Just remember this for 2012 elections - 'Swiftboating'

[LynneSin]

John Kerry was a decorated Vietnam hero and yet these slimeballs still managed to find a way to rip Kerry's decorated military career to shreds.

I suspect they are already building their 'swiftboating' case for Obama and his capture of OBL.

[msanthrope]

1. We will be ready this time. And we should note carefully the posters

who share the concerns of those who swiftboat......

[Skidmore]

5. Yes, indeed.

[msanthrope]

7. Posters who echo the concern of the Obama/Osama swiftboaters?

Absolutely.

[LynneSin]

15. are you saying I'm trying to swiftboat this incident?

I'm just warning that the people who helped smeared Kerry are still out there. Another poster mentioned what's going on - the people against Obama are already tossing alot of misinformation out there about the whol OBL incident. Probably seeing what sticks and what they can build.

Our smartest defense is to recognize that the right wing will try to swiftboat so we can counter their attacks right away instead of letting them build to some festering mess like what happened with Kerry.

[MH1]

43. I don't think the poster is referring to you

:)

just that there are a few on this site who will pitch the swiftboating line in their slimy ways whenever opportunities arise.

[Bobbie Jo]

25. +1000

Believe It.

[Richardo]

2. Even more of a cautionary tale: GHWBush, with soaring polls post-Iraq war -

...loses in 1992 on domestic economic issues.

Nothing's in the bag.

[Ishoutandscream2]

11. +infinity

It ain't over until it's over.

[cbdo2007]

28. Most people didn't understand the first Iraq war. Everyone can relate to 9/11

You can't really compare the two.

[Richardo]

30. I'm not.

[cbdo2007]

31. You done did!!!

[Richardo]

37. Right.

[TransitJohn]

3. Obama's team is much more capable than Kerry's was.

I still can't believe we ran Kerry instead of Dr. Dean that time around. :banghead:

[demwing]

8. Dean was my choice, but Kerry would have made a fine President

and he actually won, despite the swiftboating.

Hard to beat a cheat, when the refs have bet against you.

[BlueCaliDem]

10. Exactly. Kerry had won. I'll never forget Ohio, and how Blackwell rigged the place to favor Bush.

I'm still wondering if they've gotten rid of those flimsy voting machines by now. Now that there's that Fixed News talking head as Governor there, I'm pretty sure they're going to try and put those machines to good use in the 2012 presidential elections.

[politicasista]

33. delete n/t

[karynnj]

20. Obama had Kerry on his team - and many people who were on the Kerry team

In addition, Obama - using what happened to Kerry, with Kerry as the one to make the case that it was right, opted out of public financing. He had the money that Kerry did not in 2004.

In addition, Obama was running at a point when the country was finally sick of Republicans and Bush was below 30% - and McCain's gamble with Palin failed.

I like Dean, but Kerry was by far a stronger candidate. He would have won had there been enough machines in Ohio - in spite of the media and the most unlevel playing field I ever saw.

[politicasista]

32. They don't care, as long as they slam Kerry to praise Obama, it's all good

Shame on Cahill and Shrum for allowing a good Democrat in Senator Kerry to be the unofficial poster man for not "fighting back."

[karynnj]

35. Shrum defended Kerry - speaking of how hard and well he campaigned and his many positives

Cahill took a nearly dead primary campaign and ran a flawless primary campaign. Neither of them deserve the attack.


What some forget is that one BIG MOUTH complaining that Kerry should NOT speak of Vietnam at all was Carville, who was beyond useless in 2004. He and Begala used their air time to bash Bush - speaking only to those who already hated Bush AND moaned that Kerry was not like Bill Clinton. (True, and I bet that his mother and wife were both very grateful that he wasn't. ) Possibly if they had bothered to look at who Kerry actually was they might have been able to productively use one of the small number of time slots available for Democrats. Their book afterward showed they were both conceited, unself aware jerks.

Just remember it was the Clinton people, with help from the Edwards people who fostered the "not fighting back" after the loss. The fact is that no one would be saying that had Kerry won - and he made it very close. (Edwards was the creepiest - manufacturing a story that he wanted to contest - when he actually did not mention it until it was useful on the left - and then he spoke of it only in the blogosphere. ) This was all because Kerry would not quietly return to the Senate returning all leadership of the party to the Clintons.

