LEAKED DOCS: US Forces In Afghanistan Have EXTENSIVELY Used White Phosphorus In DENSE Populations

[kpete]

Leaked documents have revealed that US-led forces in Afghanistan have made extensive use of white phosphorus bombs in densely-populated areas.


A review of the Afghan military documents revealed more than 1,100 instances of US-led forces -- including Danish troops -- having used white phosphorus (WP) grenades, rockets and bombs, the Danish daily Information reported.

According to one document, US-led forces fired 20 to 50 WP rockets at a single target.

Many of the WP munitions have often been used in residential areas.

White phosphorus is a substance that burns upon coming into contact with human flesh; it sticks to the skin and continues to burn as long as there is oxygen. The result is severe and possibly lethal chemical burns.

MORE:
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/179875.html

[druidity33]

1. Were these Wikileak Docs?

Is Press TV an Israeli website? Who runs/owns it?

The article is scant on info...

[SidDithers]

18. Presstv is the state run media organization of the Iranian government...nt

Sid

[Jackpine Radical]

2. There is probably no more barbaric "weapon" than WP.

It absolutely sickens me that we would be using it.

If you want to ruin your digestion for the week, go Google white phosphorus images. For the sake of the more normal people on this board, I'm not posting any of those pictures.

[mountainlion55]

3. The slang term is

Willy-Pete. I remember this stuff from my stupid and short time in the army at fort Leonard Wood in Missouri. Its as terrible a weapon as Napalm,depleted Uranium and cluster bombs. Its burns so hot that it will destroy the barrel on various weapons. It will just burn straight through a human being.
Oh I forgot, our fearless leader and macho weekend warrior does not consider them as human.

[sufrommich]

4. What is the Danish Daily Information ? This is their source.

It was also their source for reporting that the Swine Flu epidemic was a conspiracy between the World Health Organization and Big Pharma. I'll wait for confirmation from other sources.

[reorg]

10. This is the source:

The original article: http://www.information.dk/265853

with Google translator: http://is.gd/QfKCKu

The Danish newspaper "Information" is listed here: http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/denmark.htm

and this is their documentation "ISAF's use of white phosphorus" via Google translator: http://is.gd/s2FyQn

As you can see from the notes on this article,

"Information has been given access to 14,821 U.S. intelligence reports from the war in Afghanistan. The reports are called ThreatFire reports - threat reports, which contain different types of intelligence based on information from sources or electronic monitoring."


The 14,821 intelligence reports are the part of the Afghan warlogs withheld by Wikileaks on the grounds that they may contain the names of spies and informers. A handful of media outlets, including The Guardian, Der Spiegel and The New York Times had been given access to those, but had chosen not to publish them in their entirety.

[sufrommich]

5. PressTV is an Iranian News Organization. I take this about

as seriously as I take Iran's fear of "sorcerers".

[sufrommich]

7. More from Wiki:

In 2010 the International Commission for Human Rights in Iran identified Press TV as being part of the Iranian regime's intelligence apparatus, and that Press TV collaborated with human rights violators to publicise forced confessions of dissidents. <9>

[Aerows]

14. Actually, this isn't new information

We used it in Iraq, particularly in Fallujah in 2004 and 2005, and we use it in Afghanistan. The WP rounds used on the Palestinians by Israel were US-made rounds.

[seabeyond]

20. very very little of wikileaks has been new info. nt

[seabeyond]

6. didn't we know this during bush time. nt

[rfranklin]

8. We only use humane predator drones with pinpoint accuracy...

now if we could only figure out the correct targets...

[MineralMan]

9. Questionable source, actually. Very questionable.

Unless you can find reliable independent corroboration from a source that is not a tool of Iranian intelligence, I'm going to take this as propaganda. Can you find such information? Post a link.

[reorg]

11. PressTV is not the original source

- what the hell is wrong with you guys?

It says right there in the article that they are merely quoting a Danish daily. Took me less than five minutes to find it online, and Google translates Danish into English quite nicely. Now what? Are you going to question the Danish paper until you get confirmation by the oh so reliable New York Times?

[Aerows]

13. Not to mention

we make 155mm WP rounds, and have confirmed their use in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Who do you think made the rounds the Israelis used against the Palestinians? If you guessed the US, you would be right.

We don't make them for no reason - we make them because we use them.

It's a well-established fact that we use them, and it takes all of 30 seconds to get article after article mentioning that we use them.

