High School Biology Teacher Schools Education Sec Arne Duncan -- GREAT LETTER!!!

[FourScore]

May 25, 2011
Letter to Arne Duncan
A letter from David Reber, who teaches high school biology in Lawrence KS

Mr. Duncan,

I read your Teacher Appreciation Week letter to teachers, and had at first decided not to respond. Upon further thought, I realized I do have a few things to say.

I'll begin with a small sample of relevant adjectives just to get them out of the way: condescending, arrogant, insulting, misleading, patronizing, egotistic, supercilious, haughty, insolent, peremptory, cavalier, imperious, conceited, contemptuous, pompous, audacious, brazen, insincere, superficial, contrived, garish, hollow, pedantic, shallow, swindling, boorish, predictable, duplicitous, pitchy, obtuse, banal, scheming, hackneyed, and quotidian. Again, it's just a small sample; but since your attention to teacher input is minimal, I wanted to put a lot into the first paragraph.

Your lead sentence, "I have worked in education for much of my life", immediately establishes your tone of condescension; for your 20-year "education" career lacks even one day as a classroom teacher. You, Mr. Duncan, are the poster-child for the prevailing attitude in corporate-style education reform: that the number one prerequisite for educational expertise is never having been a teacher.

Your stated goal is that teachers be "...treated with the dignity we award to other professionals n society."

Really?

How many other professionals are the last ones consulted about their own profession; and are then summarily ignored when policy decisions are made? How many other professionals are so distrusted that sweeping federal legislation is passed to "force" them to do their jobs? And what dignities did you award teachers when you publicly praised the mass firing of teachers in Rhode Island?

You acknowledge teacher's concerns about No Child Left Behind, yet you continue touting the same old rhetoric: "In today’s economy, there is no acceptable dropout rate, and we rightly expect all children -- English-language learners, students with disabilities, and children of poverty -- to learn and succeed."

What other professions are held to impossible standards of perfection? Do we demand that police officers eliminate all crime, or that doctors cure all patients? Of course we don't.

There are no parallel claims of "in today's society, there is no acceptable crime rate", or "we rightly expect all patients -- those with end-stage cancers, heart failure, and multiple gunshot wounds -- to thrive into old age." When it comes to other professions, respect and common sense prevail.

Your condescension continues with "developing better assessments so will have useful information to guide instruction..." Excuse me, but I am a skilled, experienced, and licensed professional. I don't need an outsourced standardized test -- marketed by people who haven't set foot in my school -- to tell me how my students are doing.

I know how my students are doing because I work directly with them. I learn their strengths and weaknesses through first-hand experience, and I know how to tailor instruction to meet each student's needs. To suggest otherwise insults both me and my profession.

You want to "...restore the status of the teaching profession..." Mr. Duncan, you built your career defiling the teaching profession. Your signature effort, Race to the Top, is the largest de-professionalizing, demoralizing, sweeter-carrot-and-sharper-stick public education policy in U.S. history. You literally bribed cash-starved states to enshrine in statute the very reforms teachers have spoken against.

You imply that teachers are the bottom-feeders among academics. You want more of "America's top college students" to enter the profession. If by "top college students" you mean those with high GPA's from prestigious, pricey schools then the answer is simple: a five-fold increase in teaching salaries.

You see, Mr. Duncan, those "top" college students come largely from our nation's wealthiest families. They simply will not spend a fortune on an elite college education to pursue a 500% drop in socioeconomic status relative to their parents.

You assume that "top" college students automatically make better teachers. How, exactly, will a 21-year-old, silver-spoon-fed ivy-league graduate establish rapport with inner-city kids? You think they’d be better at it than an experienced teacher from a working-class family, with their own rough edges or checkered past, who can actually relate to those kids? Your ignorance of human nature is astounding.

As to your concluding sentence, "I hear you, I value you, and I respect you"; no, you don't, and you don't, and you don't. In fact, I don't believe you even wrote this letter for teachers.

I think you sense a shift in public opinion. Parents are starting to see through the façade; and recognize the privatization and for-profit education reform movement for what it is. And they've begun to organize --Parents Across America, is one example.

. . . No doubt some will dismiss what I've said as paranoid delusion. What they call paranoia I call paying attention. Mr. Duncan, teachers hear what you say. We also watch what you do, and we are paying attention.

Working with kids every day, our baloney-detectors are in fine form. We've heard the double-speak before; and we don't believe the dog ate your homework. Coming from children, double-speak is expected and it provides important teachable moments. Coming from adults, it's just sad.

Despite our best efforts, some folks never outgrow their disingenuous, manipulative, self- serving approach to life. Of that, Mr. Duncan, you are a shining example.

http://prorevnews.blogspot.com/2011/05/letter-to-arne-duncan.html

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. Mr. Reber, what are you doing inside my head?

Wish I could write like that. (And he teaches BIO !)

