Consider: we almost lost the Obama Presidency yesterday.

[kpete]

Consider: this operation could have failed.

Consider: we almost lost the Obama Presidency yesterday. If the second helicopter had also failed, perhaps we have a crash, perhaps we have Navy SEALs as hostages. A thousand things could have gone wrong. They didn't. That's partially due to careful planning; it's partially because Obama "went all in."

We all assume that Obama is our 2012 nominee. (He does too.) And yet: had there been a disaster yesterday, as with Jimmy Carter's equally brave decision to try to rescue the Iranian hostages in 1980, then we could truly have seen an injury to his Presidency that the Republicans would have tried their damnedest to make sure ruined his Presidency -- possibly, in the worst case, enough to keep him from even running.

That's what he gambled on yesterday. He staked his Presidency on this. And he won.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/02/972271/-He-Staked-His-Presidency-On-This

[MineralMan]

1. He put his faith in our highly-trained military personnel,

and they did the job they were sent to do. That's what a commander has to do. The mission was the success it was planned to be. That's just how competent a President he is.

[eridani]

25. So did Carter. Training helps a lot, but guarantees nothing n/t

[MineralMan]

28. This was a very small operation, and very tightly focused.

It was well within the capabilities of the force that was used. The other situation was very different. President Obama made a good decision, and the operation was carried out sucessfully, despite the failure of one helicopter. A backup was available. Well-planned. Well-executed. Successful.

[eridani]

34. Good point about the backup n/t

[Ratty]

2. I'm not much of a conspiracy guy

But I'll always believe Carter was set up and the rescue was botched on purpose.

[Matariki]

15. Carter WAS set up. A matter of historical record -

the fact that Reagan and Bush Sr. made an arms deal to hold the hostages during the election.

[unblock]

29. carter's efforts for a peaceful resolution were sabotaged, yes; but the rescue mission, no.

the reagan/bush sabotage was of the negotiations, out of the fear that carter would pull and "october surprise" and negotiate a peaceful resolution to the crisis. this was AFTER the helicopter rescue mission had failed.

[Poll_Blind]

27. You should read up on Operation Eagle Claw because it was not botched on purpose.

Here is the Wiki page for it. I believe you can also pull up a very, very detailed documentary on YouTube or GoogleVideo about it.

It was bad luck which caused a delay and a break in the plan and some other things (like the busload of people they had to stop) and one tragic mistake by a pilot of a Sea Stallion helicopter, crashing into the tail of a C-130 that just destroyed everything.

I used to think the exact same thing that you do. Then I actually looked into what happened and there's no way that that could have been intentional. There were so many variables completely out of human control (like the people in the bus) that were just totally random.

PB

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[Proud Liberal Dem]

3. BTW: What is it with Democratic military missions and helicopter problems?

:tinfoilhat: :shrug:

[damntexdem]

24. The same as with any others: they are dangerous.

They are NOT walks in the park.

[dkf]

4. True...could have been a disaster.

Wonder what those seals were thinking when their assumed ride home failed. I can't imagine.

[patrice]

5. People who call him "un-principled" are really rather clue-less.

He's so principled that the HOW of a principle, whether it works or not, is as important at the principle itself.

At some risk to his own agenda, it's not just political theater to this guy.

I DO NOT agree in all things, but it IS fascinating to watch.

[coalition_unwilling]

14. Fine, he's principled if his principle is that the end justifies the means. Sorry

to rain on your parade, but you really should read this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4835439

[patrice]

21. I don't think you or I know enough to answer the "if" you refer to absolutely.

[leftstreet]

6. Hopefully this makes up for botched Jobs Program, botched Healthcare, botched Bailouts

n/t

[MineralMan]

10. It's a different issue entirely. Not all issues are related.

One event. One issue. Not related to the ones you mention. Basic logic.

