Krugman: Obama "might as well move out of the White House" if not willing to "draw a line" with GOP

[Bluebear]

by Gaius Publius

First, Krugman recounts the original Obama cave-in to Republican hostage-taking — the one December last, when Obama was "forced" to extend the Bush II tax cuts on the very very rich.

Then, after listing all the ways not raising the debt ceiling would be disastrous (the article is worth reading for that alone), Krugman says this (my emphasis):

Hitting the debt ceiling ... may be unavoidable. ... Because this is a hostage situation. If the president and his allies operate on the principle that failure to raise the debt ceiling is an unthinkable outcome, to be avoided at all cost, then they have ceded all power to those willing to bring that outcome about. In effect, they will have ripped up the Constitution and given control over America’s government to a party that only controls one house of Congress, but claims to be willing to bring down the economy unless it gets what it wants. ...

According to Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, Mr. Obama has told Democrats not to draw any “line in the sand” in debt negotiations. Well, count me among those who find this strategy completely baffling. At some point — and sooner rather than later — the president has to draw a line. Otherwise, he might as well move out of the White House, and hand the keys over to the Tea Party.

I wrote yesterday that I feared Krugman is "not optimistic" about the Obama outcome. Let's change that; I now think Krugman is as afraid as the rest of us, and is indeed calling Obama out as a last resort.

Good luck with that.

http://www.americablog.com/2011/05/krugman-obama-might-as-well-move-out-of.html

[The Magistrate]

1. Mr. Krugman Is Right, Sir

[readmoreoften]

6. Nice. I agree with you.

[MilesColtrane]

19. Do you believe the Republican House members are bluffing, and are unwilling...

to force the government to default on its debts?

[defendandprotect]

41. Repugs have always been the destroyers ... that doesn't mean our Dem president has to help them ..!!

The extension of the tax cuts for the rich did great harm to the nation ---

especially a nation recovering from the "Great Recession" -- !!

Obama has now given us another TON to worry about --


T - Trade agreements with Korea and Colombia

O - OIL DRILLING --

N - New loan guarantees to the NUKE industry for a new generation of nuclear
reactors in US!!


YIKES!!

[Skittles]

2. LOLOL

:rofl:

It's the Greedy Old Pig pary drawing the lines

[villager]

3. Well, there was certainly no point in getting him *in* the White House, if he can't

Or won't.

[MadHound]

4. Good for Krugman,

I fear what the next big time Obama cave is going to be as well.

[highplainsdem]

5. K&R

[JDPriestly]

7. Thank you, Mr. Krugman.

Obama might as well move out if he "compromises" or "meets the other side half-way" on this. There is no compromise, no half-way at which to meet.

Lives depend on the continued provision of Social Security and Medicare benefits. The GOP needs to raise taxes on the rich and then, if that does not balance the budget, talk to the middle class about cuts.

The middle class have lost their jobs and, in many cases, their business. They have closed their credit card accounts and are now losing their homes in ever larger numbers. The poor have nothing to sacrifice but their cardboard boxes and food stamps. The middle class has sacrificed all it can.

It's time the rich paid their share of the bill.

And let's start with the Koch Brothers and their buddies and then move on to Exxon and the hedge fund folks. There is lots of money to be had to pay down the debts that Reagan and the two Bushes ran up and still stimulate the economy to get it going again after the Bush recession/depression.

[Marr]

8. Of course, the problem is that Obama has just been building political cover

for the wealthy-first/big business-first policies he actually favors. He plays three-dimensional chess, alright-- the problem is he's playing against us.

[defendandprotect]

38. K/R -- +1 --

[dkf]

9. How is defaulting and wrecking our credit not playing directly into the hands of Republicans?

That seems the surest way of drowning government in a bathtub to me.

It's always been the Republican plan to shrink Government by wrecking our financials.

[Bluebear]

10. Dunno. Krugman is a professor of economics & Nobel economics laureate. Ask him!

[sendero]

11. If he stood up to the Republicans and told them.

... he wasn't going to cave to their demands no matter what - they would back down. Because if THEY hold the debt ceiling all hell will break loose and it will be on THEIR HEADS.

