Honest question: Why aren't there more "DU" OP's?

[WingDinger]

Plenty of rehashed Op-EDs and non fiction articles, but putting it out there seems kinda rare.

[SteppingRazor]

1. You mean lengthy, original, thoughtful work?

One good reason no one bothers: That stuff sinks like a stone.

[prolesunited]

5. Exactly

I used to take my time and research things and post links. I kept it to the point with lots of white space so readability wasn't an issue. But, people didn't respond so I quit trying.

[elocs]

35. Yep. Been there, done that. I've posted well though out and researched OPs as well

only to see them largely ignored. Yet we have our DU names who can post just "Hi" in an OP and people will fall all over themselves to respond and Rec it.

I pretty much just respond to posts now.

[blondeatlast]

7. Exactly. I've occasionally offered up some, gotten a few recs--and watched my work hit page 3 in

the time it takes to go to the bathroom.

[jobycom]

8. Yep. The implied "TL/DNR." nt

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. I've run out of things to say, I've been here so long.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. Original thinking is very hard for most of us to do...

I can do it, from time to time, but it's rare for me to be so worked up about something that I have to post about it...

:shrug:

[HopeHoops]

3. I had an original thought once, but then I found out someone else had it first.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. LOL!

[jobycom]

10. In Bartletts once, I saw a quote like "No one can say something that hasn't been said already."

They had cross-references to similar quotes dating back to ancient Greece. :)

[WingDinger]

13. Most of the stuff I say, I've never heard. At least not in the way I say it.

And I don't edit. At all. Well, hardly. We have many bright bulbs here.

[madinmaryland]

23. Huh?

I heard you drop the "f-bomb" more than a few times!

:D

:hi:

[WingDinger]

24. Like I said, I don't edit. And I wish this was more like an Effin' poetry slam.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

27. My dear madinmaryland!

Dropping F-Bombs is hardly original with me!

:hi:

:rofl:

[MineralMan]

4. Most people don't take the trouble to write them.

I do, sometimes, but I'm busy with work right now. It's easier, it seems, to just post something someone else wrote, no matter whether they're reliable, accurate, or correct.

[WingDinger]

9. I would like to see those that take the trouble to get boosted, officially.

Like more front page time. Or, better visibility somehow on the greatest page. OP's make this seem much more like a community.

[WingDinger]

11. Or, noteable OPers get journal PR and reprint.

[MineralMan]

12. Well, truly original posts rarely get enough replies to be

noticed. Typically, they sink fast.

[WingDinger]

14. Any of mine that got attention were accused of trolling.

[The Straight Story]

15. I've written a few in my time

Hard to do when at work though :)

[stevenleser]

16. I would offer to write some. I would even take requests, i.e., hey Steve, check into this...

I get a lot of my ideas here anyway.

[pretzel4gore]

18. Du too big....

a person could read all day/night, and never keep up. Posts fall into an abyss-if lucky, they drag down a couple barnacles/replies until the mists obscure....Mister pig monitors DU though, so it's important that as many 'seditious' anti pig posts are made as is possible.
>this for mister Pig:

I met a drop of water
It took some time for me;
It said "'There's half a dozen billion of us'...
...'within this raging sea'"
she spoke with many accents
each one different from the other;
But there's one thing best remembered,
when discussing drops of water...
Though their differences are many
and similarities few;
in the morning when the sun comes up
Everyone of us is wet!

[WingDinger]

20. Never tried prose, and any attempt at Haiku is followed by gesundheit.

[eleny]

19. I predict there will be more when the new House of Reps gets into high gear

But I know what you mean about the lack of OPs. Mine also sank like stones.

Many of the original thinkers have gone or no longer post here. Some were ts'd, some have died and many have gone quiet.

[Cleita]

21. A lot of our good writers, who

were here in the early days and who did put up some very good work, have moved on, or have in some cases have their own blogs and websites they are affiliated with.

[Joe Fields]

22. Because I saw the light.

I post rarely anymore.

Just speaking for myself.

[jobycom]

25. Like casting pearls before swine, too often.

I used to write a lot of stuff here, especially longer posts within other threads. I did that to try to further a discussion that was already going, rather than just start another thread. I've always liked threads that have a lot of horizontal and a little less vertical.

I don't do it as much anymore, and many times I actually write a long response and then decide not to post it. The place has just gotten too unwieldy. I can post a well-thought out response using logical arguments and facts, and most of the responses to it are either "Nice post. nt." or "What do they pay you to post such clap-trap bullshit?!?!!11" The times people do try to discuss it, they completely miss the point, if they bother to read it. I remember posting a longer post on the JFK assassination, for instance, and devoting a few lines to debunking the idea that the "magic bullet" had to do anything magical to cause the wounds it caused. Several of the responses were along the line of "They sure made you drink the koolaid!" with a list of "proofs" that I had just debunked. A couple jumped in with "How do you explain the zig-zagging bullet, then?" even thought a) I had clearly addressed that in the post, and b) other people had already asked the same question. Many responses just repeated what someone else had already said and I had already responded to. And some were so completely illogical and frankly idiotic that it was hard to tell if they were serious or satirical.