[politicasista]

36. Haven't forgotten about the role of Carville, etc,

but they all created the perception that Kerry did nothing when it mattered most. A perception he has to live with for the rest of his political career.

No one isn't talking about what Kerry is doing, or has done in the Senate or what he is doing with or did for Obama.

The only thing they talk about and remember that he didn't "fight back" and reinforced the GOP that Democrats were "weak on defense". A meme that Obama has now defeated.

Obama is being held up as the Democrat who knows how to do it right from campaigning, running a top notch campaign to taking the high road at the right time. He has raised the bar for his fellow Democrats and things that he has accomplished so far.

Some have come after me for being clueless about things, but I won't forget your last paragraph (and it may fall on deaf ears here), but this is JMO.

[karynnj]

40. Plenty of people are speaking of what Kerry is doing

It may not be your family or your friends, but it is the people who count at this point. Those people are the 99 other Senators, foreign leaders, and the administration. Even the DC political media gave him enormous praise for the competent, graceful way he led the effort to get the START treaty passed. Even though the climate change legislation did not pass, there was enormous praise from both sides of the aisle for his brilliance, his work ethic, his passion and his selflessness. Lindsey Graham and others were blown away that Kerry were pull T Bone Pickens in because it helped the plan and helped the likelihood it could pass. The ONLY other people Kerry need impress are the voters of MA.

Kerry's family, friends and supporters - many from as many as 45 years ago had a celebration for him in Boston last year. I can tell you - and the other DU JK people there will back me up - that NO ONE thought or said anything about not fighting back. There was huge praise for a fantastic (and ongoing) career. The fact is that had Kerry quietly lived his live after 1971, he would still have done more than any of the snark prone clowns in the media for history - because it called America to a higher moral ground on foreign policy and helped toward ending Vietnam. Winning the Presidency would have capped a remarkable career - all done against powerful forces, that knew what they were dealing with as early as 1971. You seem to forget that without Kerry, it is highly unlikely that Obama would be President now. Assume Dean, Gephardt or Edwards got the nomination - it is highly unlikely that Obama would have gotten the speech. Kerry himself picked Obama, having seen him at the advise of Kerry's Illinois fundraiser, now the ambassador to the UK. Not to mention, 2004 would have been a FAR worse loss with any of them and it would have been harder to bounce back in 2006 - something Kerry helped with.

The fact is that as a leader and as a person, John Kerry is not defined by those smears - he is defined by the man he is and the accomplishments - even if his name is not on them - that he has made. He knows who he is - and has the love and respect of the people who are closest to him. It is really amazing to have seen people who knew him since college and who after all that time have incredible respect and love for him. One group who surprised Kerry at that party were his crew - and what was clear to all of us was the intense bond between them. They had trusted Kerry with their lives when they were young and he is very clearly their hero. Very few people have that.

As to Kerry contributing to the Democrats being "weak on defense", you completely missed that in 2006, even conservatives like George Will admitted that Kerry had been right as to how to deal with non-state terrorism. That helped COUNTER the view that Democrats were weak on defense. Not to mention, where did Obama's campaign strategy on defense and foreign policy come from - the key spokesperson, who was more specific than Obama himself, was Kerry. (His Iraq plan was Kerry/Feingold with a slightly longer time line.)

Not to mention, if ANY Democrat had worked as hard and well as a surrogate for Kerry, as Kerry did for Obama - he might have won in spite of everything.

Elections are not all equally easy. The fact is that a Democrat beating Bush, who was at 60% approval in December 2003 was a longshot. Throw in that the media, the powers that be, and the Catholic Church, due JUST to the certain replacement of Rehnquist, who was pro-life. The fact is that I doubt Obama, running his 2008 campaign could have won in 2004 - charismatic as he was.

Frankly, I do not care if you can't get pass Kerry losing - and then internalizing every negative cliche that is put out about Kerry - then backing away when challenged - but it gets very tiring.