The ONLY reason they (the Reps) are pulling this bullshit is that Obama has CAVED every time they do so they feel like they have nothing to lose and they are right.

NOBODY HAS EVER PLAYED THIS KIND OF POLITICAL FOOTBALL WITH THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE, we're getting it now because Obama is SUCH A PUSHOVER.

[Bluebear]

13. thank you

[defendandprotect]

42. +1000% --- don't humor bullies -- !!

[ProSense]

17. Krugman acknowledged that

<...>

For if we hit the debt ceiling, the government will be forced to stop paying roughly a third of its bills, because that’s the share of spending currently financed by borrowing. So will it stop sending out Social Security checks? Will it stop paying doctors and hospitals that treat Medicare patients? Will it stop paying the contractors supplying fuel and munitions to our military? Or will it stop paying interest on the debt?

Don’t say “none of the above.” As I’ve written before, the federal government is basically an insurance company with an army, so I’ve just described all the major components of federal spending. At least one, and probably several, of these components will face payment stoppages if federal borrowing is cut off.

And what would such payment stops do to the economy? Nothing good. Consumer spending would probably crash, as nervous seniors started wondering how to pay for rent and food. Businesses that depend on government purchases would slash payrolls and cancel investments.

Furthermore, markets might well panic, especially if interest payments are missed. And the consequences of undermining faith in U.S. debt might be especially severe because that debt plays a crucial role in many financial transactions.

So hitting the debt ceiling would be a very bad thing. Unfortunately, it may be unavoidable.

link

It's going to take shrewd negotiating.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. It'll require savage bipartisan cuts to critical social programs

And, of course, more goodies for the wealthiest.

[robinlynne]

27. The problem is, Obama's economists are rightwingers, negotiating with the far far right, so who

speaks for us?

[MannyGoldstein]

34. Works perfectly for Obama.

He gets exactly what he (apparently) wants, but can tell Democrats "Don't blame me, I was hostaged, I had no choice!"

Sweet!

[Bluebear]

57. +

[defendandprotect]

44. Not exactly ... evidently some of his economic advisors told Obama the stimulus ...

he was asking for was only 20% of what was needed -- and then he settled for

less than that!

Evidently, he also seems to have gotten advice to "nationalize banks" as we went thru

the financial coup --

Also, unions and teachers have given him trouble over economics/trade/public education --

but they're not the groups he's listening to!!

And, Rahm PROCLAIMED that as a victory for Obama which business should be "grateful" for!!


Another DU'er posted this on 8/12/10 --

Rahm .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!


”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the

overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system;

the fact that

billions

in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...


The political Bible according to DLC/Rahm -- !!

[MNBrewer]

55. didn't take long for ProPaganda to raise it's head

[TheKentuckian]

18. How many times are you going to pay the blackmail?

Do you seriously intend to piece meal scrap the country until there is nothing left, and if so what is the point of electing Democrats?

If the TeaPubliKlans are going to be in charge no matter what then let them take the heat.

[MannyGoldstein]

28. For 18 years, elected "Democrats" have been appeasing Republicans at every turn

Some of us think it has not gone well, and that it needs to stop.

[defendandprotect]

48. Back even further than that ---- "In 1978 Dem Party fully in power --

and well before Reagan" -- worked with Republicans to break the tax code

and manipulate it for the benefit of the rich.


"Dem majorities have supported this great shift in tax

burden every step of the way: --


This is from Wm. Greider's 1992 book "Who will tell the people?" which I read at that

time and am re-reading now. Keep planning to get a little report up, but so far haven't

gotten to it!


REWARDING THE FEW AT THE EXPENSE OF THE MANY !!

It also boggles my mind that DU'ers still expect the 45% of our Congress who are millionaires

and multi-millionaires to "do the right thing" for the people!!!


Ouch!



And, I can personally tell you that I watched in amazement as Sen. George Mitchell, Majority

leader of the Senate turned the Democratic Senate over to Sen. Bob Dole!!

There's no other way to describe it!!

