I'm watching "How to Die in Oregon" and wondering, what does DU think of physician assisted suicide?

[Electric Monk]

Poll question: I'm watching "How to Die in Oregon" and wondering, what does DU think of physician assisted suicide?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Death_with_Dignity_Act

Under the law, a capable adult Oregon resident who has been diagnosed, by a physician, with a terminal illness that will kill the patient within six months may request in writing, from his or her physician, a prescription for a lethal dose of medication for the purpose of ending the patient's life. Exercise of the option under this law is voluntary and the patient must initiate the request. Any physician, pharmacist or healthcare provider who has moral objections may refuse to participate.

The request must be confirmed by two witnesses, at least one of whom is not related to the patient, is not entitled to any portion of the patient's estate, is not the patient's physician, and is not employed by a health care facility caring for the patient. After the request is made, another physician must examine the patient's medical records and confirm the diagnosis. The patient must be determined to be free of a mental condition impairing judgment. If the request is authorized, the patient must wait at least fifteen days and make a second oral request before the prescription may be written. The patient has a right to rescind the request at any time. Should either physician have concerns about the patient's ability to make an informed decision, or feel the patient's request may be motivated by depression or coercion, the patient must be referred for a psychological evaluation.

The law protects doctors from liability for providing a lethal prescription for a terminally ill, competent adult in compliance with the statute's restrictions. Participation by physicians, pharmacists, and health care providers is voluntary. The law also specifies a patient's decision to end his or her life shall not "have an effect upon a life, health, or accident insurance or annuity policy."

_____

How to Die in Oregon is a 2011 documentary film about the Oregon Death with Dignity Act that premiered at the 27th Sundance Film Festival.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1715802/

[Dawson Leery]

1. It would be better if the patient could do it to themselves.

[eallen]

11. Many do. Often using a gun. I've never understood why it is alright only if physician is involved...

The majority of gun deaths are suicides. Now, yeah, many of those are tragic: a stupid teen thinking unrequited love at that age means anything at all. But some are older folks who well understand their circumstance. Including some driven by the same motives of those who use physician-assisted suicide. If you're in the last stages of cancer or COPD or many other diseases, and still capable of pulling a trigger, why involve a physician and go through the necessary rigmarole that goes with that? Personally, I would prefer one last hobble to the field over something clinical.

But for some reason, it's anathema to say that, even to many people who think that physician-assisted suicide is a good idea.

:hippie:

[sudopod]

24. It's messy and inconsiderate to those who have to clean up

there's no way to predict who will find you, and it hurts like hell if you botch it.

There, reasons. :)

[eallen]

45. Small issues.

Do it outside. Leave a note. And it's pretty damn certain to anyone who knows basic anatomy.

:hippie:

[KansDem]

52. "It's messy and inconsiderate to those who have to clean up"

But you're creating jobs:
http://bioclean911.com/

[sudopod]

53. lolz :3 nt

[Electric Monk]

2. Question for those who disapprove of having the legal option. Why do you disapprove?

[customerserviceguy]

4. I voted in the strongly approve category

But the responses I've gotten from people I've discussed it with who oppose it are generally in one of two camps:

1) We don't have the right to take our lives, only some deity has the right to determine the time of our death.

2) If suicide is legalized, there will be intense pressure on the old and/or disabled to choose it, just to be enoouraged to "get out of the way".

As an atheist, I soundly reject #1, and I hope there are always safeguards in the way that physician-involved suicide is administered to prevent #2. I believe the moral values to do so are currently in place, but I have to express my doubt that they will always be so in every future time and place.

[KamaAina]

54. For people with disabilities, the "right to die" could become a duty to die

http://www.dredf.org/assisted_suicide/97-DREDF-website-version.html

Assisted suicide strikes many people as a cause to support, when they first hear about it. But upon closer inspection, there are many reasons why legalization is a serious mistake. Supporters focus on superficial issues of choice and self-determination. It is crucial to look deeper. Legalizing assisted suicide would not increase choice and self-determination, despite the assertions of its proponents. It would actually augment real dangers that negate genuine choice and control.

