Remember when the right (and the PUMAs) wanted Obama to apologize for

[scheming daemons]

saying that folks "clinged to the bibles and guns"?



Yes.. this isn't anything like calling someone a "slut"... but my point is that the "enemy" demanded an apology.

They didn't get one.

They lost.



Apologies are only for people who you want to reconcile with.... that are CAPABLE of being reconciled with.

The right-wing in this country are the moral equivalent of snakes... no apology will ever be enough, so it should never ever be given.


It's the same bullshit they tried with their faux outrage over Common reading poetry at the White House.



Do. not. give. the. fuckers. one. inch.

[Liquorice]

1. Would you feel that way if he had called Herman Cain the N word? nt

[scheming daemons]

2. 1) Herman Cain isn't the loathsome human being that Laura Ingraham is

and

2) "slut" isn't even in the same universe as "nigger" in terms of how severe it is.

[Liquorice]

3. There was a time when the n word was not "that bad" either. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

7. So its a matter of degrees with you?

How far out do you wish to take your degrees? How far do you have to lower yourself? Meh.... this is totally pathetic.

[lonestarnot]

8. What are you talking about?

Pathetic. :eyes:

[AsahinaKimi]

13. You are trying to argue for severity ???

You want permission to use something less severe? So you figure you can just make up a chart in your head as to what degree of severity is okay?

[Liquorice]

9. Sexism isn't as bad as racism to a lot of people, apparently. nt

[scheming daemons]

11. Calling someone a "slut" is no more sexist than calling someone a "prick"

Insulting? yes.

Sexist? nope.

[Liquorice]

12. That is a bunch of bs. nt

[Hannah Bell]

17. why?

[Very_Boring_Name]

24. Because "Slut" has historical and cultural connotations that "prick" does not

[Hannah Bell]

26. what are they? not trying to be a prick, i just want to hear someone make the case.

[Very_Boring_Name]

30. Charges of sexual promiscuity have been used to attack women for millenia

Women have traditionally been seen as sexual objects. The word "slut" reaffirms this view because it treats the woman's character as being based solely around their sexual habits. There is no historical equivalent for "prick"

[Hannah Bell]

31. for millenia? are you sure? at any rate, the word "slut" didn't mean

that until about 1700, and didn't mean that exclusively until perhaps the 19th century.

and there *are* masculine equivalents: lecher and whoremonger spring immediately to mind. Rake/rakehell & debauch = i looked up.

they're not common outside books today but lecher actually had its current connotation much earlier than slut did.

also negatively-connoted words for men who live off prostitutes (though not equivalent to slut) -- pimp, ponce, panderer. Whereas the female "madam" does not have such strong negative connotation.

"traditionally" is a big word and you're making big generalizations. and i don't think you can make them about "millenia".

imo, feminism is a filter like any other, & imo, unless combined with others it tends to mystify male/female relationships into some kind of weird individual male original sin.

anyway, thanks for explaining why you feel the way you do.


"The Rake's Progress"

[Mojeoux]

33. In the 14th Century it was "Poxy Doxy!"

That way you insulted the woman's sexuality and called her a syphilis carrier too.


We proud sluts have been trying to take BACK the slut word anyway.

And sleazy politicians are whores or rather prostitutes anyways. They get paid. Sluts do it for fun.

[Hannah Bell]

37. doubtful as 14th century = 1300s & "doxy" isn't attributed until the

until mid 1500s at all.

i believe "poxy doxy" is from an edith sitwell poem.

[Mojeoux]

42. You may br correct about the century, but "Poxie Doxie" was a

street slur of the peasant classes. The peasant classes didn't read poems.

Poems read the stories of the ages.

[emilyg]

15. You are wrong.

[Hannah Bell]

18. why?

[emilyg]

20. You are a woman - I shouldn't

have to explain this to you.

[Hannah Bell]

23. it's like a secret club? i didn't get the password.

i don't feel any more offended when people insult me on the basis of my gender than i do when they insult me on the basis of my intelligence, my looks, my bankroll, my skills, my status, whatever.

all insults are intended to diminish the other. so long as they stay at the level of personal insults, i can handle that. i can talk myself out of feeling diminished, & i am capable of fighting back.

it's when they're accompanied by other manifestations of power that it becomes alarming. but that applies to any kind of insult.

[lillypaddle]

38. I agree!

I think it's getting ridiculous, including at DU, how every little word is jumped upon. I've earned my feminist "credentials" over the years. It's stupid to say this was a sexist remark.

[AsahinaKimi]

14. No...

after all we are "JUST WOMEN", what do we know? :sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

19. no one said that. why do you pretend someone said or implied something they didn't?

why do you invent an imaginary insult?

not trying to be personal, but i don't get it.

[AsahinaKimi]

40. ne..

dansei no koto ga wakaranai no desu. gomen nasai.

[Hannah Bell]

21. what is "sexism" to you?

[RandomThoughts]

4. Becuase in the totality of it all.

An inch is all you will ever have, and the most important thing to ever have.

