Slaying the Cable Monster: Why HDMI Brands Don't Matter

[The Straight Story]

Slaying the Cable Monster: Why HDMI Brands Don't Matter

You've probably experienced this when shopping for a new HDTV: A store clerk sidles up and offers to help. He then points you toward the necessary HDMI cables to go with your new television. And they're expensive. Maybe $60 or $70, sometimes even more than $100 (You could buy a cheap Blu-ray player or a handful of Blu-ray discs for that price!). The clerk then claims that these are special cables. Superior cables. Cables you absolutely need if you want the best possible home theater experience. And the claims are, for the vast majority of home theater users, utter rubbish.

The truth is, for most HDTV setups, there is absolutely no effective difference between a no-name $3 HDMI cable you can order from Amazon.com and a $120 Monster cable you buy at a brick-and-mortar electronics store. We ran five different HDMI cables, ranging in price from less than $5 up to more than $100, through rigorous tests to determine whether there's any difference in a dirt-cheap cable and one that costs a fortune.

...

The second thing to know about HDMI cables is that they are almost always expensive when you buy them at brick-and-mortar stores. If you walk into a Best Buy or Radio Shack, you can expect to pay at least $40 for a 6-foot HDMI cable. Even at discount stores like Wal-Mart and Target, the cheapest, most generic HDMI cables retail for $15 and more. Online, you'll do a lot better on prices. Amazon.com and Monoprice.com (the "ancient custom installer's secret") slash even Wal-Mart's HDMI cable prices into tiny bits. Both sites sell several models of HDMI cables for as little as $1.50. These are generally generic HDMI cables, or seldom-heard-of brands, but they work just fine for most HDTV users. We can be certain of this, because we tested them in the PCMag Labs.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2385272,00.asp

[hobbit709]

1. Same deal as the overpriced audio cables.

[TheBigotBasher]

11. Audio not necessarily because by its nature

sound is analogue, even from a digital source, however with HDMI everything is digital, you either get the ones and zeroes or you don't.

No-one would be foolish enough to pay $30 for a usb cable, why pay that for HDMI?

[hobbit709]

23. You'd be surprised at what some places charge for USB cables.

[Webster Green]

19. Totally.

I buy 14 gauge, 2 conductor wire made for outdoor lighting, to use for speaker cable. It's way cheaper than any speaker wire I've found.

[RC]

32. But..., but..., but..., Doesn't all that oxygen in the copper garble the sound?

:evilgrin:

[jmowreader]

49. The sound manages to get around the oxygen in my cables just fine

What garbles the sound for most of y'all is playing it through those miniature speakers that are so popular these days.

Go to eBay, buy a set of JBL 4311 or 4312 studio monitors, hook them to your stereo, and prepare to make yourself an Amar Bose voodoo doll.

[RC]

51. If you can pick up the speaker easily with one hand, it's not good enough.

It needs to be heave for its size. I see people buying speakers on looks alone. Heavy means a Strong magnet which is necessary for decent sound.
Thin wires going in a small hole in the back means keep looking too.

[jmowreader]

53. You also need large drivers, which these new speakers don't have

Audio is a mechanical thing once it leaves the speaker. The way you get good sound is by moving a lot of air. The way you move a lot of air is to use a speaker large enough to deal with the problem. Which, of course, is not what the mini-speaker people are doing.

[sendero]

24. Exactly.

... take something that is very subjective, like sound quality, and convince people that using a "monster" cable will improve your sound. It won't - but lots of dummies fall for it.

[Xithras]

37. Cable quality matters with analog signals.

The question, of course, is whether it matters enough to the individual to justify the cost.

Digital signals are something like morse code...it's a series of on-and-off pulses that carry an encoded message. It doesn't matter whether the designation receives the binary code over a crystal clear or fuzzy connection, because the final message will be the same either way. The transmission medium simply needs to be clear enough for the receiving device to differentiate between the pulses.

Analog signals use a wide spectrum as they broadcast their waves down the wire. Any interference added by the cable will be added to the signal, and cannot be differentiated from the source signal by the playback device. Any static or signal attenuation will simply be added to the audio output, meaning that your output sound quality will be lower than your input sound quality.

How much? That depends. Gold plated cables are probably worthless if you're just dropping a pair of Pioneer box speakers three feet from the side of your TV. A tech with the proper meters could probably tell you exactly how much degradation you're getting, but it's not going to be perceptible to the human ear. On the other hand, if you're trying to install a THX quality surround sound system in your oversized living room with 40 foot runs between the receiver and the speakers, the quality of the wires you use can make a HUGE difference.

Purveyors of cables for both types of installs certainly prey on the ignorant, but it's untrue to claim that there's no difference.

