Does anyone still think women are judged more harshly than men when it comes to sex?

[apples and oranges]

In order for Schultz's comments to be considered sexist, one would have to demonstrate that women are still being judged more harshly for promiscuous behavior.

Yet, anyone paying attention can see how much things have truly changed over the past few decades. There was a time when women had sex and were shamed for it. Anyone who got pregnant without being married was ushered off to a farm somewhere to have the baby quietly before returning to town like nothing happened.

Today, women are not shamed any more than men are for having sex. One need only turn on the TV to see women like Snooki and J-Woww having sex with different men every night on Jersey Shore, or the young teen moms who make hundreds of thousands of dollars on MTV's Teen Mom to see that our culture has changed.

Yes, some people still judge women. But those people judge men just as harshly. Look at Tiger Woods, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bill Clinton, and John Edwards. They have been crucified in the media for their sexual behavior. There was a time when men could have all the sex and affairs they wanted to without being called out on it.

The point I'm making here is that today, men and women are judged equally when it comes to sexual behavior. For that reason, calling a woman a "slut" is no better or worse than calling a woman an asshole, or calling a man a "male slut."

[vi5]

1. Yes, they are still judged more harshly...

And I'm sorry, citing Snooki or J-Woww does not make it true.

[blondeatlast]

18. +1 hundred-eleventy. nt

[Macoy]

42. Cheating & Lying

“Look at Tiger Woods, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bill Clinton, and John Edwards. They have been crucified in the media for their sexual behavior.”

Sorry, I have to disagree. If the above men were unmarried, they would not have been crucified for sex for lots of women.

They were crucified for cheating and lying, not for having sex.


Macoy

[tabbycat31]

58. Also Snooki and J-Woww (I can't believe I know who they are) are not married

[Swede]

2. SlutWalk sparks worldwide protest movement

Ms. Barnett came up with the name for last month’s Toronto march after talking with friend and University of Guelph student Heather Jarvis. Both were outraged by a report in a campus paper that a police officer advised York University law students to “not dress like a slut” to reduce the chances of assault.

“He used the word ‘slut’ in his way. We wanted to take the word and sling it right back in our way,” said the 38-year-old mother, who until this spring had never marched in a protest. Besides grabbing attention, the title also is designed to teach people about the harmful use of language, she said.

[sinkingfeeling]

3. Yes. Or haven't you noticed the tidal wave of anti-women laws being passed this year.

[DearAbby]

24. !

[LanternWaste]

4. Often, women are blamed for beings victims of rape due to the clothing they wear

Often, women are blamed for beings victims of rape due to the clothing they wear, yet I have never heard of a male rapist or his apologists blaming his actions on the clothes he wears. When I do, I may re-evaluate your position.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. Yes; look at the cases of Newt Gingrich and Mitch Daniels

Newt is a serial adulterer, including some appalling behaviour to a seriously-ill wife, but that just gets ignored. Mitch Daniels, another Republican, withdraws from the primary race because it's felt too embarrassing that his wife left him, married another man, then left him and remarried Daniels. Her behaviour looks a lot more honourable that Newt's, but it's held to be too much of a handicap for her husband.

[w8liftinglady]

6. perhaps, not everywhere. In my neck of the woods,women still ask to be raped

and must submit to their husband,like a good christian.
need I say more?

[Le Taz Hot]

7. How appropose your screen name.

Bill Clinton, Tiger Woods, Arnold Schwarzenegger and John Edwards were judged because they had extramarital affairs not because they slept around. As far as I know, the none of the females that you mentioned are married. More interesting is the language that you used while describing Snooki and J-Woww as "having sex with different men every night on Jersey Shore . . ." So what? If they're responsible and not popping out kids at age 16, so what? In the process of trying to prove that women are no longer judged more harshly than men you used language judging them more harshly than men and offering up a false comparison in the process.

[eShirl]

8. YES just look at the Christian Right if you don't believe it.

[pipi_k]

9. The thing is...

I'm not aware of any gender specific name for men who have promiscuous sex.

"Man-whore"? Please. The fact that the word "man" has to be put before "whore" means that otherwise we would think of a woman.

"Man-slut". Same.

Pig? Not really. Women can be called pigs too, and often are, much more than men.

Asshole...gender neutral.

The only gender specific word I can think of is "Player". But even then, the implication there is more along the lines of something to be proud of.

