Dominique Strauss-Kahn Has Alibi, French Media Report

[Hannah Bell]

According to Le Figaro, generally right-leaning and one of Paris’ largest newspapers, DSK’s lawyers have reconstructed his schedule and can prove both that he checked out of his room before the attacks supposedly took place and that he was having lunch with his daughter at the time. (Read IMF Chief Denied Bail As Legal Problems Now Brew In France).

A double sexual attack was thought to have occurred around 1:00 PM on the 28 floor of the Sofitel New York, deputy commissioner and spokesman for the NYPD, Paul J. Browne, explained to reporters. The French daily, though, notes that sources have put DSK’s check out time closer to noon, with center-right daily Liberation citing police sources claiming the IMF chief handed in his keys at exactly 12:28 PM.

According to Le Figaro, generally right-leaning and one of Paris’ largest newspapers, DSK’s lawyers have reconstructed his schedule and can prove both that he checked out of his room before the attacks supposedly took place and that he was having lunch with his daughter at the time. (Read IMF Chief Denied Bail As Legal Problems Now Brew In France). After leaving his room, DSK is said to have gone to lunch with his daughter, a graduate student at Columbia University.

That same information, which, if proven, would constitute the IMF chief’s innocence, is undermined by information gathered by Liberation in New York. The daily, founded by philosopher and playwright Jean Paul Sartre, had Paul Browne, NYPD spokesman cited above, saying “”we said initially that was around 1PM, in fact it was closer to noon.” If the information proved to be accurate, DSK would have had about 28 minutes to sexually attack the 32-year-old and check out of his hotel.

http://blogs.forbes.com/afontevecchia/2011/05/16/dominique-strauss-kahn-has-alibi-french-media-report/

[yellowcanine]

1. Supposedly there is DNA, which could complicate any alibi.

Only defense might be a claim of consensual sex if that is the case.

[Hannah Bell]

3. it would complicate things, as dna can come from hair, skin, a drinking glass, etc.

i.e. the fact of dna does not equal the fact of "sperm" -- which i am assuming is what many people assume when they hear "there's dna".

[yellowcanine]

5. Well the article suggests that a forensic exam of the woman

confirmed her account. Not clear what the DNA was but supposedly DSK was caught on a security cam leaving the hotel in a hurry - which could undermine the timing of the alibi. I would not be surprised that there is physical evidence of some sort placing DSK in the room with the woman - certainly if her account is correct there probably is. She may have scratched him and gotten his skin under her nails - it doesn't take much.

http://www.dnainfo.com/20110516/midtown/head-of-imf-ordered-held-without-bail-amid-sex-attack-charges

[Hannah Bell]

8. the account at your link doesn't say that exactly.

"He allegedly jumped out of his bathroom at the Hotel Sofitel on West 44th Street in the nude around 1:30 p.m. Saturday"

about an hour after he supposedly turned his keys in at the desk...


The camera evidence:

Strauss-Kahn was caught on security camera leaving the Sofitel "in a hurry," prosecutors said.

doesn't show him with the woman. leaving "in a hurry" isn't evidence.


The forensic evidence:

"The woman submitted DNA samples after the attack, and the sexual forensic exam "corroborate her account," McConnell said."

i await the evidence.



Read more: http://www.dnainfo.com/20110516/midtown/head-of-imf-ordered-held-without-bail-amid-sex-attack-charges#ixzz1MZhcW4Jl

[yellowcanine]

20. Point is that the video would establish time which could be critical to any alibi.

Leaving in a hurry can indeed be evidence if the person is also disheveled and if they left personal articles behind when supposedly checking out of the hotel - as at least one account suggests.

Yes, await the evidence, but so far it is not looking very good for DSK.

[ljm2002]

25. Presumably the camera will have recorded a time...

...which will either tend to support his alibi, or not. If he says he checked out at noon to go have lunch with his daughter, and the camera shows him hurrying away at 1:30, that would not tend to support his alibi. If the camera shows him moseying out at 12:05 or so, that would tend to support it.

I'm guessing his alibi will turn out to be flimsy. But we shall see.

[LisaL]

30. According to LE he checked out at 12:28.

The maid allegedly entered his hotel suit at ~ 12:00 pm.

[ljm2002]

45. Okay, so my times were a bit off...

...we're just speculating here anyway. :-) In any case, there are various bits of evidence, of which the camera is one, and it will be relevant as to the time and also his demeanor and whether he left casually or not. Of course, for sociopaths, they can remain calm when a regular person would be sweating bullets. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I don't think the NYPD would arrest a man of his stature with flimsy evidence, and of course hauling him off an airplane and keeping him incarcerated without bail are real eyebrow-raisers as well.

Now whether he was set up? Stranger things have happened, that's for sure, especially when you are talking about the high level political world. But if I were a betting person, I'd bet that in this case, where there's smoke there's fire. Especially with the two French women who have now come forward. He sounds like a serial offender.

But I readily admit we don't know and it could be a setup. That's why we have trials. He'll get his day in court.

[LisaL]

49. Supposedly police have blood and DNA evidence.

We have to wait and see whose DNA and blood that is.

