Details emerging of the burial at sea

[WilliamPitt]

Hours after he was killed in Pakistan in a firefight with U.S. Navy SEALs, bin Laden’s corpse was flown to Afghanistan to be identified through DNA analysis, then transported to an undisclosed location in the northern Arabian sea.

There, aboard the aircraft carrier USS Carl Vinson, the body of one of the world’s most feared leaders was washed in accordance with Islamic ritual and lowered into the watery depths.

Submerging the body at sea precluded the establishment of a gravesite shrine that could become a rallying point for bin Laden’s followers. It may have circumvented unseemly arguments over custody of his body or accusations of religious disrespect. The rapid disposal of bin Laden’s body also adhered to the Muslim tradition of burial within 24 hours of death.

A senior U.S. defense official said the rites lasted for about 50 minutes. Bin Laden’s body was washed, wrapped in a white sheet and then placed in a weighted bag. A military officer read “religious remarks,” which were translated into Arabic by a native speaker.

More at link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/bin-ladens-secret-sea-burial-adds-to-the-mystery-of-his-life/2011/05/02/AF4uEPZF_story.html?hpid=z3

[emulatorloo]

1. Thanks for posting n/t

[GomezLives]

2. Admit it - they basically flushed him down the toilet.

[Bladian]

3. Hang on a sec

...what?

[babylonsister]

6. No, he was handled respectfully in accordance with his religion. nt

[Bladian]

Yeah, definitely this

from what I understand. Which is, in my uninformed 18 year old opinion, the best thing that they could have done.

[icnorth]

71. Welcome Bladian and from my perspective

you are wise beyond your years.

[krabigirl]

15. if we cared so much about his religion, why would we be slaughtering innocent Muslims?

[Rebubula]

40. If Osama Bin Laden...

...care so much about HIS religion, why did he continue to advocate that the young, uneducated men kill themselves in suicide missions? Why did he advocate the beating, maiming and killing of women that did not follow the orders of his religion?

I find your post insincere and almost certainly naive.

[Ikonoklast]

60. Why, indeed, did Osama bin Laden kill many of his co-religionists?

Seems he had no moral compunctions slaughtering Muslims, none whatsoever.

[H2O Man]

20. oh deer

[Vanje]

23. no.

[tallahasseedem]

37. Good.

Your sympathy is noted.

[Cleita]

4. It also insured that no forensic team or wikileaks could

exhume the body at a later date and find out some facts that might expose things they don't want us to know, like that he died years ago.

[Kolesar]

9. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

:rofl:

[WilliamPitt]

10. (somuchfacepalm)

[SidDithers]

17. OMFG...

Sid

[uppityperson]

45. That is a wonderful picture. thank you. eom

[TheWraith]

22. God, the tin-foil bullshit is getting thick around here. nt

[smirkymonkey]

49. Wait, what is so tinfoil about considering the possibility that he may

have already been dead. During the Bush administration, people were all over this board saying the reason GWB couldn't get OBL was because he was already dead. Now, when someone mentions that he MIGHT have died years ago - having a well-known kidney condition - they are suddenly labeled a conspiricy theorist or tin-foil hatter.

It's not that far fetched to think that it's possible that our lying, cheating, stealing government might be pulling a fast one on us. Particularly when there is no concrete proof. Not for any of us.

[11 Bravo]

53. Batshit crazy ain't restricted exclusively to Freeperville. There were people on this board ...

who did claim during the Bush years that Osama was being kept on ice, but their numbers were few. They accounted for a shit load of posts, but there weren't that many of them.

[smirkymonkey]

57. First of all, I think you are throwing around the term "batshit crazy"

a bit liberally - it's not crazy to have a difference of opinion, especially since you weren't there and have no concrete proof. Also, we must remember things differently during the Bush years, because as I remember it, the dominant opinion was that OBL couldn't possibly be alive due to his kidney condition and "running from cave to cave".

[JuniperLea]

67. It's batshit crazy to think Bush wouldn't have paraded his head on a pike...

Or at least his whole body in a "leaked" cell phone video. Bush would have loved to get his codepiece around this one!

