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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 06:22 AM Original message |
Much Death and Destruction in Tornado Alley is painful, tragic, but also SHAMEFULLY PREVENTABLE. |
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izquierdista (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 06:27 AM Response to Original message |
1. This was proved (almost) 20 years ago |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 06:31 AM Response to Original message |
2. how is it that the Walmart was flattened? And what about older homes and buildings- |
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groovedaddy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 06:44 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. I saw one person who had a brick home in Joplin and it was flattened. And, as you pointed out |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 08:24 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. Concrete and Steel with solid foundation WILL SURVIVE A TORNADO |
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Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:48 AM Response to Reply #5 |
26. Tell it to the walmarts and homedepots and st josephs that got leveled. |
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uppityperson (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 11:03 AM Response to Reply #5 |
32. Fail for "WILL" when "can" is the term. |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 05:10 PM Response to Reply #5 |
50. Nothing WILL survive a tornado, |
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Dappleganger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:56 AM Response to Reply #3 |
13. +1000 for CBS |
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Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:50 AM Response to Reply #13 |
27. Myth. Hurricanes can and do level CBS. I've seen it with my own two eyes. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 07:01 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Engineered Lightweight concrete block with steel (AAC) has been promoted |
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bighart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 08:28 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. No large retail structure is wood frame. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:06 AM Response to Reply #6 |
7. Quite sure the Walmart that collapsed could not have been Steel frame and concrete |
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deaniac21 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:45 AM Response to Reply #7 |
10. Yeah, and the hospital was built from cardboard. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 10:00 AM Response to Reply #10 |
66. Notice that the hospital structure survived and people inside were relatively secure |
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bighart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:07 AM Response to Reply #7 |
17. Sorry you are incorrect. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 10:44 AM Response to Reply #17 |
68. True Concrete and Steel method are almost never used for typical single-story |
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laundry_queen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:37 AM Response to Reply #2 |
9. From what I understand |
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Hassin Bin Sober (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:41 AM Response to Reply #2 |
23. I wouldn't use Walmart as an example of anything. |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 11:42 AM Response to Reply #2 |
71. The slabs are still there, aren't they? |
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laundry_queen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:34 AM Response to Original message |
8. Absolutely agreed |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:52 AM Response to Reply #8 |
11. This is great input from you personal experience. Thanks. Stick-Frame structures are death-traps |
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Phentex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 07:29 AM Response to Reply #8 |
55. That's the kicker... |
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theHandpuppet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 09:41 AM Response to Reply #8 |
63. My partner and I have been discussing this for some time |
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dixiegrrrrl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 11:16 AM Response to Reply #8 |
69. More and more F-4 and F-5 tornadoes are predicted. |
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fascisthunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:54 AM Response to Original message |
12. This needs to be parroted to save lives |
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Pisces (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:57 AM Response to Original message |
14. As with everything it is all about cost. Very few could afford a steel frame house. When was the |
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theHandpuppet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 09:45 AM Response to Reply #14 |
64. A steel frame house isn't necessary... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 09:58 AM Response to Original message |
15. Deleted message |
cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:05 AM Response to Original message |
16. Doesn't make sense. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:17 AM Response to Reply #16 |
18. What I am saying is just part of basic building practice in many countries |
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cbdo2007 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:26 AM Response to Reply #18 |
19. Sounds like a distant observation |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:41 AM Response to Reply #19 |
22. I built houses in Africa, the Caribean and remodeled 2 in California |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 11:32 AM Response to Reply #16 |
37. Deleted message |
Occulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 12:46 PM Response to Reply #37 |
43. Yeah, he's all about "free market" and "personal responsibility". |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 01:09 PM Response to Reply #37 |
44. Deleted message |
kentauros (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:34 AM Response to Original message |
20. And again I ask |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:51 AM Response to Reply #20 |
28. Much of Europe, Russia, China, the Caribbean has moved away from pure Wood-Frame |
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kentauros (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 11:01 AM Response to Reply #28 |
31. I didn't mention wood-frame. |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:36 AM Response to Original message |
21. I live in tornado alley and would never live in a house without a basement |
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kentauros (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:43 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. If the water table is too close to the surface, |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 11:15 AM Response to Reply #24 |
35. I find that crazy |
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kentauros (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 11:22 AM Response to Reply #35 |
36. Considering that a swimming pool is then filled with water |
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pstokely (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 12:37 PM Response to Reply #35 |
42. They do in California |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 03:35 PM Response to Reply #42 |
47. California isn't in tornado alley |
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PVnRT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 12:22 PM Response to Reply #24 |
40. Or if you're close to bedrock |
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RayOfHope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 05:09 PM Response to Reply #21 |
49. People have replied to you about this over and over. All of tornado alley is not like KC |
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Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:46 AM Response to Original message |
25. Not only can tornados and hurricanes destroy concrete & CBS buildings when they DO fall, they squash |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 12:11 PM Response to Reply #25 |
38. This is not 1911 but 2011. There is a global industry for modern light secure building material and |
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Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 06:12 PM Response to Reply #38 |
51. Since you were just in Haiti, please describe the condition of the wood frame buildings compared to |
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JPZenger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:52 AM Response to Original message |
29. At 190 mph winds, it is extremely difficult to protect against |
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kentauros (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 11:05 AM Response to Reply #29 |
33. Technically, there is one way of keeping even a board from piercing |
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MilesColtrane (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 11:06 AM Response to Reply #29 |
34. Yes, if you peruse the photos of the aftermath of the Joplin tornado... |
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PVnRT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 12:27 PM Response to Reply #29 |
41. A 190 mph wind, exposure class C (open terrain) |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 04:58 PM Response to Reply #41 |
48. In many countries all building foundations and basements are steel and concrete |
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crickets (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 10:59 AM Response to Original message |
30. K& swallowed R -nt |
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pstokely (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 12:13 PM Response to Original message |
39. The ground is hard in Joplin |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 07:20 AM Response to Reply #39 |
54. Right. The bottom-line profit has been the issues. I many countries people build on solid rock |
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Chris_Texas (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 08:02 AM Response to Reply #54 |
56. I highly doubt this. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 09:11 AM Response to Reply #56 |
59. What do you doubt. There are reports on trade-offs - secure building cost vs insurance costs |
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joeglow3 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 09:27 AM Response to Reply #59 |
61. In many countries people are paid shit |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 09:46 AM Response to Reply #61 |
65. I read somewhere that alternative building method would cost about 5% more |
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Uncle Joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 01:21 PM Response to Original message |
45. We need to start designing more rounded, aerodynamic structures. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 02:16 PM Response to Reply #45 |
46. This is exactly right. Design for the environment. |
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Fleshdancer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 06:24 PM Response to Original message |
52. We should be striving for better building codes in tornado valley |
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TNLib (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue May-24-11 06:50 PM Response to Original message |
53. I honestly think the building codes need to be better in the south to with stand tornadoes |
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Chris_Texas (707 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 08:24 AM Response to Reply #53 |
57. I think you are underestimating the power of these storms |
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laundry_queen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 09:30 AM Response to Reply #57 |
62. That is totally NOT practical |
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Bake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 08:58 AM Response to Original message |
58. Try digging a basement in the hard clay of Mississippi |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 09:14 AM Response to Reply #58 |
60. Here you go. Standard practice in many countries -- required by code |
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Bake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 10:31 AM Response to Reply #60 |
67. Sure, you can do that. |
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Distant Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu May-26-11 11:32 AM Response to Reply #67 |
70. Do you have a reference. My data shows concrete and steel affordable house in Mexico |
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