Greeks say, 'I WON'T PAY'

[marmar]

from the WaPo:



In Greece, austerity kindles deep discontent
By Anthony Faiola, Published: May 13


Athens — Already struggling to avoid a debt default that could seal Greece’s fate as a financial pariah, this Mediterranean nation is also scrambling to contain another threat — a breakdown in the rule of law.

Thousands have joined an “I Won’t Pay” movement, refusing to cover highway tolls, bus fares, even fees at public hospitals. To block a landfill project, an entire town south of Athens has risen up against the government, burning earth-moving equipment and destroying part of a main access road.

The protests are an emblem of social discontent spreading across Europe in response to a new age of austerity. At a time when the United States is just beginning to consider deep spending cuts, countries such as Greece are coping with a fallout that has extended well beyond ordinary civil disobedience.

Perhaps most alarming, analysts here say, has been the resurgence of an anarchist movement, one with a long history in Europe. While militants have been disrupting life in Greece for years, authorities say that anger against the government has now given rise to dozens of new “amateur anarchist” groups, whose tactics include planting of gas canisters in mailboxes and destroying bank ATMs. ................(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/in-greece-austerity-kindles-deep-discontent/2011/05/05/AFUQGy2G_print.html

[xchrom]

1. Recommend

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. k&r

[leftstreet]

3. K&R

[malaise]

4. Soon and very soon

the workers of the world will demand their money.

[LiberalLoner]

5. K&R. Have to wonder how things will play out here in the US when the

really painful cuts are made. Since I live in the DC area, I'll probably be dead. I'll get caught in the cross-fire between a Libertarian and a new unibomber.

It occurs to me I might need some booze tonight. All my posts have been like this today.

[KittyWampus]

28. rent a couple of comedies.

[Cid_B]

6. So they are demanding more stuff...

... and refuse to contribute to what they get so far? Good plan...

[Fumesucker]

7. I'm sure the average Grecian has made out like a bankster..

:eyes:

[snagglepuss]

13. A number of articles have been written by left leaning Greeks about tax avoidence

as a matter of course for Greeks. It's a big problem.

[Fumesucker]

15. It's a big problem in the USA too..

GE had $14.2 billion with a "b" profits and paid zero with a "z" in taxes last year.

[snagglepuss]

17. But the US govt comes done on the 'little guy' so taxes however inequitably

get collected whereas most Greeks avoid paying taxes yet demand govt services. Everyone needs to pay taxes.

[Fumesucker]

18. Umm.. Everyone in the US *doesn't* pay taxes..

And the wealthier you are the less likely you are to pay taxes, recall that Warren Buffett pays a lower rate than his secretary.

What seems to upset a lot of people about Greece is that the little people have taken to acting like the wealthy when it comes to taxes.

[snagglepuss]

32. As I stated the US govt comes down on the little guy and tax collection is

inequitable. The solution is not to act like wealthy a**holes but insist govts to clamp down on all tax avoiders.

[marmar]

8. Exactly what "more" are they demanding?

nt

[Cid_B]

12. I may have misunderstood...

I thought they were protesting cutbacks and austerity measures and they would like the previous levels of service and/or "stuff"

[Fumesucker]

19. Good thing no one ever does that here in the USA, eh?

*Our* financial house is in such good order that we can point fingers at the rest of the world.

[Cid_B]

20. A few things

1) Since we dumped 8 billion into their bailout I would feel absolutely justified. If your Great Aunt Hildegrund loans you $2000, don't be surprised if you hear from her a bit more often.

2) The US isn't actually complaining. This is just a bunch of hissyspits of electrons on the internet.

3) Is that the claim now? One must have a perfect system with a perfect history before even having an opinion?

[Fumesucker]

22. I'm just thinking about motes, beams and eyes..

You know, how easy it is to see the mote in someone else's eye while ignoring the beam in your own.

[marmar]

21. How is that more? They just want back what was taken from them.

nt

[Cid_B]

24. That's math...

I could work it out with pennies or apples but I think you see the point.

[provis99]

10. wealthy Greeks ripped off all other Greeks.

How is that demanding more stuff, except in the fevered imaginations of DINOS.

[Cid_B]

14. See post 12

[lunatica]

37. Your solution stinks

They should be grateful for what they have just like Olive Twist.

[salvorhardin]

9. The WaPo lets slip that Keynesian economics is valid? Someone will pay for that gaff.

The rolling back of social safety nets in Europe began more than a year ago, as countries from Britain to France to Greece moved to cut social benefits and slash public payrolls, to address mounting public debt. At least in the short term, the cuts have held back economic growth and job creation, exacerbating the social pain.

[Starry Messenger]

11. k&r

[TheKentuckian]

16. They need to apply some heat to the bankers

[GliderGuider]

27. What's the best heat source to use on a banker? nt

[socialist_n_TN]

31. Something to do with the pocketbook..........

In the wealthy capitalist states, it has to do with withholding our labor. If we don't work, they don't make money off of our labor. They don't like that.