The disability community bases its opposition on the dangers to people with disabilities and the devaluation of disabled peoples' lives that result from assisted suicide. Further, this opposition stems from the secrecy in which assisted suicide operates today, in states where it is legal; the lack of robust oversight and the absence of investigation of abuse; the reality of who uses it; the dangers of legalization to further erode the quality of the U.S. health care system; and its potential for other significant harms....

Fear, bias, and prejudice against disability play a significant role in assisted suicide. Who ends up using assisted suicide? Supporters advocate its legalization by suggesting that it is needed for unrelievable pain and discomfort at the end of life. But the overwhelming majority of the people in Oregon who have reportedly used that state's assisted suicide law wanted to die not because of pain, but for reasons associated with disability, including the loss of autonomy (89.9 percent), the loss of the ability to engage in activities that make life enjoyable (87.4 percent), the loss of dignity (83.8 percent), and the loss of control of bodily functions (58.7 percent). Furthermore, in the Netherlands, more than half the physicians surveyed say the main reason given by patients for seeking death is "loss of dignity."...

Diane Coleman, president and founder of Not Dead Yet, a grassroots disability organization opposed to legalizing assisted suicide, has written that the "public image of severe disability as a fate worse than death ... become(s) grounds for carving out a deadly exception to longstanding laws and public policies about suicide intervention services ... Legalizing assisted suicide means that some people who say they want to die will receive suicide intervention, while others will receive suicide assistance. The difference between these two groups of people will be their health or disability status, leading to a two-tiered system that results in death to the socially devalued group."

[Electric Monk]

57. The patient must initiate the request

The patient must be determined to be free of a mental condition impairing judgment.

Should either physician have concerns about the patient's ability to make an informed decision, or feel the patient's request may be motivated by depression or coercion, the patient must be referred for a psychological evaluation.

(snips from the wikipedia link in my OP above)

[Electric Monk]

58. Also, they must have been diagnosed, by a physician, with a terminal illness

that will kill the patient within six months.

[pitohui]

65. the duty to die

this is something i've thought about a lot but at the end of the day, having a duty and a pressure to be an honorable person is not a terrible thing whereas being forcibly kept aliveby medical professional vampires so that your estate is drained of every penny and your family learns to hate your memory IS a terrible thing

i have alzheimer's in the family, and one of the victims lived for 20 years, if you think she would have been forced to live for 20 years in confusion and anger and torment if she had no money -- i think you are wrong, the so-called helping professions kept her alive and tortured her in hell for 20 years to steal her money

if you are worried about family pressure, fine, make a law where if the person has alzheimer's the money goes not to family and NOT to any nursing home, medical facility etc. but to some neutral cause they supported in their middle years...but do not use this fear of family pressure to torture a woman in living hell for 20 years who did no harm to anyone

i want the right if/when i get this disease (it's genetic) to GO, i do not want to be forcibly kept alive so that people unrelated to me working for dr. frist's nursing home can take every penny and leave my husband a beggar

in a way, yes, i feel if i am losing my brain and there is nothing good left, i have a duty to die, a duty to this earth, not to take resources off this planet and drain this world and make others suffer just so that i can live in hell, it is one thing to be using earth's resources to be happy, it is quite another to be destroying my family's finances and the planet's resources so that i can be left alive in a state of torture

the right to suicide does not go far enough, by the time you're only 6 months away from dying of alzheimer's you have long lost the ability to make your own decisions

it should be up to the person, the doctor, and the dx how far ahead they make the decision...i see no reason to keep my body alive for ten years or more without my brain, simply to enrich strangers and to beggar my husband, but i saw this happen w. other relatives

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. I think Oregon is waaaay ahead of most of us in this regard.

Recommended.

[customerserviceguy]

5. Washington state is there, too

Approved by the voters in 2008. I plan to spend at least part of my retirement years there for many reasons, this would be one of them.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

12. Ah, good! I was not aware of that. Thanks for telling me...nt

[virgogal]

16. How long do you have to live there to be eligible?

[ellenfl]

6. to me, being pro-choice includes the right to choose how i die. eom

[bigwillq]

7. Strongly approve (nt)

[Mz Pip]

8. If it were me

I'd like to have the option. Don't honestly know if I would take advantage of it, but I would like to be able to have it as a possibility.

Some deaths can be pretty brutal. I do not think I would want some prolonged pain and suffering for me and for my family members who would have to watch.