[Hannah Bell]

53. please link the report of "blood".

[LisaL]

55. Here.

"Law enforcement sources told FoxNews.com that blood found on bed sheets in the luxury suite in Manhattan’s Sofitel Hotel, where Strauss-Kahn stayed Friday night, could support the sexual assault claim of the alleged victim."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/16/imf-chief-held-without-bail/#ixzz1MZjuGiwX


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/16/imf-chief-held-without-bail/#ixzz1MZhbl4u8

[Hannah Bell]

56. do you have a source other than fox news?

[JDPriestly]

18. She could have his DNA if she was in his room and attacked by

someone else in places he had been. There are other ways she could have contact with his DNA. And there might be reasons other than a sexual attack that his DNA could be found on her.

I would not say that her story is completely unbelievable. It could be true, but it is a bit difficult to believe. If her DNA is on him or if he has scratches or bruises in specific areas of his body, then her story would be more credible.

[seabeyond]

34. oh my fg. amazing. sickly amazing. to work so hard to excuse this. christ. nt

[woo me with science]

41. We don't know what's true either way. I would not express outrage at considering possibilities.

To be fair, there are very good reasons someone might have wanted to frame him. And it is a tremendously stupid and self-destructive act for someone in his position.

He may very well have done it. There is a possibility he didn't.

I don't hear anyone excusing anything. I hear people saying we don't know what happened, and that is the truth.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LisaL]

44. Who else is going to be in his $3,000 per night hotel room?

I doubt that homeless people are just able to sneak in and out of that hotel.

[Hannah Bell]

2. and since, per sources here at DU, he came out of the shower nude, tried to force her to give him a

blow job, then chased her down the hall naked and trapped her in some enclosed space -- a sequence of events i would imagine would take *at least* 15 minutes...that gives him maybe 13 minutes to dress & get down to the desk.

assuming he was already packed & just decided to force someone to give him a quick blow job ('rape') before meeting his daughter for lunch.

[seabeyond]

7. gettin out pretty fast leavin phone and other stuff behind. heart attack waitin to happen. nt

[Hannah Bell]

10. he's alleged to have had several cell phones, "left-behind" phone something like a pre-paid.

[LisaL]

22. He wanted it back. It was reported he called the hotel and asked

them to deliver it to him. Upon which hotel told police where he was.

[Hannah Bell]

52. yes, there have been several contradictory reports about the cell phone.

[ljm2002]

29. If it was a pre-paid cell phone...

...then why call the hotel and ask them to retrieve it? That doesn't seem likely to me.

[Hannah Bell]

58. no, it doesn't. however, i read a report saying he had several cell phones.

there have been multiple reports with contradictory information.

currently we're engaged in sorting the wheat from the chaff.

[Obamanaut]

115. "...i read a report saying..." is *really" conclusive. That closes the argument? nt

[leftstreet]

4. LOL check out this quote

:hi:

You probably already know French media pundits are speculating on a setup.

But in spite of the seriousness, this just cracked me up (my bold):

As for the notion that Sarkozy might be behind some nefarious plot, one of his advisers says privately that’s not only untrue as a matter of fact, but would be unlikely as a matter of strategy: “This is far too early for him to take out a main opponent.”

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/dominique-strauss-set-up-2011-5#ixzz1MZenYX60

[seabeyond]

6. thought to have occurred around 1:00 PM

doesnt sound like they are too set on the time....

i will wait on this.

[Hannah Bell]

11. link in this article says the alleged attack was at 1:30.

no, it doesn't sound like they know what time the attack was.

which doesn't seem right, since she supposedly went & told immediately afterwards...

http://www.dnainfo.com/20110516/midtown/head-of-imf-ordered-held-without-bail-amid-sex-attack-charges

[suffragette]

9. The NYPD changed the time they had initially reported?

[Hannah Bell]

12. that's a little odd, isn't it? and this paper says the attack happened around 1:30:

http://www.dnainfo.com/20110516/midtown/head-of-imf-ordered-held-without-bail-amid-sex-attack-charges

[suffragette]

13. It is odd. This article has the police called to the hotel at 1:30pm

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/judge-denies-bail-to-imf-chief-in-sexual-assault-case-106200
John Eligon, Mosi Secret, The New York Times, Updated: May 16, 2011 22:31 IST
The law enforcement official said that the police were called to the hotel about 1:30 on Saturday, but that when they arrived, Mr. Strauss-Kahn had already checked out. At some point, Mr. Strauss-Kahn called the hotel and said that his cellphone was missing. Detectives then coached hotel employees to tell him, falsely, that they had the telephone. According to the law enforcement official, Mr. Strauss-Kahn told them he was at Kennedy Airport about to get on a plane.



Also, note the added details about the cellphone. Didn't 1st reports indicate he left in such a hurry, he left his cellphone at the hotel? He clearly left it somewhere, given that he called the hotel about it, but wouldn't police have it at that point if he had left it there?

