Consistency Check: Did anyone who is now slamming Schultz agree with Cornel West

[apples and oranges]

when he referred to President Obama as a "black puppet" and black mascot for Wall Street???

[fishwax]

1. Consistency check: did anyone now defending the use of "slut" attack West?

[EFerrari]

17. LOL

:)

[Hannah Bell]

2. huh? the connection is....?

[blondeatlast]

8. Apples to oranges...

The OP is well-named.

[apples and oranges]

9. How is it apples to oranges? Cornel West's comments received over 300 recs

Cornel West attacked Obama's race and there was little outcry. I can't help but wonder why the republican Ms. Ingraham is treated better than the democratic President.

[Hannah Bell]

10. he attacked obama's race? what?

[EFerrari]

16. West did not attack Obama's race.

Ed Shultz made a mistake and corrected it.

The situations were nothing alike.

[aquart]

3. Interesting that you're only concerned about one kind of West's slurs.

But I'm equally pissed at racism, anti-Semitism, and sexism. And, yes, I've seen West.

[apples and oranges]

4. I'll freely admit to attacking West, only because he is being counterproductive

Attacking democrats will only hurt our cause even more. I guess you could say that I defend democrats against unfair attacks. I don't have time to defend republicans.

[JackintheGreen]

5. #1 Yes

#2 West has a "privilege" of membership within a specific community which (right or wrong) makes such statements more acceptable

#3 It is not the same thing at all: Ed's attack was ad hominem and based on a characteristic upon which Ingraham has no control (her gender), while West's attack was rooted in a policy critique.

's my take, at least

[Karenina]

6. "West's attack was rooted in a policy critique."

Coulda been but he blew it, being too wrapped up in grinding his axe. West's attack was ad hominem and based on a characteristic upon which Obama has no control (his parentage.)

[JackintheGreen]

7. Um, yeah. Did you see the interview with RT?

I tried to find a transcript but could only find the video here:

http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/04/cornel-west-as-obama-becomes-a-puppet-america-in-the-midst-of-a-radical-democratic-awakening/

The question which prompted Dr. West to call Obama a "pawn of big finance and a puppet of big business" starts at about the 2.30 mark.

It's a reasoned response that is characteristic of Wests inflammatory rhetoric. You can also see here:

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/the_obama_deception_why_cornel_west_went_ballistic_20110516/

which dates about 5 weeks later but, again, outlines the reasoning behind West's statement to RT.

[Karenina]

14. The RT interview is completely "sauber"

and I have NO PROBLEM with the pawn and puppet characterization.

I rarely do this anymore, however your reply has inspired me to try to focus your attention on the "dog whistles" Professor West used. In my particular community these quotes from the Hedges piece you link are COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE:

"I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men,” West says. “It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin. All he has known culturally is white. He is just as human as I am, but that is his cultural formation. When he meets an independent black brother, it is frightening. And that’s true for a white brother. When you get a white brother who meets a free, independent black man, they got to be mature to really embrace fully what the brother is saying to them. It’s a tension, given the history. It can be overcome. Obama, coming out of Kansas influence, white, loving grandparents, coming out of Hawaii and Indonesia, when he meets these independent black folk who have a history of slavery, Jim Crow, Jane Crow and so on, he is very apprehensive. He has a certain rootlessness, a deracination. It is understandable.

“He feels most comfortable with upper middle-class white and Jewish men who consider themselves very smart, very savvy and very effective in getting what they want,” he says. “He’s got two homes. He has got his family and whatever challenges go on there, and this other home. Larry Summers blows his mind because he’s so smart. He’s got Establishment connections. He’s embracing me. It is this smartness, this truncated brilliance, that titillates and stimulates brother Barack and makes him feel at home. That is very sad for me."

Should you wish to understand WHY this is such an volatile issue for a segment of the American citizenry, I would welcome any questions you have.

[JackintheGreen]

19. Then I honestly don't get what this disagreement is about

I was really referring to the RT interview (not primarily to the Hedges piece) in which West lays out his reasoning behind the puppet characterization. West says, "Based on the shadow financial system, are making billions and billions of dollars as poor and working people are pushed to the margins. More and more working class persons who though they had a secure existence recognize that their plight is more tied to the plight of poor people," and West doesn't see Obama as doing enough about this disparity. He says is the follow up question that Obama has "aligned himself with forces that promote the abandonment of poor people and the neglect of working people."

This is his critique - a critique on Obama's policy of catering to the wealthy and the interests of the "shadow financial system" over the interests of the poor and working classes. And it is only after laying out this critique that he characterizes Obama as a pawn and a puppet.

