Who killed more innocent people - George W. Bush or Osama Bin Laden?

[Nostradammit]

Curious to know what you think. We'll never really know for sure
but my money's on Bush.

I'm gonna save my celebrating for a little while longer.

[Hannah Bell]

1. bush by a mile.

[ixion]

5. Exactly.

[quinnox]

2. no contest

The Iraq war killed tens of thousands of civilians, maybe hundreds of thousands. Bush by a country mile.

[coalition_unwilling]

36. Johns Hopkins U. and the British medical journal The Lancet most

recently estimated (using advanced demographic sampling techniques) that 1,000,000+ Iraqi civilians had died prematurely as a result of the violence of the Iraq War. Bush and his Junta thus come close to rivalling LBJ and Henry Kissinger in terms of pure body count. Given Bush's numbers, OBL's are a mere asterisk.

Incidentally, when you combine all Iraqi civilians killed, wounded or displaced either internally or externally as a result of the Iraq War, you arrive at a figure of some 7 million. Given Iraq's pre-war population of some 30 million, that translates to roughly 25% of Iraq's population having been adversely affected.

Take that percentage and overlay it on the United States were positions reversed and you'd be looking at a figure of some 50-60 million Americans killed, wounded and\or displaced.

Edited for grammar and usage.

[Nostradammit]

39. It occurs to me I could have asked, "Who killed the most innocent Americans?"

and it would still be Bush, as I'm sure the majority of our casualties in Iraq
never enlisted with the knowledge that they'd be used in an illegal and ill-advised
war for profit.

[coalition_unwilling]

44. True and please don't forget Katrina. OK, one can argue that

Bush in Katrina committed a sin of omission, rather than a sin of commission. But I still hold Bush and the Bush Junta responsible for many of the fatalities from Katrina.

Edited for crazy typos.

[Poll_Blind]

3. Bush and I'd love to see someone try to make a reasonable argument otherwise.

PB

[indepat]

49. I just wish all piety about our righteousness in bringing a terrorist to

justice would be stowed at least until we bring homegrown terrorists to justice and commence observing international law, conventions, and assorted other niceties. :patriot:

[EFerrari]

4. Are you kidding?

Bush got nearly a million Iraqis killed alone.

We used to say here that if Bin Laden tried hard every day of his life, he wouldn't be able to catch up to Bush.

[Texasgal]

13. American lives are no more special

than Iraqis lives?

[EFerrari]

19. To whom?

[tekisui]

28. Of course not. A life is a life.

[sibelian]

51. Errrr... could I ask you to clarify your position?

[IamK]

6. Obama and his friend the predator is making a mid term comback...

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[Drale]

7. Bush but

Bush had far more recourses to do his evil with. If Bin Laden had those recourses millions would have died.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[ZombieHorde]

10. I don't know if either of them killed anyone.

Perhaps this is a matter of semantics, but creating the conditions for other people to kill seems a little different, and perhaps a little darker, than actually killing.

To me, saying they killed people may lessen their actual actions and roles.

[Nostradammit]

12. Would "who had more people killed?" be better?

I think it is only semantics, the root of the equation remains.

[ZombieHorde]

17. Tough call. I don't know if GWB could have sold the US on the two wars without OBL's actions.

Hard to say.

[Nostradammit]

21. Yes, Osama certainly was helpful to the Bush family.

[ZombieHorde]

22. Extremely helpful. Osama made GWB's presidency. nt

[patrice]

11. Are we REALLY going to just pretend that what we did to Iraq had somekind of meaning? Dead OBL

really contrasts sharply with the Invasion & Occupation of Iraq. Think of what that means to our soldiers!!!!!!!!!!!

[Terra Alta]

14. Obviously Bush.

Osama didn't even come close. Also, Dumbya is just as responsible for 9/11 as Osama, since he did nothing after getting the August 6 PDB. However, I'm not going to hold my breath waiting to see Dumbya brought to justice.

[RKP5637]

15. Bush. n/t

[diane in sf]

16. Bush, 1000s of US military, aprox. a million Iraqis, 1000s of medical and poverty deaths in the US

[distantearlywarning]

18. Bush. But....

...imagine what Osama would have done if he were the President of the United States.

[TheKentuckian]

20. Bush, by orders of magnitude.

Bush will be killing people for years and he is now a mainstream to moderate TeaPubliKlan.

[Jokerman]

23. Not only that, but Bush has created many, many more future terrorists.

That's the thing about OBL, if he didn't exist, the military would have to create him...

