Why I would like Bernie to run for President..........

[socialist_n_TN]

in the Democratic primaries. It's pretty simple really. He's a passionate and eloquent speaker who's UNDOUBTEDLY on the side of the working class and I'd like to see how that plays. I wouldn't expect him to win, but I'm REALLY curious as to how an avowed socialist (albeit a centrist one) would play with a few months worth of press as a presidential candidate. And he's the only one we've got with ANY sort of national recognition at all.

[truedelphi]

1. I'd like to see that too. But not only would I not expect him

To win, I doubt he would live to see the election results counted.

Strange things happen to people who run and are too progressive.

[socialist_n_TN]

2. I sometimes wonder when it's becomes...........

action in the name of self defense. I HATE to be so cynical about things, but if they don't let go one way, EVENTUALLY they'll be forced to let go in another MUCH more painful way.

[truedelphi]

5. People who understand that the 3 hundred to 4 hundred millions of dollars that

The French Aristocracy blew in a matter of about ten years, and the price that was paid for that "mistake" - well those of us understanding that, also understand that if it is true Bernanke and Geithner gave out via the back door of the federal Reserve some eleven to thirty trillion bucks in two years, the same results as were seen in the days of the French revolution could occur again.

And could make that event look like a picnic.

The word "revolution" is a misnomer, because what happened was basically a violent display of anarchy, lasting for a decade. And in some years the anarchy took down the established elements of society and the next year took out the new elements of society. No one was safe.

[Ozymanithrax]

3. It would be tough for him to run effectively for he President and the Senate in 2012...

Would you rather have a failed Presidential attempt or Bernie Sanders as a Senator.

In this country, Bernie will not win. In fact, I don't think it is possible for any independent Candidate to win. Even Teddy Roosevelt, who had been President and was known and liked widely in the U.S. could not win as an independent.

[Capitalocracy]

6. I hope he survives the Citizens United chopping block. nt

[Ozymanithrax]

11. It will depend on who they run against him.

Bernie is pretty popular in his state.

[cascadiance]

16. That's why I think if he were a Democrat, another Democrat would have no chance against him...

... in a primary, but in a general election, if you have both a Democrat running and a Republican, he might lose his Senate seat then if the Democrats put a lot of money in to the campaign, and in that case it might just hand the seat to the Republicans too. But with the crowd we have in charge of the Democratic Party now, that might be preferable to them than having Bernie in the Senate with the way they're leaning so far to the right these days.

[Ozymanithrax]

20. In 2006, Bernie primaried as a Democrat then dropped out to run as an independent...

and with no Dmeocrat kicked Repuplican Ass.

Prett smart him making sure that he would have no oppositon on the left or center.

It will depend on whether Democrats run against him, and how popular his oponent is.

[cascadiance]

21. Howard Dean made sure he didn't have an opponent then when he was the head of the DNC...

Now with Tim Kaine staying through next election, lots of luck getting similar treatment in the next election from him that Dean gave Sanders then. I don't think he'll be as hands off. Especially if Bernie continues to stands up for us against some of the "centrist" crap that's coming out of this administration recently.

In principle I also would like him to run independently. But the most important thing is that he can get as much power to represent us as he can. If he can find a way to be president, whether it be as an independent or necessarily as a Democrat, then I'm for either outcome there. But also, I don't want his efforts to do that to cost him his Senate seat if he loses the presidential race.

If the Tea Party candidates ran as separate candidates in the general election instead of the Republican primaries, they'd have had no chance (as Christine O'Donnell and Joe Miller have shown).

I think progressives need to take a similar confrontational approach in the primaries with perhaps other "party takeover" efforts like they did.

[Ozymanithrax]

27. O'Donnel and Miller were Republcans who won in a Republian primary.

It is unlikely that they would have won in a general as a Teaparty Candidate. Without the backing and approval of the Republican Party they would have done worse. However, Rubio and Paul won, aslo as Republicans.

After Bernie pulled out to run as an independent, it would have been tough getting a Candidate with the recogniztion to win. Bernie already beat the other Dmeocrats and won by a big margin. I've yet to see anyone throwing a hat in te ring against him from the Democratic side.