K and R

>>>"I hear you, I value you, and I respect you"; no, you don't, and you don't, and you don't. >>>

The guy's got style.

[Sancho]

2. This was a terrible appointment

It will cost Obama votes. Duncan needs to go. I heard him speak at a meeting I attended. He really is arrogant to me.

[csziggy]

36. It's only terrible if you don't take into account the motivation

If the intention is to continue the dismantling of public education in this country and the drive to privatize education, Arne Duncan is the perfect appointee.

If the intention was to actually improve our educational system, he is perfectly wrong.

I hate to say it, but I strongly suspect the first statement is why he was appointed. I don't think the motivation by anyone at the top is to improve our public education system, no matter which party is in control. But then, this country has not put sufficient funds into our educational system for at least the last fifty years, if ever.

[Mrs. Ted Nancy]

76. Linda Darling-Hammond

was Obama's advisor during his campaign. Bill Gates and Eli Broad pushed for Arne.

Diane Ravitch goes into this with more detail. Her book is illuminating.

"The Death and Life of the Great American School System: How Testing and Choice Are Undermining Education"

Publisher: Basic Books (March 2, 2010)

ISBN-10: 9780465014910
ISBN-13: 978-0465014910

[Enthusiast]

80. Why would Obama continue to

pursue Bush education methods? I see Bush's initiatives as a failure. Is Obama simply this misinformed? How can he be this misinformed?

[truth2power]

116. Obama is not misinformed. It is who he is. I suppose that this qualifies me

as a "hater" in the minds of some, here. I wouldn't say I hate Obama, personally, although I find many of his actions to be repugnant in terms of my moral compass. Not to belabor a point which I've made here before, but back during the primaries, in response to a colleague of mine who supported Obama I said, "He makes all-purpose speeches." As it turns out, I think my original assessment was correct.

Furthermore, his actions seem governed by political expediency more often than not. His appointment of Arne Duncan is a case in point. Neither Duncan nor Obama are professional educators (no, teaching constitutional law to law school students doesn't count). What Obama and Duncan are doing is to corporatize and privatize our entire public education system and sell it off for the financial benefit of a few wealthy investors.

Pres. Obama is not a stupid person. He knows exactly what he is doing, which is to destroy one of our fundamental democratic institutions. That is unforgivable in my book.

[erodriguez]

125. Bingo! +1

[Curmudgeoness]

3. Kick, because this is an awesome letter that everyone should read.

:applause: :yourock:

[FSogol]

4. K & R. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. David is one of my Facebook friends

He's awesome!!

[Smarmie Doofus]

45. Can't ya get him over here?

Wasted talent. I hate that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

46. I'm trying to get him to go to the march in July.

:)

[emsimon33]

72. He is awesome

[wtmusic]

6. Hard to argue with a program that shows improvement across the board

http://www2.ed.gov/about/reports/annual/2010report/fy2010-apr.pdf

[sudopod]

14. I question the metric of "improvement."

There is no natural unit of "child intellectual growth" like there are units of length and time. You can go to Paris and see what a meter looks like. You can define time by how long it takes a certain fraction of a mass of cesium atoms to decay. If you really want to lock it down, you could base your units on constants of nature. There are margins of error, but they are tiny. Those things are real and tangible and trustworthy, enough so to build our modern civilization in all of its complexity. However, there are no such concrete foundations for these exams.

Bubble tests produced by for-profit companies and written by non-educators are not in that same class, and even they only claim to measure progress in certain narrow fields. While children in lower grades may be doing better at basic arithmetic than last year according to these tests, how can they measure a student's understanding of history, the law, culture, or science? Can they measure the child's knowledge of Shakespeare or their musical or artistic inclinations? They are so narrow as to be useless. Comparison to controversies over IQ tests are also apt here, as exam writers incorporate cultural assumptions into some questions that aren't valid for many minority students.

In light of all of this, the idea that these exams are a valid measurement of child intellectual growth is ridiculous, and even more ridiculous is the notion that they measure teacher competence and school quality. These tests are nothing more than red meat for Republicans who like to harp on "accountability" for welfare recipients. This same flavor of "accountability" is being foisted on our teachers, who are apparently the new Communists, and the tests will be used to dismantle the public education system. The implication that our teachers are any less skilled or that they love their students less than a Swiss, Swedish, or Japanese teacher is insulting and has no basis in research.

[bbgrunt]

16. well said!

[wtmusic]

17. Accountability is required in every job, and teaching is no exception.

It's difficult to measure, but unless you have a better way to demonstrate "intellectual growth" we're left with less than perfect methods to ensure the employee is doing what they're being paid to do.

Just like every other job.

[sudopod]

20. Absolutely! The question is, what broke?

Being an engineer, I don't have an easy answer to our question in my pocket. However, there are lots of suggestions out there for alternatives for measuring progress, and many successful alternate educational systems similar to ours. Teachers in those places are treated with the respect due to someone with such an important job. Hell, we built the most successful nation on earth (up till recently) based on the old system. They had accountability back then, didn't they?

