The American experiment in democracy is ending in disaster.

[Cyrano]

America is the oldest democracy in the world. But can anyone tell me that American democracy is still alive and well? Our country has gone through periods when our democracy was challenged, attacked and almost destroyed.

But this time around, it looks like the bad guys are winning. Want some proof? Okay. Do you trust that your vote is being counted? Do you believe that the majority of our politicians, state and federal, have not been bought and paid for by the super wealthy?

Do you really believe that some “majority” in congress gives a damn what we think, what we believe, what we want, or what we need? Do you think that most of them would go against those who paid to put them in power and will do so again?

Is this the perverted idea of democracy our Founding Fathers had in mind when they created our democracy? Come on. You know the answer to that question.

The reality is that we’ve been screwed beyond belief. And it wasn’t just taken from us. It was given away by the ignorant among us who bought the snake oil being peddled by the greedy. And who are these greedy? Give me a fucking break. Do I really need to name Murdoch, the Koch Brothers, Limbaugh, the entire Republican Party, their Tea Bag wing, Wall Street, and so many others?

Wake up, Americans. If you think you are still living in a democratic country, you’re living in a delusion.

But there’s the slim chance that it’s not too late to take it back from the criminal element that has stolen it from us. We still have the web. And they want to gain control of it before we can fight back against their power.

So let’s hear your ideas of how we can retain those freedoms we have left. And what I’d like to hear most is how we can restore our democracy.

[L0oniX]

1. There's nothing that can be done short of mass rebelion. We are only playing a game of ...

musical life boats ...as the Titanic goes down.

[RKP5637]

3. A realistic view and well stated. n/t

[Chisox08]

8. We are not rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic

I like to think that we are rearranging the deck chairs on the Hindenburg.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. This isn't the world's oldest democracy, not by a long shot.

That honor probably belongs to Iceland, whose parliament, the Althing, originated in the 900s. I agree with most of your other points, though. I think this has become, quite overtly, an oligarchy that pays only lip service to democratic principles. Yes, we can vote, but we really can't control much unless we have bags of money.

Benjamin Franklin is said to have answered the question of what kind of government they had created with this: "A democracy - if you can keep it." Looks like Ben knew what he was talking about, and that we didn't do a very good job of keeping it.

I think I'll move to Iceland.

[Fumesucker]

4. I thought the quote was "A republic, if you can keep it."? n/t

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. You're right - I stand corrected.

Probably what he was concerned about was the return of a monarchy. But what we have now is worse.

[socialist_n_TN]

26. Yes we can vote..........

for one of two candidates OF the oligarchy. That is our only choice.

[JVS]

33. The Althing really wasn't a parliament until fairly recently.

The form that it had in 900 was more of a convention. At this convention business was carried out, marriages were arranged, the law was recited, and lawsuits were made. And lawsuits were not as we think of them today, but rather were a formality in the waging of feuds as William Ian Miller has noted in his books on the topic.

[liberallunatic]

35. Iceland is having some of the same economic problems

we are... They deregulated the banks and got screwed as bad as we did. They'll probably recover though as they don't seem to be happy about it as many in America do.

[KittyWampus]

6. Cynic's never admit progress. It negates their world view. And their insistence

on focusing forever on the negative is usually just a manifestation of their arrogance and/or laziness.

You supposedly want to hear ideas but begin your thread with "The American experiment in democracy is ending in disaster" and set up a straw man where others are supposed to assure you everything is wonderful.

Yours is a shallow post but I'm sure many DU'ers will herd on here to post a +1.

[originalpckelly]

10. Ah yes, progress. If absolute power corrupts absolutely...

what does the power to destroy the world do?

[Cyrano]

13. KittyWampus, please let me know where your planet is. It seems to

be a better place than the one on which I live.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Angry Dragon]

14. In what areas has this country moved forward in the last

say twenty years??

I don't see it, and I am looking............

[RKP5637]

20. I thought the US was F'ed up in the 50's, then in the 60's/70's I thought

progress was being made, then the the 80's I decided it was getting F'ed up again and now I know it's really F'ed up. And now I have no idea what the next decade will bring. IMO it's going to be good or really bad, but I think the in between is just about gone.

[Nye Bevan]

24. OK, I'll bite.

Racial discrimination has been reduced to such an extent that an intelligent black man, who would have been enslaved or subject to Jim Crow in the not so distant past, was elected President, even winning conservative states like Virginia.

[Angry Dragon]

37. After Obama was elected I thought that this country was

finally past a great deal of racism. I was totally wrong.
Since he was elected all I have heard is racism. Coming from talk show hosts, elected officials,
people on the street. Nobody is slapping these people down. Where are the leaders of this country
telling these people that they are out of line?? SILENT!!

[TreasonousBastard]

16. Alas, you are right...

look how many agree with him.

This is not a perfect country, or world, but in many ways a better one than it once was.

[originalpckelly]

7. In some ways our system was modeled after the Roman Republic.

But it was missing something: collegiality.

In all the offices of the Roman Republic there was more than 1 official per office. They had the power to veto each other's decisions.

