say then I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, -- that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.” - Abraham Lincoln

September 18, 1858

During the Fourth Debate with Senator Stephan A. Douglas
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Oh for the love of God, let's tear down Lincoln. As for JFK, he was a womanizer of the first order..
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 04:38 AM by Hekate
... which you will no doubt bring up when it suits you.

Abraham. Lincoln. Freed. The. Slaves.

And. He. Was. Murdered. For. It.

Hekate
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. ...
:fistbump:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 05:33 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. ~*~
:fistbump: back atcha
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. Can I had a knuckle or two?
:fistbump: :fistbump:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
silverweb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
38. Well said!
:applause:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Princess Turandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. And here's one of the things that he said about slavery..
'As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes." When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty — to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be take pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy'

1855 Letter to Joshua Fry Speed

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
34. Thanks for that quote!
I knew of such quotes by Lincoln, but was unable to Google them on short notice. Otherwise, I'd have been able to make a more effective response in my other posting on this thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
66. Oh Wow! Thank you for that..
Pres Lincoln was such an Aquarius~
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. "..bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races"
These and other such quotes were from those Lincoln-Douglas debates. To remain politically viable, Lincoln HAD to talk that way. otherwise, in the quaint phrase of later Dixiecrats, he'd be "out-niggered" by his opponent.

As a political role model, Obama chose wisely and on more than one level.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Thank you. Well stated.
Was thinking that needed to be pointed out and was struggling how to do it when I read your response. This is also my understanding of the comment and I think this has been pretty well documented by now that he had to mask his abolitionist leanings in order to get elected.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #18
29. Gosh, you mean Lincoln
bowed to the political realities of his day? Who would have thought? And yet, he still managed to win a civil war and begin the march towards equality in America through incremental changes?

Lincoln doesn't seem to be anymore popular here at DU than...what's his name again.....oh yes, Obama.

Shame that!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Aramchek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
40. does Arizona celebrate MLK Day yet??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #11
58. He FREED them. Actions speak louder than words.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NOLALady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
70. Doesn't matter why.,
He did the right thing. It was a step in the right direction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
72. He was replying to charges that he was going to encourage citizenship and
intermarrage, a position that was not only not accepted by the anti slave north but also not universally supported by the abolitionists.

Here is what Fredrick Douglas, and early critic and eventually strong admirer of the President and his strategy, said;



Mr. Lincoln said: Tell Governor Buckingham to wait, for I want to have a long talk with my friend, Frederick Douglass., I interposed and begged him to see the governor at once, as I could wait, but no, he persisted that that he wanted to talk with me and that Governor Buckingham could wait. In his company I was never in any way reminded of my humble origin, or of my unpopular colour
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stevenleser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #11
73. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how Lincoln viewed and acted on the issue
If you read Doris Kearns Goodwin's epic work on Lincoln and his Presidency, Team of Rivals, you would not have this misunderstanding.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-29-09 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
76. Thanks for that quote.
Perhaps if we saw politicians for the sometimes great and sometimes severely flawed human beings they are we wouldn't fall for the PR propaganda that surrounds them and has led this country to the edge of a cliff.

And I have yet to read about or see a sacred politician.

I do respect Michelle's respect for history. The white house isn't a disney world for the elite. The history it contains belongs to all of us and shouldn't be cheapened.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
68. Amendment XIII freed the slaves
Lincoln never freed a single slave.

He never wanted political or economic integration either. He was in favor of deporting and colonizing ex-slaves.

This isn't "tearing down" Lincoln. It de-mythologizing history, as written by the winners. History is neither convenient or pretty.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arkana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
71. Seeing as how it's HAUNTED, I should think not.
:P
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Bush was charging $100000 a night to stay in Lincoln Bedroom
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 05:04 AM by FreakinDJ
using it to collect campaign contributions

After a two year period of remodeling led by First Lady Laura Bush starting in 2004, the Lincoln Bedroom was updated and now even sports a flat-screen TV, concealed in a 19th-century walnut wardrobe.

