WW2 question

[tulsakatz]

I'm currently reading a book, JFK: the CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Kill John F Kennedy by L Fletcher Prouty

It's a good book! I've certainly learned much more about Vietnam than I ever knew before! And I grew up in the 60s.....but I had never heard (until now) how we got involved in that war.

Anyway, getting to my question.... During WW2 our enemies were Germany, Italy and Japan. After the end of World War 2, it was decided that any new conflict would be based on communism vs anti-communism (east vs west). We even hired German scientists to work for us, presumably to keep them away from the communists.

It just seems odd to me that we turned away from an ally, the Soviets and somehow became friends with one of our former enemies, Germany! This book covers a lot of information about how it happened but it hasn't addressed why that happened.......

[customerserviceguy]

1. We were able to find people in Germany

who were oppressed by the Nazis, yet doing their bidding during the war under duress. We were able to pacify Germany (and Japan, for that matter) relatively quickly. We haven't been nearly as successful in our Arabic wars, but then, we haven't used the methods that WWII was fought with, either.

[Warren Stupidity]

3. We employed a lot of nazi fucks.

Your rosy picture of our post war dealings with Germany is not real.

[justabob]

10. no kidding

Paperclip was not just about the poor oppressed scientists. We took hardliners and other unsavory characters to go into business for us in a number of fields, particularly intelligence.

[customerserviceguy]

19. We took advantage of the fact

that they hated the communists worse than they hated us. So far, we've been trying not to pick sides between Shia and Sunni, and that's why we've been unsuccessful. They don't want to get along, they want to kill each other. They'll surely use the lack of an iron boot at their throats to resume doing so when we finally leave.

[Call Me Wesley]

12. But Wernher von Braun never really liked being a member of the NSDAP.

Since he was 'forced' to apply for a membership in 1938. He didn't like the fact that KZ-prisoners had to work for him either. He often said: "I know nuthing!"

It still fascinates me how fast this guy became an American hero and father of NASA. And his team from Peenemünde altogether.

[cali]

2. we were allied with the U.S.S.R out of perceived need. It wasn't

a relationship like the one between the U.S. and Great Britain. And we weren't, in the immediate aftermath of the war "friends" with Germany, but the conquerors. Nothing really unfathomable about how it all sugared off.

[Codeine]

4. There's a difference between "ally" and "enemy of my enemy." nt

[Statistical]

5. We were never strong allies of the Soviets.

It was a partnership of necessity. Germany was very powerful and had nearly suceeded in taking over Europe. One could imagine our "alliance" with Soviets as a Mutual Survival Pact. After the war there was no common enemy. Conditions were put in place to ensure Germany would never be a threat. To the victor goes the spoils, so Russia, US, and other Allies carved up Germany, both physically and technologically.

The other allies were empires in terminal decline. WWII caused two front runners to emerge. US & USSR. Conflict was inevitable. The fact that they were communist was merely a reason to fear/distrust them.

[tulsakatz]

14. ok, that makes sense......

it just seemed strange to me how the US & USSR became enemies so soon after the war. But it does make sense how no one seemed to know who to trust after the war.....

[Esse Quam Videri]

6. I've been watching the series 'World War II in Color' on

the Military Channel (I know, I know...sounds like a channel some right wing tool would watch 24-7). However I've always been interested in learning more about WWII since both my dad and uncle were in the army in WWII. My uncle was actually in the Battle of the Bulge. The series does a great job of touching on all conflicts of the war and how each county actually got pulled into the war. Last week's episode showed how the Soviets defeated the Germans on the Eastern Front and then began their march west towards Berlin. Along the way they took over the Balkan States (which they would control for the next 40 plus years). I think this expansionist doctrine by the Soviets had a lot to do with how the US viewed them right after the war (or probably before the war even ended).

Very interesting program for anyone who is interested.

[tulsakatz]

13. thanks for mentioning that.......

I have the military channel but haven't watched it much. Sometimes I watch the History channel...