[MannyGoldstein]

59. Interesting, thanks! nt

[bvar22]

12. I disagree with only the first sentence where it is stated:

"the original Obama cave-in to Republican hostage-taking — the one December last, when Obama was "forced" to extend the Bush II tax cuts on the very very rich".

That "cave in" was not the original,
but merely another in a long line of "cave ins".

When the history is written,
President Obama will share a page with Neville Chamberlain.

K&R


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[Shining Jack]

21. +1

An extremely long line of "cave ins". :(

[robinlynne]

29. but that parivular cave in was the worst, economically, for the country. it sort of

guaranteed our ruin.

[defendandprotect]

49. +1 ---

[JoeyTrib]

14. Krugman needs to open his eyes and realize

that Obama wants the GOP plan to happen, just like he has wanted them to happen all along.

Obama is DLC, and the DLC want the further austerity measures that will be brought about by defaulting on the debt. It is through debt defaults that the IMF takes over and the Shock and Awe of public sector destruction begins in earnest. Everything you are seeing from the trashing of public sector teachers and cops and schools and fire houses; from the slow erosion of Medicare (by a thousand cuts) and the desire to dump Social Security into the stock market; these are all DLC wet dreams. Obama is there to make it happen while looking like a liberal.

[defendandprotect]

40. Quiet .... we're supposed to be ignoring all of that .... !!

[Lorien]

56. He hasn't looked like a liberal since the campaign

and even then he was a centrist more than 90% of the time. Now he's just a right wing Reaganite.

[JoePhilly]

15. Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad

yawn.

[gratuitous]

16. So fill us in

I know that giving away the ending is frowned upon on the internets, but you could put "Spoiler Alert" in the subject line. What is the brilliant strategy, 12-level Vulcan chess that's being played here? Some of us predicted back in December that the failure to end the Bush era tax cuts was a losing strategy and it would just come back to haunt us. But apparently it was the prelude to the incredible strategem we're about to see.

Can you give us a hint? Because it looks like Obama, by refusing to stand for anything, is about to fall for something.

[JoePhilly]

64. If Obama let the middle class tax cuts expire ....

1) The Media would make that his read my lips moment because he would have broken his promise to not raise taxes on the 95% making under 250k. And in reality, THAT is all the 95% care about.

2) If Obama broke the promise to not raise taxes on the 95% making under 250k, the same folks who scream now, would be screaming louder while proclaiming that he hates the middle class for raising their taxes during a fragile recovery.

3) By extending the tax cuts, he has not broken any promise. He has kept one, and delayed another. He said he would not raise taxes on the middle class, and he has not. He said he would end the Bush tax cuts for the rich, and he still has time to do so. So that promise is not broken, just delayed.

4) After he is reelected, and he will be, he can let ALL of the tax cuts expire. Which will mean he will BREAK the promise to not raise taxes on those under 250k, but cement his promise to end the tax cuts for the rich. I'm sure you will cheer him when he does so.

Bottom line ... the extension of the tax cuts for the rich is a non-issue now. Or are you now a Liberal who cares more about the deficit than anything else? Obama let the deficit increase to protect the middle class. The BASTARD.

[Randy_P]

20. Rec'd

[woo me with science]

22. Kicked and recommended. nt

[QC]

23. Paul Krugman is just jealous. n/t

[AlbertCat]

25. Paul Krugman is just jealous.

Of what? Obama's hair? :eyes:

[QC]

32. His overall dreaminess. n/t

[Bluebear]

66. !

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Doctor_J]

30. As I poined out to a DUer yesterday, giving in to bullies never works

Here is the germane line

Mr. Obama has told Democrats not to draw any “line in the sand” in debt negotiations. Well, count me among those who find this strategy completely baffling. At some point — and sooner rather than later — the president has to draw a line. Otherwise, he might as well move out of the White House, and hand the keys over to the Tea Party.

The Repukes don't have any respect for him because he never holds the line on anything. So, they just keep punching, knowing he will cower and move back farther.

His will go down as the most disappointing presidency in history.

