How many here wish Bill Clinton would just STFU and go away?

[Elwood P Dowd]

He stabbed us in the back on the following:

NAFTA

GATT

WTO

Telecommunications Bill

Glass-Steagall

Social Security (thankfully that one failed)


Now he is hanging around with the Pete Peterson crowd and encouraging their new favorite water-boy Paul Ryan. What's next Bill? You gonna' coauthor a book with Jerome Corsi?

[Odin2005]

1. I do!

[rainlillie]

145. LOL! Hand rasied, count me in.

[ergot]

2. DOMA

:grr:

[Stevenmarc]

9. And DADT

[ergot]

27. I'm ashamed to admit when DADT was proposed, I thought it was a step forward

just because compared to what it was 'replacing' it seemed to be an improvement but it sure didn't work out that way.
Thanks for the reminder. grr.

[Lucky Luciano]

93. DADT is still better than the prior policy, isn't it?

If it is worse, then why is that the case? I genuinely don't know.

[Warren Stupidity]

174. It was no different.

The old policy was "gay=>out", the DADT policy was "gay=>out". DADT was a fig leaf put over the embarrassing failure of the clinton administration's attempt to enact actual reform of the military policy with respect to homosexuality.

[pasto76]

225. no it was not the same

officially, a soldier could not be question about his/her orientation. Before that, a troop could be sat down, asked by an officer or senior NCO. IF they found out the troop was lying, well, that compounded the problem for the troop.

DADT was a baby step in the right direction. I cant believe anyone would actually think otherwise. Its all about policy. Now, officially, gay troops can serve. In another 15 years, no one will care at all, and even the repeal will seem antiquated.

SGT P

[Warren Stupidity]

230. right

"officially"

unofficially the witch hunt resumed with doubled vigor approximately 10 nanoseconds after DADT was enacted.

[tblue]

236. Then you must not remember how it came down

Clinton tried to move more boldly in his first weeks as president and caught enormous blowback, which is why he settled on this compromise. Before Clinton, witch hunts to out gay service members were the norm.

[Avant Guardian]

135. DADT was state of the art at the time

...and the LGBT community largely backed it.

[Stevenmarc]

202. It was a sell out from the campaign promise

And no one I knew was all that thrilled about it.

He ran on signing an Executive Order and that issue was pretty much the first thing he threw under the bus once he got in office.

[bvar22]

91. AND,

MFN (Most Favored Nation Trade Status) for CHINA in 1994!!!!

Initially, MFN for China was supposed to be linked to the establishment of Basic Human Rights in China,
and that is how it was sold to a gullible America,
but like Obama's Public Option, the whole Human Rights part was dropped after the Hard Sell
leaving the American Worker to compete with Slave Labor in China.

It might be fun to re-examine Hillary's relationship with WalMart during these years.

[kath]

157. Yup, another one that never should have happened.

Outrageous sell-out.
Thanks for reminding us of this one.

[dflprincess]

3. I do

and don't forget his welfare "reform".

[coalition_unwilling]

14. I do. I wish the National Democratic Party would expel his treasonous ass post haste. And don't

forget Ricky Ray Rector (before Clinton even became Prez when he was trying to prove how "tough" he would be on crime):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricky_Ray_Rector

Rector's death is a day that shall live in infamy.

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[coalition_unwilling]

149. Nothing wrong? Whatever you've got to tell yoruself, if and when

you get done with your blind fellating of all things Clinton.

How about providing aid and comfort to the enemy?

[Avant Guardian]

168. What aid and comfort?

Please detail same.

[Kurmudgeon]

4. I never thought he'd turn into the next Lieberman, so disappointed...

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bahrbearian]

5. Can't he just go to some Caribbean Is. with Chimpy and share a Beer?

[tularetom]

6. He doesn't have to go away

Just STFU.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[undeterred]

7. For his next act, maybe he can become the son Cheney never had.

[Avant Guardian]

106. What an idiotic post

[undeterred]

151. What an idiotic reply

[Avant Guardian]

165. Thank you for that well reasoned defense of your position

lol

[undeterred]

170. Ok, let me spell it out for you.

Look, he snuggled up to GHWB and got to be his favorite son.

