Minnesota man kills stepdaughter in Michigan....She wasn't following Islam

[woo me with science]

http://www.startribune.com/local/121156314.html


Police: Minnesota man kills stepdaughter in Michigan over dispute she wasn't following Islam

WARREN, Mich. - Authorities say a Minnesota man killed his 20-year-old stepdaughter in Michigan because she left home and wasn't following Islam.

Forty-five-year-old Rahim Alfetlawi was being held Tuesday in the Macomb County Jail without bond after being charged with first-degree murder in the death Saturday of Jessica Mokdad at her grandmother's home in the Detroit suburb of Warren. He was arraigned Monday and awaits a May 12 preliminary examination.

Warren Police Detective Lt. Michael Torey says the Coon Rapids man went to police in neighboring Center Line to report the shooting. Torey says Alfetlawi told police the gun accidentally discharged when he pulled it out but police believe he intentionally shot her in the head.

Alfetlawi requested a court-appointed lawyer. A number listed for Alfetlawi in Minnesota wasn't in service.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[H2O Man]

2. ^

[Drale]

3. I hope this guy frys

Extremist religions are the most dangerous threat to democracy.

[Romulox]

4. No DP in Michigan. You'll have to hope the Feds take an interest. nt

[Drale]

6. Ok well at least rots in solitary confinement for the rest of his life.

[patrice]

9. Do you feel that way about wealthy churches who promote Civil War II against women's right

to choose certain reproductive services and, co-incidentally, also against the civil rights of America's LGBT communities?

[Drale]

11. So your saying this guy murdering another human

is free speech? Until those other organizations break the law or kill someone there is nothing that can be done. Free speech is a human right, and most of them will never ever do anything other then scream and cry about stuff they have no real power to stop.

[patrice]

27. I'm saying if someone is going to introduce bias into their topic, that should be recognized. nt

[William769]

14. I hope you have a pair of binoculars up there on that high horse. NT

[patrice]

19. You know? I wouldn't need those binoculars if OP would answer a direct & legitimate question.

When one posts to a public board, the implication is that questions are acceptable. If they are not, then OP should go to a private board.

[Warren DeMontague]

22. I feel that way about cartoon characters who try desperately to talk about anything

except the topic at hand.

[Rebubula]

43. OK...

...when they KILL people - they deserve the highest penalty.


Using words to pass legislation (no matter how offensive we find it) is freedom of speech and part of our legal system.

Killing your daughter - whole different ballgame.

[Last_Stand]

34. That, and corporations... n/t

[Blue Owl]

5. Another death chalked up to religious fanaticism

At some point, too much anything becomes a mental illness -- especially religion.

[Romulox]

7. I live in Dearborn, Michigan. There is a heady cultural stew, sometimes...

I remember an image from a few summers ago: a beautiful young girl, wearing a headscarf and a long-sleeved black top, cruising down Michigan avenue in her Chevy Cobalt. The back windows were soaped up with slogans celebrating her recent graduation, and her hand hung lazily out of the open window, cigarette dangling. The girl was BLASTING some sort of hard rock on the stereo and bellowing along.

At the moment, it just struck me as a cute slice of life in that moment--the tensions (and compromises) between new and old, and how, at their core, American teens are almost their own tribe, irrespective of their ethnicity.

It's horrible that these tensions sometime result in tragedies as in the above story. But I will also point out that these tensions can also result in a real evolution of the culture--not just of second, third, or greater generation immigrant communities, but of the larger community as well.

[woo me with science]

8. Interesting post.

I remember in the Twin Cities that there were stories from time to time in the news about the cultural growing pains in some Hmong and other southeast Asian communities. There were occasional stories of violence from the older generations, because they were horrified by the changes they saw in their children and grandchildren.

Your last paragraph is especially worth thinking about. Thanks.

[RainDog]

10. Marjan Satrapi's graphic novel, Persepolis

was also an interesting look into female lives within a repressive, patriarchal religious culture.

Religion can make people do weird, weird things.

Punk rock has been an important part of resistance in the muslim world for a while, it seems - just as in the USA.

[woo me with science]

12. That is a WONDERFUL graphic novel.

So are the follow-ups. Marjane Satrapi has done some marvelous work since then, too.