The art of discussion is dead. Back in 02 I could get in hot arguments with people and still stay civilized. They would blast me with their facts, and while I would disagree with the facts, at least there was real discussion, and an attempt (usually) to stay civilized. They even banned or locked posters for not being civilized.

Now people don't read the posts, they don't reply with anything other than insults are one liner praise, and the few people who respond with actual points and logic are few and far between, and usually defensive because they expect you to be unreasonable.

So I post a lot fewer long, thought-out posts than I used to, and I know a lot of other posters who say the same thing. I guess the short answer is basically fewer people post original stuff because so few people bother to read it through.

[WilliamPitt]

26. Just a guess

But I work at Truthout, and sorting through zillions of submissions, picking the good and culling the bad, editing them, posting them with proper HTML intact, is a FUCK of a big job...and we at Truthout don't also have to manage 300 subforums populated by maniacs.

Ergo, it's probably more work than the Three Amigos care to deal with. Don't blame them.

[Bluenorthwest]

28. What have they to do with people making OP's?

So all that information, very fun job, but how does it relate to the subject matter? Zillions, maniacs, some stand above, but how does this relate to people posting OPs which are original? How does that make work for Skinner and Co? Please explain.

[WilliamPitt]

29. Derp.

My bad.

I thought you were talking about articles posted on the home page, ones that would fall under the Admin's purview, not OP articles in the forums.

It is my experience that a dozen or more very good OP articles get posted here daily. I do it twice a week. If you want to promote the practice, find them and kick them up.

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. It takes too long for the bruises to go away. n/t

[zipplewrath]

31. It's a way around the rules

If you write it, and it violates one of the DU rules,you can get deleted, locked, or banned. But if you post something written for another forum, especially if you avoid additional comments of your own, then it will be allowed, as long as the subsequent discussion doesn't turn into a flame fest. Even then, the thread will most likely be locked, but you won't be restricted.

[notadmblnd]

32. There are those out there that do. H2Oman is one whose posts i never miss

Will Pitt is another whose OPs are generally his writing. Personally, I'm not talented enough to articulate my thoughts into coherent scribe.

[madamesilverspurs]

33. In all honesty,

many of our best OP writers have left for other venues where civility is required. The loss of common courtesy in many of our discussions drove away many readers and discouraged informative conversation. We can all hope that DU's boards will soon regain some semblance of courtesy and respect.

-

[WingDinger]

34. If that were the case, they would return. I dont need adherents, just honest critics.

Those aspects of debate have largely been preserved here, of late. And should be of benefit, going forward.

[madamesilverspurs]

37. That's as may be.

However, given the time and effort those writers put into their OPs it became an exercise in futility when 'honest critics' were replaced or shouted down by those bent on achieving disruption. How many OP threads were locked due to the abuses perpetrated in the comments? Instead of conversations we got slug fests. There was no discussion, no debate. And those who objected to seeing their OP threads thus hijacked were told to shut up and sit down. Can't say as I blame them for going elsewhere.

There was a time when OPs could generate excellent conversation and exchange of opinion. But that party was crashed, and we honestly need to recognize that there are those for whom forums such as this one are construed as invitations for pissing in the punchbowl. Given a choice between civility and counterproductivity our absent writers have chosen civility - because it's more productive.

-

[notadmblnd]

36. I don't find that to be the case at all

I think many make the issue of civility here- out to be more of a problem than it actually is. If you were here early on, perhaps you found that we all had more in common back then? We were united in our disdain for the bush admin. Perhaps that gave the perception that it was more civil here? But I've been here a long time and people are no more uncivil now than they've been in the past.

And please, don't doubt for a minute that there aren't those here that feign insult in order to get people banned and discussions shutdown. IMO, if people are so sensitive that they are easily offended by anonymous posters on a discussion board- then perhaps they should take a break; maybe work on their insecurities and personal issues instead?

[EFerrari]

38. DU got so bad for a while it was painful to read.

But the admins have done a good job of tweaking the rules and the community has responded well. We could do more, still.

[notadmblnd]

40. Well yeah they could. they could tell each and every one of us what we can or can not say

But then what would be the point of having any discussion at all?

[EFerrari]

41. I said, we could do more.

Civility is as much habit as agreement, imo. The admins and the community can make the agreement but the habit takes a bit of time to rehab.

It's nice not to see posters at each other throats all the time. It leaves so much more space for discussions to break out. lol

[Blue_In_AK]

39. Some people may be afraid to post what really goes on

in their minds (me).