[Hannah Bell]

17. and if he'd left the hotel in such a guilty hurry because he'd just raped someone --

& was trying to (as other reports have implied) beat a guilty retreat out of the country -- would you call about a cell phone?

i wouldn't.

[suffragette]

32. Many things not adding up

and many of these should be trackable.

Video security in the hotel
Checkout time (verification of credit card)
Lunch (possible verification of credit card)
Driver pickup


On the timeline, did he eat lunch and return to the hotel? Or go from there to airport?
Did the driver pick him up at the hotel?

Speaking of timeline, interesting that a UMP supporter apparently reported this on twitter before media did.

[LisaL]

37. Nowdays a lot of hotels do automatic check out.

I am not sure if he had to actually do anything to check out.
But presumably there are cameras in the lobby to verify when he left.

[seabeyond]

38. sheeeit, point. i cant remember the last time we actually checked out. and though

upscale hotels, not nearly as upscale as what he stayed at.

[suffragette]

48. Didn't realize that

Still, the other items should show a timeline

[Hannah Bell]

59. i believe $3000 a night luxury hotels often do things "old-school".

[suffragette]

71. Apparently the suite was $525

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/16/501364/main20063268.shtml
The newspaper Le Monde, citing people close to Strauss-Kahn, said he had reserved the $3,000-a-night suite for one night during a quick trip to have lunch with his daughter, who is studying in New York. It was not immediately clear who paid for Strauss-Kahn's personal travel but he and his wife, an heiress to a renowned art dealer, have extensive personal wealth. IMF sources told CNBC that the hotel expenses were exaggerated and were actually $525, which Strauss-Kahn paid personally.


I've seen differing accounts, some stating he was upgraded because the higher priced room was empty, some speculating he received a discount.

The $3,000 price is still dominating reports, though.

[Hannah Bell]

76. or maybe the imf doesn't want to admit they spend that kind of money on hotels.

who knows?

we sure don't, and even if we called the hotel they wouldn't tell us.

we're completely dependent on what we read in the paper.

[suffragette]

85. That may be the case

or it could be part of the pattern of focusing on the Porsche, the suits and now the suite price.

Reminds me of all the focus on Gore's large house.

[Hannah Bell]

87. could be.

[Hannah Bell]

51. yeah, that was another interesting point. the first *two* reports, actually.

[suffragette]

72. Are you referring to the one by Arnaud Dassier?

He seems to have quite the resume.

[Hannah Bell]

77. can't remember the name. just read first report was a twitterer who later

said he was on the scene or something similar.

then a second report by someone picking up the first twitter post -- & yeah, there was something questionable about the second reporter, but i don't remember the details.

what about arnaud dassier? is he a sarkhozy guy?

[suffragette]

83. The 1st one is a student who is a UMP (Sarko's party) supporter

Most reports say he got the info from a friend at the hotel. The NYT says it came from a friend of a friend of a friend.
That's Jonathan Pinet.

The retweet was from Arnaud Dassier. He ran Sarkozy's internet campaign in 2007 and is supposedly behind the the recent story about the Porsche.

Here's a google translation about the Porsche part:
In fact, it took a nothing for it becomes a "case": a photograph, released in May 3, Le Parisien , shows the couple Strauss-Kahn, who was in Paris on April 28, when the snapshot before a car from Porsche. A blogger rather directed to the right, Emery Doligé, takes the shot on Twitter . Arnaud Dassier, "communicating" and linchpin of the campaign web Nicolas Sarkozy in 2007, follows. The two men are "up" information on the microblogging network throughout the day. The next day the reporter Hervé Gattegno Point in fact a chronicle on RTL . The case is launched.


Here's the original link:
http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2011/05/15/comment-l-avenir-de-dsk-s-est-soudain-assombri_1522356_823448.html


From NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/17/world/europe/17france.html
Another question raised was about the timing of the flood of Twitter posts around the scandal, with the first one reportedly sent by a French student who is a member of President Nicolas Sarkozy’s center-right party.

It was at 4:59 p.m. New York time that J_Pinet posted this message on Twitter: “A friend in the United States just told me that DSK was arrested by police in a hotel an hour ago.”

Twenty-four minutes later, a post by Arnaud Dassier, who ran Mr. Sarkozy’s online election campaign in 2007, spread the news further, apparently before any New York newspaper. Mr. Dassier is a shareholder in the Web site Atlantico.fr, which Mr. Strauss-Kahn’s allies accused this month of disseminating photographs of him and his wife getting into a Porsche in a bid to tarnish his reputation with common voters.

[Hannah Bell]

84. interesting.

[suffragette]

89. Here's a bit more

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1105113#1110237

[yellowcanine]

39. You are trying to assign rational thinking to someone accused of an irrational act.

Besides, if he is guilty, he likely thinks he is somewhat above the law and doesn't really think he will ever be caught or he might have wrongly believed that the police could not remove him from the plane.

[LisaL]

14. The timeline-the maid allegedly entered room around noon.

Not 1 pm.

"SATURDAY ABOUT NOON EDT (1600 GMT) - A 32-year-old maid entered Strauss-Kahn's suite, room 2806, which she apparently thought was unoccupied."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/17/strausskahn-timeline-idUSN1628497620110517

[Hannah Bell]

15. the timeline keeps changing.