[reorg]

15. I know

and I believe everyone else does, too. But they won't talk about it. The original article is from April 19, and I found another Danish newspaper reporting the same a day or two later. But nobody other than PressTV - almost a month later - appear to have picked up on it. Interesting.

So, down goes the thread to the bottom of the pile.

[SidDithers]

19. Then why not use the original source?...

So we can evaluate if it's as 'reliable' as presstv.

Sid

[Aerows]

12. Here's a wired article from 2009

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2009/05/halt-to-afghan-airstrikes-not-too-likely-says-obama-advisor/

It says right in the article that the US and NATO have been using white phosphorus rounds. It's horrific to be reminded that we are using WP in Afghanistan, but it isn't new information. It was also used in Fallujah in 2005. It's specifically used in urban areas to flush people out.

We make it in 155mm rounds. The WP used in the Gaza strip were 155mm US-made rounds.

[KoKo]

21. Kick...since many feel "Press TV" isn't a believable source.

There have been other reports that we've been using it. I don't know whether Obama ever ordered it to stop though.

[themadstork]

16. oh gawd

I didn't know this was something we still used. WTF?! Our imperial shamelessness knows no bounds.

[SidDithers]

17. Unrec for presstv...nt

Sid

[dionysus]

28. vaht? was you saying shumthin, talkking about press teeveeeee?

[reorg]

31. PressTV were the most fervent supporters of the insurgency in Libya

- which made me very early suspicious about whom "we" are supporting there with our bombs.

[w8liftinglady]

22. Just as a resource, Army Lawyers wrote a lengthy article on this subject in 2010

you'll scroll through their definition of detaining prisoners(also worth a read)...



http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/06-2010.pdf

I thought this was interesting

"In terms of application, the legal nuance between nonincendiary
and incendiary use of white phosphorous may
alter the employment decision. For example, assume a
commander is leading a unit conducting a military operation
in a city where civilians and civilian objects are commingled
with combatants and military objectives. If the commander
reasonably determines the traditional law of war principles
are satisfied, he may use white phosphorous to obscure the
unit’s movement through the city despite incidental civilian
casualties or incidental damage to civilian objects.
However, if the same commander decides to use white
phosphorous to burn enemy positions in that same city, any
incidental civilian casualties or incidental damage to civilian
objects would violate Protocol III. The only discernable
difference between these two scenarios is the commander’s
reason for employing white phosphorous, yet the
consequences are dramatically different and illustrate why
operational law attorneys should understand the legal
distinction between non-incendiary and incendiary use of
white phosphorous."

[Robb]

23. Horseshit. The original article, printed a month ago:

Right here, and in English:

http://www.information.dk/265810

It dances quite carefully around the fact that it's wholly unclear what white phosphorous is being used for, like for example for flares, smoke screens and target marking -- to say nothing of who is even using those flares. It also does not reproduce the documents in question, but rather http://www.information.dk/265808">excerpts where even a casual reading finds words like "marking" and "illuminating."

20. November 2009
S: Unkas : RPG , SAFL : 41R PR 6689 2811T: 0511ZA : REQ CAUPDATE 280830ZNOV09 ASOC Reported att CAS A01 Went kinetic IVO FOB Amhem with 2 x WP marking rockets and 750 rounds 30MM strafe to 41R PR 65,976 28,504 to 0550Z (iGeoSit Shows att this grid corresponds med non-populated area) . Samma JTAC & jet kinetic Went again to ca 0800Z med 1400 rounds 30MM strafe to 41R PR 65,230 27,880 (iGeoSit Shows att this grid corresponds med en imitation) . Awaiting ground BDA ...

The argument is summed up in a map caption:

The map shows the locations where international forces have used white phosphorous. In most cases, used white phosphorus to mark bomb targets or illumination of the battle area, but large quantities, ISAF forces have used in some places, suggesting that the napalm-like substance is also used illegally as assault weapons.

...Get that? The argument amounts to "They must be using phosphorous as a weapon, because they're using so much of it."

Thin. And amazingly, a month later, still no follow-up piece from anyone other than Iran's propaganda arm. Little wonder why.

[SidDithers]

25. +1 & kick...nt

Sid

[reorg]

29. Perhaps I can help you out

The documents in question are reproduced in their entirety as everyone who has taken a look at those logs will notice. Yes, in part they are brief, hard to decipher, and contain spelling errors. But they are not incomprehensible. A headline over each log states who is using the white phosphorous shells (American, French, Canadian, Danish forces).

