revisionism on Morning Joe is breathtaking

[Syrinx]

The creator of Osama bin Laden is reveling in his death.

Mika's dad, Zbignew.

That guy is more responsible than any single person in the world, other than bin Laden himself, for what Osama became and did.

And he's now on TV talking about what a great thing it is that he's dead, without acknowledging an iota of guilt.

I agree that it's a good thing that Osama bin Laden is dead. But why should I care to listen to the guy that first came up with the idea of funding him with American dollars?

[Hubert Flottz]

1. Mr. PNAC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apLVd7_66ds

[hlthe2b]

3. Really? Never listed on PNAC website....

Persons associated with the PNAC
Project directors



William Kristol, Co-founder and Chairman<1>
Robert Kagan, Co-founder<1>
Bruce P. Jackson<1>
Mark Gerson<1>
Randy Scheunemann<1>

Project staff

Ellen Bork, Deputy Director<1>
Gary Schmitt, Senior Fellow<1><49>
Thomas Donnelly, Senior Fellow<1>
Reuel Marc Gerecht, Senior Fellow<1>
Mitch Jackson, Senior Fellow
Timothy Lehmann, Assistant Director<1>
Michael Goldfarb, Research Associate<1>

Former directors and staff

Daniel McKivergan, Deputy Director<50>

Signatories to Statement of Principles

Elliott Abrams<5>
Gary Bauer<5>
William J. Bennett<5>
John Ellis "Jeb" Bush<5>
Richard B. Cheney<5>
Eliot A. Cohen<5>
Midge Decter<5>
Paula Dobriansky<5>
Steve Forbes<5>
Aaron Friedberg<5>
Francis Fukuyama<5>
Frank Gaffney<5>
Fred C. Ikle<5>
Donald Kagan<5>
Zalmay Khalilzad<5>
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby<5>
Norman Podhoretz<5>
J. Danforth Quayle<5>
Peter W. Rodman<5>
Stephen P. Rosen<5>
Henry S. Rowen<5>
Donald Rumsfeld<5>
Vin Weber<5>
George Weigel<5>
Paul Wolfowitz<5>

Signatories or contributors to other significant letters or reports<14>

Elliott Abrams<8><10>
Kenneth Adelman<51>
Richard V. Allen<18>
Richard L. Armitage<10>
Gary Bauer<18><51>
Jeffrey Bell<18><51>
William J. Bennett<8><10><18><51>
Jeffrey Bergner<8><10><18>
John Bolton<8><10>
Ellen Bork<51>
Rudy Boschwitz<18>
Linda Chavez<51>
Eliot Cohen<13><18><51>
Seth Cropsey<18>
Midge Decter<18><51>
Paula Dobriansky<8><10>
Thomas Donnelly<13><18><51>
Nicholas Eberstadt,<18><51><52>
Hillel Fradkin<18><51><53>
Aaron Friedberg<18>
Francis Fukuyama<8><10><18>
Frank Gaffney<18><51>
Jeffrey Gedmin<18><51>
Reuel Marc Gerecht<18><51>
Charles Hill<18><51>
Bruce P. Jackson<18><51>
Eli S. Jacobs<18>
Michael Joyce<18>
Donald Kagan<13><18><51>
Robert Kagan<8><10><13><18><51>
Stephen Kantany</>
Zalmay Khalilzad<8><10>
Jeane Kirkpatrick<18>
Charles Krauthammer<18>
William Kristol<8><10><13><18>
John Lehman<18><51>
I. Lewis Libby<13>
Tod Lindberg<51><54>
Rich Lowry<51>
Clifford May<18><51>
John McCain<55>
Joshua Muravchik<51>
Michael O'Hanlon <56><57>
Martin Peretz<18><51>
Richard Perle<8><10><18><51>
Daniel Pipes<51>
Norman Podhoretz<18><51>
Peter W. Rodman<8><10><18>
Stephen P. Rosen<13><18><51>
Donald Rumsfeld<8><10>
Randy Scheunemann<18><51>
Gary Schmitt<13><18><49><51>
William Schneider, Jr.<8><10><18><51>
Richard H. Shultz<18><58>
Henry Sokolski<18>
Stephen J. Solarz<18>
Vin Weber<8><10><18>
Leon Wieseltier<18>
Marshall Wittmann<18><51>
Paul Wolfowitz<8><10><13>
R. James Woolsey<8><10><51>
Dov Zakheim<13><59>
Robert B. Zoellick<8><10>


****************
It is my understanding that he was an adversary to the NeoCons and PNAC. Not defending him in other areas, but I don't think you are correct.