Paul Browne, NYPD spokesman: “”we said initially that was around 1PM, in fact it was closer to noon.”


it seems to have changed after reports that dsk had turned in his keys before 1.

there are also media reports that the attack happened around 1:30.

i don't know why it's so hard to pin down the time, since reportedly she sought assistance shortly after it happened.

the time would be in the police report.

what's so hard?

[seabeyond]

19. if this is the true police report, it says "about 12:00"

http://www.scribd.com/doc/55574679/NY-Criminal-Court-Filing-Dominique-Strauss-Kahn

[Hannah Bell]

23. and if this is the true police chief, he admits they originally said "1:00".

Paul Browne, NYPD spokesman: “”we said initially that was around 1PM, in fact it was closer to noon.”

but the document you posted isn't a "police report". the police report is written at the time the police come to the scene.

what you posted is a criminal court filing.

[seabeyond]

27. ok, so.... it will come out.

and you will get the answers. but to back this man up and the expense of excusing a pig

floors me

i am off to bed

[Hannah Bell]

47. lol. as usual, complete misinterpretation of my motives.

[yellowcanine]

64. The changing timeline means little. Media reports and what police spokes people say are not

testimony. It is useless to try to make everything add up at this point. People don't note the time and write it down when something is going down. There will be plenty of opportunity to establish the correct timelines after a proper investigation.

[Hannah Bell]

86. but when the police are called to the scene, THEY NOTE & WRITE DOWN THE TIME.

or are supposed to.

they also ask questions & note the approximate time the incident is supposed to have happened.

& since the woman reportedly ran to her coworkers, then called police, the time when they arrived would have been shortly after the alleged attack.

the police report is part of the "proper investigation". a critical piece, in fact.

[yellowcanine]

105. Yep - but not necessarily part of the media reports or even what police spokes persons say.

So trying to establish timelines at this point are kind of meaningless imo. And police spokes people sometimes deliberately lie about details in order to smoke out a suspect and get them to make a false alibi claim.

[Hannah Bell]

106. yes, there are many possible dirty tricks such as that. but presumably

if someone is actually involved in the crime he knows the time frame in which it took place.

when he is arrested on the same day, especially.

[yellowcanine]

108. Well yes, but he may not know what info the police have. He might think the woman got the time

wrong and try to take advantage of that by constructing the alibi accordingly.

[Hannah Bell]

113. yeah, yeah, sure. he "might". you know, or he might have phoned for a whore

dressed as a maid and mistaken the chambermaid for the whore.

equally plausible.

or maybe a "friend" called and said he was sending a surprise.

lots of possibilities!

[JDPriestly]

16. 28 minutes to sexually assault a maid, check out of his hotel and

then casually meet his young daughter for lunch?

You got to be kidding me. That does not sound believable.

It may be true, but you would have to bring in some solid facts to convince me.

This story has not rung true from the get-go.

A 62-year old nude man chases a fully dressed, 32-year-old hotel maid down a hall and into a room and then forces her to have some form of sex which the press is too prudish to explicitly identify?

[Hannah Bell]

21. a very rich 62-year-old man: who would have no trouble getting a blow job from any number of women -

or buying a blow job, for that matter.

i too find it hard to believe he was suddenly seized by the desire to rape on the day he was scheduled to leave the us, in-between showering, check-out, & meeting his daughter.

[LisaL]

24. Well that logic doesn't make sense.

[Hannah Bell]

28. it doesn't? why is that?

[LisaL]

31. Because using that ridiculous logic no rich man would ever rape

anyone. After all they could just pay for it.

[Hannah Bell]

43. if that's your deduction i don't think much of your powers.

[seabeyond]

26. right... i am sure women are falling all over themselves to give him a bj... along with buselini

who has to pay for it.

the great seducer, the ladys man.... an ugly old fart that felt he was privileged and deserving adn hell....

any number of women would want to have the pleasure of giving him a bj

you know

argue the case ect... dont believe it. but that is just creepy

[Hannah Bell]

33. i'm sure, in fact, that they are. there are plenty of women ready to blow big money, power, status.

for free, for money.

it's simply a fact.

and he's not particularly ugly, imo.



this is ugly:



but andrea mitchell was willing to blow him. he's rich & powerful.

[seabeyond]

35. he is fuckin old, saggin and ugly. and fat. really? really. geez. ya.... when women are paid

they will do whatever he wants

wow

[Hannah Bell]

40. matter of taste, then. 62 = "old"? i don't think so. i've known women in their 30's

who dated such men.

saggy? i don't see much, & so what?

fat?

i don't think so.

fact is, there are many, many, many cases of younger women who had sexual relations with men in their 60s. for love, for money, for sexual attraction, for closeness to power, because they were drunk, whatever.

we both know it. i can give you a list as long as my arm.

so i have no fucking idea why you're arguing the point.