AP reported that President George W. Bush had 270 overnight guests in the White House from June 2002 through December 2003 -- the guest list was kept under wraps after that. Some of those early guests were among his biggest campaign fund-raisers. Like Clinton, Bush called them friends who happened to be donors

http://www.kfoxtv.com/politics/17724672/detail.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
23. there you go.....
.... I'm not sure everyone ^ up thread understands this. The point of the article is that the Obamas aren't "selling" the room to the highest bidder.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. They don't need to
They have the health insurance companies :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #14
31. Well there you have it...
the reason for the Obama seal on the Lincoln bedroom door. Lincoln was a Republican revered by the GOP and Bush for freeing those ungrateful negroes and for being a great fund raising tool, even 140+ years in the grave.

Yep, it's just Democrat spite, that's what it is.

May be I better add this.......:sarcasm:

for the sarcasm challenged.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
69. Any proof to the accusation of charging a 100,000 a night
or just gas.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. I guess Linda and Markie won't be jumping on the bed again
And with two small children Michelle is probably very circumspect about who spends the night.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:10 AM
Response to Original message
2. Smart move. Good for her. Love that Michelle! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. The White House
is surely the people's house, yet the Lincoln Bedroom is special. It's a national treasure. The deep historic significance of that room can't be understated, and it's wonderful to see a first family give it the respect it deserves.

There are plenty of places for guests to sleep. There is still another empty bedroom on the second floor (the Queens' bedroom), and on the third floor there are 5 additional designated bedrooms besides the one used by Michelle's mother.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. and there is Blair House as well
along with I am sure plenty of other spots in the city, like Hotels for visitors to find a place to sleep.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Heck, if I were to stay in the White House
I'd ask for a cot to be set up in the Solarium on the third floor. The view is spectacular.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. Lee was offered command of the Union Army at Blair House. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
21. How about FDR's bedroom he did a lot for this country
or maybe JFK. When is it going to stop. I agree that bush rented it out but in a round about way, and that should never happen, but that room is the same as any other. There were quite a few GREAT presidents not just Lincoln.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Does JFK and FDR have a "room" other than where
The Obamas sleep now?

I didn't think so.

There aren't that many bedrooms in the White House.
I certainly don't think they have one for every President there ever was.

Please tell me more about this White House you speak of?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Come on, Frenchie, surely President Obama can find a room to sleep in
Off the kitchen, perhaps, or over the garage. That way, the room where all those other presidents slept can be held sacred and go unslept in. The door can get a plaque that reads, "President Obama Did Not Sleep Here, But Lots Of Other Presidents Did." :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
verges Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. The Lincoln Bedroom was not
Lincoln's bedroom. It was his office. The West Wing didn't exist then. And it was in the Lincoln Bedroom where the Emancipation Proclamation was signed. That gives theat particular room more historical significance than other bedrooms in the White House.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I certainly agree with that assessment
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. Indeed.
The room wasn't the place where Lincoln slept, but the room where our history was forever changed.

Although marked "circa 1863", this close-up photo of Lincoln was apparently taken during his meeting with his cabinet as depicted in this etching showing the whole scene.



Abraham Lincoln in his office- circa 1863



An etching of the first reading of the Emancipation Proclamation with the Cabinet in 1862 (Library of Congress)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. The first time I stood in front of the Lincoln Memorial, I found there with
tears running down my face.

I think that Michelle Obama is correct, the Lincoln Bedroom is sacred.

But maybe freeing the slaves wasn't all that big a deal--and getting killed for it, nothing at all special.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. LOL - another controversy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
32. Wow. That's bigger news than health care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #32
51. I think the deconstructing of that list of Obama accomplishment was much better time spent......
than me simply posting one thread dealing with something else,
that makes it more difficult for people to flame bait,
because to some degree, it isn't really political at all.

You are correct, this article is barely a tiny ant
compared to the many threads helping out the elephants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
33. Lincoln, of course, is one of Obama's role models
He began his campaign in Springfield; he gave a "house divided" speech; he is said to have modeled his cabinet on Lincoln's "team of rivals".