[Hubert Flottz]

8. Ideology mates?

[hlthe2b]

9. Actually no...

If you google, you will see some rather disparaging comments form several PNACers about both Brzinsky and Madeline Albright. I think you are way off base on this one, though I'm no Brzinsky fan for his role in funding the Taliban.

[Poboy]

11. The PNAC plans closely adhere to "The Grand Chessboard".

[Syrinx]

4. the enemy of my enemy is my friend

That hasn't really worked out for us as a governing philosophy. I hope we start to stray from it.

[starroute]

6. No, he was there well before PNAC

As I recall, back in 1979 he was the author of the "let's lure the Russians into an Afghan quagmire" strategy for Jimmy Carter.

And we all know how brilliantly that worked out.

I'm reminded of whichever Delphic oracle prophecy it was that told some Middle Eastern ruler, "If you invade Iran, a great empire will fall." Didn't mention that it was his own empire.

[lostnfound]

2. "What is most important to the history of the world? Some stirred-up Moslems or end of cold war?"

I was about to post a thread titled "Definition of Irony" but I see you beat me to it.

Al Qaeda, 'the database'.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Zbigniew_Brzezinski

In a 1997 interview for CNN's Cold War Series, Brzezinski hinted about the Carter Administration's proactive Afghanistan policy before the Soviet invasion in 1979, that he had conceived.

Interviewer: How did you interpret Soviet behavior in Afghanistan, such as the April revolution, the rise of... I mean, what did you think their long-term plans were, and what did you think should be done about it?
Brzezinski: I told the President, about six months before the Soviets entered Afghanistan, that in my judgment I thought they would be going into Afghanistan. And I decided then, and I recommended to the President, that we shouldn't be passive.
Interviewer: What happened?
Brzezinski: We weren't passive.
The National Security Archive, Interview with Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski, for CNN's Coldwar Series, June 13, 1997
7 months after the interview for the CNN series, Brzezinski, in a interview for the French publication, Le Nouvel Observateur, was more forthright, and unapologetically claimed to be the mastermind of a feint which caused the Soviet Union to embark upon a military intervention to support their client government in Kabul, as well as training and arming extremists, which later became the Taliban government.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?
Brzezinski: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter: We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.
Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic , having given arms and advice to future terrorists?
Brzezinski: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
Le Nouvel Observateur, Interview with Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski, Paris, January 15-21, 1998, translated by Bill Blum - <5>

[Walk away]

5. I thought that show was off the air.

Didn't they leave television and start one of those wingnut radio shows?

[fujiyama]

7. I'm kicking this

I'm tired of the cold war relic. He has his support even here. He hasn't been relevant in a long time and his thinking put US-Russia post Cold War relations back years.

[Poboy]

10. Mr proto-PNAC himself!

[SoCalDem]

12. I had to turn it off when all I saw was a parade of former-Bush people "explaining"

the whole thing..

Obama's people should have been out in force today with details given them by the WH...

This is the BIGGEST gripe I have with Obama's team.. They lay back and let Bushies fill the vacuum..

and we all know how Bushies LOVE camera-time..

By the time Obama's people start showing up, it';s always to be on defense about some idiotic thing a Bushie has pushed out into the spotlight..

[CTyankee]

13. Mika said that the Obama people were not available this morning for the show.

Mika said she could understand that and so can I. It was only the dumb repubs who obviously didn't know sh*t from shinola about this thing who were yapping. And desperately trying to come up with something that showed them as "knowledgeable." They came off a befuddled fools.

doncha know they are all so damn mad they could just explode!