[seabeyond]

111. wow... you even defend to the point of saying 62 is not old. lmafo. geezus. at want point is old

ah ha

what a fuckin joke.

ya

sags and bags baby.

and ugly old fart thinking he is entitled

young wnating old? money, baby

[Hannah Bell]

118. ugh.

[EOTE]

135. A day's not complete for you if you don't insult some man's looks, is it?

You must be awfully insecure about your own aesthetics considering how often it happens. It's fairly disgusting. Like your "sags and bags" don't make others nauseous?

[seabeyond]

136. because to let stand women are falling on knees to give this man bj works for apologists. nt

[EOTE]

137. Your response was exactly as cogent as I thought it would be. NT

[LisaL]

36. And there are rich men convicted of rape.

What is your point exactly?

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yellowcanine]

50. You are confusing rape with sex. They are not the same thing.

A person who rapes is getting something he cannot get from sex, paid for or otherwise. It is a pathological and not something that can be explained in the context of consensual sex.

[Hannah Bell]

61. yes, yes. thanks for the armchair psychology.

how many rapists start in their 60s?

[yellowcanine]

68. And how would we know that particular fact? If he is a rapist, it likely is not the first time.

Seems to me you are doing a lot of armchair analysis yourself.

Rich men in their sixties don't rape......that is a pretty big leap, imo.

[Hannah Bell]

79. never said they *don't* rape.

yes, if he's a rapist, it's likely *not* the first time.

and?

[yellowcanine]

107. So why the question,"how many rapists start in their 60s?"

[Hannah Bell]

109. forgive me, i'm a little slow. my question was in response to this post by you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1116248&mesg_id=1116877


i have no clue why you think it needs explaining. and i'm not going to get into some stupid discussion about it with someone who has no interest in the answer, either.

[Dorian Gray]

116. Who said anything about him starting

if he did rape this woman, he's probably done it before and gotten away with it. Hence the totally gobsmacking way in which this was done this time.

[JDPriestly]

93. yellowcanine, you are hitting an interesting point.

In fact that was the first thing I found odd when I began to read the reports on this case.

This Strauss-Kahn (hope I have his name right) has a reputation as a seducer. And his photo suggests that he is a person who wants to be admired and adored for more than just his ability to be brutal.

In my experience (which is lengthy but far from universal, and mostly based on observation from afar, I admit), men who like to seduce enjoy the interaction of conquering a woman through ruse and charm. Usually, they learn fairly young to at least have a certain air of shyness and to have timing in chatting up and persuading the ladies. To seduce you must wait and then move at the right time.

On the other hand, rapists and serial harassers have a certain meanness in their interactions with women. They seek the thrill of feeling extremely dominant, of overpowering the woman physically. The mental, psychological, seductive game of it is not so gratifying to them.

I suppose it would be possible for a man to have two sides on this, but it would not be extremely common.

This guy looks like a serial seducer, very conscious of being attractive.

He may have chased the woman down a hall, and he may have had physical contact with her, but it may have been for a very different reason. What if he caught her going through his things? There could be a lot of explanations.

I would not expect a French man to kiss a maid in a hotel as a greeting or goodbye. But the French are very free with hugs and this strange series of kisses you get on each side of your face. I finally asked one of my dear friends who was French to please just stop giving me that treatment. She understood that too much of that made me uncomfortable. There was at least one person who did not feel offended. I am a hugger and a naturally affectionate person, but the French can really overdo it. I don't think that is what happened, but you never know.

And maybe her story is absolutely true. It just doesn't seem believable to me.

[LisaL]

100. The french journalist who accused him of an attack

didn't claim he tried to seduce her through ruse and charm.

[LisaL]

46. Police supposedly have blood and DNA evidence.

"Law enforcement sources told FoxNews.com that blood found on bed sheets in the luxury suite in Manhattan’s Sofitel Hotel, where Strauss-Kahn stayed Friday night, could support the sexual assault claim of the alleged victim."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/16/imf-chief-held-without-bail/#ixzz1MZhbl4u8


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/16/imf-chief-held-without-bail/?test=latestnews

[leftstreet]

57. Bizarre

Not your link - just this whole thing

If any of these accounts are true, to any extent, what did he think would happen when she left? She'd just go clean another rooom while he went on about his business? Very weird.

Strauss-Kahn emerged from a room naked, according to Browne, and ran after her down the hallway of the suite.

"He grabbed the victim's chest without consent, attempted to remove her pantyhose" and forcibly grabbed her between her legs, the complaint said. He also forced her to perform oral sex on him, Assistant District Attorney John McConnell said at Monday's arraignment.

The 32-year-old woman said Strauss-Kahn pulled her into a bedroom and started attacking her, police said. She fought him off, she told investigators, but he then dragged her into the bathroom and forced himself on her.

Afterward, the employee ran to the front desk, Browne said. Hotel staff alerted New York police.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/05/16/new.york.imf.questioning/?hpt=C1

[LisaL]

60. Well there is a french journalist who claims he attempted to

attack her years ago. She never went to the police to report it.
So presumably he could have expected that this woman would not report it.

[Hannah Bell]

66. yeah, she claims. but didn't report.

and he committed adultery too.

villain.