I must admit that I do not like the implication that all of our educational problems are due to our teachers. That is, frankly, horseshit. A Danish teacher does not do anything wildly different than an American teacher, nor are they any more motivated. I doubt Japanese teachers love their charges more than ours (or vice versa). Their tools are mostly the same; their textbooks have mostly the same history and mathematics in them (though they may get more biology lol). The same can be said for the teachers of 20, 50, and 70 years ago, the teachers whose students invented the microprocessor, heart transplants, and landed men on the moon. Teachers and students should not be subjected to this kind of humiliating treatment. It is not necessary. This travesty is done for one reason and one reason only -- to appease the right.

It is my belief that there is an ugly reason that this witch hunt for "lazy" teachers who are "leaching off of our education system" is allowed to go on. The reason our schools are failing is cultural. Our culture does not value learning or history or mathematics. We are consumers, and we are drones. We are conditioned to work soulless jobs and consume things and not to dream. No amount of idiot bubble tests will fix that, but you can't tell the public that, oh no. America is the greatest and bestest forevar, and if you question that, you must be some sort of terrorist, or worse, a hippy.

[wtmusic]

24. I agree that culturally we're on a junk food diet, and that doesn't help

but I don't see any implication by Duncan that "all of our educational problems are due to our teachers". As a parent of two high school kids, I feel that some of our educational problems are due to some of our teachers, and we can't get rid of the bad ones (Duncan is going after incompetent administrators as well).

The Finnish system is often held up as a model, but many people don't realize that Finnish teachers can be fired immediately for breaches of conduct. In our largest school systems (the ones most plagued by poor scores) that's virtually impossible, and a relatively new development. American teachers of 50 years ago - the ones whose students invented the microprocessor, heart transplants, and landed men on the moon - could also be fired relatively quickly and easily for not doing their job. Sometimes that led to firings which were not justified or personally motivated, but unfortunately that's a part of any job. And to me it's interesting that the most dedicated of my kids' teachers are not concerned about losing their job, while the ones who never respond to my emails or requests for meetings squawk the loudest.

Unfortunately Republicans and corporate interests have gained a foothold, and that's a problem. Charter schools are not the answer; bankrupting American public education is not the answer. But more than anything it's the result of unions' intransigence on the tenure issue.

[sudopod]

26. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on this

"But more than anything it's the result of unions' intransigence on the tenure issue."

There are a lot of problems, but teachers having some job security isn't one of them. There are bad teachers who are protected, sure, but one dumb 7th grade Social Studies teacher won't ruin a child's life. Moreover, for every Finland with "right to work" style environments, there are other nations that have strong civil servant protections.

If we were to compare the impact of bad teachers vs. our cultural problems, I think it is obvious which one has the largest impact. It isn't the one that the media and the powers that be seem fixated on, however. It is much easier to break a powerful union than to teach people the value of curiosity and wonder.

[wtmusic]

30. When the termination rate is 1/200th of what it is for other professions

there's a problem. Too many bad teachers are being protected, and the unions would do more to aid their own cause by facing up to that fact.

[sudopod]

31. I think we can both agree that it is not THE problem.

and it is certainly no basis for breaking the union and the entire edifice of modern education, to replace it with privately-directed charter schools. Schools that will not teach children about Shakespeare, Picasso, and Newton, but how to do well on bubble tests.

Do not lose sight of the forest for the trees.

(btw, where does that 1/200 number come from?)

[thanks_imjustlurking]

43. "btw, where does that 1/200 number come from?"

Crickets.....

[sudopod]

44. lol nt

[wtmusic]

53. Here you go

Sorry for the delay.

"In New York City, the cost to fire one incompetent tenured teacher is about $250,000, said Education Department spokeswoman Melody Meyer. She said that of 55,000 teachers on staff, 10 were fired last year."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25430476

That's an annual termination rate of .02 percent.

Involuntary termination in the private sector is somewhere between 2-8% annually, depending on whose numbers you believe. Here is a source that quotes a .4% rate for small business in the month of December 2009:

"Retention/Employee Stability – Measuring the share of employees who remained in a company (retention) as compared to measuring those who left (terminations), involuntary retention was 99.6 percent and voluntary retention was 99.3 percent, indicating a total rate of termination of 1.1 percent in December. This compared with a termination rate of 1.3 percent in December 2009."

http://www.trinet.com/documents/smbeat/trinet_smbeat1210.pdf

Annualized that's 3.6%. 3.6/.02 = 180. An employee is 180x more likely to be fired in the private sector than in New York city schools. Los Angeles Unified School District is slightly lower.

An example of how hard it is to fire a teacher (who should be in jail) in LAUSD:

"The eighth-grade boy held out his wrists for teacher Carlos Polanco to see.

He had just explained to Polanco and his history classmates at Virgil Middle School in Koreatown why he had been absent: He had been in the hospital after an attempt at suicide.