Now, the Lincoln bedroom was never Lincoln's bedroom, and it doesn't contain the bed he slept in or anything. But it was his office, and a copy of the Gettysburg address is kept there. So I can see why the Obamas treat it reverentially. It might not be necessary, but it's their thing. I'm sure there are plenty of other bedrooms to use.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
36. Apparently it was not even a bedroom when the Lincolns lived there
The GOPress hammered the Clintons about guests staying there , because they could..and the dutiful non-so-MSM picked it up and ran with it,.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I have never understood any of the fuss
I recall reading that the Kennedy family slept it the bed on their first night in the White House. As noted above, The Bush people trading it for campaign donations was pretty disgusting but otherwise, I figure the first family is free to invite whatever guest they see fit. If Michelle Obama prefers not to use it at all, that is her right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whistler162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
41. Wonder what the daughters and their friends did to
get sleepovers banned in the Lincoln bedroom?:0
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Retrograde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. my thoughts exactly!
If I were a pre-teen or teen and my father were president I'd be begging to use the Lincoln bedroom for a sleepover!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Lincoln instituted the 1st Income tax & suspended Habeas Corpus
He was the 1st President to institute a Federal Income tax. In 1861, President Lincoln and Congress passed an income tax law to assist with funding the Civil War with the south.
And they say Democrats are "tax and spend"? Lincoln was a Republican.


He also suspended Habeas Corpus: With Congress not in session until July, Lincoln assumed all powers not delegated in the Constitution, including the power to suspend habeas corpus. In 1861, Lincoln had already suspended civil law in territories where resistance to the North's military power would be dangerous. In 1862, when copperhead democrats began criticizing Lincoln's violation of the Constitution, Lincoln suspended habeas corpus throughout the nation and had many copperhead democrats arrested under military authority because he felt that the State Courts in the north west would not convict war protesters such as the copperheads. He proclaimed that all persons who discouraged enlistments or engaged in disloyal practices would come under Martial Law. Finally, in 1866, after the war, the Supreme Court officially restored habeas corpus in Ex-parte Milligan, ruling that military trials in areas where the civil courts were capable of functioning were illegal.


As far as "freeing the slaves" Lincoln stated that "Negroes had the rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" in the first of the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Publicly, Lincoln said he was against Negro suffrage in his speech in Columbus, Ohio on September 16, 1859.

Total equality was another matter. He did not say they had a right to complete equality with white American citizens. In the September 18, 1858 debate, Lincoln said:

"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_on_slavery

Lincoln made it clear that the North was fighting the war to preserve the Union. On August 22, 1862, just a few weeks before signing the Proclamation and after he had already discussed a draft of it with his cabinet in July, he wrote a letter in response to an editorial by Horace Greeley of the New York Tribune which had urged complete abolition:

"I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_on_slavery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln_on_slavery

If you wanted civil rights & voting rights for Blacks, you would have to look to LBJ, not Lincoln.

And it's also true, neither Lincoln slept in that bedroom. Maybe someone should clue Mrs. Obama in.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. Now it's OK
Edited on Mon Dec-28-09 03:35 PM by Undercurrent
to post catty remarks about our Democratic First Lady?

"And it's also true, neither Lincoln slept in that bedroom. Maybe someone should clue Mrs. Obama in."



Our well read, sensitive, intelligent and extremely well educated First Lady knows the history. Duh.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Apparently she doesn't, and that's cool
Can't expect her to know everything. And my "remark" was not meant to catty. I was just pointing out a fact. And while she is 1st lady, she is also a human being capable of mistakes, Not 'Queen of the Universe', all wise and all knowing. Chill out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Undercurrent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Except she didn't say what you think she said.
The quote attributed to her from the OP doesn't implies in any way that she is ignorant of the history of the Lincoln Bedroom.

'We don't allow guests to stay in this room anymore"

The rest of your comment "...Not 'Queen of the Universe', all wise and all knowing. Chill out." is silly.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Actually I think it's quite appropriate
And I think you should chill out. The OP posted the article & I read it. Why this room is more "reverent" than any other room in the White House is beyond me, given the history there. And especially of Lincoln, a Republican. Who I am not a big admirer of. But if Mrs Obama says "no more over-nighters", then that's how she feels. Why she feels that way, I have no idea. But to each his own.