[LisaL]

69. Her own mother claims she persuaded the daughter not to report it.

And while she did not report it to the police, she did tell that story years ago, so it's not like she just came out with it now.

[Hannah Bell]

75. maybe she told the story. without evidence, i.e. because she didn't report

it & allow the police to come & take evidence, it remains a story.

people tell stories all the time.

if there are a lot of stories, you begin to suspect they're true.

if there aren't, you tend to doubt.

rapists tend to make a habit of it.

fyi, this is what the court filing says dsk is alleged to have done:

1. prevented maid from leaving
2. grabbed her breasts
3. tried to pull down her panty hose (unsuccessfully)
4. forcibly grabbed her genital area (apparently through pantyhose)
5. forcibly made contact with his penis & maid's mouth twice

He is not being charged with rape.

Charges =

criminal sexual act (1st degree)
attempted rape (1st & 3rd)
sexual abuse (1st & 3rd)
forcible touching

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/16/nyregion/20110516-Strauss-Kahn-complaint.html?ref=nyregion

so whatever blood was or wasn't on the bed, it wasn't blood from forced vaginal or anal intercourse.

[LisaL]

102. Just because she didn't report it to the police, doesn't mean it

didn't happen. In case you don't know, a lot of women do not report.
And her mother witnessed her daughter after the alleged attack and did not want the daughter to file a police report, because it could affect her career.

"Mansouret said she arrived about an hour and a half later to find her daughter still locked in the car and looking "roughed up." The heel of one shoe was broken, Mansouret recalled to CNN."
http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/05/16/france.imf.2002.allegation/index.html?hpt=T1

[Hannah Bell]

104. and just because she talked about it later doesn't mean it did.

the point is, which you seem determined to avoid dealing with, she didn't go to the police at the time, no hard evidence was collected, so now it will eternally remain in the realm of "he said, she said".

sorry, if she didn't talk about it at the time out of "fear for her career," i'm not interested today. because there's no proof except her say-so.

[yellowcanine]

142. Well she was 22 at the time and a close friend of his daughter. Very understandable, imo.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/journalist-tristane-banon-makes-further-sexual-assault-allegation-against-dominique-strausskahn-2284995.html

Her mother talked her out of pressing charges. This is an age old story and it rings very true for me. For reasons of family and friendship a victimized young woman is persuaded to keep quiet.

Unfortunately for DSK her testimony will likely be admissible in court (unless his lawyers get really lucky) and she appears to be a very credible witness who will likely convince a jury that DSK is capable of sexually assaulting women. That will go a long way toward removing "reasonable doubt."

His lawyers better figure out a way to keep this from going to trial or he is going to be spending most of the rest of his life in prison.

[Hannah Bell]

65. yes, it's very weird. but i guess, per duers here, we should just assume dsk =

evil crazy rapist overcome with the desire to rape & unable to control himself.

but for some reason, though he tried, he was unable to rape vaginally or anally & had to satisfy himself with "touching" & forcing a blow job.

per the court document.

nah, doesn't make sense.

[leftstreet]

73. I wanna know how she managed to escape

Every account so far has a vague 'eventually she managed to escape' thing

Did she knock him out? Shoot him? Say "LOOK! Over there!" and run ??

weird

[Hannah Bell]

80. yeah, the court doc charges are much less than the impression you get from the media.

1. restrained her from leaving
2. grabbed her breasts
3. *tried* to pull down her pantyhouse
4. forcibly grabbed her genital area
5. forcibly touched his penis to her mouth *twice.*

the end.

there is no rape charge. apparently there wasn't even a blow job, penis never *entered* mouth.

"attempted rape"

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/05/16/nyregion/20110516-Strauss-Kahn-complaint.html?ref=nyregion

too weird. maybe he phoned for a hooker & mistook the maid for same.

who knows.

but jeez it sounds unlikely to me.

[LisaL]

82. I am really confused as to what you are suggesting here.

[Hannah Bell]

88. apparently so.

[leftstreet]

103. There's not enough information to "suggest" anything

:shrug:

I have no conclusions. Wish the media reports weren't so vague about her escape. Lots of details coming out alleging specifics around the assault itself, but nothing about how she got away.

[yellowcanine]

110. Victims do escape from rapists. Not weird at all.

[Hannah Bell]

125. lol. willfully obtuse.

[Hannah Bell]

62. fox news. another source on the blood evidence, please.

[steve2470]

63. The Strauss-Kahn Case: Follow the Evidence, Not Immunity Rules

May 16 2011, 6:47 PM ET

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/05/the-dominique-strauss-kahn-case-follow-the-evidence-not-immunity-rules/238957/

If you are inclined to follow the startling sex assault case against International Monetary Fund chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn, my humble advice to you is to focus more on the evidence and less on the complex issue of immunity rules as they relate to quasi-governmental officials. It's obviously very early on in this case, and I reserve the right to be wrong, but my gut tells me that Strauss-Kahn's legal team -- which includes the ubiquitous Benjamin Brafman -- either won't assert an immunity defense or won't prevail with it in American courts even if they do.