[Dappleganger]

9. Having watched my 66 yr. old mother die of a massive stroke

after a series of multiple strokes during the year prior to this, I am whole-heartedly for assisted suicide. No person should ever have to remain a prisoner in their own body any longer than they want. Our family was both relieved and grateful that Mom left a living will so we were all crystal clear to not extend her life in any way.

[fredamae]

10. I am in Or. I voted for it & I'm grateful it passed....

This is a very personal and private decision. I strongly believe in keeping it that way.
Unless and until we suffer the unmentionable misery folks experience at that point, none of us are in any manner of consideration capable of governing this decision on behalf of another human.

[stevedeshazer]

13. This topic is deeply relevant to me, because

1. I'm an Oregonian and I supported and voted for this law (both times);

2. My brother is dying of brain cancer.

I'd honestly consider it. He's not there yet, but knows it's an option. Tomorrow, he's seeking treatment in Seattle, but his prognosis is very poor. Stage 4 Glioblastoma.

So, the fact that both Oregon and Washington have made this perfectly humane option open means a great deal at this time. I doubt brotherdeshazer will opt for this for personal reasons, but I must say that in the end, your life is your life and you should be able to choose to end it as comfortably as possible, on your own terms.

As an aside, Oregon's 'Death With Dignity' law is often referred to as 'assisted suicide', but that is not correct. Doctors do not roll up in a death van like Jack Kevorkian's was portrayed.

To be eligible, one must receive a terminal diagnosis from two separate doctors. Then, the necessary prescriptions can be dispensed, but the doctors do not administer them. It is up to the patient, perhaps with assistance from a family member or friend, to ingest the necessary drugs. It's about peaceful. You know, 'death with dignity'.

Anyway, now I've choked myself up big time and I've gotta get out of here, but I hope this makes at least some sense since I'm a mess tonight.

Peace, everyone everywhere.

[cleanhippie]

22. I feel for you, man.

I can only imagine what you and your brother and your family and friends are experiencing right now. I am glad the option is available to you and trust that he, you and everyone involved will do what you a feel is right.

Stay strong.

[renate]

44. I am so, so, so sorry

I do sincerely hope for a cure, but in case that doesn't happen, I thought I would chime in with a third-hand report.

The partner of a friend of mine died of a glioblastoma and, for what it's worth, his death was actually very peaceful. Yes, his memory came and went, and so did his verbal abilities, but there were some incredibly, surreally, inexpressibly beautiful experiences in his last days.

I should also add that his pain was well managed, so letting things unfold was not a complicated decision.

Knowing that death is imminent is scary and sad as hell and there is no way to get around that, but from the limited information I have heard about this death from glioblastoma, there was a searing beauty about those last days that might give you guys a little hope that death really is not 100% awful. (The timing of it can be 100% awful, but death itself might not be.) We all get there eventually and to be surrounded by your family and friends in love is not a bad way to go, even if it's way too early.

Lots of love and compassion and wishes for peace for you and your brother... :grouphug:

[Forkboy]

50. I'm so sorry to hear that.

Your situation is exactly why this issue needs more attention around the country. In life we're afforded little dignity. We should at least get a little in death.

My mother died last year after being diagnosed with a brain tumor and multiple types of cancer that had spread throughout her body. It was 5 weeks from the discovery of the brain tumor to her death. We didn't put her in hospice care and took her home to my sister's house. A hospice care worker visited here and there, and right near the end gave my sister and I morphine for my mother to administer ourselves. There were no words needed....we knew what that meant.

My mother died that night, surrounded by me, my sister, her husband and two kids (who handled it so well...couldn't be any prouder of how they dealt with it, and how much strength they gave my sister). Her end was peaceful and painless, and I guess that's about the best we can all hope for.

I'm truly sorry about your situation. You and your family have my best wishes.

[stevedeshazer]

61. Thanks.

It's pretty tough right now.

Peace.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. Aw, Steve, I'm sorry to hear that

But yes, I was living in Oregon when the referendum was held, and I voted for it too.

[stevedeshazer]

64. Thanks, Lydia

I'm glad we once met. Thanks for voting to make this option a possibility.