[Skinner]

10. The fact that you had to use the phrase "male slut" is proof that women are treated more harsly.

There is no similarly derogatory slur for a promiscuous man.

[bobbolink]

20. Yet the terms are OK at DU.

[Skinner]

27. No, the term "slut" is not appropriate for DU. (nt)

[bobbolink]

30. Thank you for clarifying that., Hmm. So, alerting on it should solve that.

Unfortunately, often that is not the case.

[Skinner]

35. Obviously, it depends on context.

If the word comes up in the context of a discussion about Ed Schultz's comments and whether the term is appropriate, then it might be permitted.

But if someone is using it as a slur against a woman or women, it would not be permitted.

[bobbolink]

36. I have bookmarked this reply of yours, and will use it in an alert the next time this comes up.

Thank you.

I would also like to request that you see this short video, as these words are a pre-cursor to physical violence against women, which I have tried to explain to mods here:

http://www.missamericabyday.com/#Watch_Marilyns_Interview

Now, if we could have the same protection for poor people, which is also directly connected to physical violence against poor and homeless people, it would definitely be a step in the right direction. I hope you will give that some thought.

[Johonny]

29. tell that to Arnold Schwarzenegger

who's extra sexual activity is certainly not getting positive press (particularly from females). I think women are more able to voice displeasure at male sexual activity than previous generations. It is certainly possible generation Y is more tolerant of sexual activity than Gen X and so on. But I agree both females ability to attack males activity and females ability to behave in a normal human sexual way without bringing attack are not equal. There is still a Victorian double standard in society although I accept the posters position it is not as pronounced as it was when I was born.

[Gormy Cuss]

50. Schwarzenegger isn't getting negative press because of his extramarital sex activity.

It's solely based on that activity resulting in a child. The press didn't care about all of the other reports.

[SoCalDem]

44. hound dog man? horn dog?

:rofl:

[snooper2]

46. proper usage would be man-whore

[JustAnotherGen]

11. Yep

I still believe we are. . . And ITA with skinner - name ONE derogatory name for a man that sleeps around that doesn't need to have 'male' placed before it.

Lothario? Maybe that one - maybe - but then it's always said with a snicker you know?

[pipi_k]

16. Exactly...it seems like any word

used to describe a promiscuous man is said either with a snicker, or a wink of an eye.

"Don Juan"

People tend to romanticize him...

[JackintheGreen]

12. of COURSE they are: Look at how Lena Chen was treated.

Or the female teachers who have lost their jobs for racy FB picture, former lives as strippers or escorts, etc.

[EFerrari]

13. Are you kidding? Women are still killed for their sexuality in some parts

of the world. At the moment, there's a Republican crime wave in *this* country that is trying to deny us control over our own reproductive system. And what was that lecture school girls got from the police or was it the Mounties about dressing modestly?

You bet your life sexuality is still used to oppress women.

[chrisa]

41. ^^^^^^^^^^ This

[Chris_Texas]

14. Or course.

[no_hypocrisy]

15. When women should be challenged for their statements, a lot of times they are attacked

for their sexuality, regardless of whether it's fictional or true. If a woman says something inane or illogical or provocative or just plain wrong, why should the response to that statement be that she fucks? It's the ultimate putting-women-in-their-place as well as belittling the person rather than elevate the thought process.

[Raffi Ella]

31. This!

Tell me why Laura Ingram or any other woman deserves that for her political views?

Explain to me how equal we are when I walk into a room and every mans eyes are on me, looking me up and down as though I'm dessert on a trolley cart. If any of those men wanted to they could drag me off somewhere and do what ever they wanted to do to me. Short of carrying a gun around there is not much I can do to stop that.

To add insult to the injury of objectification/subordination our very Human Being is called into question if we DARE not act appeasing-ly appreciative of said mens 'gaze'; we're a Bitch!


Tell me how young girls are EQUAL when they get this treatment as soon as they develop, which for me was 10 years old.

Don't try to tell me we're equal. We're not. Ed was Dead wrong calling Laura Ingram a slut, just as wrong as anyone would be calling a black person a nigger on air; it's not our race but our femaleness that is being denigrated. No difference.

[no_hypocrisy]

33. I'm with you

[Raffi Ella]

54. And I with you.

Thank You so much for your post. You brought some much needed clarity as that is, in a nut shell, what this issue is all about.