Especially your need to constantly say that Obama was better. Obama did win the presidency and is doing a wonderful job in extremely difficult times. He will likely be seen - and should be - as one of the greatest Presidents. You do not need to constantly use him to bash (yes bash) Kerry - it is pretty silly as Kerry gave everything he had in 2004 AND in 2008 for a victory.

To say Kerry contributed to the idea that Democrats were weak on defense is asinine and insulting. One reason he came close to winning in 2004 - when security and defense were the issue is that he was seen as strong and knowledgeable on defense and foreign policy. Obama did not win 2008 because he somehow was seen as stronger on defense than Kerry had in 2004 - the issues had changed.

[politicasista]

44. It's ok. No one understands where I sit

I have gotten sorta dumped on by both sides (some Kerry/Obama supporters) for saying sweeping sarcastic statements. That's fine, after seven years my political blogging days are almost over.

That being said, everything was just an observation from being in and out of DU. It wasn't intended to dis anyone, not Senator Kerry or President Obama, just how things are perceived and feel somewhat the need to vent.

To answer your question, it would have been impossible for anyone to win in 2004, and have not forgotten what Kerry did for Obama or Democrats in 2006 and 2008 (though some may have, but their loss), and never, ever thought he was/is weak, but there are people here that blamed him for that. Saw the thread in the DUK group about the gathering in Boston, that was nice. And saw him on Andrea Mitchell yesterday, he was good.

Anyway, I no longer have a dog and cat in the fight of MA media/MA politics, will let the good people of MA and DUK handle those issues. TN is messy as it is with teachers now losing their CBA rights, anti-immigration legislation, Tea Party, etc. Like any non political junkie, I will be watching from the sidelines now and wish both Kerry and Obama nothing but the best. They and DU don't need me anymore.

Excellent post as always. You are one of the best on DU. Peace.

[rurallib]

4. they seem to be throwing a lot of shit at the wall on the internet

I assume this is their attempt to see which of their invented stories will seem to gather some traction.
Boy, there is a job to be proud of - BS story creation for the RW.

[soleft]

6. There's already something going around Facebook

About how a few weeks ago Obama was deciding whether or not to pay the troops that took out Bin Laden.

[BlueCaliDem]

9. They've already begun. Corp. Media are marching Republicans out before the cameras

to ask about the incredible mission Pres. Obama had orchestrated. Keep putting their faces in front of the cameras and plant a seed in people's minds that Republicans are still better, more knowledgeable than Democrats when it comes to keeping us safe.

Haven't you noticed how we're treated to Republicans talking about the mission, again and again, since President Obama's strategy took out OBL? The Democrats are few and far between, but then again, Democrats can also be playing into that myth as the CorporateDems they are.

[RaleighNCDUer]

12. Technically, hauling away a dead body is not a 'capture'.

But yeah, they'll come up with something.

[pintobean]

13. I don't see how that could work

[Capitalocracy]

14. I think they're going to call for a war in Pakistan

(assuming we're not kind of already in one)

On Fox they've been talking about how much did Pakistan know, what should we do about Pakistan...

And maybe they'll use it against him if he doesn't start yet another war. At this point it's almost hard to see that sticking.

[Bandit]

16. What Rove is famous for is taking one's greatest strength and turning it inot a liability

He did the same with Gore. gore was considered the most honest man in Congress for years. His integrity was considered unquestionable, but Rove found a way and the next thing you know, Gore is a serial Liar...Invented the Internet, Love Canal, etc... Kerry's greatest strength was his Military experience. They sure turned that on him.. What is Obama's greatest strength? Expect that to be the main focus of their attacks...Obama's greatest strength IMO is being able to connect with the people. Sort of like Reagan, a great communicater..So expect that to be a focus of their attacks..

[demwing]

22. They tried once with Obama

His great strength is that he was the realization of the American dream. He offered hope.

Single mom, mixed heritage, humble origins, WORKED his way to success. He is the embodiment of "When you grow up, you can be anything you want"

Well, you can't live the American dream if you're not really American, so they tried to steal his citizenship. They failed.