On the other hand, it is deeply significant that Strauss-Kahn underwent Sunday what his lawyers called "a scientific forensic examination" of his body even as prosecutors were moving for a court order for a search warrant that would allow them to check out his clothes. ABC News called Sunday's testing "a forensic imaging exam" but it doesn't really matter what you call it. In a he-said/she-said rape case, without any obvious eyewitnesses, this is the stuff that typically determines the outcome. In other words, with the defendant already "examined" in this fashion, the case (here's the complaint) may already be over but for all the shouting.

Ah, the shouting. Try not to listen to too much of it. Or at least try to keep an open mind about what you are hearing. Right now, only 48 hours or so into this burgeoning international scandal, the people who know what is going on generally are not talking. And the people who are talking generally don't know what is going on. The misinformation and disinformation that emanates from these high-profile cases in the first few days is harder to spot than the eternal perp walk we've already all seen. But it's no less present and certainly no less cynical.

As People of the State of New York v. Strauss-Kahn rolls on, then, there are six things I'll be looking for over the next few days and weeks.

*more at link above*

[leftstreet]

70. Interesting

from one of the linked articles

Others pointed the finger at French conservatives after a member of President Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling UMP party tweeted news of Strauss-Kahn's arrest well before mainstream media, following a tip-off from a friend who worked in the hotel.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/16/us-strausskahn-complaint-idUSTRE74F1PI20110516

[steve2470]

67. The terrifying ordeal in Suite 2086

http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2BNews/World/Story/A1Story20110517-279221.html


(Above: The door of room number 2806 of the Sofitel hotel in New York, where IMF head Dominique Strauss-Kahn was staying.)

NEW YORK - It was noon in New York on a lazy spring Saturday. But behind the closed doors of luxury hotel suite, a chambermaid was allegedly being brutally attacked in a horrific ordeal that would shock the world.

Her ordeal may well spell the end of the stellar career of veteran French politician Dominique Strauss-Kahn, the head of the International Monetary Fund who now faces up to 25 years behind bars if convicted. He denies the allegations.

During several long, terrifying minutes, the 32-year-old said she was grappled and groped, had her breasts and intimate parts fondled, her panties ripped, and was forced to endure as her attacker tried to push his genitals into her mouth.

Shocked and in terror, she finally escaped and ran panicked from the $3,000-a-night suite 2086 of the Sofitel in midtown Manhattan, telling staff and friends that she had been indecently mauled by the man inside in a degrading and frightening assault.

*more explicit details at link above*

[Hannah Bell]

90. per the court accusation:

1) forcibly restrained her from leaving (closed the door)
2) grabbed breast
3) grabbed genital area
4) tried (unsuccessfully) to pull down pantyhose
5) touched penis to mouth *twice*

the end.

charge: attempted rape. sexual abuse. "touching"

[steve2470]

74. from Gawker.com:

http://gawker.com/5802184/the-latest-rapey-dominique-strauss+kahn-news

<snip>

Here's the very latest morning updates on Strauss-Kahn, a.k.a. "the great seducer."

He was positively ID'd in a police lineup. Whoops.

Strauss-Kahn, who's pleading innocent, "willingly consented to a scientific forensic examination" last night, according to his lawyer. That could presumably turn up any physical evidence of the crime on his body.

Though Strauss-Kahn is undeniably a smart man, he doesn't come off as a master criminal. The WSJ says that police caught him after he called his hotel to ask if he'd left his cell phone there—and hotel security, lying, said yes, and asked him where he was so they could return it. They sent the police instead.

<snip>

[Hannah Bell]

91. boy, what a dumb rapist! he calls the scene of his crime (hotel) & tells them to bring over

the stuff he forgot while he was raping!

raping the hotel's own staff!!!

[LisaL]

92. I don't think anyone is claiming he is a genius.

[Hannah Bell]

98. are they claiming he's a moron?

[seabeyond]

112. because he feels so fuckin privilege, has done it in past, is allowed this behavior

thinks he is above being called on it.

fits perfectly

[inna]

78. Apparently, Sarcozy has been trying to smear this dude for months.

well...

[steve2470]

81. FACTBOX-Timeline of events in Strauss-Kahn case

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/17/strausskahn-timeline-idUSN1628497620110517

<snip>

SATURDAY ABOUT NOON EDT (1600 GMT) - A 32-year-old maid entered Strauss-Kahn's suite, room 2806, which she apparently thought was unoccupied.

Following routine procedure, the maid announced herself when she entered the suite, and left the front door to the suite unlocked and ajar, the law enforcement source said. She entered the living room and did not see anyone. Then she opened the door to the bedroom, where she saw Strauss-Kahn naked. She apologized and said she would come back later, and started to leave the room.

Strauss-Kahn allegedly ran after the woman and, according to the criminal complaint filed by prosecutors, shut the door of his hotel room, preventing her from leaving. He grabbed the victim's chest without consent, attempted to remove her pantyhose, and forcibly grabbed her vaginal area. His penis made contact with the victim's mouth twice through the use of force, prosecutors said.