Polanco looked at the cuts and said they "were weak," according to witness accounts in documents filed with the state. "Carve deeper next time," he was said to have told the boy."

<>

"The Los Angeles school board, citing Polanco's poor judgment, voted to fire him. But Polanco, who contended that he had been misunderstood, kept his job. A little-known review commission overruled the board, saying that although the teacher had made the statements, he had meant no harm."


http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers3-2009may03,0,679507.story?page=1

This from the LA Weekly (alternative news source):

"But the Weekly has found, in a five-month investigation, that principals and school district leaders have all but given up dismissing such teachers. In the past decade, LAUSD officials spent $3.5 million trying to fire just seven of the district's 33,000 teachers for poor classroom performance — and only four were fired, during legal struggles that wore on, on average, for five years each. Two of the three others were paid large settlements, and one was reinstated. The average cost of each battle is $500,000."

http://www.laweekly.com/2010-02-11/news/lausd-s-dance-of-the-lemons/

[sudopod]

58. That isn't exactly what you implied with that figure, wt. ;) nt

[wtmusic]

62. That's exactly what I implied. nt

[sudopod]

65. Rates for one city in one year don't equate to a statistic that covers the entire country

Surely you see that?

[TheKentuckian]

61. Why would you compare this one profession against all public sector jobs?

How does teaching termination compare to other professionals? Masters degree or equivalent?

This is more grab bag of lazy but purposeful talking points to sell noise.

[wtmusic]

63. OK, I'll throw in a factor of 100.

Incompetent teachers are 18x more likely to keep their jobs than incompetent architects. Better? :eyes:

[TheKentuckian]

127. I'd like to see some evidence of the whole concept.

Professionals aren't in the same Universe in turnover as fast food, retail, customer service, or whatever.

Hell, I'd say mechanics have super low turnover compared to the "average".

This whole deal seems like a Rushtistic.

[sudopod]

66. It is not even a valid statistic. :/ nt

[wtmusic]

69. Why not? nt

[sudopod]

73. Well, n =1 for starters.

"Statistic" implies a larger sample. While the one you cite is valid that year in NYC, it does not follow that the entire country is the same, nor that the rate is constant even in NYC.

Also, the point the other poster made about comparing professional degree holding jobs with each other, rather than all professions was a good one.

Another poster mentioned the high drop-out rate after the first year, which should also be taken into any account of "job safety".

TL;DR, the job isn't easy street.

[rpannier]

93. And that's all fine and good

The question is why did they have such a difficult time getting rid of those teachers?

My father is a retired Federal Administrative Law Judge and there are procedures that must be followed before a city, county, state, etc can fire a worker.
If you don't follow those procedures, if you engage in actions that are unfair to the employee, etc the organization trying to fire will lose.

The fact they have had so little success and/or had such a difficult time could also speak to them having not acted in accordance with the law or withe the contracts they have signed.
They could have lied, they could have engaged in coercive behavior, etc.

Businesses and government agencies that lose often tend to lose because they don't follow the law.

[Mrs. Ted Nancy]

48. Almost 10% of teachers leave the profession

every year. Almost half of the teachers that started their first teaching job 5 years ago are no longer teaching. Charter schools have a higher yearly turnover rate than public schools (almost 20%).

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2010/2010353.pdf

http://www.crpe.org/cs/crpe/download/csr_files/pub_ics_Attrition_Sep10.pdf

[RaleighNCDUer]

96. Do you REALLY think that teachers are being fired at 1/200th the rate

of lawyers being disbarred, or doctors losing their licenses?

I can make up figures, too. Teachers are being fired at 200x the rate that doctors or lawyers are removed from their professions.

But you know what? I distinctly remember a mass-firing of teachers in Rhode Island - I've never heard of a mass firing of all doctors, nurses, and support staff at a hospital due to a high number of malpractice suits.

So which made up figures do you think is closer to correct?

[wtmusic]

105. I know they are.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1177905&mesg_id=1182528

[blackspade]

102. Actual stats please.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Thank you

[wtmusic]

56. There's a difference between security and abuse.

Some teachers are abusing the system. They need to be let go, and the district shouldn't have to pay half a $million to get the job done either.

[sudopod]

59. On the other hand, should destroy the system to save it from a few bad teachers? nt

[wtmusic]

64. Who's advocating destroying the system? nt

[sudopod]

67. IMHO, replacing public schools with privately run charters qualifies as destruction. nt

[wtmusic]

68. Great. Now please show me where I said I support charter schools. nt

[sudopod]

74. whups! nt

[sudopod]

75. If you don't, that's great!

But it seems to be linked into the testing regimen that you do support and is a favorite of the Secretary. Schools that fail the tests often get transformed into charter schools.

[wtmusic]

104. Fair enough.

Though in general I think the administration is making necessary changes, they're shooting themselves in the foot by privatizing education.