:)

[MellowDem]

14. There's some problems with the law...

for one thing, the patient's request could always be seen as being motivated by depression or coercion of some sort. And even with the strict requirments, I could still see how two people could kill off granny for the money. Not to mention, their diagnosis of six months seems rather arbitrary, as many people have survived such diagnosis, not to mention, all that you have to do is find two physicians that agree with the diagnosis, which isn't hard to do, even if they're both in the significant minority.

Also, why should this only apply to people with a terminal illness anyways?

And when did the way you die become a matter of dignity? Seems rather silly to me. If you kill yourself because of how society perceives you in your mind, that's pretty fucked up. I can understand killing yourself to avoid pain a little more, but dignity? What if you die a horrible shivering painful death, will you care afterwards? Did you die with less dignity than someone who got a nice lethal injection shot and an Armani suit to die in? It just makes death creepily commercialized to me and makes it based off of insane societal standards.

[stevedeshazer]

17. Cold-blooded.

I hope you are never in that bind with a loved one.

[MellowDem]

18. What about it is cold blooded?

I mean, I know lots of people like to say names and run, so I don't expect you to respond.

[stevedeshazer]

20. Please refer to post #13

Respectfully, I disagree with your position. I hope this will help explain why.

Peace.

[MellowDem]

25. I understand your emotion...

though I may disagree with your interpretation of my position.

Peace.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. I think you are very wrong.

Very.

[MellowDem]

34. Well then say why...

it is a discussion board after all. For the record, I do theoretically believe people should be able to choose when they die, but I have no idea how it should be done, and have no problem pointing out some potential problems of a law trying to do so. It's a rather hazy area morally and legally with many potential issues. Especially when it comes to depression. I'm not sure that such a thing can be legalized without the costs outweighing the benefits.

Also, to try to sell the idea as "dying with dignity" just seems wrong to me in many ways, as I pointed out above. Just say that people should choose when to die for whatever reason they want to (except depression or coercion), but to push "dignity" seems a little weird to me. I can already see the commercializtion of such a legalized service as well running in my mind, and it does indeed creep me out.

[stevedeshazer]

28. Thanks.

No offense, I'm a bit touchy. Your point is well taken and a valid point of view and I respect it.

Peace and love to all.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Spoken like an ice water heart. Or a person who has not sat at

many death beds. Armani suit? May you learn before you are needed.

[MellowDem]

30. What?

I'm criticizing the law, not an individual's situation, and as such, I'm not appealing to emotion. The Armani suit comment was intentionally sarcastic to point out the ridiculousness of the idea of dignity with death. The only reason we believe people should die a certain way is our society's rather screwed up views of death. Nowhere did I say that I disagreed with the idea of being able to choose when you die. I was just pointing out that such choices based on societal ideas was rather creepy to me, and also pointing out a bunch of the inconsistencies of the law.

None of which you addressed.

Hope your rightousness made you feel good.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. The dignity is "It's my own damn decision, I'm going on my own damn terms

thank you very much"

[Zoeisright]

41. Exactly. Assisted suicide is very dignified.

Dying when you can't control your bodily functions and you're suffering isn't. Shame some people can't figure that out.

[Warren DeMontague]

42. And the bottom line is, it should be up to the person in question, not the State or the Church. nt

[Reader Rabbit]

15. My mom is moving up here to Oregon for this very reason.

She wants to make sure she has that option, should it ever become necessary.

[stevedeshazer]

19. +1

[cleanhippie]

21. Strongly approve.

[saras]

23. Hospice already exists and is probably a better forum

The job really does go against the fundamental training of doctors, which is why hospice exists. When you're under the care of a doctor, or physical therapist, etc., their job is to make you get better, and how much you like it, or whether it hurts, is mostly irrelevant. When everyone accepts the fact that you're going to die, they hand you over to hospice workers, whose job is to see that you have a comfortable, safe death.

The rest of the supervision stuff sounds reasonable, though you can always argue about details. But I suppose it depends on what kind of hopsice system Oregon has.

[MadMaddie]

29. Americans should have free will to make end of life decisons

and no goverment religous zeolot should get between that patient and his doctor. That's all!

[Karenina]

47. Bingo.

Perhaps this is covered in the film which I have yet to watch. I do recall having read numerous articles making the case that when people HAVE THE OPTION, most die of natural causes. It's the sense of control of one's destiny that is so comforting.