I'm not the only poster that said the Lincoln bedroom was not a bedroom, but you apparently think I was trying to be "catty", when that was not my intent, so it's your problem, not mine.

I think Lincoln suspending Habeas Corpus is much more interesting topic. Not to mention his so called "freeing" of the slaves. And being the 1st President to institute a Federal Income Tax, which I find funny, since Democrats are the ones with the label of "Tax and Spend". Sorry but I wouldn't go out of my way to be "reverent" of Lincoln, bedroom or not.

I'm not into hero-worship. Your attitude is like "how dare you question her" Well I dare. She isn't a God, she's a woman. I know many women like Mrs Obama, whom I respect & admire. But they will be first ones to tell you they don't always get things right. In fact I don't know anyone who does. But to make such a big deal as to what you perceive to be an "insult", is both a waste of my time & yours.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Did you know that since Lincoln, the Republicans of those days,
are much closer to the Democrats of today,

and that the Democrats of yesteryear are really closer to the Republicans of today?

Because when you stress "Lincoln, a Republican. Who I am not a big admirer of",
you don't seem to understand this....

Is that the case,
or is there another reason you don't like Pres. Lincoln?

and I am now interested in which past Presidents you did like, if any.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. FrenchieCat...Funny, didn't you say you put me on ignore?
Well anyways.....

The Republicans of those days are much "closer" to the Democrats of today? Really? They were for civil rights, and voting rights, for blacks and women? Hey lady, want to buy a bridge?

If you are talking about the "Dixiecrats" (democrats) they turned into Republicans once civil rights were established. Doesn't say much for either of them.

And Lincoln's interest was in saving the Union, not civil rights. He knew if he abolished slavery he would bring the South to their knees economically.

So when I hear how Lincoln "freed the slaves" I think yeah, to use black only bathrooms, live in segregated housing and attend segregated schools, not being able to vote, and be hung from trees without anyone being held accountable and punished.

It's unfortunate that Vietnam destroyed what was good about LBJ's legacy. But I can't think of anything better than the 1964 Civil Rights & Voting Act. To me that's much "closer" to Freedom and Emancipation. The Democrats lost a lot of red states with it's passage, but it was the right thing to do.

And as for Lincoln keeping the Union together, I can't help but wonder when I see such a sharp divide that still exists. I can't tell you how angry it makes me, when I see these frigging Teabaggers bitching about "taxes". I will wager to bet 90% of them don't even live in a donor state. I live in a donor state..we get about 60 something cents back on a dollar while Texas gets 96 cents back on a dollar, and their governor wants to secede. I'd really like to know what "taxes" they are paying. They want government out of their lives? Good!~ Don't accept federal money...make it on your own & no, don't expect the military to defend you, because u dummies, that's where the taxes you cry about goes to pay these soldiers, you claim to "support".

I'm pissed. I feel like we are being taxed to death in my state during a fiscal crisis. And I have to watch these Teabaggers bitch? Why doesnt someone in my party tell them we carrying their asses?

And now if it's isnt bad enough we have to make cuts to the disabled in my state: "States With Expanded Health Coverage Fight Bill" "States that have already broadly expanded health care coverage are pushing back against the Senate overhaul bill, arguing that it unfairly penalizes them in favor of states that have done little or nothing to extend benefits to the uninsured. With tax revenues down and budgets breaking, the states — including Arizona, California, New Jersey, New York and Wisconsin — say they cannot afford to essentially subsidize other states’ expansion of health care. But the roughly 20 states that have already expanded coverage in some form will pay a greater proportion of their new Medicaid costs under the bill than those states, largely in the South, that until now have covered relatively few of their poorest residents." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/health/policy/27states.html?_r=2

"Largely in the South" enough said. We are still divided.

I'm no fan of Herbert Hoover either.

Hope that answers your questions, you can now put me back on ignore.





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. I think in a way that your thoughts of Lincoln parallel your thoughts of Obama.....
in that if Lincoln didn't achieve perfection in what he accomplished,
than it wasn't good enough.