My sister's kids attended a charter in Chicago. It was much better than the public alternatives, for them. But -- they had to "test into" the school to attend, and already there was evidence of the "separate but equal" shit that we were supposed to have left behind 40 years ago. That tells me in ten years the federal government will be in the business of subsidizing prep schools in well-off (mostly white) areas, while inner city schools will be corrupt factories with manufactured test scores, and kids with manufactured educations.

What provided traction for the charter movement was teachers' union's resistance to teacher evaluations and tenure. We have to find some way to measure the job a teacher is doing, and fire the truly rotten ones. It's unfair to kids, and it's unfair to the vast majority of teachers who work their asses off. If it's true (or even close) that we have to spend $500,000 to fire a teacher who goaded a student to kill himself, that money would have hired at least ten new teachers for a year. And ironically, if you ask a younger teacher why he/she is leaving the profession you may find unions are to blame. Why? When layoffs hit, even if they're doing a terrific job, motivating kids and going the extra mile, they get the pink slip - while older teachers who sit on their asses and go through the motions keep their jobs.

My kids are in a small district (adjacent to LAUSD) which is extraordinarily well-run and responsive. We got lucky, and they'll be out in three years. But my heart goes out to parents whose kids are just entering school who will have to deal with the massive clusterfuck of an administration and a union who are both going in the wrong direction.

[sudopod]

110. I definitely see where you're coming from.

Especially in the case of NYC, which has some...legacy issues from the corrupt politics of several decades ago. NYC is a bit of a special case, though, and is not really representative of the nation as a whole. In most of the country, especially here in the Southeast, things are much tougher for teachers. In rural districts, they endure wages that wouldn't excite a graduate research assistant. Southern teachers especially suffer from a relative lack of union protection. They're barely holding on down here, with Wisconsin-style union busting laws falling like rain these days. There are problem teachers, true, but there are problem workers anywhere. And I think we can both agree that 80-year-old Mrs. Zzzzzzz who phones it in every day is not at the root of the reason our children isn't learning. She's been there forever. ;)

You are totally right in that last paragraph, though. It's going to be rough going for kids, isn't it?

[wtmusic]

114. I probably am biased because of my proximity

to the largest school district in the nation.

And as a union member myself, I'm definitely not anti-union, although I do think sometimes they're guilty of the same lack of foresight the Dept. of Education is. And ultimately I don't think we'd even be having this discussion if taxes on the rich were higher, but that's another subject...

:thumbsup:

[sudopod]

115. haha! amen to that! nt

[Occulus]

70. 1/200th suddenly becomes "some"

You're just playing games.

[wtmusic]

107. When it costs half a $million to fire a bad teacher, it's a big "some".

It would have paid an excellent salary to ten good teachers for a year.

Don't you support teachers? :shrug:

[Pholus]

126. When a teacher can be fired for a remark NOT AT WORK it is also a big "some"

So where is the happy medium?

[Enthusiast]

83. Some in every profession

are abusing the system. This is true as never before. But these anti-teacher measures are not the solution.

[Smarmie Doofus]

50. Examples of this would be illuminating:

>>>> (Duncan is going after incompetent administrators as well).>>>

And "incompetent"?

Or just disobedient?

[Pholus]

90. Wow. So immediate termination solves everything? What a motivator YOU are!

Perhaps administrators should carry a pistol for summary executions as well.

If only I had *ever* seen a school administrator fired for lack of performance. Or an education executive.

Yes, accountability is missing. AT THE TOP.

[olegramps]

103. Teachers can't be fired is pure bull shit.

Every contract has provisions in which the teacher can be fired for misconduct. And while you are throwing out accusations, name those teachers who should be terminated in the school that your kids attend with specific facts to back up your claim. Have you notified the principal and the school board about your concerns?

[wtmusic]

108. No, it's not.

If you think the teacher described in this article should be still teaching (he is), we have nothing to talk about.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers3-2009may03,0,679507.story?page=1

[Pholus]

119. Well, this teacher got it over a BUMPER STICKER. Foretaste of CHARTER SCHOOL teacher life.

http://www.care2.com/causes/education/blog/arizona-teacher-fired-over-bumper-sticker/

So you really wanna talk?

[olegramps]

124. You pull out one stinking example and blow it up.

I read the article and it fails to provide an evidence. I want to see hard evidence that a teacher is failing and not a bunch of hearsay bull shit. I believe that there are probably more cases in which people have a grudge or religious and political reasons to attempt to remove a teacher than actual cases of incompetence. If there is an actual case of incompetence than I look to administration to document their case. It is evident that they can even do that correctly.

[Angry Dragon]

28. +1000

[BREMPRO]

77. well said.. too often the "cultural" failing of our society are ignored in this debate..

"The reason our schools are failing is cultural. Our culture does not value learning or history or mathematics. We are consumers, and we are drones. We are conditioned to work soulless jobs and consume things and not to dream. No amount of idiot bubble tests will fix that, but you can't tell the public that, oh no. America is the greatest and bestest forevar, and if you question that, you must be some sort of terrorist, or worse, a hippy. "



agreed...