My guess is that now they will try to steal our hope, and thats why they are attacking our safety nets with such abandonment.

Republicans want to kill hope.

I know that Obama takes some guff at DU for his promises of Hope and Change. Some of us don't think he delivered, some do.

But if this election goes as I fear, they will come for our hope, and Obama should call and raise.

Bring back the hope he brought to the first election, don't run away from it.

Getting rid of Bin Laden is a powerful step in that direction, don't you think?

[demwing]

17. The thing I'm worried about in 2012 is a repeat of 2004

but not the swiftboating.

I'm worried about the fraud. The Republicans have everything riding on the next election, they will absolutely have to double down now, or watch themselves get eaten from the left by conservadems, and from the right by Teahadists.

[LynneSin]

18. They do have more control of the governor seats

and that is :scared:

[jillan]

19. I'm thinking it should be the other way around - we should be swiftboating the repugs for being so

weak on defense.

[karynnj]

21. "swiftboating" is lying - and on a personal level

We can make a subjective charge that they are weak on defense - and we can back it up. That is not lying or even smearing - even if it is incorrect as long as everything said that is a fact is true.

[Hawkowl]

23. Kerry lost because of Ohio

Ohio was stolen and he failed to challenge the results. Just like Gore failed to challenge Florida in the Congress as provided for by the constitution. These weak, cowardly capitulations, more than anything else, have pushed our "democracy" to the point of nonexistence. If these two failed candidates would have simply stood up and followed the process of throwing the election into the Congress, we would not be where we are today.

[LynneSin]

29. That's true but it was a close race because of the doubts from swiftboating

Ohio was never a close race but I agree 100% with you - it was stolen.

But in order to steal a race you have to make sure it stays close enough to make it happen.

[EC]

24. Wasn't that supposed to be Corsi's new book

on Obama - well, Obama did that in by releasing his BC. So I wonder what else they'll come up with - the SSN that orily tates is pushing?

[Recursion]

26. Rovean politics 101: attack your enemy's strong points

So, yes, expect that. Expect yet another chain email about Obama wimping out and the SEAL team having to go it on their own despite his vacillation. Etc.

[guardian]

27. I don't think OBL's capture will affect the 2012 election at all

People will be focused on

* jobs/unemployment
* cost of gasoline
* cost of food

Everything else will be background noise.

[politicasista]

38. Hope so

:)

[lpbk2713]

34. If the Swifties had a regular meeting place ...

they probably had the GOP motto posted prominently on the wall ...


Repeat a lie often enough and loudly enough and sooner or later it becomes accepted as the truth

[wiggs]

39. They never stopped swiftboating anything that moves with a 'd' attached. This is

the purpose of the whole infrastructure of media consolidation, unlimited corporate campaign money, lobbying, coordinated gop messaging, polarization, and the use of Rovian low tactics.

Each year, the gop is further and further from responsible positions on policies...so, the need to lie, deceive, confuse, polarize, and misinform has, for them, only increased. It's not like they pull out swiftboating tactics once every 4 or 8 years...this stuff goes on each and every day and is getting more blatant and outrageous.

This is the point they envisioned 40 years ago...where they can convince 60% of republicans and about 30% of the voters of virtually ANYTHING. History, science, research, authoritative analysis DO NOT MATTER. This is what their billions and their tax breaks have bought them.

[Arugula Latte]

41. Very true. On the other hand, all their potential candidates suck like a black hole.

[jmowreader]

42. I don't think so

Things change but right now Obama has a huge advantage. Check out the campaign commercial that, if they have ANY clue, they'll run the shit out of...

Card: "The Republicans say they'll keep you safe from terrorists."

Footage: Bush saying "we're not all that concerned" about Osama bin Laden.

Card: "The Democrats do it."

Footage: the Navy throwing Osama bin Laden's carcass into the ocean.

On edit: Knowing Obama did what Bush could not, the Republicans' best opportunity in 2012 is not to try beating Obama, but instead to destroy Palin's political ambitions by running her against him. The first debate should be good: "You know, Sarah, it took me only two rounds to kill Osama--but it takes five for you to kill a caribou on national television."