[cali]

24. OK. Bernie will be endorsed by the VT dem party- just as he was in 2006

and you clearly no absolutely zilch about the dem party in VT. Boy, people around here, really don't know anything about VT politics- which is fine, but I wish people who don't know anything about it would stop opining erroneously on the subject.

[defendandprotect]

18. ...and how much corporate money will Obama need to do that?

[cali]

23. there's practically no chance of Bernie being defeated in Vermont

CU is simply not an issue here.

[cascadiance]

4. If he ran as a Democrat, it might be better to run also for his Senate seat then...

His term is up in 2012 in the Senate, so he'll be running for his seat in the Senate too. If he does an independent campaign for president, you can bet that the Dems will try to run a strong Democrat against him for his Senate seat to try and sidetrack him from his presidential campaign. If he were to run as a Democrat instead, even if the Dems tried to primary him, he'd likely win the primary, and then he wouldn't have to worry about getting reelected to the Senate as a fallback if he were to lose the presidential primaries as a Dem.

You know Kaine isn't going to give him the free pass that Howard Dean did earlier.

So if he runs for 2012 presidential election, I think pragmatically, he might be better off running as a Dem.

Perhaps he could also try to "lead a Green takeover" of the Democratic Party much like the Tea Partiers have tried to do with the Republican Party too. He's one independent that would have the voice to help lead this effort. Then perhaps we could shove the DLC scum out of the party to become Republicans the way they SHOULD be running!

[mmonk]

12. I'm not so sure. He probably should remain an independent Senator.

The reason I say that is because he is thus not subject to party blackmail concerning support if he fails to tow the party line (because he doesn't belong to it). In fact, it might be better if progressives started running as independents. That might bring populist pressure on a party that has abandoned that to corral corporate and think tank support.

[cascadiance]

15. I'd like a progressive independent party too...

... but I'm not sure it is a practical solution to mounting a real party challenge in 2012. I don't know if we can wait another eight years to work through a mess where we have Republicans in charge.

I don't know how much pressure Democratic Party leaders can bring to bear on Sanders, but I think if he makes no bones that he's joining the party to CHANGE it and in effect help the progressives take it back over. If he makes sure that's understood up front then it might be hard for them to lean on him. Whether he joins the party or not, if he tries to run for president, he's going to have a lot of pressure to bear on him, especially since he has to defend his senate seat then too. I really don't want him to not run for his senate seat to run for president. Which I think he might be pushed to do if he does run, especially as an independent. Too much to lose if he doesn't win the presidency.

If we want an independent candidate to run with a chance of winning, we need to have some organization gathering quite a big of steam right now or there will be no chance then.

[mmonk]

25. I wasn't talking about a party. I was talking about being independent

of one. There is a difference. An independent can't be leveraged against the same way a party hack can.

[Cleita]

7. Neither he nor many of the other liberals will run against

a sitting Democratic President. It's kind of a courtesy. If Obama doesn't run though, he might consider it.

[Donnachaidh]

8. Vermont and the country need Bernie in the SENATE.

He does more for the country by being the one real mouthpiece the working class has in the Senate. And while Vermont seems to be a state that has some real thinkers with consciences, it's still not a rich enough state to lose someone as talented as Bernie.

I'd love to have him run - but I also would hate to see him subjected to the money games required to campaign for the office -- especially after Citizen's United. He'd be put through a proverbial meatgrinder, feet first. I for one don't want to see that.

I know I will most definitely give to his Senatorial race this time. My money is going to the candidates that did something, that stood up for something.

[valerief]

9. +666 trillion

[defendandprotect]

19. Most of all we need to CLONE Bernie Sanders ... we need 100 more like him!!

Less Obama, more Sanders!!

[HughBeaumont]

34. There's also Sherrod Brown, don't forget. And Al Franken.

That's a whopping 3, I know.

[polmaven]

10. You do realize

that Berine Sanders in not a Democrat, right?

[socialist_n_TN]

30. Yes I do realize that. But I still think he could run AS.......

a Democrat in the primaries. He used to be a Dem after all. It would be kind of an insurgency campaign. And I think if he went into it not necessarily expecting to win, just as a gauge of support for policies that actually HELP the workers, it would be an interesting experiment. Financing the campaign of course would NOT come from traditional sources, but from individuals.

[truedelphi]

43. It's sort of ironic that one of the handful of people in office that act like

An FDR Dem is actually an independent.