It flat didn't happen.

[TheWraith]

74. So he was a zombie yesterday when they shot him?

President Obama is lying to the world? There's a giant conspiracy on to suddenly "kill" Osama NOW?

Yes, that is tin foil hat conspiracy idiocy.

[smirkymonkey]

81. He could have been a zombie.

Seriously, Obama, himself, did not kill Bin Ladin. There is no guarantee that he knows the truth either (and don't tell me those who take orders from the Pentagon never lie). I am just saying that I have no proof that was even still alive and have so far seen no concrete evidence of his death.

So I'm not saying that I believe or disbelieve the official story, but given our government's record, it's become second nature to pretty much question everything I hear.

[TheWraith]

84. So they faked the LIVE VIDEO that the entire National Security Council watched?

The live feed from the Navy Seal's helmet camera?

Seriously, to believe that events were not more or less as advertised, you have to discount an enormous amount of facts.

[smirkymonkey]

85. I didn't know about the live video. Will have to watch the news

when I get home from work. Didn't find out about it until this morning.

[Blue-Jay]

25. Wikileaks is well-known for physically digging up dead people.

[gkhouston]

65. No, no, that's SquickiLeaks. And you don't want to know what they do with the corpses. n/t

[TwilightGardener]

27. Man, Wikileaks is just the be-all end-all for some people.

[EFerrari]

29. Well, that may be because Wikileaks has never published a lie yet

unlike the Pentagon.

[TwilightGardener]

31. Maybe the crack Wiki Dive Team will take this case.

[EFerrari]

33. We'll get it all, eventually.

:)

[girl gone mad]

28. Surely the organization behind the fairy tales about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman..

would never lie, distort, exaggerate or embellish.

[tallahasseedem]

36. You know what?

You're worse than Trump.

[Solomon]

39. Geez what happened? I used to really respect your posts.

[Cleita]

82. Well, my husband was on dialysis at the same

time bin Laden was running around in caves. He died six years ago with the best of care in the most sterile of environments where getting an infection that can kill you is really easy. So you can see why I'm skeptical that bin Laden was able to survive under the conditions he was living in.

[Gold Metal Flake]

46. Yes, Wikileaks and Acorn.

They will use one of George Soro's boats. Anonymous will spring for gas money.

[frogmarch]

58. or that he'd never really existed at all!

LOL

[JuniperLea]

63. BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

Oh dear, dear Lord... please... please... please... make it stop! My sides can't take any more!

[cottonseed]

69. Wait, so Obama went to Pakistan years ago, killed Obama, stuffed him in a freezer

all without the Bush Administration knowing any of this mind you, and then, just when the heat was on, they staged this killing?

[icnorth]

75. Did this happen before or after

he sneaked into Hawaii under the cover of darkness and inserted his long form birth certificate into State records?

[cottonseed]

77. They made the trip to Hawaii together. Bin Laden was going to rat him out...

That's when Obama went into a rage and took him out.

[cottonseed]

70. The Internet: where the inmates give the State of the Asylum speech.

[leftstreet]

5. Cultural sensitivity following an extra judicial assassination is always good

silver lining

[Ganja Ninja]

7. I'm surprised they didn't launch him off the catapult. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

50. That would have been cool!

They could have put a holdback fitting in his ass and launched him!

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. Thanks for this report, my dear Will...

It is my opinion that his burial was done the best way possible.

[Kolesar]

11. It's all superstition and mysticism, anyway

They should be glad his corpse didn't get "Mussolinied"

"But while Muslim leaders in the U.S. were largely accepting of the way the government disposed of the body, Muslim clerics abroad have been highly critical."

I'm happy with it. AMF!!!

[deaniac21]

12. " lowered into the watery depths"

More like dropped like a bomb from 60 feet up.

[Scuba]

13. Reports are the ship nearly capsized when...

...all of the sailors went to that side to pee following the release of the body.

[Love Bug]

14. Better than he deserved and more than he gave others

eom

[damntexdem]

26. Just a little extra blessing with holy "water."

But just think of some poor shark who might have taken a bite of the cadaver. ;-)

[Ikonoklast]

62. Never happen.

Sharks would show professional courtesy.