[hobbit709]

40. For 90+% it won't make any difference.

When they try to sell you a $50 set of speaker cables for your 3-1 home boombox that's just some salesperson trying to improve his commission.

[mrdmk]

44. Monster Cables are crap!!!

The only thing that Monster Cables has going for them is a lifetime guarantee.

Yes a good cables and speaker wires do make a difference, if nothing else, your equipment will run cooler...

[caduceus111]

41. Audio cable vs. COAT HANGER

Can you tell the difference between music that passed through a pricey Monster stereo Cable, and a coat hanger? A post from the Audioholics Home Theater Forum and its author says no. His brother ran an experiment on him and four other audio aficionados listening to a new CD from a new group blindfolded. Seven different songs were played, each time heard with the speaker hooked up to Monster Cables, and the other time, hooked up to coat hanger wire. Nobody could determine which was the Monster Cable and which was the coat hanger.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?s=97d4a3c39d247bf955a57b3953326a34&p=15412&postcount=28

[Berserker]

47. I love posts

like this. It proves most of the hype is just pure bullshit

[Elwood P Dowd]

48. The post is bullshit.

Heavy gauge (8-12) solid-core wire like coat hangers and Romex have an audible high frequency roll-off. I've heard it many times over the years, and there is just no way you can't hear that on a high end system. I call BS on the person posting this on that link. Only if you're doing fast A/B switching with people listening to an unfamiliar system in unfamiliar surroundings will that get by.

[caduceus111]

58. OK, How about a LAMP CORD?

A 6-page article by Laurence Greenhill titled "Speaker Cables: Can You Hear the Difference?" was published in Stereo Review magazine on August 1983. It compared Monster cable, 16-gauge wire and 24-gauge wire. The price at that time for a pair of 30-foot lengths of monster cables was $55.00. The cost for 16 gauge heavy lamp cord was $.30/foot or $18.00 and the 24 gauge "speaker wire" was $.03/foot or $1.80

"...So what do our fifty hours of testing, scoring and listening to speaker cables amount to? Only that 16-gauge lamp cord and Monster cable are indistinguishable from each other with music and seem to be superior to the 24 gauge wire commonly sold or given away as 'speaker cable.' Remember, however, that it was a measurable characteristic--higher resistance per foot--that made 24 gauge sound different from the other cables. If the cable runs were only 6 instead of 30 feet, the overall cable resistances would have been lower and our tests would probably have found no audible differences between the three cables. This project was unable to validate the sonic benefits claimed for exotic speaker cables over common 16-gauge zip cord. We can only conclude, therefore, that there is little advantage besides pride of ownership in using these thick, expensive wires"

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#reviewdares

[trumad]

2. I can buy a 6 foot HDMI cable for 6 bucks at TJ Max

You're right---no difference.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

3. Best Buy may have decent prices on basic Electronics but

Their accessories are ALWAYS way overpriced.

[williesgirl]

4. thanks for posting - I didn't know this & my 15 yr old TV is about to die. rec'd

[drm604]

5. Audio (and now video) cables have been a huge scam for years.

They've been targeting audiophiles with bogus claims for cables and other equipment for years.

James Randi, who usually goes after psychic woo and alternative medicine, has addressed this.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1229-barnum-underestimated-the-birthrate-of-suckers.html

[pintobean]

6. I've known this for years

and I tell everybody I know. Some people just fear on-line shopping, and some just don't believe that a 2 dollar cable can be equal to a 45 dollar cable. The same goes for flat panel wall mounts; you can get them on-line for less than 25% of store cost.

[Mnemosyne]

33. And they have been conditioned to believe these things, thanks to our corps M$M.

It's all about conditioning and branding with these fuckers, always. And they are very, very good at it. I wonder where they learned such manipulation techniques, cough - Operation Paperclip - cough - MK-Ultra - cough cough - et al. You know the score, pinto.

Do you watch sports? Have you seen the insignias that flash out back of the screen to the front on the TV during sports replays? Most people that I have asked, that consider themselves 'true' sports fans, simply do not see it at all, even if I shout for them to notice it when it's making its brief flash on the screen. I was stunned and still am! How can they not see it?!

Makes you wonder what we are missing...

[tammywammy]

7. This is good to know

I'm always slightly dazed when I have to purchase cable, so many types/choices.

[madinmaryland]

8. Everytime we get an HD cable box, it comes with an HDMI cable assembly.

I don't think I have ever bought one of those cables.

[davepc]

9. monoprice.com

HDMI for like a buck a foot.

[Mr. Jefferson]

13. I was just getting ready to post the same thing...

Great prices on in the wall speaker cable as well.

[Initech]

38. I bought my tv mount from them - it was like a third the cost of what Costco wanted.

[Codeine]

10. I caught a special on Amazon one day,

bought a dozen of the little buggers for 23 cents each. Even with shipping it was ludicrously cheap.