[GliderGuider]

34. So we're not talking about necklacing them, then?

I guess that's a good thing.

To be clear, I'm all in on the "Politics of Refusal", on many fronts.

[socialist_n_TN]

35. Well not yet.........

The problem with getting rid of them is that another takes their place and the system goes on. That's where the anarchists throughout the history of the class struggle go wrong. We've got to necklace the SYSTEM, not just individual cogs IN the system.

Yep. RESIST!

[GliderGuider]

38. +1

Well said, brother.

[Shagbark Hickory]

23. Is everyone taking notes?

[GliderGuider]

26. Mmmmhmmm.... nt

[GliderGuider]

25. The anarchists are coming

The new avengers

A radical minority is energizing the anarchist movement, a loose network of anti-establishment groups that sprung up in force in the 1970s in opposition to Greece’s former military junta. Over the next two decades, anarchists would assassinate Richard Welch, a CIA station chief in Athens, as well as Greek politicians and a British military attache.

Since then, experts say, the economic crisis has helped the movement thrive, with anarchists positioning themselves as society’s new avengers. Long a den of anarchists, the graffiti-blanketed Exarchia neighborhood is alive anew with dissent. Nihilist youths are patrolling the local park, preventing police from entering and blocking authorities from building a parking lot on the site. On one evening at a local cafe, an anarchist group was broadcasting anti-government messages via a clandestine radio station using a laptop and a few young recruits.

For some Greeks, like Nikos Galanos, a 20-year-old chain-smoking in an Exarchia cafe, the anarchist movement has become an outlet for anger. Last year, during a wave of government cutbacks, Galanos’s mother lost her job as a guard at the ancient Acropolis perched above Athens. His father, also a government worker, saw his salary slashed by 15 percent and must now labor more years before meeting the retirement age, boosted last year to an average age of 63.

“I don’t support violence for violence’s sake, but violence is a response to the violence the government is committing against society,” Galanos said. He later added, “It is now hard for any of us to see a future here. I feel it’s my duty to fight against the system.”

Economic breakdown breeds radicalism as the people watch their "leaders" decimate their future. Expect a global resurgence of anarchism over the next couple of decades as more and more people decide they have no alternatives left and nothing left to lose by taking the bankers into their own hands.

[socialist_n_TN]

30. "Economic breakdown breeds radicalism......"

True. I've seen it here in this country and on this forum. In addition to having their future's decimated, the people also see thier "representatives" IGNORING their will on issues and siding with the wealthy elites OVER the will of the people. This will also lead to radicalization.

Yes, there will be a global resurgence of anarchism, but there will ALSO be a global resurgence of revolutionary anti capitalists who are NOT anarchists. This is where the hope for a real change should be placed. Anarchists are all about tearing down. Revolutionary anticapitalist groups are about building up too. We can make a united front with anarchists in some areas, but ONLY in some areas.

[GliderGuider]

33. An interesting thing about "anarchism"

When we use the word "anarchy", we immediately associate it with violence. In fact the word itself has no such connotation, as it simply means "no rulers". A commune run on egalitarian principles using barter and consensus decision-making is as eligible for the description as a group of young thugs mailing letter bombs. The problem is only prosperity enables the former sort of anarchy (like happened in the '60s) while economic breakdown facilitates the latter.

[L0oniX]

29. A glimps of our future here.

[lunatica]

36. Greece leads the way. The rest will follow

Sad to say, but sooner or later the serf will rise up against the Lord.

[socialist_n_TN]

39. Yep. This is an inevitability.

:thumbsup:

[LuckyLib]

40. Greece has a completely chaotic financial system and it's people from doctors

to the local businessperson avoid paying taxes at all costs. Because the government doesn't crack down on tax evaders, EVERYONE is in on it. But they want the benefits of a society that functions as if it actually had revenue. Vanity Fair had an amazing article in 2010 that explored the mess. The country is in financial free-fall.

<snip> That was the good news. The long-term picture was far bleaker. In addition to its roughly $400 billion (and growing) of outstanding government debt, the Greek number crunchers had just figured out that their government owed another $800 billion or more in pensions. Add it all up and you got about $1.2 trillion, or more than a quarter-million dollars for every working Greek. Against $1.2 trillion in debts, a $145 billion bailout was clearly more of a gesture than a solution. And those were just the official numbers; the truth is surely worse. “Our people went in and couldn’t believe what they found,” a senior I.M.F. official told me, not long after he’d returned from the I.M.F.’s first Greek mission. “The way they were keeping track of their finances—they knew how much they had agreed to spend, but no one was keeping track of what he had actually spent. It wasn’t even what you would call an emerging economy. It was a Third World country.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/10/gre...