[Zorra]

16. Smart. thanks. nt

[loudsue]

18. There's no way they've already disposed of the body.

Not a chance in hell.

[JuniperLea]

64. LOL!

Yeah, because all of that takes so long... hahahaha!

Oh, it just keeps getting better~

[JackRiddler]

73. Also possible.

[krabigirl]

19. ugh..yeah they really care about respecting religion when they kill innocent Muslim civilians.

Why should they show respect for his religion? he didn't deserve that...sorry, the whole thing with the sea burial is weird.

[Kolesar]

21. Yeah, we could have wrapped him in a pig's skin...eom

[chowder66]

44. Not weird at all.

One: it keeps his followers from creating a graveside shrine and Two: showing some type of respect is good for relations with moderates.

There is no need to inflame the extremists even further.

[DearAbby]

83. No grave, no shrine

to honor a martyr. The Sea was the best place. And with the reprisals of burning a Quran, respectfully disposing of the body was the least we could do. Job Done, main point.

[EFerrari]

24. Has anyone figured out yet if this is consistent with

the Geneva Conventions or not?

If the rationale for his execution is a state of war, I assume the administration would also handle his corpse by that playbook?

[RC]

42. Geneva Conventions? Didn't that get rather quaint during bu$h the lesser's term?

[EFerrari]

48. Yes, I know. I live in the past.

:)

[Xithras]

43. Yes, completely.

Article II of the 1949 Conventions authorizes burial at sea. The requirements are simply that it must be done "respectfully", individually (no mass body dumping), and that the body must be examined and well documented first to assure identity.

[EFerrari]

47. Can you show me? Because I didn't find that.

When I read 2, it stresses the ability to find the dead after hostilities are ended. It makes no provision for taking someone deceased on land and dumping them into the ocean because no other country will take them.

And I'm not being snarky, I literally don't see it, so if you do, I'd be grateful if you could point the passage out to me.

[Xithras]

80. Sorry, I cited it wrong. Here you go:

Convention (II) for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea. Geneva, 12 August 1949.

Chapter II : Wounded, sick and shipwrecked

Article 20

Parties to the conflict shall ensure that burial at sea of the dead, carried out individually as far as circumstances permit, is preceded by a careful examination, if possible by a medical examination, of the bodies, with a view to confirming death, establishing identity and enabling a report to be made. Where a double identity disc is used, one half of the disc should remain on the body.
If dead persons are landed, the provisions of the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field of August 12, 1949, shall be applicable.

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/COM/370-580024?OpenDocument


The only real murkiness lays in that last sentence. Technically, if the body was taken back to land, they would have been required to bury it. Because the body was taken to sea, they didn't have to. It's certainly a loophole, but what they did is entirely legal under international law.

[EFerrari]

87. I wonder. This article is about burial at sea.

It doesn't say that those who died on land may be taken out to sea for the purposes of obscuring their resting place.

And given the Article 17 emphasis on identifying the resting place, it looks like a stretch to me to say that what was done to bin Laden's carcass is entirely legal.

Thanks for the passage.

[EFerrari]

61. This is the text of Article 17. The word "sea" doesn't even appear.

Am I reading in the wrong place?

Article 17

Parties to the conflict shall ensure that burial or cremation of the dead, carried out individually as far as circumstances permit, is preceded by a careful examination, if possible by a medical examination, of the bodies, with a view to confirming death, establishing identity and enabling a report to be made. One half of the double identity disc, or the identity disc itself if it is a single disc, should remain on the body.

Bodies shall not be cremated except for imperative reasons of hygiene or for motives based on the religion of the deceased. In case of cremation, the circumstances and reasons for cremation shall be stated in detail in the death certificate or on the authenticated list of the dead.

They shall further ensure that the dead are honourably interred, if possible according to the rites of the religion to which they belonged, that their graves are respected, grouped if possible according to the nationality of the deceased, properly maintained and marked so that they may always be found. For this purpose, they shall organize at the commencement of hostilities an Official Graves Registration Service, to allow subsequent exhumations and to ensure the identification of bodies, whatever the site of the graves, and the possible transportation to the home country. These provisions shall likewise apply to the ashes, which shall be kept by the Graves Registration Service until proper disposal thereof in accordance with the wishes of the home country.