The woman fled and reported the incident to her supervisor, who called police. Strauss-Kahn left the hotel, leaving behind his mobile phone.

*more at link above*

[JDPriestly]

94. DId she knock before she entered the bedroom?

This story gets curioser and curioser.

[steve2470]

95. I think I read she did knock. I'll look for a link

Fox News reported that as is hotel protocol, she had knocked three times on the door of the 28th floor suite and identified herself as "housekeeping" before entering to take away trays and left-over condiments

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jyQ9cIA8Dlljnh7BvrlWLqjSh1xw?docId=CNG.b8e248e01f0016c2b08efefe5b618571.ec1

Faux News, so....

[JDPriestly]

96. But did she knock before entering the bedroom where he was

sitting naked. Who knows what he was doing in there?

[steve2470]

97. Good point. I'll keep looking around nt

[Hannah Bell]

99. lol. i've read 1) he was just getting out of the shower, naked, and

2) he was hiding (somewhere, naked), & sprang upon her.

[seabeyond]

114. another wow. rip off pantyhose, force dick to mouth.... but did she knock? nt

[Name removed]

120. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

121. attempted to remove her pantyhose, and forcibly grabbed her vaginal area

protect at all cost

fuck the woman abused

[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

126. ah... so the wording is not gentle enough for you. hey... "There may well have been consent."

she wanted it, dressed as a maid and all, the little whore was asking for it.

there goes your buddies alibi, along the wayside, in no time at all.

[Hannah Bell]

128. there goes his reported alibi. according to another report. from anonymous sources.

as are most of the reports save for the court filing.

you really don't get anything.

but continue your fantasies of ripped off panties & my undying love for my fellow socialist dominique strauss kahn.

lol.

[seabeyond]

131. right. i dont get anything. you on the other hand understand throwing woman under bus

and allowing a man with history of this shit, and the jokes at the expense of the victim (he is nto the victim, btw regardless of france media creating him as such) has a higher power.

i dont get it

i do not get it at all

i dont want to get that

[Hannah Bell]

138. "throwing woman under bus" -- yeah, that's it.

[steve2470]

101. conspiracy reference here:

<snip>

Bernard Dalle, a magazine editor, complained that Strauss-Kahn was treated like "Al Capone in manacles" by a country where "all that is sexual goes to their heads."

Dalle said he believed the politician should be punished if found guilty.

"But we can't imagine it is true. It smells like machinations, it smells like a plot," he said. Dalle wasn't alone among conspiracy theorists who wondered if Strauss-Kahn was the victim of a right-wing plot.

Jonathan Pinet, an activist in Sarkozy's Union for a Popular Movement party, was the first to post a Twitter message about the arrest, even before it happened, according to the Le Post website. Pinet said he heard the news from a contact working at the hotel.


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Strauss+Kahn+refused+bail+judge/4794082/story.html

[enum]

117. First the head of WikiLeaks, now the chief of IMF ..

Facing the fact that we have here two conspicuous similar cases makes me thoughtful .. perhaps DSK's lawyers should organize a conference call with their colleagues who are actually defending Julian Assange ..

[Prometheus Bound]

119. His lawyers are now claiming that wasn't an alibi. It was consent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4853693

[seabeyond]

124. " There may well have been consent." she wanted it, dressed in a maid costume and all

oh, well, fuck the alibi, she was asking for it.

[Nye Bevan]

129. Yes, that defense is going to work. Isn't it every hotel maid's dream

to have a fat, naked 62 year old guy chase you down a hallway, grab you, and try to force you to perform oral sex?

[seabeyond]

133. he is hot, dontcha know. women are throwing themselves at him to get on their knees

so i am told

no rape necessary. no force. doesnt even need to pay. we womne really want to suck on his dick. i guess ALL us women want it. really

[Hannah Bell]

139. "anonymous source"

[yellowcanine]

140. Nina Totenberg is reporting that "consent" is being claimed by DSK's lawyers.

http://www.npr.org/2011/05/18/136412953/after-complaint-imf-chief-s-arrest-was-swift

[seabeyond]

141. yes it is, but some dont let facts get in the way..... so i let it go.

i heard it again this morning listening to

npr, lol

[Distant Observer]

127. The Challenge is the Definition of the Assault. Charging paper does NOT indicate any consumated sex

act, but rather attempt at Oral Sex and forceful grabbing.

Might have been an offensive, crazy attempt that Strauss-Khan did not think was taken seriously, but that the maid obviously found monstrous and damaging.

[Hannah Bell]

130. no, if you read more carefully, the taboid article doesn't say the lawyers said that.

an anonymous source said that. it is placed near an uncontextualized statement the lawyer made at the arraignment so that the reader conflates the two in his mind.

[hobbit709]

122. Everybody has an alibi.

The question is will the alibi check out.

[WinkyDink]

132. Oh, his DAUGHTER will provide an alibi? Okay.

[msanthrope]

134. Your OP is outdated---He's now claiming consent--

The Strauss-Kahn Defense: It Was Consensual


http://www.businessinsider.com/dsk-alibi-2011-5?utm_source=twbutton&utm_medium=social&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=bi