Yesterday's exchange on the latest extortion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4852503&mesg_id=4852801

[dflprincess]

31. Perhaps the president should contact Governor Dayton for lessons

in how to deal with Republicans.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/121966179.html

DFL Gov. Mark Dayton tried to budge glacial budget negotiations Monday by making a surprising offer to cut in half his proposal to raise taxes on high earners...

..Dayton's Monday offer would slim down his tax-increase proposal and would require him to come up with another $1.8 billion in unspecified budget cuts that he said could be negotiated.

When asked if there was any chance their devotion would wither under pressure of a special session or shutdown, dozens of Republican lawmakers shouted in unison: "No!"

Dayton said they shouldn't expect him to cave. "For them to want me to go all the way over to their budget target, it's not compromise, it's not reasonable and it's not realistic," he said. "I'll go halfway, I won't go farther."

He said if things melt down now, it's lawmakers' "responsibility and their fault'' because he's moved closer to them.

[russspeakeasy]

33. when I hear that the whitehouse is negotiating...

it scares the crap out of me.

[Jim_Shorts]

35. the paymasters on Wall Street wont let their servants hurt the markets

This is like John Boner holding a gun to his own head and demanding the democrats to give him what he wants.

But watch Obama give in and say "don't shoot, don't shoot , I'll give you whatever you want" and some people on here will say "wow, the O-man out smarted them again"

[lfairban]

43. I'm glad you said that . . .

. . . now I don't have to.

:yourock:

[bertman]

36. Krugman has been right on every economic move so far. Oh wait, we are now

OUT OF THE RECESSION. Oh wait. No we're not. It's getting fucking worse.

President Obama will cave. He is a DLC tool as has been amply described above.

REC.

[DCBob]

47. Krugman said we were in the midst of a depression about a year ago.

and likely doomed to get worse. Has he ever retracted that dumb statement?

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bertman]

67. 75% of the businesses in my area are laying off employees or shutting down.

This is an area that was heretofore considered 'recession proof'.

This is two years after the Stimulus Plan was enacted.

With people losing their jobs, their homes, their futures, why is this not considered a DEPRESSION?

Answer: because the stock market's investments in overseas business ventures keeps the Investor Class in America rolling happily along while the Working Class sinks deeper and deeper.

Maybe you should get out of DC, Bob. The rest of the nation is suffering and it's not getting better.

[DCBob]

68. The recovery has been regional for sure, but no economist says we are in a depression now.

in fact we arent even in a recession... based on the technical definition.

[bertman]

69. Yes, and all of those workers who have been unemployed for so long that they

are no longer looking for work are now NOT EVEN INCLUDED IN THE UNEMPLOYMENT STATISTICS. That's because our government decided that was a negative statistic that the American people should not be exposed to.

Our government controls the wording and the message. Believe what you want.

[defendandprotect]

37. This is Obama and Liebermann all over again --

Lieberman the mighty Senator -- the Superman with Super human powers to control

the Dem White House, the Dem USHR, the Dem Senate --

It's a crock and Krugman is right --

[defendandprotect]

39. A DU'er posted a quote by Howard Zinn on this --

"Bipartisan is just another way of saying one party rule" --

[leftstreet]

45. K&R

[DCBob]

46. I believe he will when the time comes.. we aren't there yet.

Obama is giving congress time to make a deal. If they cant by the drop dead date which I believe is in Aug, then that's the time to draw the line.

[Stardust]

53. You are one brave guy (?) To suggest such a thing in this thread...

Wow. :applause: Just when I wanted to put a gun in my mouth, you come along and say some reassuring. Thank you.

[killbotfactory]

50. Obama is a real asshole

Sit out the next election kids, it's time to teach him a lesson.

[akbacchus_BC]

51. What a stupid comment? Who elected you the President of the US?

[killbotfactory]

52. If we appease Obama he will just get worse

This thread has convinced me to stop caving in to bullies!

[Jazzgirl]

60. Most people will ignore that advice. n/t

[olegramps]

61. I understand your fustration, it is shared by many, but it is unrealistic.

[democracy1st]

54. K & R

[QC]

58. K&R

[Vidar]

62. Krugman is right, as usual.