[kas125]

12. That's exactly what happened when we got a new tv last year.

The guy at the store tried to sell me the hd cable thing for $89.99. I said, no thanks and ordered it for two dollars from the internet. When the Dish guy came to set up the new hd receiver, he asked me where I got the cable and I said I wasn't about to spend what the store asked and I'd ordered it the internet. He said, "Well, I hope you got the twenty dollar one instead of the eighty dollar one, they're all the same." I didn't tell him it wasn't even $20, it was only $2. And it works fine.

[tridim]

14. I know a guy who spends $75 per FOOT for his speaker wire.

I keep telling him he's insane, but he insists that it makes a difference.

It doesn't.

[guyton]

15. it's makes a big difference ...

.. to the guy getting his money!

Of course, high-end ethernet cables at only $9000 ... hmm!

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM

[Tesha]

18. For speaker wire, there's a slight argument.

If you want the best bass (and a nice tight "damping
ratio), you want lots of copper, but your local home
goods store will sell you a wonderful roll of "12-gauge
zip cord speaker wire" for relatively little money.
You could even use Romex, but that's kind of stiff
compared to stranded wire zip cord.

Now if you want to run speaker wire under carpeting,
there are some specialized flat cables that cost
more money, but even then, the stuff isn't that
expensive.

The ridiculous "Litz wire, oxygen-free*, unobtanium-
jacked" speaker wire is another useless expense.

Tesha


*All good copper wire would qualify as "oxygen free".

[Buzz Clik]

21. The enhanced sound he hears is his money vaporizing.

[madrchsod]

27. that`s been tested over and over--

there`s really no difference between cheap speaker wire and the most expensive.

[Tesha]

16. It's a digital bus. It either works or it doesn't.

And no amount of green magic marker (or any other
weird nostrum) applied to any part of it will make
it work any better, get you "brighter colors" or
"clearer sound" or make your TV-watching experience
seem "more lifelike".

You may get slightly better reliability with the
first notch or two up in quality, but after that,
it's all marketing hype.

Tesha

[MineralMan]

17. Yabbut, you need those Mega Cables for "Home Theater,"

doncha know?


You're important. You spend a lot of money on your entertainment. You deserve the BEST your money can buy. We love that here at Big Bucks Electronix! That's why our motto is:

You get what you deserve at Big Bucks!

[tridim]

26. My guess is that actual theaters use bulk (cheap) cables for everything post-projector.

IMax probably specs out expensive speaker cables, even though it's probably not necessary even there.

[jmowreader]

52. Imax probably puts the amplifiers right next to the speakers...

The main reason Imax speaker cable would be expensive is, those guys run so much power to each speaker they're probably using 2/0 service entrance cable to wire the amps to the speakers.

The very finest speaker cable I ever used was obtained by cutting a fucked-up orange extension cord into two lengths and stripping the ends.

[Buzz Clik]

20. I swear that Radio Shack and Best Buy pay for their entire overhead with cable sales.

I wanted a simple mini USB cable, available from Amazon for $2.99. The cheapest available at Radio Shack was $19.99. When I audibly gasped at the price, the Radio Shack sales guy said, "Even with my 20% discount, I'd never buy a cable here."

[lazarus]

25. I used to manage a RadioShack

90%+ mark up on fiber optic cables back 10 years ago. Made a huge profit on that.

Also, we carried three levels of audio cables. I kept the cheap ones in the back room, and would only bring them out if specially asked for. :evilgrin:

[tridim]

28. Man, I'm so glad fiber optic cables didn't catch on.

I own two (from the laser disc and early DVD days) that I paid $60 each for. They are completely useless today.

[EOTE]

57. The SPDIF interface has been around for 2 decades now.

And it doesn't appear to be going anywhere. Any Blu-ray player will come with a digital optical connection and any modern receiver will have an optical input for anything other than completely uncompressed audio. You can get optical cables for about a buck or so from monoprice.com. They're definitely not useless.

[meow mix]

31. they just closed my local radio shack

:(

[myrna minx]

22. My $3 HDMI cables are perfectly fine. I'm grateful to

to have learned this before I was suckered into buying the expensive stuff.

[Initech]

29. I found an online retail store that sells HDMI cables for $5 a piece.

They get the job done. No need to waste $75 on those stupid Monster Cables. I always tell people to avoid Monster Cables since they're expensive and don't do shit over cables that cost less than $10.

[Tim4319]

30. I bought 3 HDMI cables on Ebay for $17.00

I bought 1 25 foot cable and 2 10 foot cables on Ebay for $17.00, plus free shipping!

