I have a question for people that observe the Jewish Faith.

[RandomThoughts]

And all its teachings, with much love.


And I ask this seriously. Is the secular leader of a state like the 'pope' of the Jewish faith?

Do people put leadership roles with religious deference to the secular leaders of the state of Israel.


Is it like the leaders of Iran that run the state with a leader as the head?


Or is the secular leader of Israel in a role of separation of church and state.


And can the State secular leadership define what Jewish people should think and feel on social laws and topics?


Seriously, what is the role of the State of Israel and the faith of the Jewish people.



And I have another question for historians, what would Golda Meir think of the topics of torture.

One of the most famous statements of this great woman was the following: �We can forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but not for making our sons killers.� That is a classic Jewish response; better, a classic Jewish mother�s response, to war.

Bonnie Raitt - I Can't Make You Love Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW9Cu6GYqxo

Bonnie Raitt - Nick of Time
http://www.123video.nl/playvideos.asp?MovieID=407128

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ian David]

2. There is no Jewish Pope.

There is nobody in Israel telling Jews what politicians to support, what causes to fight for, or what we should do in our own communities and homes.

In fact, there isn't even one kind of Jew.

[RandomThoughts]

5. I believe the same as you typed.

I just think some people don't seem to act that way.

[elleng]

3. No; none, and keep in mind Jewish people are, generally,

very much like Dems, that is, independent-minded and all over the map. Herding cats.

[RandomThoughts]

6. I was typing it to get some thought on the topic.

I know there is not a pope in Jewish teachings, but ask if some find themselves in those thoughts.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[elleng]

14. Don't understand 'if some find themselves in those thoughts.'

[Poll_Blind]

4. I have a definitive answer for you, but you're not going to like it. It goes like this:

Even the Jews in Israel who ask those questions get the same answers you will.

PB

[RandomThoughts]

10. I find it interesting that people answered the question.

Instead of thinking on it, it was to ask about leadership, and followship, and separation of church and state thoughts, that I posed that question. Not becuase I did not know the answers.

So my question should have been, is the issues of separation of church and state like treating secular leadership as religious leadership. And how do different people of Jewish faith think of the state, and there feelings on how they think on authority.

It seems some believe that the state, and the feelings of the faith are the same thing. I really do believe in separation of church and state, becuase the role of the state, and the role of the faith do not have the same methods and purposes.

Although they can overlap, to define an authoritarian state structure with religious authority creates problems.

Also why I think on democracy, since that helps with the entirety of people to decide in the area they are in in social governance.

But anyways, I thought it might get someone thinking on the topic.

[karynnj]

11. Maybe you should think of the reason

Your question would be like assuming that all Catholics thought the same thing about the Prime Minister of Italy or if all Episcopalians thought the same thing about David Cameron.

In some ways it is worse. In that it asks if all Jews, world wild have some loyalty to the government of Israel and its leader. The fact is Netanyahu has 27 of over 100 seats in Israel's Parliament - and even his party does not always agree 100% with him.

In addition, American Jews are CONSIDERABLY more likely to be liberals, progressives, and Democrats than the rest of the American party. Whether 2000, 2004, or 2008 - the Democrats got at least 75% of the Jewish vote. In addition, Jstreet polled American Jews last year and about 80% agreed with them on the solution being a 2 state solution. (Jews far preferred JStreet's position to AIPAC's - though they were I think not labeled as such.)

In fact, you will find that the demographic most angered by this manufactured disagree is not American Jews, but rw Christian evangelicals. (Not to mention - Jews are about 2 % of the US)

[jillan]

13. Excellent reply Karynnj. Thank you. I actually sat here for a couple of minutes

trying to respond but couldn't find the right words. You nailed it.

[RandomThoughts]

17. Could you explain.

"manufactured disagree"

I also think most people of Jewish faith, are more about life and caring for many people, they have defended unions and the poor, and fought for civil liberties in much of the world.


I don't think that any group is all the same, and I have posted that statement many times, but it seems that is the way it is presented. The image that comes from the right side of the aisle is that they protect Israel or something like that, with the ideas of the far right.

My point is I was not saying that I think that is the case, but that it seems there are people that think that, or act like that is the case.



To be honest I was probably saying that there are some right wing elements of Mossad that are distorting things, and trying to use the Jewish faith for political agenda.

I think that is what I was saying.


However it is interesting the replies that occurred, compared to other posts.

[karynnj]

18. What I meant is that Netanyahu himself made a statement within hours of the speech

attacking it- even though when you look at his own position, it can be reduced to 1967 with swaps. One thing I read suggested that the real problem was not the idea that the borders will be as said, but that the President of the US was essentially say that as this is where everyone says the solution lies, let's just accept that and then deal with the issues on which there is no similar agreement. (It should have been disagreement, but I was listening to something else while typing and edited poorly.)

The two biggest are Jerusalem and the right of Palestinians to return to what will then be Israel. The article suggested that Netanyahu did not want to concede the border issues until these were resolved - as that could provide leverage on those thorny issues. (I personally suspect that as time goes by, the amount of leverage Israel has decreases, not increases.)

The urgency that Obama is responding to is that in September every other country is considered likely to vote for a Palestinian state in the General Assembly. As the US position, since Clinton has officially been a two state solution (and it was the position informally since Carter.), it would be really awful if the vote is 187 to 2, where the 2 is the US and Israel - and even worse if the it is the US alone that vetoes Security Council approval.

I am Jewish, though grew up Catholic and have a daughter who majored in world religions. She had the fantastic experience in studying abroad to live with both a Buddhist and a Moslem family while studying abroad. I would say that people from ANY religion - or no religion can be remarkably caring. In addition, all religions have people who do not live up to the expectations of their religion.

In Judaism, there is a concept, Tikun Olam, usually translated "repair of the world". This phrase is used to support actions for anything from being an environmentalist to providing for the poor and needy. There are some that say that in Judaism this is a Mitzvah (something you must do) rather than the Christian concept of Charity, where you choose to do it. IMO, both the actions and the motivation are very similar.

[DavidDvorkin]

7. You mean, "I have a question for Jews."

Yours is an odd and completely unnecessary circomlocution.

[rbnyc]

12. completely unnecessary circomlocution

is also a great user name.

:toast:

[DavidDvorkin]

15. Hah!

[REP]

16. Agree

Also agree with post.

Not the OP, which seems to be either the worst sort of ignorance ... Or something uglier.

[sakabatou]

9. OK

1. No, we have no Jewish "Pope"
2. That depends on what denomination you're in
3. No. The secular leadership doesn't have that power.
4. It's more or less a promise from God that we have a homeland.
5. I never studied about Mier in school, so I have no idea.

[LeftishBrit]

19. No. The Israeli political leaders do not act as spiritual leaders in any way

Israel does have two Chief Rabbis (one Ashkenazi, one Sephardi), who act as religious leaders of the Jewish communities in Israel. However, they play no such role as a Pope, together or separately, and are not regarded as religious leaders of the Jews in other countries. Other countries with significant Jewish communities usually have their own Chief Rabbis.

In any case, the world's Jews would never be able or willing to unite around a single leader, in religion, politics or anything else. As the saying goes, 'Two Jews, three opinions'.