[RainDog]

24. that's really not what this is about

I agree that Bush most likely killed more people and did more harm to the American people, with his horrific policy decisions, than bin Laden.

but the reality is that Americans have friends and relatives of friends and relatives who died on 9-11 and people who lived through a terrifying time.

and that is the moment that relates to this one - not Bush's actions after the fact.

it's possible to hold that neither of them did the right thing and still be glad that Osama is gone. It's not a choice of one or the other.

[Nostradammit]

27. Agreed it's not a choice of one or the other -

But the realization should temper our celebration and our chants
of "USA! USA! USA!" don't you think?

Anybody know if we're planning a similar raid on Crawford?
I think Bush's actions BEFORE the fact reveal the need for
such a thing.

[Terra Alta]

30. I'm enjoying this moment

and I'm glad Osama is dead, but I want Bush to receive justice, too. I'm sure the family and friends of those killed in Iraq(both innocent Iraqis and American soldiers) feel the same way.

[sabrina 1]

25. Bush, and the killings continue.

Not to mention all those killed during the Clinton administration in Iraq, over half a million children as a result of the sanctions.

And the over 300,000 killed in the first Gulf War.

Over a million during the Bush administration. We are a very effective killing machine and we wonder why they hate us.

Now, can the killing stop does anyone think??

[Bo]

26. IRAQnam MAKES 911 LOOK LIKE A WARM UP

I have heard civilian estimates of upwards of 250k

[HCE SuiGeneris]

29. Absolutely the correct perspective.

Good post.

[Nostradammit]

31. Thank you, though I've never been more sad to be correct.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

34. It is a sad statement of the predicament we are in.

However, I do believe that there are enough caring, intelligent and aware people to turn things around. Still endeavoring to find the gel that will pull us together to elicit that change...

Be well, Nostradammit.

[Nostradammit]

41. I'm glad you are here and I agree with your prognosis.

[David__77]

33. Well, Bush, but what's your point?

Is it that Bush is "worse?"

[Nostradammit]

37. The point is that we, as a country, have no room to celebrate

until we deal with the terrorists within our own borders.

[distantearlywarning]

40. I hate this argument every time I see it - about any topic.

Unfortunately, there's room for more than one evil bastard in the world.

Osama's evil doesn't excuse Bush. Bush's evil doesn't excuse Osama. I'm happy to criticize both of them. At the same time even. If Bush falls into the sea, I can be happy about that without ignoring the fact that Osama exists. If Osama gets shot into little pieces, I can be happy about that too, without ignoring the fact that Bush exists. I'm complicated that way. Maybe I'm just a good multi-tasker or something.

Also: I don't self-identify as "we as a country". I didn't vote for him, I've criticized him since Abu Ghraib and I don't take one single iota of personal responsibility for his actions. The rest of the "we as a country" out there can remain mute on any and every other evil in the entire world so long as George W. Bush still draws breath, out of some misplaced self-flagellation (or whatever drives the thought process you describe), but since I'm just "Distant Early Warning" who didn't vote for the asshat I feel free to note and point fingers at any evil bastard I want to, anywhere on this planet.

[Nostradammit]

43. Do you hate it when hypocrisy is pointed out?

[distantearlywarning]

47. Doesn't seem like hypocrisy to me.

I've never excused Bush's actions. :shrug:

[Nostradammit]

48. I wasn't singling you out, though you seem to have taken it that way.

We, collectively, do bear some responsibility for our country.

I'm not happy about it, either.

[Yavin4]

46. +1

"Bush's evil doesn't excuse Osama."

Exactly.

[orpupilofnature57]

45. No, just no better, and thats worse enough.

[Luminous Animal]

35. Bill Clinton. 500,000 dead children in Iraq.

[coalition_unwilling]

38. Oh yeah. I forgot about the effect sanctions had on Iraq. I still

think Bush has Clinton beat by a couple orders of magnitude (based on John Hopkins U. and The Lancet), but our cruelty towards Iraq was definitely bipartisan.

Thanks for posting this. It needed to be said, I think.

[orpupilofnature57]

42. Shrub!!! hands down , Gov. Bush of Texas,, or do you mean when he..

was working for Cheney?

[ensho]

50. george/neo cons killed way more

they will never get the blood off their hands

[reggie the dog]

52. W

[Vincardog]

53. When you say Bush are you including the whole BCF? If so Bush killed more that all terrorists combin

[hifiguy]

54. Chimpoleon (and DicKKK) hands down

Conservatively estimating that there were around 500,000 Iraqis killed in their phony war.

UBL is a pimple on their collective ass in terms of dealing out mass death.