Valerie's Letter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0lYIBjCpco

Function not data, although you are correct if someone wants you to apologize to then use it against you, not for healing it doesn't mean anything for them to want you to apologize.

They are not trying to help you heal, but trying to find a way to hurt you.

So the idea behind what you say makes sense. And you are speaking about integrity when someone tries to get you to apologize to hurt you.

[hardcover]

5. Hey! I am a PUMA.

Show some respect.

[givemebackmycountry]

6. No, I don't think so.

Unless you are a sneaker, the term PUMA is now irrelevant.

[murielm99]

22. I don't even remember what a PUMA is any more. nt

[hfojvt]

28. I think it is

Situation Normal, All Fouled Up

no, wait, that cannot be right

maybe Self Contained Underwater Breathing Apparatus

no.

uhm Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emmission of Radiation

no

got it

Party Unity, My Austria

[lonestarnot]

10. Not one fucking inch!

[Hannah Bell]

16. he should have apologized if he said "clinged," though. for grammatical sin.

[hfojvt]

25. you seem to be remembering it wrong

"Obama initially reacted to the resultant media firestorm over the weekend by trying to stand by his comments. But he later apologised, saying: "If I worded things in a way that made people offended, I deeply regret that.""

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/14/barackobama.uselections2008

Plus, there were no PUMAs at the time, since the primary had not really been decided yet.

[Hannah Bell]

27. that's the old, "i'm sorry if you were offended" ploy. not really an apology.

he's not really saying he said anything out of line.

just sorry "he worded it" in a way that "made people offended".

[hfojvt]

29. well, "the purpose of an apology is not to accept blame

it's to make a sarcastic or disparaging remark and yet later be able to say "I apologized, what more do you want?""

But Obama definitely did some back-tracking. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7344532.stm

"After a storm of criticism from his rivals, Hillary Clinton and Republican John McCain, Mr Obama said he "didn't say it as well as I should have"."

"At a rally in Indiana on Saturday, Mr Obama conceded his description had been clumsy and not conveyed its intended meaning.

He said he believed many voters were indeed bitter about the economy and that he had meant to say that "when you're bitter you turn to what you can count on"."

He wasn't standing by his comments, just trying to claim he meant something different.

[The Wizard]

32. We are a weird culture

that requires an apology for being honest.

[whathehell]

35. There is no "honesty" in attacking a woman's gender/sexual morals...

for her POLITICAL VIEWS.

It's STUPID and sexist....Men have to start

talking to and about women in relation to their

Minds and Characters

in the same NON-sexual way

that they do men.

[wickerwoman]

34. Why do you think it is only the right that should get an apology?

I think he should apologize to all women, not just right wing ones. Dragging a woman's sex life into a completely unrelated conversation in order to denigrate her is a really shitty, retrograde thing to do. And it doesn't matter that it's "one of our own" doing it. It just means he should have known better.

[whathehell]

36. +100

DU boasts some very slow learners on this issue.:eyes:

[seabeyond]

39. no. the apology is saying, i am better than this, forgot for a moment. bible and guns

in full context in no way was a slight. so nothing to apologize for.

slut was a slight

ed did fine

[jbnow]

41. Obama did apologize for how that one came across.

He did it lamely in a debate I think. He said that wasn't how he meant it at all, that he'd said it better previously, it was even on taped shows.
Then his voice faded and his time was up and no one believed him.

After he had won the election, not sure if he was president yet, he had a long interview with either New Yorker or NY Times Sunday magazine. Anyway in it he said that incident was his greatest regret, how it sounded like an insult and was no meant that way at all and he still thought about it.

Oh my Obama. Why didn't he just release that blip from Charlie Rose from a few years earlier where he said it the normal way he meant it?
People were upset about that comment as though it was bitterness that turned people to those things. Even Chris Matthews brought it up a lot just shocked that it must be the real way he feels about those people and he tells rich friends.
But no one upset about it talking to me during campaign stayed upset. I showed blog posts from people who were there and the circumstances around it and then what he said in past regarding that and suddenly they saw the meaning of it as a compassionate one, not a judging one. Many were shocked the media never showed that

Anyway that's not really the point but what is the point is he regretted it deeply and for a long time. A real apology for how it sounded and a brief showing of the fuller picture might have done him a lot of good, not be a lingering thing he regretted most.

Ed seemed to deeply regret what he said. In this case not the misunderstanding... he did use that word. Seems once he thought about it and his wife and likely bosses got to him he was deeply sorry. Made to apologize or not I think he would want to

In case anyone cares about Obama thing it would be rude to bring up all I did and not explain it. If these links are still valid this is
clip from Charlie Rose
http://youtube.com/watch?v=xkrL0G9wonE
Test from Time of that fund raiser
http://thepage.time.com/transcript-of-obamas-remarks-at-san-francisco-fundraiser-sunday/
Posts from people there and sad by how it was taken
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-coleman/i-was-there-what-obama-re_b_96553.html
http://momocrats.typepad.com/momocrats/2008/04/obamas-remarks.html#more