[TexYellowDogDem]

34. 5 HDMI cables for 12.99 including shipping

From http://www.buy.com

SKU DESCRIPTION

211080749 5 Pack of Super High Resolution HDMI M/M Cables - 6 ft, version 1.3

[tridim]

35. LOL at the "Super High Resolution" part.

Good deal though.

[MinneapolisMatt]

36. Just baought a 6 ft HDMI

at Office Max on clearance for $5! Sweet!

[Incitatus]

39. Best Buy can charge ridiculous prices on some stuff.

I went there to buy a basic audio cable for my mp3 player, they were charging $15. I got one off ebay for a little over $1 including shipping.

[devils chaplain]

42. My hero, James Randi, investigates stuff like this all the time...

Including the ridiculous gold-plated audio cables. It's sickening how much retailers can prey on naiveté.

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1229-barnum-underestimated-the-birthrate-of-suckers.html

[BoWanZi]

50. I love James Randi too!!

[Frank Cannon]

54. Would be great if Mythbusters Adam & Jamie took on this project.

Too bad Monster threatens to sue the shit out of anyone who even looks cross-eyed at them. They are the Scientology of cable manufacturers.

[SidDithers]

43. K&R...

digital signal either gets there or it doesn't.

I've purchased HDMI cables at Tigerdirect, usually at the stores, 'cause I don't like waiting for shipping. They're usually around $10.

Sid

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

45. my girlfriends home theater cost her about $40,000 to build

But every single cable is from this place: http://www.monoprice.com/home/index.asp

[Elwood P Dowd]

46. I retired after 32 years working in the audio industry.

Started buying audio components back in the late 1960s, got into the business in 1976, and after I retired I listed every single audio component (including phono cartridges) I owned over the past 40 years. The total was 312. The most expensive were some electrostatic speakers that cost almost $5,000. They were glorious sounding! That's probably why I don't have any freaking money or much of a retirement today.

There are definite improvements that can be heard with better quality cables, but you have to have higher end components in a room dedicated to to getting the most out of those components. 95% of the people who own a stereo or AV system do not have a dedicated room for this, nor do they have the money invested into the type of audio electronics or speakers that will reveal audible differences in cable or setup changes. My hearing became acute enough over the years to notice these things, but then that's what I did for 10-12 hours a day 6 days a week for over 30 years. I went through A/B tests in my home using familiar equipment and familiar recordings and picked out expensive cables over the cheap shit 100% of the time. Could regular people do it on your typical $1,000 stereo or $2,000 home theater? I doubt it. Now if they lived with some better quality cables for a few months and then you inserted the cheap stuff back into the system, they just might notice it. That's the major flaw with fast A/B testing. It's never performed in familiar surroundings over a long period of time. For some to say a coat hanger sounds just as good as Audioquest Type 4 on Quad electrostatics is total bullshit. I've been through the coat hanger A/B and the 10-gauge Romex A/B, and you would have to be drunk or deaf not to notice the roll-off of the high frequencies.

I also discovered over the years that you can make your own high end cables for a fraction of the cost of the expensive stuff. If someone wanted a cable that rivaled a $200.00 Audioquest, Kimber, or Nordost cable, I would sell them raw cable, RCA jacks, and spade lugs to make their own. A little soldering skill and $40.00 worth of parts could make something that would rival those expensive cables. Then there was the little jewells discovered that cost almost nothing. Home Depot use to sell a 15-foot 12-gauge AC extension chord that you could cut in half, cut off the AC connectors, strip the insulation, and the damn thing sounded almost as good as some speaker wire I sold that cost ten times as much. Sadly, other extension chords I tried did not sound as good. Regular cheap 12-16 gauge zip chord also sounded thin and veiled in comparison to that one particular extension chord. Just remember, that was on my system. Your mileage may vary.

These are just some of my experiences on analogue audio signals. As for HDMI, I have not done any comparisons with them. They are digital, which is a whole different ballgame. I do remember the days of transports, DACS, and the fiber optic debate though. I tried a few and unlike my experiences with analogue speaker wire and interconnects, I couldn't tell enough difference to justify paying for the high priced versions. My video system is in a separate room from my 2- channel audio system and is not really high end or esoteric, so I just use the HDMI that came with my satellite receiver.

[immoderate]

55. With your super sensitive cables and ears...

could you tell what brand of cables they used in the recording studio?

--imm

[toddwv]

56. $20.00 for a SATA cable at Best Buy or $2.09 for 2 online.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex%26%23153%3B+-+2'+Right-Angle+Serial+ATA+2.0+Cable/7002904.p?id=1099391932915&skuId=7002904&st=sata%20cable&cp=1&lp=1

http://www.amazon.com/iMicro-240149-SATA-Data-Cable/dp/B001O4EPHA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305560269&sr=8-1