[RainDog]

13. the movie was great too

I like the work of L'association - also David B's novel, Epileptic.

[woo me with science]

15. I didn't see the movie.

I didn't even know there was one. I'm glad to hear they did it justice, which I imagine would be hard to do. Thank you for the other recommendations.

My teenage niece was fascinated by Persepolis. It got her interested in thinking about women's issues, both here and in other countries. It's a great introduction, because it is so personal. I never thought a graphic novel would bring tears to my eyes.

[RainDog]

16. I cried at the end of Maus

Maus II, in fact. If you've never read that one, you should - in order, both volumes, just as with Persepolis.

The Persepolis movie did some different things b/c of the possibility of animation. Satrapi was fully involved in the production - it's still her work. they do some great things with cut outs. My favorite part of the story was when she, as a little girl, thought god and karl marx looked a lot alike... lol.

If you've never read Joe Sacco's "graphics journalism" - he's another one worth checking out, esp. Safe Area Gorazde and Palestine.

[woo me with science]

18. Thank you VERY much.

I love hearing that she was involved. I couldn't imagine her handing the production over to someone else...It is so special. The early years are my favorite part of the series, too.

I've just updated my book shopping list. I am really glad you posted about this. :hi:

[RainDog]

25. my pleasure

I'm a book dealer trained as a librarian geek- I plan to post some things in the du marketplace - tho lots of things that I have are more for institutional and other collectors.

I rarely get beyond LBN or GD around here - but I've given talks about graphic novels to educators - the mixing of "high" and "low" culture is one of the most exciting artistic movements in the recent past, to me. Maus won a special Pultizer to sort of mark this transition.

Jimmy Corrigan is another great one to read.

...the printing press was an amazing invention... LOL.

[MedicalAdmin]

51. It was a great movie and very true to the original.

I saw the movie before I checked out the graphic novel to compare them. Great great great stuff.

[woo me with science]

59. I'm looking forward to it now.

Always nice to hear there is a jewel out there you haven't seen. :)

[Hannah Bell]

17. unrec

[patrice]

21. Thanks, OBL is gone now, so expect to see more of this stuff coming from people who are

apparently fighting for their jobs.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. See what stuff? Relgious whackjobs killing family members over crazy, imaginary bullshit?

That's depressing.

[patrice]

24. I don't disagree with that. OP could have come up with that story about Christians in order to creat

e that point. Instead, she made it relative to Muslims exclusively and THEN refused to defend the validity of HER point by establishing somehow (???) that the trait is exclusively Muslim.

[apocalypsehow]

26. That's not what she did in the slightest, and you well know it. Instead of trying to turn this

thread into a flamewar, why don't you either make a valid comment about it, or use the "Hide Thread" option?

[patrice]

32. Read the whole thread. And tell me what you don't understand about calling out bias, especially

from someone who purports to be an advocate of Science.

[apocalypsehow]

56. You're not "calling out bias" - there is no bias here. It is a new article. We discuss news articles

here on DU from time to time, in case you haven't heard.

Now, you are free to comment on the story or you are free to use the "Hide Thread" function if the facts contained in the article are not things you wish to read. But all you are doing now is breaking DU's rules by accusing another DU'er of bias without the slightest cause, and engaging in flame wars.

[patrice]

33. I refer you to my post #61.

[patrice]

35. All she had to do was come up with a story about Christians & there could have been no

legitimate criticism.

She chose not to do that. Why?

She either doesn't know what Science is or doesn't care.

[riderinthestorm]

46. Because there isn't another story where the father kills his daughter for leaving Christianity

Like I said upthread, I googled that and didn't find a single story within the first few pages.

I don't think its fair to criticize her for putting up an OP about this story since it's rare even in Islam and virtually unheard of with Christianity (no I did not do an exhaustive scientific search - I only did a cursory search for Christianity and did not check for Hindu fathers killing their daughters for leaving the religion, or Wiccans, or Buddhists etc.)

It feels as though you are trying to manufacture outrage over the perceived "bigotry" of the OP that's entirely misplaced.