As soon as circumstances permit, and at latest at the end of hostilities, these Services shall exchange, through the Information Bureau mentioned in the second paragraph of Article 16, lists showing the exact location and markings of the graves, together with particulars of the dead interred therein.

[yawnmaster]

78. Did OBL accept and apply the provisions of the Geneva Convention?

If not, it really doesn't apply to him (unless there is a Power in which we are in conflict of which he is a part and which also accepts and applies the provisions of the Convention).

[EFerrari]

88. So, in your opinion, we should behave like terrorists?

[yawnmaster]

92. the question was, was it consistent with the Geneva Conventions, the answer is yes...

this has nothing to do with my opinion.

[AnneD]

30. And in other news....

Generalissamo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Trust but verify. It is the Native American in me-I trust no government except tribal elders maybe.

[smirkymonkey]

52. I thought I was going insane - I am amazed at how many people

on this board are taking this at face value without any other proof than the trustful :puke: word of our sacred government.

[AnneD]

89. I am a trust but verify kinda gal.....

I didn't believe the bull shit about Iraq and Saddem Hussain being Al Quida, I didn't believe them killing babies in Quwait, I am skeptical about the new government in Egypt being truly of the people and not unduly influenced by US plants, I don't think Bradley Manning stole those secrets and the list goes on and on.

My great great grandfather always was fond of saying "Do not believe anything you hear and half of what you see." The older I get, the more I think he was one of the wisest men around.

[riderinthestorm]

32. With words, it's possible to "dress up" anything... for instance

Osama's body being "washed" may mean they took a hose to it. There. Done. He's washed.

"Wrapped in a white sheet"? Clean or dirty I ask.

"weighted bag"? Oh man, I'd love to know what they put in that bag with that body.

"Religious remarks"? Probably means they said "Jayzus fucking Christ, he's dead, praise gawd. Now kick this shithead out the door."



But then again, I have a twisted mind.... They probably did do a respectful job. Anyone in the military on DU ever "capture or kill" a high level target that had perpetrated so much evil? It's hard to imagine those soldiers being that respectful. Possible, but hard to imagine.

[jus_the_facts]

34. Just because a Democrat presides over this episode doesn't stop me from questioning it's validity.

...this never would have been accepted without question as it has here back in the Bush era....not for a second.

[Auntie Bush]

55. Is that you Donald?

:evilgrin:

[smirkymonkey]

56. Thank You! The very same people who swore up and down

that he was already dead during the Bush Administration and that Obama was a traitor to the Democratic Party are now infused with a new undying loyalty to the government.

[jus_the_facts]

59. You're welcome.... can't help but see it all through un-rose colored glasses.... 20/20

:hi:

[cottonseed]

72. I'm sure if one of the Greys were president you'd still question it's validity.

[Politicalboi]

35. Should have made him feel more at home

They should have dumped him in the Gulf of Texaco

[GeorgeGist]

38. Americans do LOVE teh ...

bullshit.

[Evoman]

41. Meh...makes it easier to piss on his grave.

[Zanzoobar]

51. Dang. I was just getting ready to eat seafood again.

[mmonk]

54. Thanks for posting.

[LLStarks]

66. Osama bin Laden didn't deserve such respectful treatment even if it looks good internationally. nt

[SmileyRose]

86. His body deserves respect because that's who we are.

I remember a line from a John Wayne movie where Wayne's character promised the bad guy "a fair trial, and decent hangin' and a respectful burial". In the end Wayne shot the crap out of him then buried him.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Green Manalishi]

76. Damn. We couldn't find some pigs to feed him to?

[WCGreen]

79. I thought they had to bury the dead within 24 hours....

[Raine]

90. His body treated with the kind of respect he never gave to his victims. nt

[FreeJoe]

91. Rather than "buried at sea"

I prefer the phrase "fed to the fishes".