[Bunny]

43. Excellent.

:thumbsup:

[Raffi Ella]

55. .

:thumbsup:

[bobbolink]

37. Very eloquently said! And the same goes for statements about appearance.

:applause: for a great post!

All the posts about Laura's choices in dress were so silly, and makes the left look just as small where women are concerned as the right.

Your words ask us to mature. I hope your words are heeded.

Thank you.

[raccoon]

17. Heck, YES!

"Today, women are not shamed any more than men are for having sex."

Not IME. You talk about celebrities and people on TV.

In RL, in my experience and observation, women are judged more harshly than men for having sex.

"The point I'm making here is that today, men and women are judged equally when it comes to sexual behavior."

We must be living on different planets. :shrug:

[meegbear]

19. The reasoning has always been ...

If a man sleeps around, he's a stud; if a woman does it, she's a slut.

[blondeatlast]

21. PSA: Television is not ordinary life and I worry a bit that you think it is.

"Jersey Shore"? REALLY?

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. could somebody please share exactly what Ed said?

All morning I've been hearing comments, and I saw his apology last night, but I still don't know WHAT he said and about whom.

[apples and oranges]

25. He referred to Laura Ingraham as a "talk slut"

[1awake]

23. Yes women are judged more harshly,

though I think men are starting to be judged similarly these days. But beyond a doubt, women have been and are still currently judged more harshly.

[phleshdef]

26. There are double standards going both directions.

If a famous man cheats on his spouse, he is often publically blasted for it. Though I've not seen that standard applied as harshly to famous women who cheat on their spouses.

But when a single man goes around having as many sexual partners as he feels like having, its often celebrated. But when women do the same thing, they are labelled as sluts, whores, etc.

I'm speaking purely from a Western/American perspective. Of course the third world is a different story altogether.

[seabeyond]

28. it is a matter of reducing any and all women to their sexuality. that her whole worth is wrapped up

in her sexuality.

that is what is old and tired.

you dont hear anyone reducing a man to his sexuality when wanting to insult him. they wrap him up in a woamns sexuality when they want to insult the man.

the woman won in NY and a poster reduces her to a sex dance by a bunch of barely clad women. why?

[Forkboy]

32. I think they're still judged way more harshly.

And in some other countries it goes well beyond "harsh".

[aikoaiko]

34. While it is true things have gotten better, your examples are not compelling enough for me to agree

...that women are no longer judged more harshly than men when it comes to sex.

[themadstork]

38. Without a doubt they are.

This is ridiculous.

[Puregonzo1188]

39. Just because women aren't judged as harshly as they used to be doesn't mean there's not a double

standard.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beacool]

45. Yes, yes and YES!!!!!!!!

Just check the sexist and misogynist vitriol directed at every female politician running for office. For example, Hillary and Palin (as much as I don't agree with Palin's politics some of the attacks directed at her were appalling).

Two cops just got acquitted today of raping a woman. People around my area (NY/NJ) are shocked. Judging by callers to radio stations, most of them agree that it was evident that one of the cops had rape her.

x(

[Odin2005]

47. Women in our soicety are considered sweet virgins or depraved whores, nothing in between.

While promiscuous guys are called "studs".

[EFerrari]

56. You forgot asexual Moms.

:hi:

[blondeatlast]

59. +1. nt

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. you must live in an alternate reality where men and women are judged equally for sexual behavior

[treestar]

49. I think you've got a good point

It's the feelings of the women called sluts - we shouldn't be offended, because we have the right to sex on the same terms, but we're still vulnerable to those insults by those who think we should be restricted.

[Fire1]

51. Oh for sure! That has not changed. n/t

[retread]

52. You can't be serious! Can you? Really?? n/t

[BlueIris]

53. The ignorance in your post is astounding.

It's been a long time since I've encountered anyone blind or isolated enough to honestly believe anti-male sexism is more prevalent than anti-female sexism. Or that misogyny is not absolutely epidemic in our culture. I mean, wow. Truly, you have just boweled me over.

[TheMuse]

57. Well, I have heard it explained this way....

A key that opens many locks is a master key. A lock that is opened by many keys is just a shitty lock.

[dawg]

60. Oh, there's still a big double-standard.

Women aren't entirely innocent in perpetuating it either.

[sudopod]

61. Yep. nt