[glinda]

13. He would make a great President ONLY if we have Progressive majorities.

Otherwise his energy would be wasted. Call it selfless on my part.

[ProSense]

14. Check out Senator Sanders'

2010 milestones here.

[defendandprotect]

17. We need a someone we feel we trust and can trust -- that's Sanders ....

he can run on a dem ticket --

How about Sanders/Goodman --

We need people from outside the party machinery if we're going to try to

break this corporate hold on the party--

[cali]

22. well want all you wish, but Bernie has zero interest in running.

[socialist_n_TN]

31. I also realize that. It was just my personal thought...........

experiment. I'd be interested to see how much support an avowed socialist (and he's the only one we have with ANY sort of name recognition) could garner with a few months in the spotlight.

I don't expect it to happen even though I'd like to see it.

[JTFrog]

26. Bernie supports President Obama.

Maybe he can run in 2016.

[MilesColtrane]

28. Because this worked out so well for Democrats and the country in general:

1980 Democratic Presidential Primary

[socialist_n_TN]

32. That was 30 years ago. Times are different now...............

for both sides of the political spectrum.

[MilesColtrane]

39. In what particular respect is a long, acrimonious primary fight...

different from then, and how is it good for party unity in a general election?

[socialist_n_TN]

41. Why would it have to ba acrimonious?...............

I would imagine that IF this VERY unlikely scenario happened, it would be more of an issues based campaign. I don't see Bernie making it acrimonious. IF he did it, it would just to get that socialist voice out in front of the people and let them decide.

I remember the Carter/Kennedy thing and it WAS acrimonious. They didn't particularly like each other at that time. I don't think that there's that personal dislike happening between Obama and Sanders.

Anyway, I know it won't happen. I'd just like to see those ISSUES out there with a REAL progressive voice with some popularity, advocating those issues. I think they would be a winner with a sizable block of the voting public.

[MilesColtrane]

42. The acrimony doesn't necessarily come from the top in a primary.

I'm sure Obama and Hillary were generally pleasant toward each other in 2008.

Their supporters? Not so much.

[Orsino]

29. Really, you don't.

We certainly need someone like him in the Oval office, but we also need many more like him in Congress.

But watching a Sanders presidential run go down to ignominious defeat would not be pleasurable nor productive. :-(

[socialist_n_TN]

33. It depends on what your expectations are..................

If an avowed socialist could garner 20 to 30 percent in the Dem primary, I think that it would scare the shit out of the capitalist PTB and MIGHT get some compromises out of them to keep a social safety net for a while longer.

The threat of socialism in the USA was what got the compromises that FDR got, after all. If it worked once, maybe it could work again.

[Raksha]

37. Good point. n/t

[Orsino]

38. Ah. You're suggesting that Sanders join the Democratic Party and primary Obama?

Not gonna happen, according to the Party leadership.

If it did, there might be an effect similar to what you hope for. I think it more likely that the TV would shout "Socialist!" so often that the effect would be negated--and that any compromises wrought would be shouted down by the usual right-wing suspects.

But I would love to see an America left-wing enough to make Sanders a serious contender.

[socialist_n_TN]

40. But to me that's the whole point.........

Just HOW much support would an avowed socialist garner with a few months of air time as a presidential candidate. I think it would be stronger than expected, especially over the long term. If he kept pounding and pounding on the issues that matter to the average person, they would probably EVENTUALLY, realize that those issues would have public approval. IOW, more people would realize that they're "socialists" too.

As to the Dem party thing, doesn't that depend on the individual states? Closed primary states he'd have to go back to being a Democrat, but don't several states have open primaries?

[Orsino]

44. I wish it could work that way...

...but it won't. Not here, not now.

Sanders' single voice will be drowned out by many more of the right-wing screamers. What they did to neuter Obama will be done to Sanders tenfold, because he does not have the president's charisma and he proudly wears the Socialist label (a convenient carrying handle for the Foxier types).

America is not ready for Sanders. I just thank the gods that we have him in the Senate.

[dflprincess]

35. I would too, but Bernie is up for reelection to the Senate in 2012

and, from strictly a practical view point, I would rather he concentrate on keeping that position.

[ladjf]

36. It's a sweet dream that can't come true. But, I might vote for him

anyway. nt