where do we draw the line on clean energy or not hurting animals

[michunionman]

noticed this article

http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/24/solar-projects-pit-green-against-green/

I know its a few months old but i find it interesting

as some humor i love when it says "It’s green-on-green violence"

Where do you all think we should draw the line? at some point, one is going to have to give to the other

My vote is toward clean energy because if the climate changes the Mohave ground squirrel or desert tortoise are screwed anyway..

[HillbillyBob]

1. In the long run windmills will not kill so many critters as fossil fuels already

have.

I still wonder why the hell they insist on building the Horizontal Axis Turbines when the Vertical Axis Turbines use less material for the effort, look 'solid' to bats and birds(thereby allowing them to avoid them) and take less maintenance.

[michunionman]

2. agreed

but I believe we need to have a diverse amount of clean energy cuz the wind isnt always blowing and the sun isnt always shining (tho some areas are pretty constant)

[xoom]

6. lets give everyone an exercise bike to generate their energy

:P

[Sal Minella]

3. Whenever I tried to institute change/improvement in my workplace,

I was told "We do it this way because this is the way we've always done it."

End of discussion.

[Fumesucker]

7. I think it will eventually go to flying wind turbines..

The winds at even modest altitudes are much more regular and considerably stronger than at ground level or the hight of a HAWT tower.

There are quite a few concepts under development, here's one I just learned about this week.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/solar-wind/how-flying-turbines-will-change-wind-power-2

[xoom]

4. if some animals have to die, so be it.

[csziggy]

5. Why do we have to spread out our power grid even further?

Why are we not plastering solar panels to every roof surface at the power point of use? Put them on every parking garage, over the damned streets and freeways? Cover all those heat sink places with solar collectors, doing two things - reducing the solar energy absorbed by buildings and ground and generating electricity. And if the energy is generated at the point of use, there is less loss through transmission and less stress on fragile environments.

A few weeks ago someone posted a thread about a company who is making and selling solar panels designed to be installed at point of use - smaller free standing ones that can be put at individual parking spaces for use recharging electric cars, larger installations to go on the top deck of parking garages. Costco is selling solar panel "kits" that can be installed on roofs or made into car ports.

If the electric companies in this country got smart, they could "rent" solar panels to residential customers and still make obscene profits. Most people do not want the hassle of figuring out what capacity to install, how to do it, dealing with the maintenance, or eventual replacement. I would happily pay a reasonable fee per month and turn all those concerns over to the local electric co-op I currently buy my electricity from.

[michunionman]

8. There are some cool options I read in

Popular mechanics

and one is "superconductors" which can be plowed in the ground with 3 ft of right of way instead of the 200ft needed for normal long distance lines and superconductors have no loss so things could be done more efficiently on a larger scale

I also remember reading about an idea to take the interstates in California (which has a shitload of interstates that are wide and cover them with like a solar panel roof it was kinda interesting because otherwise that land is less useful

The only problem with point of use is where I am at in Michigan doesnt get reliable sun or wind we have the a/c on one day and the heat on the next.. damn lakes are an amazement and a curse haha

with super conductors we could put windmills off the coast and other consistently windy places and solar panels in arizona and get the energy all over with no loss

[csziggy]

9. Solar panels are more efficient in the South and West

But the newer ones can still generate power ever with a cloud cover. Each part of the country will have to use what they can. But I cannot see for cities with lots of sun and acres of roof tops and freeways why solar panels should be sited out in the desert and the power sent back over miles and miles.

[AndyTiedye]

10. Oil Spills Kill Far More Birds than Windmills Do

Still windmills could do better.

Slow-spinning windmills wouldn't kill anything, and should also be quieter and require less maintenance.

Vertical-axis windmills, as another poster points out, would also avoid killing birds.

There may also be some way to warn the birds away from the windmills.

[MineralMan]

11. Nothing humans do avoids impact on the environment.

The reason is that we are also part of that environment. There is no way to avoid harm to other creatures. We harm other creatures simply by living our lives.

Every living animal affects its environment in some way. Humans are no exception.