[Enthusiast]

82. You might be an engineer

but I believe you could serve in Arne Duncan's position and achieve better results.

And it is horseshit! Right on!

[immoderate]

21. Destruction be damned! If we arrest the innocent we can surely stamp out crime.

Since there seems to be no other way, we'll just have to use the one that doesn't work!

Next project: Let's disbar lawyers who lose more than 50% of their cases!

--imm

[wtmusic]

25. You may find that lawyers who lose a disproportionate number of cases

have a harder time finding work. The same should be true of incompetent teachers.

[immoderate]

40. Don't confuse work with compensation.

Or competence with data.

When two competent lawyers face off. One will lose. And I don't think the competence of the lawyer should depend on whether their client is determined to be a criminal. Who would want to represent criminals?

It's generally beyond a teacher's control to affect aggregate scores, but they can predict who will do well, and that's assuming the teaching is not a factor. :shrug: Kind of begs the question, don't it?

--imm

[olegramps]

106. The schools that are failing share a common cause.

It is basically poverty. I looked at the test results in our city of nearly two million people and every school that had students that were under performing had a high number of students on breakfast and free or reduced cost lunch programs. Every school in the wealthy and high middle class areas with few or no kids in these programs were excelling. Another important fact was that those schools that were under achieving the goals had a high percentage of kids that were not proficient in English. I also have a great concern about kids that came from poverty and the long range effects that improper diet and can have on both mental and physical development. What we should be concerned with is breaking the cycle of poverty in stead of beating a dead horse. If a parent is so dmaned concerned about a teacher then take it up with the school and seek a solution, but I don't buy the crap that is being heaped on the teachers. As for the cost of firing a teacher, perhaps those in charge are so damn incompetent that they can't make a good case. The citing of one or two instances doesn't lead to the condemnation of the entire system.

[liberalhistorian]

23. The problem is that in most other jobs, the fact

that workers do not have total control over everything they use to do their jobs is factored into accountability. For instance, a factory worker doesn't have control over the quality of the raw materials used in making their widgets. Doctors can give advice and document that advice, but cannot make the patient follow it and, if the patient doesn't follow it and it is documented that the advice was given, then they are let off the hook. You get the drift.

Yet, teachers are held totally responsible for factors over which they have NO control and which play a huge role in the success of students. They have no control over family and home life, whether or not there's abuse and neglect, parental attitudes toward education, etc. They cannot follow each student home and make them do their homework and/or study. They cannot make parents be interested in their children's education so that they ensure children are cooperating in school. They have no control over the amount of books and supplies in their classroom and, in fact, will often spend hundreds of dollars of their own money each year getting additional supplies and materials. I grew up with teachers, I saw all the shit they had to deal with and the lack of appreciation, respect and compensation.

[wtmusic]

27. IMO that's true in teaching too

Administrators in general want to show good test scores, they want to be able to show a low dropout rate. They're not blind to the lack of funding that teachers face or the backgrounds their students come from. And in fact teachers are not held totally responsible based on test scores - it's one metric, and one metric only. But it's a valid one, if it measures improvement.

[Angry Dragon]

32. Teaching to the test is unfair

If it is a fair measure how do you measure the student before they start school??

[quaker bill]

47. Not really true

I am sorry, it is a lovely rightwing talking point, but it is not true, at least not at anywhere near this level.

I have worked plenty of jobs where the standard for accountability was showing up on time and sort of doing what was placed in front of you. Lots of folks there did just that, they showed up, generally sober on most days, and did whatever the boss asked for in some manner that was not too objectionable. They generally did not advance, but they generally did not lose their jobs either. Most of this experience was in the private sector.

Teachers are being held to a standard of accountability rarely applied elsewhere. Doctors do not have to cure every patient. The tests are designed to create the impression of failure, and if they don't the tests and standards are adjusted to create the desired result. Curiously, they are pushed by the same folks selling the "cure", so go figure.

Bottom line, the US population as a whole has never had a higher level of average academic achievement. The US population has never had a higher proportion of HS graduates, bachelors and advance degrees. In this context, the education system is seen as "failing". We would be blessed if other things could "fail" this well.

[wtmusic]

55. Must be nice to have a job where you just have to show up "generally sober".

IMO in a job that pays $44,000/year taxpayers have a right to expect a little more. :eyes:

"Doctors do not have to cure every patient." Where did you get that straw man from? Teachers are not being judged on scores, they're being judged on improvement in scores - and that's only one metric.

[sudopod]

78. $44,000/year ? LOL nt

[Pholus]

118. I expected at lot more for Michelle Rhee's $275000 but we just got PHB lite.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/03/AR2007070302299.html

[Pholus]

88. Really? I've noticed that administration and finance jobs seems fairly unaccountable recently.

But they are the masters of our universe and we should bow to them.