The article contrasts some reports where illegitimate use is suspected due to the disproportionate number of white phosphorous rounds (examples 1-3) with other reports which seem to indicate legitimate use of a small number of white phosphorous shells to light up the area (examples 4+5).

Here is the Danish text of the original article with English translation (italic) and the original logs as cited in the article (in English, emphasis as original):

Men i andre tilfælde ISAF-styrker store mængder hvid fosforammunition tilsyneladende som direkte angrebsvåben. Forkortelsen for hvid fosfor er WP (white phosphorous):
But in other cases, ISAF forces use large quantities of white phosphorus munitions apparently as a direct attack weapons. The abbreviation for white phosphorus is WP (white phosphorous):

Amerikanske ISAF-styrker skyder 30 runder fosfor mod oprørsmål
American ISAF forces shoot 30 rounds of phosphorous against insurgent target

19. juni 2008
Unit: HHC/1-503Type: HIFTimeline: At 0310z Zerok COP fired 120mm HE on SIGINT driven targets, there are 12 targets all together…
7441UPDATE: MOD observed a visual POO at WB 260 692. In response TF Eagle fired 30x120mm WP onto that grid and dropped 2xGBU31s on vicinity same grid…
Closedat 1653zISAF #06-862 AFG20080619n1587


Amerikanske ISAF-styrker skyder 18 runder hvid fosfor mod oprørsmål
American ISAF forces shoot 18 rounds of white phosphorus against insurgent target

1. juli 2008
TF EAGLE SIGNIT FROM ZEROK COP, HIF CONDUCTED AT THE GRIDS PROVIDED ON CPOF(D1)3 X 81 WP 15 X 120 WP 2 X GBUMORE SIGNIT TRAFFIC, HAWG CONDUCTED A STRAFE RUN X 3NO FURTHER SIGNITEVENT CLOSEDISAF #07-011 AFG20080701n1656


Franske ISAF-styrker beder om støtteild fra F-15 fly, 24 runder hvid fosfor skudt mod oprørsmål
French ISAF troops ask for fire support from F-15 aircraft, 24 rounds of white phosphorus shot against insurgent target

28. juli 2008
TF Chimera received HUMINT threat that FB Kutchbach would receive IDF. They declared Immenant threat and CAS was requested. Dude 11 supported and they vollyed 24x 120mm WP and 17x 120mm HE with no BDA reported. AFG20080728n1685


Her følger eksempler, hvor hvid fosfor tilsyneladende anvendes til markering af oprørsmål:
Here follow examples where white phosphorus apparently was used to mark insurgent targets:

Afghanske og canadiske ISAF-styrker skyder tre gange hvid fosfor
Afghan and Canadian ISAF forces shot three times white phosphorus

15. november 2008
ANA (2/1/205) with CAN OMLT manning SP MUSHAN were engaged by INS with SAF from GR 41R QQ 1671 8367. FF returned fire with SAF. INS fled the area. No casualties or damage reported. UPDATE 1552D* INS engaged with 2 x UNK IDF. FF trying to PID INS FP. Update on category. UPDATE 1904D* FF engaged INS mortar position with 51 x HE, 3 x white phosphorous, 1 x illum, all 81mm mortar. INS broke contact. ***Event closed at 1905D*.1 Killed None(None) Insurgent AFG20081115n1837 (T)


Danske ISAF-styrker skyder to gange hvid fosfor
Danish ISAF troops shoot twice white phosphorus

20. november 2009
S: UNKA: RPG, SAFL: 41R PR 6689 2811T: 0511ZA: REQ CAUPDATE 280830ZNOV09ASOC reported that CAS A01 went kinetic IVO FOB Amhem with 2 x WP marking rockets and 750 rounds 30MM strafe at 41R PR 65976 28504 at 0550Z (iGeoSit shows that this grid corresponds with a non-populated area). The same JTAC & jet went kinetic again at approx 0800Z with 1400 rounds 30MM strafe at 41R PR 65230 27880 (iGeoSit shows that this grid corresponds with a compound). Awaiting ground BDA…
AFG20091128n2852

http://www.information.dk/265853

[Robb]

32. It's a nonsense conclusion. Here, perhaps you own a car?

The conclusion that WP was used as an offensive weapon because it was used often in non-weapon capacities is as absurd as if I were to suggest you regularly drive your car up on the sidewalk to kill pedestrians.