There was one exception to this rule: the temporary office of dictator.

Need I say more?

[cali]

9. yes. I have absolute faith that my vote is being counted.

sadly, I also believe that a majority of the politicians in the other 49 states are bought and paid for.

As for the founding fathers, their view of democracy is quite different from mine; they believed in democracy for white male land owners.

I'm living in a democratic state. Most of you are not.

[RKP5637]

17. You live in a wonderful state politically and beautiful in nature!!!

:) :yourock:

[Fumesucker]

18. Most people think *their* politicians are just fine..

It's all those *other* people's politicians that are the problem.

Which is why incumbents get reelected so much.

[cali]

23. hmm. Bernie Sanders, Peter Welch, Pat Leahy in Congress. Peter Shumlin as gov

State Senators like Anthony Pollina, Dick McCormick, Peter Galbraith- not to mention many others. Shap Smith, Speaker of the House who is simply wonderful- both as a human being and a leader. A viable Progressive party.

You should be so lucky.

[Fumesucker]

30. How does that show my statement was incorrect?

I'm in the deep south and most of my neighbors like their political representation too, they think your reps are the problem, not theirs.

[Solomon]

11. It never was a democracy.

[CrispyQ]

12. Revoke corporate personhood.

That would be a good start. Think of the legislation that would be effected by that. Here's an interesting timeline of people's rights vs corporate rights: http://reclaimdemocracy.org/personhood/personhood_timeline.pdf

[TreasonousBastard]

15. For maybe the fiftieth time...

at least.

Perhaps you would have preferred to live in Andrew Jackson's time, or during the Civil War. The Mexican and Spanish-American wars were a good time, too, as were the imposition of the Alien and Sedition Acts and Shays' rebellion.

Slavery and slaughtering Indians must have been the apex of civilization if these times are so bad.

And don't forget those good times in the 30's, or the even better times that led up to them. And the bosses who ran the political parties back then (and in some places still do).

Are the Koch brothers really so much worse than old John D. or Jim Fisk? Is Limbaugh a bigger threat than Father Coughlin?

The unfortunate truth is that there will always be those who prefer to use wealth and power to screw the rest of us, and it's much easier to complain about it than do something about it or deal with protection.

[Fumesucker]

22. Most of us are making the comparison within our own experiences..

And in that comparison America has fallen a long way from 1980..

I think most people on DU have at least a clue why, too.

[TreasonousBastard]

38. That's the wrong way to look at it-- one must have a sense of history and...

understand WHY it seemed so much in 1980. Or 1950, for that matter.

And one must know how it got that way for clues how to get it back.

[KittyWampus]

25. Thank you for taking the time to compose your post.

[Taverner]

19. Oh don't say that, it will anger the Blue Dogs

And when they cry we're all supposed to cry with them, or we lose our credit rating...

[Nye Bevan]

27. Silly hyperbole. "Disaster" is a military coup or civil war,

not a lawfully elected President who is not implementing all of the policies on your personal wish-list as quickly as you would like.

[Fumesucker]

31. Oh, I dunno..

Being jobless and homeless is pretty disastrous on the individual scale and we're getting more of those by the day.

[uponit7771]

28. Who should I give all of my money to?

[Cyrano]

29. The koch brothers. It will soon be useless anyway.

[lunatica]

32. Anyone paying attention saw this the day Bush was selected

When you ignore the Constitution and arbitrarily select your man against all evidence that he didn't win when you don't have the legal right to do so, Democracy as we know it has been kicked in the teeth.

Everything after that day has been a grab for power. It was a coup. Just not a bloody one.

[Cyrano]

34. Hey, luatica. There's just one possible response to your post. Exactly!

[liberallunatic]

36. As evidenced in this thread it's all a matter of perspective

Did you lose your home? your savings? Your 401k? Are you unemployed? Homeless? Living in a tent city? Then things are not looking good. At all. However if you are working, have some savings, a home, not worried about bills, school for your kids, or retirement , then things are probably looking good.

You want to know how we are going to get out of this? We may not. As evidenced here, many people believe things are just peachy. What do they care if you lost your job, your house and are living in your car? Dancing With The Stars is on!

There are too many people with no empathy at all. Too many who think that other peoples real world problems are something to be debated about on the internet.

Not to mention that we as a nation seem to be more worried about terrorists than homelessness, more worried about unending wars than educating our children, worried about making sure the top 10% gets more and more and more and everyone else gets less and less and less.

[dionysus]

39. oh noes. we're all doooomed.

[Citizen Worker]

40. If democracy is defined as having the right to vote then some of us used to live in a democracy.

Except if you happen to be of darker skin. However, even those dis-qualifiers were superseded in 2000 when the vote was limited to five black robed thugs, the closest election in US history, and a mere nine votes were cast. Please note that the democrats did nothing to address the voting machine issue or the hundreds of thousands of minority voters who have been and will be purged from voting rolls. No, this is not a democracy, but many of us believe it is. To not believe it is too painful and would be an admission that action is required.