[mountainlion55]

39. As a person who

is poor and has a chronic medical condition it definetly does not!:yoiks:

[TwilightGardener]

7. It really took massive cojones on a lot of people's parts--mostly the forces

who went in, of course, but Obama could have just pulled a GWB and alternated for years between shaking his fist at OBL and claiming disinterest. I don't know that anyone really anticipated OBL's kill, anymore.

[JohnnyRingo]

8. This is true.

Success has a million friends while failure suffers a lonely demise.

While Obama rightly shares the success with everyone responsible, had it gone horribly wrong the blame would have been squarely on the Oval Office. I'm not saying that right or wrong, it's just the way it is.

[pintobean]

9. If

a bullfrog had wings
it wouldn't bump its ass

[blondeatlast]

16. +1. nt

[JackRiddler]

11. Yeah, like what if the refrigerator was broken?

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

12. This is a really good point. Hadn't considered what it would look like if it had failed.

But you're right, as much as the right is trying desperately to deny Obama credit, there's no doubt failure would have fallen squarely on his shoulders and possibly had a major impact on the 2012 race.

[flamingdem]

13. This is why they had to keep it so secret, there are plenty out there who would wreck the mission nt

[calimary]

18. That alone is impressive - that they were able to keep it secret.

Guaranteed there would have been people trying to thwart it. Think how often bin Laden was near danger and was able to get away. Think how many people had a stake in seeing him survive and thrive. And a few of them might have been "on our side."

[TNLib]

17. Excellent Military Leadership Every repuke should be praising him!!

Isn't this what republicans like National Security, getting the bad guys ect... instead of singing his praises they are just spout off more nonsense.

This mission exemplified superb leadership from the top down. And every American that wanted Bin Laden should be praising Military leadership from the top down.

[EC]

19. Consider,

it was a secret op, no one would have heard about it, if it failed.

[leftstreet]

20. No kidding. Failed secret ops don't exactly make the news n/t

[Jackpine Radical]

22. A couple more helicopter crashes,

an exceptionally high casualty day. Nothing anybody would remember a month later.

That said, I do think Obama is playing this masterfully, handing out fig leaves to the Pakistanis, etc. If he wants it, this is his door out of Afghanistan. If he pulls out now, it will be as a conquering hero (while the islamists of various stripes also get to back down a little, having driven the hated westerners out of Afghanistan). Everybody saves face, and suddenly our budget is balanced.

[VWolf]

23. Oh, would that this were the case!

Man, that would be the ideal outcome, wouldn't it?

Sadly, I'm not as optimistic as I used to be.

[WilliamPitt]

26. If a bunch of SEALS got taken during a raid

I think we'd hear about it.

[Jumping John]

30. I have talked to military people who have said that if a seal is killed in a raid - it will not

be made public. Have you ever seen any reports of SEAL members killed during an action?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=X_y-TfaACYGXtwfJy7DaBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CBoQvwUoAQ&q=seal+casualty+list&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=38664e7e8c090ddc

[WilliamPitt]

31. Be made public by whom?

The Pentagon wouldn't say anything, but lots of people in the world have cameras.

[Jumping John]

32. So have you ever seen any pictures of slain SEAL Team members taken by these people?

Would you care to post them?

[LanternWaste]

33. Roosevelt "botched" Anzio in '43, and was re-elected in '44.

Roosevelt "botched" Anzio in '43, and was re-elected in '44.

For my part, I tend to take each action, each act, and each president in and on their own merits rather than looking for an absolute (and usually spurious) correlation (because I've found there rarely are any in history)

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[AC_Mem]

37. I think it is his Destiny

There are certain souls on this earth in history, who are just destined to do great things against incredible odds. While he has not been perfect, he sure has been exceptional in many many ways in this lifetime. I think he has a guiding hand from up above.

Feeling proud to be American tonight, :)
Annette

[patricia92243]

38. This makes me more proud of the President than ever. He put what he thought was the right thing to

do ahead of petty political gain.

Hurrah for America that we have a President the cares for us more than he loves himself.