You must, because I happen to know you drive quite often, and in areas where pedestrians regularly use sidewalks. Your car has the capacity to drive on the sidewalk. You must therefore be using your car to kill pedestrians.

...The only reason one would make the above assumption would be if one was not aware of a way your car could be used apart from killing pedestrians.

This is why no other news sources pursued this tale. On display in this story is either a spectacular ignorance, or a willful misrepresentation for whatever reasons. Given the author's beat, I find ignorance quite unlikely.

For your information, a 120mm white phosphorous round is a smoke cartridge. They also come in 60mm, and I believe they fire at 16 rounds per second. An 81mm mortar uses red phosphorous, which is neither here nor there.

[reorg]

33. it wasn't just used "often", it was used "in large quantities

If you launch thirty 120 mm projectiles onto the enemy "grid", suppösedly for just two bombs to find their way to 12 moving targets, it poses the question if you're not actually using the white phosphorous to kill.

I found videos where they launch 120 mm rounds, one after another, about 1 per minute. They are manually inserted into the barrel. 16 120 mm rounds per second doesn't seem likely, and not even practical given the dangers such ammunitions pose, and if you just want to light up the area, don't you think?

When the story about Afghan children being hit by WP bombs broke a few years ago, the US army immediately "suspected" the "Taliban" were to blame, possibly using ammunitions found in some ammunition dumps left behind by the USSR. LOL, probably from way back when Osama was still our guy in Afghanistan. I'm not really surprised that such stories are not even refuted, but ignored, if possible.

[dipsydoodle]

24. claims that up to 147 civilians were killed were grossly exaggerated.

from a couple of years back :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/10/afghanistan-attacks-phosphorus-investigation

Afghanistan (2009)

There are confirmed cases of white phosphorus burns on bodies of civilians wounded in Afghanistan US-Taliban clashes near Bagram. The United States has accused Taliban militants of using white phosphorus weapons illegally on at least 44 occasions.<54> In May 2009, Colonel Gregory Julian, a spokesman for General David McKiernan, the overall commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, confirmed that Western military forces in Afghanistan use white phosphorus in order to illuminate targets or as an incendiary to destroy bunkers and enemy equipment.<55><56> The Afghan government later launched an investigation into the use of white phosphorus munitions.<57>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_phosphorus

Doctors say they found horrific burns on victims of the slaughter a week ago.

They believe they could have been caused by the chemical, which bursts into fierce fire on contact with the air and can stick to flesh and burn deep into it.

While phosphorus can be legitimately used in battle to light up the night sky or create smokescreens, but it is illegal to use it as a weapon.

Human rights groups say its use in populated areas can indiscriminately burn civilians and constitutes a war crime.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1180171/Afghan-president-demands-end-air-raids-Taliban-amid-claims-130-civilian-deaths.html#ixzz1MWZffCT1

[seabeyond]

26. since the strong majority of everything "leaked" is already known, i gotta ask

what is this praising and reward for transparency when we already knew this shit

[dionysus]

27. well if iran says so, it MUST be true!

[reorg]

30. well if the Iranians can read, it doesn't mean everybody else can

A review of documents shows more than 1,100 cases where ISAF has used white phosphorus grenades, rockets and aircraft bombs. Of these, 59 documents have never before been published.

Among the documents there are many reports which suggest that white phosphorus is not only used for legitimate purposes.

According to the conventions, signed among others by Denmark, white phosphorus may only be used outside of densely populated areas. But the leaked war documents from Afghanistan indicate that phosphorus munitions are often used precisely in populated areas including Helmand's Green Zone, where Danish forces are deployed.

... ... ... ... ... ... ...

En gennemgang af dokumenterne viser mere end 1.100 tilfælde, hvor ISAF har anvendt hvid fosfor i granater, raketter og flybomber. Heraf 59 dokumenter, som aldrig tidligere har været offentliggjort.

Blandt dokumenterne er der mange rapporter, der tyder på, at hvid fosfor ikke kun anvendes til lovlige formål.

Ifølge de konventioner, bl.a. Danmark har underskrevet, må hvid fosfor kun anvendes uden for tætbefolkede områder. Men de lækkede krigsdokumenter fra Afghanistan tyder på, at fosforammunition ofte anvendes netop i befolkede områder heriblandt Helmands grønne zone, hvor de danske styrker er indsat.

http://www.information.dk/265853