I had never really studied WW2 much but now, as I get older, for some reason I'm becoming more interested in it.

[old mark]

7. Many of the highly placed post WWII government officials in Germany

were former Nazis.
What happened was that Stalin decided to keep all the places in Europe his army had "liberated" permanently, resulting in the East/West divide in Europe and the cold war. Of course, US pols used every fear creating device and exageration they could concieve of for their own gain, which did not help anyone else.

mark

[whistler162]

8. Less us turning away from the USSR than the USSR

double dealing on the countries they "liberated".

[RZM]

9. The Soviets had a much more accurate name for the Grand Alliance

They called it the 'Anti-Hitler Coalition,' which illustrates that it wasn't a real alliance but a marriage of convenience.

A lot of historians think the Cold War was inevitable -- the Soviets were adamant about returning to 1941 borders after the war, which included the territory they had absorbed in collusion with the Nazis (the Baltic states, Eastern Poland, Bessarabia etc.). Stalin was very concerned about security -- he wanted to make sure he had a secure buffer to protect against a potentially resurgent Germany. IMO, the stage was set for strategic and ideological differences as soon as the Soviets started winning the war.

This book is a classic on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Russias-Road-Cold-Vojtech-Mastny/dp/0231043619/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1294064282&sr=8-2

[tulsakatz]

16. thanks.........

that does make a lot of sense!

[Javaman]

11. You made a statement, but asked no question.

What was your question again?

[HEyHEY]

15. +1 n/t

[tulsakatz]

17. the question was.........

...how and why did we turn away from one of our allies, the Soviets and become friends with one of our enemies, Germany?

But that's ok, I've already received other opinions and I think I have a better idea now of how that happened......

[Archae]

18. I think it's fairly obvious.

We booted the dictator out in Germany.
The Nazis were out of power.

The dictatorship that wanted to continue expanding was Stalin. And he was still in power.

[Javaman]

20. Usually, a question ends in a question mark...

but that's okay, people confuse statements with questions all the time.

[COLGATE4]

21. The short answer is that we didn't turn away from Russia - Russia

turned away from us. Stalin, once the danger to his regime was over, immediately moved to consolidate his power in every country in Europe that he could. Obviously, we didn't agree. Therefore, the cold war.

[Nevernose]

22. You do know that we invaded Soviet Russia c.1918, don't you?

With the intention of kicking out the communists? They never forgot that, although most Americans did -- it wasn't a huge operation, and when it got hard, rather than double dow we quit -- but the Russians never forgot our actions. WE sarted the Cold War, we did it with England and Germany's help, and we did it decades before WWII. At least that's the Russian view of things.

[KharmaTrain]

23. There Was Always A War Against Bolshevism...

It included the deportation of "Russian sympathizers" in the final days of World War I. The US didn't recognize the Soviet government until 1933 and then at arm's distance.

Hitler & Stalin signed a non-aggression pact in Aug. 1939 that started WWII...then two years later Hitler pulled a double-cross on Stalin. It was only then that the US and its allies began making overatures to Stalin. The adage...the enemy of my enemy is my friend (we still play this game in the Middle East).

Even during the war there was little trust of the Soviets. A big reason the US rushed the production of the atomic bomb and then its use was as much a show to the Soviets as it was to anyone else. While they wanted the Soviets to declare war on Japan...which they did in the waning days of the war, the US also wanted to limit the Soviet involvement. Read up on the Potsdam Conference of 1945 and you'll see there was already the seeds of the Cold War in plain view.

The bottom line is that Stalin wanted a buffer to prevent another invasion on his borders from a westernized Germany or another Western power (the US)...there was little love or trust between the US and the USSR before, during and definitely after the war.

[postalanthrax]

24. greedy capitalism vs. socialism

Capitalists in America invested in Nazi Germany before and during the war. They saw Nazi Germany as a bulwark against the Bolshevik Revolution that swept Russia from moving into western Europe.

Capitalism is an ally of Fascism whereas Socialism is an enemy of greedy Capitalism.