[riderinthestorm]

37. +1. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

40. Oh, FFS. It's a news story. The OP didn't invent it.

So no one can post a story about any kind of religious-based violence unless it is balanced equally with another story about violence involving a different religion? How many thousands of religions are there- do they ALL have to be represented before we can talk about a news story?

Your point, if I can call it that, is absurd.

[sibelian]

28. Damn straight. CHA CHING no more.

[patrice]

31. Tks!

:hi:

[leftstreet]

44. +1

Indeed

[Warren DeMontague]

20. That's fucked up.

Seriously.

[PBS Poll-435]

29. A year or two back, there was a man in our community that killed his two daughters because they

Had become too "Westernized".

High School girls.

Pretty disgusting.

[Bragi]

42. Were they maybe too Californian?

Was this a case of a generic "easterner" killing his daughters because they were too much like "westerners"?

Did the family maybe move from Maine to California, and the father killed his daughters because they became too Californian for him?

I ask because somehow the story seems a bit incomplete and incomprehensibe without some further context.

For example, might a specific set of religious beliefs been a factor here?

[PBS Poll-435]

45. He was a taxi driver in Irving, TX and found out that his daughters were flirty at school

They changed clothes, talked on the phone, etc.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=51983

[Bragi]

53. So what made the father do that?

It's a bizarre tale for sure.

I note the report says the murderous father often ate at Denny's and IHOP.

Do you think that's where he got his mysogynist ideas about how his daughters ought to behave?

[PBS Poll-435]

61. I am pretty sure that IHOP did not convince him that his daughters should be "punished"

Because they were not living up to his standard of modesty.

[Bragi]

62. As the CarTalk guys would say, it's a puzzler /nt

[spanone]

30. religious nuts are religious nuts regardless of the religion

[patrice]

36. Thank YOU! Why couldn't/didn't OP say that????

:hi:

[cali]

38. um, the op posted a news story without comment. why should he/she

have posted a disclaimer? Does every news story about crazy christians get posted with such a disclaimer? Let me answer that for you: NO. Not a single fucking one.

[patrice]

50. All fine, up to the point that she refused to answer a question, that's her right AND also mine

to observe the refusal.

Is this or is this not a public board?

[Rebubula]

41. Sorry that offends you

But...there are dangerous parts of islam, hindi, christianity and all other cults.

This story was about the insanity of 'honor killings' - these DO NOT happen on a regular basis (if at all) in other religions. Period. This is a horrible practice that is limited to islam.

Want to talk about killing abortion docs - well, then we talk about christians. Killing lower castes - hindu. But when there is talk of honor killings - islam is all the rage.


If we can bash christianity and judaism - we can damn sure point out the glaring fallacies and violent parts of islam.

[leftynyc]

47. I'll be breathlessly waiting

for you on the next thread that bashes Christianity or any other religion for your magical balance fairy routine. You want to defend what this father did, knock yourself out...I hope he spends the rest of his miserable life in prison.

[patrice]

52. wow. You just proved your own bias by saying I am defending the father.

Mis-characterization is a hallmark of those who have run out of other tools.

I asked about the relevance of similar data related to Christians; I was defending whatever knowledge was the putative purpose of OP in the first place.

[leftynyc]

57. Not even once have

you condemned this crime. All you have done is dance around calling posters bigots and trying to deflect from this hideous crime. Yes, I call that defending.

[Quantess]

Because we also know that water is wet.

[Initech]

39. Yup. It's like the show Burn Notice says:

"No matter what the situation a guy with a gun is a guy with a gun."

Religious nuts are no different.

[timesup]

48. Idiotic

Perp lives in the US, there should be no forgiving blind religion loving stupidity, execute these wastes of space, that snap.
This includes all the abortion hater morons that kill with that excuse.
They don't apparently understand their own irony.

[patrice]

54. Apparently not! That must be because their sky-daddy is greater than the Muslim one. nt

[patrice]

55. Especially since we all just executed, what?, serveral 100K in Iraq. nt

[Rebubula]

58. LOL...you are funny....

Still tilting at that windmill due to your guilt at the actions of others.

[Union Scribe]

63. You're just determined to turn this into your own little crusade aren't you?

Deranged.

[leftstreet]

49. unRec

ugh

[Liberal_in_LA]

60. Sad.