I agree that the quotes you pulled out of Hedges are unacceptable. This appears to me to be essentially a complaint about Obama's "uncle tomming." That's how I understand West's critique (though I disagree with it). It does not change the central thesis of his complaint from a month earlier in the RT interview. Essentially: Obama has forsaken the poor and the working class - for reasons we'll leave be for the moment - and has become instead a pawn of the oligarchy. As I said originally, this is a *policy based* critique.

Now, for the broader question raised by the quotes used by Hedges. Is West complaining that Obama isn't "black enough," a canard that gets discussed freely here in Philadelphia? Has he been fooled and manipulated by people somehow smarter than him (as words like puppet and pawn seem to suggest)? I think both of these characterizations are invidious charges that do nothing to move the conversation forward. I agree with you that THESE are completely unacceptable, and they certainly ring more true as ad hominem attacks.

As is so often the case with Dr. West, he starts from a fine place in which many of us can agree and then just shoots off the rails at blinding speed.

This is how I see it. I'd welcome your thoughts.

[Karenina]

20. I should very much like for you to, from this corner of the intersection.

As previously stated, I have NO PROBLEM with the RT interview. It's clean and to the point.

However, I no more appreciate the good professor's axe grinding than I do Glenn Beck's characterization of the POTUS having deep-seated problems with the white race. WHAT INDEED THE FUCK WOULD HE KNOW ABOUT GROWING UP IN A MULTIRACIAL AND MULTICULTURAL FAMILY? I offer the same question to the righteous professor. It's vile and disgusting psychobabble in public discourse and appeals to the lowest (having NO CLUE but many opinions) common denominator. Rule #1: Don't go be talkin' shit about anybody's mama unless you're looking for a fight. VERY BAD FORM and should the dear brother appear before me now in a vision, I'd smack him upside his head into next week. Deracination, indeed. :rofl:

"Now, for the broader question raised by the quotes used by Hedges. Is West complaining that Obama isn't "black enough," a canard that gets discussed freely here in Philadelphia?"

DUDE! To MY ears he called him an oreo 'fraid o' "REAL" BLACK MEN'S PEENIES cuz even tho' his father was a brilliant, strong, AFRICAN man, his AMERICAN mama was white!!! I cannot bear it which is why I'm an ex-pat.

"I think both of these characterizations are invidious charges that do nothing to move the conversation forward. I agree with you that THESE are completely unacceptable, and they certainly ring more true as ad hominem attacks."

THAT is where to focus your attention and where that sentence should have appeared.

Has he been fooled and manipulated by people somehow smarter than him (as words like puppet and pawn seem to suggest)?

Those are topics open to legitimate discussion LEAVING HIS MAMA AND OMA OUT OF IT! (than he. Sorry, I know it's a losing battle since Wendy and Peter's exchange so long ago! When was the last time you said, It is I? :rofl:)

"As is so often the case with Dr. West, he starts from a fine place in which many of us can agree and then just shoots off the rails at blinding speed."

For no good reason other than dick-waving. We've see LOTS of that lately, eh? :rofl::rofl::rofl: :facepalm: :freak:

Robert Klein's appeal to the POTUS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqW1crr1TZc

Tante K.

[provis99]

11. twist it any way you like, your position is just flat-out hypocrisy.

But hypocrisy seems to be acceptable at DU.

[JackintheGreen]

13. Who's twisting? I admitted to criticizing both

and only then did I lay out my reasons for seeing each in different terms.

[msanthrope]

18. West's critique of Obama was based on his white parentage--his 'Kansas' influence.

"I think my dear brother Barack Obama has a certain fear of free black men. It’s understandable. As a young brother who grows up in a white context, brilliant African father, he’s always had to fear being a white man with black skin. All he has known culturally is white. He is just as human as I am, but that is his cultural formation. When he meets an independent black brother, it is frightening. And that’s true for a white brother. When you get a white brother who meets a free, independent black man, they got to be mature to really embrace fully what the brother is saying to them. It’s a tension, given the history. It can be overcome. Obama, coming out of Kansas influence, white, loving grandparents, coming out of Hawaii and Indonesia, when he meets these independent black folk who have a history of slavery, Jim Crow, Jane Crow and so on, he is very apprehensive. He has a certain rootlessness, a deracination."

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/05/17/cornel-west-worries-about-barack-obama-s-kansas-influence.aspx

[seabeyond]

12. um... this slammin ed. is it sying yea ed, you did good with apology? what exactly

is slammin ed. cause i havent seen slammin. there is a bet of discussion why it is not ok to call a woman a slut. but that is slammin duers that hate that ed apologized.

i didnt like what west said. was disappointed.

i didnt like ed using slut. and yea, he apologized now move on.

slammin?

[Yupster]

15. I can never make heads or tails of what Cornel West is saying

I'm obviously too simple for so great a mind as his.