[NotThisTime]

31. I also watched it, I also strongly agree with it

It is the most difficult decision knowing when is enough, when treatment is exhausted, when you are exhausted. Dying in a hospice bed for months at a go isn't my idea of the way I want to live my life. I will live it until I can't live it, when it no longer becomes liveable. As Cody said in the film, you know when is enough, each patient is individual and each patient ultimately chooses which path they will take, legal or otherwise.

[DiverDave]

32. Who business?

is it not mine not yours not ANYONES...except.
The person suffering and their families. period.

[Bigmack]

33. It's a matter of control....

Repubs and religious folks generally feel they should control life... from contraception to abortion to "natural" death.

Others of us think our life - and death - is our own... not the government's, and not some diety.

Simple as that.

[Fuzz]

35. I'm 1/4 of the way through right now (tivo). Powerful, raw and thought provoking.

It only enforces my opinion that it should be legal. My wife knows my wishes.

[azul]

36. Drug laws treat us as children.

Because of some out-of-control idiots that messed up, none of us are allowed the freedom to put whatever the hell we want to into our bodies. A hundred years ago people were expected to be smart enough not to poison themselves. Now we have a nanny state which only allows dull scissors and 2% beer because we are so afraid of crime and too ignorant and lazy to take responsibility for our actions.

Too lazy and incapable by nature of learning enough physiology and nutrition and pharmacology and toxicology to make informed decisions on what to put into the body, we must rely on the licensed cult of medical practitioners to dispense this service at outrageous fees, or fend for ourselves under legal threat.

When we are dying we should be able to grow and harvest poppy juice to have ready to help ease us out of this world, or anything else that works for that matter. But no, some idiot that won't do for itself wants to steal that juice to make itself euphoric, and so the laws come down, and treated as idiots we must be, in jail and out.

I'm tired and ranting and pissed that my 85yo mother is now eligible for hospice care in this enlightened society. She wants this option to take her own life by going into a painless lethal sleep, but it is illegal in this state. Except if you are an animal or are executed, you must go through the last pangs of death. Because why?

[Warren DeMontague]

39. EXACTLY.

Thank you.

[Zoeisright]

38. It's all about autonomy. Which is an ethics concepts repukes cannot understand.

Autonomy means you get to control what happens to your body. If you don't want a pregnancy, you can terminate it; without cause in the first three months. If you don't want surgery, you can refuse it. And if you are ready to die and you are suffering with no hope, you should have the choice to end your life.

[Warren DeMontague]

40. "My Body, My Business"

That says covers it all, AFAIC- from reproductive rights, to the idiotic drug war, to whether or not people should be able to choose their own means of exit.

[Behind the Aegis]

43. Strongly approve.

[Puglover]

46. I have heard that a lot of folks

get the prescription and never use it. Having it gives them a sense of control and that helps. I can totally understand that.

[SoCalDem]

49. I've heard that too.. It's like when patients get to control their own pain meds

with a pump. Nurses often say they actually use less because they get to control when they get the meds.

[SoCalDem]

48. I watched the taill end of it, and I found myself wishing she had waited a bit longer

:cry:..

[PavePusher]

51. Anyone should be able to end their life in any manner they choose...

with the limitations that they don't take anyone else out with them without consent, and no destruction of any property they don't own. Also that they have pre-made arrangements for any mess to be cleaned up after they depart.

Seems pretty simple to me... :shrug:

[Hell Hath No Fury]

55. Strongly approve -

I watched that last night, too. Fantastic piece. :applause:

Having watched my grandmother die of cancer, I believe 100% in a persons right to create their own exit from this world with a doctor's help.

Like many, I am not sure I would make the choice to end my life earlier if I were terminally ill, but damnnit, I want the choice to do so if I feel the need.

[Shagbark Hickory]

56. Strongly, strongly, strongly

approve.
made ya click :silly:

[GeorgeGist]

59. At the rate the US is going ...

it may be the best public option.

[Vidar]

60. Highly approve. I've watched too many friends & relatives wate away in misery.

[libodem]

63. If we can not have health care

We should at least get death with dignity. Why suffer?