So I'm glad you are consistent....at least.

However, if Lincoln wouldn't have done what he did,
LBJ would not have followed with his actions....
which were a legacy action in deference to JFK,
but was only made possible from the public emotions stirred
after his tragic assasination.

Abolishing Slavery would hurt the entire country, in terms of economics,
not just the South, as the Southern textile sent to the North
would have end up costing more, and therefore the end results would have been
higher prices for everyone, something that not many wanted to see (see your rant on taxes)
and saving the Union was exactly caused by the issue of the South not wanting
the abolition of slavery...so if Lincoln wanted to perserve the Union that badly,
he would have favored the South, and not the Abolitionists.
That's why I don't believe that Lincoln was singular in his reasons for
abolishing slavery, and that is why he ended up walking a fine line
which is what made him a great President; because he was able to achieve both ends,
perserve the Union and abolish slavery. The fact that he didn't do more for former slaves,
as you appear to believe that it would have been feasible for him to make them equal in everyway right then and there, may be because he didn't live long enough....
but that is something we will never know, and we can only speculate.

As for being on ignore, I don't have to push a button to do that when I feel the need.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #56
65. I see no parellels between Lincoln & Obama
None. Other than the fact he's Obama's hero.

You really should read up more about the Civil War. You have no idea what Lincoln was trying to do. But he accomplished it and to this day, the poorest states are still in the South.


That's why we have "Donor States"...in fact you live in one...how's that and Arnold working out for you?


And as far as "perfection" When someone promises "Credit Card Reform" I didn't think that meant that Banks who issue credit cards would get away with no caps and a "bonus" of Concealed weapons in National Parks. But that's what we got after giving them bailouts via our tax dollars, interest free, while they continue to screw the consumer.

In addition, there have been no real banking reforms, except for a "lecture" from Obama.

That's as far from "perfection" as you can get.

Your state & my state are both in a fiscal crisis...so I'm putting this up again, so maybe you will understand why people are worried about Mandates & what they & their states will be able to afford and can't truly afford to follow any politican blind:

"States With Expanded Health Coverage Fight Bill"

States that have already broadly expanded health care coverage are pushing back against the Senate overhaul bill, arguing that it unfairly penalizes them in favor of states that have done little or nothing to extend benefits to the uninsured.
With tax revenues down and budgets breaking, the states — including Arizona, California, New Jersey, New York and Wisconsin — say they cannot afford to essentially subsidize other states’ expansion of health care.

The bill passed by the Senate on Thursday would move toward universal health insurance coverage in large part by expanding Medicaid, a program whose costs have traditionally been shared by the states and the federal government.

But the roughly 20 states that have already expanded coverage in some form will pay a greater proportion of their new Medicaid costs under the bill than those states, largely in the South, that until now have covered relatively few of their poorest residents.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/health/policy/27states.html?_r=1


I know you are trying to rope me in with this "perfection" bs...but sorry that isn't going to work. It's not always better to settle for less, because sometimes "less" can be even worse.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Oh and one more President
I'm not a fan of Ronald Reagan either. His failure to acknowledge the AIDS epidemic and allow it to spread through the Nations bloodbanks, had a devastating effect on a member of my family. He was born premature & required many blood transfusions. Enough said about that. Hell is too good for Ronald Reagan, as far as I'm concerned.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #57
61. But W was your fave, right?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. No FDR
but thanks for asking
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
60. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #44
59. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #44
64. The Lincoln Bedroom was never Lincoln's bedroom.
In Lincoln's time it was his office and Cabinet room. It became "Lincoln's Bedroom" in 1945 during the Truman administration. Mary Lincoln ordered the suite of bedroom furniture in 1861, but neither Lincoln ever used it.







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
50. Oh no! Now the ghost stories will begin.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. What do you mean?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. Lincoln's ghost supposedly haunts the place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
67. Good~ The next occupants can
do what they want.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-28-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
75. In the future, guests will ask to stay in the Obama bedroom.
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Nov 03rd 2024, 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC