Dark Girls: A GREAT Video About Darker-Skinned Black Women

[tishaLA]

and colorism in the African American community. This is a 9 minute preview of a feature-length documentary: http://vimeo.com/24155797

[dipsydoodle]

1. Cut me and I bleed.

They all look beautiful to me.

:hug:

[PCIntern]

2. K and hearty R...Great preview...

I was always stunned by this issue as a white male: I never knew about this until a Philly newscaster, now deceased, Jack Jones who was light-skinned, was accused by people whom I knew to be selective in this regard...this one patient of mine who is a GORGEOUS dark-skinned lady, was pissed as hell because he insulted her to her face in re: this issue. I told her that if I were single and not her dentist, she'd definitely catch my eye, that that was beyond belief...we still wink at each other when she comes in, 25 years later...

[bobbolink]

6. Women can be so unkind to each other... this is a subset of the whole problem. It is just an excuse

to do the same destructive shit other women do.

We made headway in turning this around during the second wave of feminism. We found that sisterhood really was powerful.

But that has all been blown up, and it is back to women bashing women.

I have found that some of the most powerful feminism and sisterhood is in some of the religious orders... nuns. They have learned how to form powerful community. (Again, that is some of them.... others are the same as what exists outside of the orders.)

Very, very sad.

[PCIntern]

9. IIRC,

it was the women who did the ERA in years ago...most of the somewhat RW men I knew didn't have too much of an opinion, but Jeez, the women were unbelievably motivated to kill the ERA and were quite vituperative in their opposition.

[seabeyond]

12. turning this around during the second wave of feminism.

i so agree with you. i dont hear many say this, but in the 70's and 80's i think we were well on our way. mid 90's, downhill from there to where we are today. a total regression in such a huge way and from a different angle.

[tishaLA]

7. I lived in Philly and dated a guy whose family was in Who's Who in Black Philadelphia

(I know! Who knew such a thing existed?) and all the members of his family were proudly able to pass the paper bag test. Their color, and their heritage in West Mount Airy, separated them from the common colored folk in West/North Philly and Germantown. It was their badge of honor.

[PCIntern]

10. I treat quite a number of them...

many businesses' and professionals' families have been here since before the Civil War and have amassed great wealth and quiet power, many live in Wynnefield. Impressive group...


Edited to make sense...I gotta re-read what I'm writing these days...

[Kind of Blue]

24. Badge of honor...

But not just the paper bag concerning a friend who I went on spring break one semester to her hometown in the very same area. Her family lived in this beautiful house that was there's for generations with walls of photos dating back to the 1800s. Look at this one, she pointed to one of her great-great grandmoms - see how dark she is But she had gray eyes. She'd point to her ancestors but always something to negate their blackness. Same with her hometown friends: he's black as coal but has "good hair," this one has long hair, straight nose, light skinned, et cetera. It was aggravating, so being straight up from Africa, I asked well, why would you bring me here, I certainly don't fit in. And she said, yes you do. You've got freckles just like me! :rofl: OMG, Unbelievable. I just thought it was something fun we shared but at dinner the first night, she announced look at her freckles and she's from Africa! :rofl: I couldn't believe these black people were scrutinizing to the bone.

[tishaLA]

26. That's a perverse version of this story from Booker T Washington's

Up From Slavery:

There was a man who was well known in his community as a Negro, but who was so white that even an expert would have hard work to classify him as a black man. This man was riding in the part of the train set aside for the coloured passengers. When the train conductor reached him, he showed at once that he was perplexed. If the man was a Negro, the conductor did not want to send him into the white people's coach; at the same time, if he was a white man, the conductor did not want to insult him by asking him if he was a Negro. The official looked him over carefully, examining his hair, eyes, nose, and hands, but still seemed puzzled. Finally, to solve the difficulty, he stooped over and peeped at the man's feet. When I saw the conductor examining the feet of the man in question, I said to myself, "That will settle it;" and so it did, for the trainman promptly decided that the passenger was a Negro, and let him remain where he was. I congratulated myself that my race was fortunate in not losing one of its members.

[Kind of Blue]

28. I remember that passage!

That was perhaps the most interesting thing about this group of African-Americans, they loved themselves, loved our heritage, proud of the fine achievements in their family. Really, they were impressive. But you had to have something they considered visibly "genetic" that said you weren't all black. Nice people but really disturbing to be a token black among blacks :eyes:

[Karenina]

44. I was subjected to a pop paper bag quiz...

As newly-minted teenies, Jill and I went to visit her cousin Felicia in Philly to attend a party. All these years I've wondered if either knew beforehand that my skin shade might be a problem or if I was used to make a point. I don't have light skin, light eyes or good hair but I do have freckles and am cute. ;-) We all had "east coast pedigree." I figured out pretty quickly why there was an issue with my entry, as Felicia went down the "Don't you KNOW who I AM? Do you KNOW who her MOTHER IS?" route.

I was *stunned* and beat a hasty retreat to the car where her adult brother was waiting to see us enter the building safely. When he saw me coming he got out, collected Felicia and Jill, refused to speak to the chaperones who by now had heard a series of surnames and had made their way to the door...

Since we all looked so pretty we were going someplace nice, he said, then took us to an upscale restaurant. It was INTEGRATED. I recall looking around the room and thinking, WHAT JUST HAPPENED TO ME??? I didn't cry... until much later.

[Kind of Blue]

45. Karenina...

:hug: for the young girl you were then.
Those ridiculous and gut-wrenching experience didn't kill us so, really, bravo to the woman you are now - cute, freckles and all! :fistbump:

[Karenina]

48. Flash forward to the 45 year old... Also a long time ago!

[Kind of Blue]

49. Aww...my little fraulien - too cute!

[skypilot]

32. I lived in Mt.Airy for a couple years...

...while attending high school. A lot of the students at my school also lived in Mt.Airy. I always sensed the kind of attitude that you describe. It's almost palpable. I lived in North Philly and then in the suburb of Yeadon before moving to Mt.Airy. I'll never forget this one guy I went to school with named Steven (a light-skinned guy) theorizing that I'd been "civilized" by my time in Yeadon after having lived in North Philly. He once told a girl that he couldn't take her to the prom because her hair wasn't long enough. I hated that guy. Mt.Airy is really beautiful but I'm very ambivalent about it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

38. Ahhh...The Paperbag Test. Sadly my family is divided by skin color.

I'm related to Harold Ford, Jr. Well, as many of you already know, the Fords on that side of the family are very, very fair skinned. The Fords on my side of the family are very dark-skinned. To this day, the two sides don't even know each other. I've never met my cousin, Harold Ford, Jr., and I don't know anyone on that side of the family. It is incredibly sad. Only about a few people on my side of the family know anyone on that side.

[krispos42]

51. "Paper bag test"?

Is this what I think it is?



ETA:

Checked Wikipedia.


It is.


*sigh*

[BlueIris]

3. K&R. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Devastating.

The clip of the little girl pointing out the 'good' girl and the 'bad' girl, the 'smart' girl and the 'stupid' girl - absolutely heartbreaking.

I will have to watch for the feature when it comes out.

[Javaman]

5. I listen to a lot of old blues and jazz from the 10's, 20's, 30's and 40's...

and in many a song light colored African-Americans are refereed to as "High Yellas".

[dipsydoodle]

15. If you look at the CD covers of some of that music

faces have been bleached in the cover pictures. It was years before I found out that Chick Webb wasn't white ! Blind Lemon Jefferson looks almost white in this too : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3yd-c91ww8

At least they never bleached Billie.

[Javaman]

19. Very true...

There are a few rare songs out there talking about "skin lighteners" as well.

I'm a big fan of Mildred Bailey. I love her voice. Many photos of her were also lightened to "appeal" to white audiences.

really fucked up, but those were the racist times back then.

[dipsydoodle]

22. I didn't discover Mildred until 1995

and since then you're the only person to have mentioned that wonderful lady.

Present. If you didn't know of the existence of this you'd never find it. Was only on vinyl for years and even that wasn't easy to find : Un Easy Does It by the Count Basie Trio http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPMUReow3wM

[Javaman]

39. Oh man that is smooth!

Love the Count.

Yeah, I'm a big old time music geek. I was brought up by two parents that "swung" during the swing era.

Ever listen to Helen Humes?

Thanks for the link!

On edit: is your screen name taken from the old swing song?

[dipsydoodle]

42. Yes indeed

Larry Clinton's version being a favorite. I learned to dance to NO Jazz when I was a teenager back in the early '60s. That was during the revival which had started here in the UK early 50's. I didn't like swing music at that time other than singing along to Dorsey's Sunny Side of the Street. I grew into swing late 1994 when I learned how to Lindy Hop and use the double 4 time shuffle beat properly.

Basie - these days I prefer the Atomic stuff from when he reformed the big band: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nngjcw-B8P8 Don't come much cooler than that. Search for Basie and Ellington playing Seque in C together - that won't play on YouTube here but should be ok your side.

Bechet's very popular here again now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-z7jMqH7TM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6MNx_WvY4E

I'll leave you listening to Bunk Johnson : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY3Go5Ydeao unless you prefer Madeleine :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvlDNmv7-VQ

:hi:

ps You'll find swing in the most unexpected places at times : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06XacdeEkBg&playnext=1&list=PLC7B8C8EE98ACA717

[Javaman]

52. Great stuff!

I love Bechet's. Have you seen this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNIBkE1ekF8&feature=fvst

Plus I love his version of "I found a new baby" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLo7RGPCxiM

I had a feeling that you danced Lindy by you name. Not many people know the reference. :)

I've been dancing lindy now for about 16 years. :) I never get tired of it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Thank you for posting this.

This is the reasons why people get upset when the movie industry casts anglo girls in the roles that were written for ethnic people. Even when they darken the skin, the color will fall within the "socially acceptable" range. Also, they can weed out the truly ethnic features in the bone structure.

i.e. Katniss Evergreen in the Hunger Games.

I have no doubt that movie will be a huge hit, but it was a missed opportunity to establish a role model that would help change the kind of attitudes you see in the post.

[Kind of Blue]

31. I saw each one of the

women as a role model. I have a feeling the clip is to immediately grab attention but a lot of the women have worked or are working their way through the heartbreak. I don't think one person with a unique variation of darker skin would be enough to change attitudes. I think the film does a good thing by showing a variety of dark skin on different features.

[fascisthunter]

11. I Love Women of all Shades!

When I was a kid I had crushes almost exclusively on girls with darker skin than mine.

[bobbolink]

14. Heh... I envied the darker skinned women because they could wear such great BRIGHT colors and look

terrific! :)

[fascisthunter]

16. true!!! I think our differences are awesome and should be embraced

I find tanned skin to be very attractive!!!

Interestingly enough though, my love is very light-skinned.... "how the hell did that hapen?" Kidding... looks aren't as important as the person. :P

[bobbolink]

30. Differences *are* awesome. Embraced, enjoyed, learned from... but not copied.

We need more authenticity and less wannabee-ism! :hi:

[Poll_Blind]

13. And if you haven't seen it yet, as a sort of prep, watch Chris Rock's doc. "Good Hair"

I am very stoked to see this documentary. I thought it was very interesting, about 6 minutes in, when the woman with platinum hair says she's go into a room full of white people and they thought her dark skin was beautiful- and then wondering to herself "Why can't my own culture identify my beauty?"

Watching "Good Hair" would really dovetail into this subject nicely.

Also, I never heard of the "paper bag" rule. How sad. I know that in Haiti (I believe) skin bleaching is a (toxic) epidemic and just so many other things- I hope they touch on that skin bleaching (I assume they will). I'm an average white male. The concept of there being anything wrong with me inherently based on my skin color is an absolutely alien concept. Like so many other things I take for granted, it's a little-recognized part of my White Privilege.

PB

[alsame]

29. "Good Hair" was excellent. I'm a white woman but my best

friend growing up was African American. She always wore a short Afro or braids, but both her parents used to conk their hair. I remember her mother telling us how it burned and smelled, but she felt she had to do it to look professional. When that woman in the film talks about how her natural hair style is perceived as something 'radical', I thought back to those comments.

[Sinistrous]

17. This video made we weep.

Thinking about the three beautiful daughters of a couple who are my friends.

Are these children subject to this?

Is this how they see themselves?

I love them, and my heart aches to think that they experience the pain described by the women in this video.

[Raffi Ella]

36. Me too, it's profoundly sad and disturbing.

My first thought after watching it is Michelle Obama and her daughters. How I hope seeing that amazing beautiful woman and her daughters, and hearing them described that very way in public, has an impact on this issue.

[Karenina]

18. Bill Duke is a brilliant personage...

I am SO HAPPY to see this and heartily thank you for posting. Colourism pervades ALL TRIBES. Blondes have more fun. I recall a documentary I saw on WDR of an elderly woman tearfully recounting her experiences as the dark-haired child in class during WWII...

[Kind of Blue]

20. Had to call my mother and thank her after

seeing that! And I thought I'd heard it all. That kind of colorism within the family is the most devastating.
Thanks and KnR, sending this along to all of my sisters.

[Generic Other]

21. That was a very heartfelt and sad preview

Such beautiful women. So many blows to their self-esteem.

[Bunny]

23. Curious: are light men also seen as more attractive or desireable than dark men?

Or is this just a woman thing?

[tishaLA]

25. It varies a good deal more historically

typically, lighter skinned men were regarded as more attractive, but much of that has disappeared and many African Americans now regard brown skinned men (but not very dark men) as more masculine and authentically African. If you look at black popular culture, brown skinned men now tend to dominate.

[Bunny]

27. Thanks for the explanation.

It helps me to better understand things.

[ej510]

33. Black people need to stop hating ourselves.

Listen to this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HKoOYdhkq0

[yella_dawg]

34. Paper Bag Test

I dated a girl for a while who told me of the "Paper Bag Test". As kids, they compared each other to brown grocery bags. Kids with skin lighter than a grocery bag were somehow "better" than those who were darker. Terry might have passed a "Hershey Bar Test". I was horrified that anti-black racism is so powerful that even black children had been infected.

[ej510]

35. Yep the test was true.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

37. I heard about this. As one of those black gals who fall in that category, I think this is great...

...and LONG overdue!! :)

[stevedeshazer]

40. +1, that was great and I learned something.

[Heidi]

41. Recommended.

:kick:

[malaise]

43. Very nice

Thank you :hi:

[mzteris]

46. amazing .

It's so sad that women of color feel this way. that men of color feel that way.

I think we need to revive that catch phrase from the 60's - Black IS Beautiful!

Anyone interested in this subject should also read bell hooks who explores "internalized racism" (along with institutionalized racism!).

edit to add question I forgot to ask:


Is this just in America? Or just in "white dominated countries"?

[Karenina]

50. Look at India's caste system.

If your hair has the slightest wave in Japan... Dark-skinned Iraqis and Israelis... Brazil's got it going on BIG TIME!
We humans be NUTS!

[loudsue]

47. That was really moving. Those black dudes that wanted light skinned black women,

really are assholes. WTF. Prejudice comes in all colors, and it is so senseless.

I have to say, "pretty", or "good looking" people really have an advantage, in all races, and so many of the dark skinned women in the video were so beautiful. But when it comes with low self-esteem because of peer or familial sabotage, good looks can screw people up, too. How people look is a lot bigger an issue than I wish it was.

I can't wait to see the final documentary.

K & R