[Sancho]

95. We do know how to measure complex performance...

but who wants to spend $10,000 per teacher to ensure that we measure them accurately every year. Just like you see a doctor with a fever - they aren't going to run $10,000 of tests to make sure you don't have some exotic disease unless there's a reason to do so. They also don't assume that a simple measure like your temperature can evaluate your entire health!

The problem is using simple measures that are NOT valid for the purpose. A bubble test is pretty good at telling you if someone can do certain math problems or read certain words. Some of those tests are excellent at measuring growth for a given area of intellect if you don't over generalize.

Actually, most professions don't measure every bit of employee performances. Most evaluations are done by observations with a few occasional benchmarks that are collected as important in particular jobs. That can be done in education; and it has been done. It's just easier to have the boss evaluate employees than create a million little things to measure, but with new technology there are more and more efforts to continually track employee performance. Schools have had observations of teachers and annual evaluations (including samples of student work and test scores) for decades!

Florida has had "tenure" for years (called continuing contracts) and the legislature wants to get rid of it - but about 3000 Florida teachers had contracts "non-renewed" last year, so you can fire a bad teacher if you follow the rules and document they are bad. It's a myth that you can't. You can't abuse the process and fire experienced teachers without a documented reason - and making a spot to hire your in-laws is not a valid reason! Our GOP friends HATE the idea that they have to follow the rules and can't just do whatever they please, but accountability has always been part of school employment back to the beginning of public schools!

The standardized test and value-added models don't work well for teacher evaluation, but politicians are determined to use something to dismantle public schools and that is the snake oil that they are selling! I'm convinced the real agenda is to privatize schools and get rid of public employee unions, and steal some public money.

[ehrnst]

100. Sorry - bad metrics can create bad performance in order to meet them.

For instance, a guy that worked at Amazon.com in customer service was told that they would be rated more highly on their performance reviews if they had shorter call times, and his call times would be averaged out. They figured that would impel customer service reps to solve problems quickly.

He just hung up afer a few seconds on every 3rd call, and his performance reviews were great!

Standardized tests impel teachers to teach kids to answer the question on the test - often at the expense of teaching them to solve problems, and use creativity.

[sudopod]

111. Reminds me of the story of the Soviet chandelier factory.

Their new performance metric was kilograms of chandeliers produced each period. So the managers said 'OK' and arranged to manufacture 1/2 ton lead chandeliers. :3

[drokhole]

112. Thought you might enjoy this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

...sorry, didn't know which of your responses to attach this to, but thought it related well to your fantastic I question the metric of "improvement" post. Your idea of "confusing the measurement for what is being measured" is spot on, and has been elaborated brilliantly on by a philosopher named Alan Watts. Here is one of his many insights on schooling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X1OmSf4bf8

I tried to throw my hat in the ring on ideas for reforming education here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x583919

And this, if you have the time (it's a fairly lengthy read), lays the problems out explicitly (the title is provocative, but it's meant to be that way):

http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0303critic/030301studentasnigger.html

[sudopod]

113. Thanks for the infos! +1000 to your article! nt

[drokhole]

117. Thanks, hope they are of some use!

And your insight in this thread is appreciated as well!

[JackRiddler]

54. A brilliant post and it's a shame that it will go wasted on some...

those who already have their tiny-minded talking points invincibly in place.

[Enthusiast]

84. RW talking points are firmly entrenched. nt

[Enthusiast]

81. Perfectly said

I agree completely.

[blackspade]

98. excellent rebuttal.

[montanto]

33. They showed great improvement across the board in

Texas years ago. The Texas Miracle!!!! When you hide / exclude the numbers you don't like, you can make anything look great.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. I want to know why Rod Paige isn't in jail

[Reader Rabbit]

52. I'd like to know the same thing about Michelle Rhee.

I guess it isn't a crime when you lie, cheat, and steal to build yourself an imaginary career as an "educator."

[sudopod]

60. Reader Rabbit! That game was AWESOME. :D nt

[ehrnst]

101. Do we trust Duncan to say he's doing a good job, but not the teachers? (nt)

[RainDog]

7. k/r n/t

[Aerows]

8. K & R

That was an absolutely awesome letter, and he pretty much eviscerated Duncan with FACTS.

[bobbolink]

9. Who was it who put Arne Duncan in that position?

[Erose999]

11. The neoliberal we all voted for on his platform of "hope & change" put Duncan in power. I guess the

joke is ultimately on us.

[bobbolink]

13. Yes, the joke is on us. Suckers.

[Enthusiast]

85. This is the really curious part.

And it isn't just Arne Duncan, it is Geither, Larry Summers and others. I fear we have been had.

[bobbolink]

121. Yes, we were had. Some of us saw it coming.

And, no.....that isn't about the primaries.

It is about the comprehensive state of the whole rotten party.

So, where do we go from here? More of the same being had, over and over and over and .....

[Erose999]

10. Great letter! Rec'd. Duncan is a jerky, he needs to go.

[Forkboy]

12. Damn! Righteous letter!

:thumbsup:

[Fumesucker]

15. K&R, thanks for posting..

[immoderate]

18. K, R, and this letter great!

--imm

[LetTimmySmoke]

19. K&R

Our profession is being fucked up.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

22. k and r

[montanto]

29. Well said David Reber, well said. k&r

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. You had me right up until "a 500% drop in socioeconomic status"

Please stick with teaching biology and not math Dave.

[Occulus]

71. I'll give him a pass and say "sticky zero key".

50% is about right, at least from what I've seen happen with about everyone I know.

[DirkGently]

35. YES. Should be required reading for anyone purporting to speak about "education reform."

[ceile]

39. K&R

[Fly by night]

41. Fine letter, Mr. Reber. You can thank a teacher, not a bureaucrat, for being able to write it.

'Nuf said.

[MichiganVote]

42. Teachers in Michigan are too busy fighting Snyder to support this jackass or Obama

They are just hoping to survive. No one is giving money to elections and all x-tra time is going into recalls or fights to maintain collective bargaining.

[checks-n-balances]

49. I think this man (or his clone) should consider running for office

And the sooner the better. TERRIFIC LETTER!!!

[Fearless]

51. Exactly! +10000

[Starry Messenger]

57. k&r

[Enthusiast]

79. K&R That is excellent.

Arne Duncan is just another in a long line of curious appointments by President Obama.

Is President Obama a corporatist? What is he exactly? Of course I never did believe the stupid claims that Obama is a Muslim or a socialist. But if his White House doesn't represent teachers, who do they represent? Mr. Obama needs to get on a pair of comfortable shoes and relearn his priorities.

[LittleGirl]

86. Mr. Reber is now my hero

That's the best 'kick you in the teeth' letter I've ever read.

Beautiful!

I wanted to be a teacher...I have a natural talent for it and all of my professional positions included training adults...but then I saw the pay? forgetaboutit.

[TBF]

87. Best thing I've read on DU this week - Bravo! And a big K&R nt

[Octafish]

89. ''What they call paranoia I call paying attention.''

Now THAT's a letter!

Thank you, FourScore.

[MasonJar]

91. Awesome letter, Mr. Reber. I hope Duncan reads it. As a retired

teacher of English and Humanities in Louisville, Kentucky, please allow me to say that you speak for me. In fact you speak so well that I freely admit "I couldn't have said it better myself."

[MasonJar]

92. Awesome letter, Mr. Reber. I hope Duncan reads it. As a retired teacher

of English and Humanities in Louisville, Kentucky, I want to congratulate you for speaking up for me. In fact you speak so eloquently, that I freely admit that "I couldn't have said it better myself."

[Pacifist Patriot]

94. Wow, that's brilliantly stated!

[blackspade]

97. Freakin' AWESOME!

This guy is spot on, especially on calling Arne out for his heavy handed approach to 'reforming' the teaching profession.

[myrna minx]

99. K&R n/t

[drokhole]

109. I absolutely love that letter. And the doctor/police officer analogy is brilliant...

...I also believe the "blame the teacher" mentality is an incredible cop-out for the inherently flawed factory-like structure of our education system. I couldn't put it any better than this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U

Though, I tried to here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x583919

I absolutely love this philosophical approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X1OmSf4bf8

And feel that, if you can get past the provocative title, this lays it out explicitly bare:

http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0303critic/030301studentasnigger.html

[ItNerd4life]

120. I give this letter a 'D'. Poorly written, all over the place

and full of hyperbole, just like he claims Duncan's letter was.

I really laughed at this line: Your condescension continues with "developing better assessments so will have useful information to guide instruction..." Excuse me, but I am a skilled, experienced, and licensed professional

Any professional who understands change is willing to learn and improve, this teacher sounds like he doesn't want too.

I just get dumbfounded that people like this teacher think the status quo is okay. We have kids failing in lower income schools all the time
and these teachers only want to throw more money at the problem instead of actually trying to solve the problem.

[Pholus]

122. You seem to imply that the problems can be fixed without additional money.

And to put it in your "skilled, experienced and licensed professional" IT talk it's kind of like saying you'll get higher quality yet cheaper IT work from outsourcing to India.

Now that might work for you, but my tech support experiences with India say that while it's cheaper I got exactly what I paid for and it isn't as good as what was lost.

So let's hear your plans then. The only ideas I've heard that lowers costs as you've described are that you could replace the current crop of teachers with lower paid, less experienced teachers who are as easily replaced as a burger flipper. The "Then a miracle occurs" step is that somehow you get more better teachers from this. Like the outsourcing idea, I think that is a joke in and of itself. But perhaps you are talking about some new deeper more brilliant plan.

[sudopod]

123. "and these teachers only want to throw more money at the problem instead"

All I hear is "herp derp derp derp"