And the same week Cheney is worshipping the ground Paul Ryan walks on, Clinton is reaching out to Paul Ryan. It ain't that much of a stretch.

There ya go.

[AtomicKitten]

235. Succinct explanation of why this whole thing stinks.

And the same week Cheney is worshiping the ground Paul Ryan walks on, Clinton is reaching out to Paul Ryan.

:scared:

[Enthusiast]

189. Read 170 !

Then read it again.

The only way the PTB can beat us down is through subterfuge. In the dictionary under subterfuge there is a picture of President Clinton. The bills he signed killed the American working class (NAFTA) and contributed to the economic collapse by taking away the protection of Glass Steagal. Ignoring these facts doesn't make them go away.

[Curmudgeoness]

8. Has he been hanging around with his buddy Daddy Bush too long?

Please, shut up!

[rsmith6621]

10. Glass-Steagall ...Did He Revoke It or...

....have no in reinstating.....I know Hilary wanted to reinstate it something OBAMA has no interest in so I guess you will soon be tired of President Obama soon..

[roguevalley]

41. I'm just tired of assholes who want to be loved.

[MannyGoldstein]

89. He signed the repeal into law: have you seen this picture?

Here's the signing ceremony:



Have you ever seen a bigger smile on Clinton's face? Ever? He knew that his financial future was now assured, and Wall Street has paid him many tens of millions since.

He handed the signing pen to Sanford Weil, CEO of Citi.

PS: He could have successfully vetoed it.

[Avant Guardian]

123. What effort is Obama making to reinstate it??

Just curious...

[MannyGoldstein]

131. He proposed and passed a 2,500+ page bill written by lobbyists

as an alleged substitute, even though it does not do the fundamental thing that Glass-Steagall did: forbid using Savings Bank money for speculation.

The original Glass-Steagall was something like 50 pages, no loopholes.

[Avant Guardian]

164. I am realizing that the two party system is not democracy

The lesser of two evils is not democracy. Death by 1000 cuts.

[Enthusiast]

190. Why would Obama reinstate it?

Obama is obviously playing for the same team.

[struggle4progress]

11. I liked Clinton a lot more than I liked Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, or Bush II. Nixon was

a crook, Reagan was a carnival barker, Bush II was the sorriest excuse for a President that I can remember

It's a political job, so it goes to politicians. Clinton was one of the most talented politicians we've elected in recent times. I don't expect to be uniformly delighted by the people I vote for

[coalition_unwilling]

20. Do you at least expect that Dems will support the New Deal and

Great Society? I don't give a shit if a Dem gets (or gives) a blowjob while in office, but I will not tolerate his or her consorting -- I think that's the appropriate word for what Clinton was doing with Ryan -- with the avowed enemies of the New Deal and Great Society.

[Avant Guardian]

132. lol @ 'consorting'

Having a drink with someone, or playing golf with someone, or walking around the block with someone, or a thousand other neutral behaviours fall under the umbrella of 'consorting.'

Hate makes people think goofy thoughts.

[bvar22]

188. Oh Yes. Bill Clinton "consorts" with Liberal Pro-LABOR Democrats...

and helps them with their campaigns ALL the TIME!!!
.
.
.
.
.
.
Oh Wait. No he doesn't.
My Bad.

[Enthusiast]

191. I'm with you!

I could care less about the BJ. Just don't sell out to high dollar private interests at the expense of the American worker.

[Jakes Progress]

12. Who would Obama get to run interference for him?

[unkachuck]

13. K&R....throw my name on the pile....n/t

[izquierdista]

15. I've thought that since the '92 primaries

[Rageneau]

16. Clinton was the best president of my lifetime.

And I go back to Harry Truman.

True, Clinton didn't do everything right, but he presided over the longest period of peace and prosperity the US enjoyed in the 20th Century, despite having to constantly fight the Republicans, the press, and most members of his own party.

If he was so bad, which U.S. president was his superior? (factually, not philosophically)

[Curmudgeoness]

26. It isn't about the "was" so much as the damage that he is doing

right now. It is time for him to shut up now.

[coalition_unwilling]

28. Truman was an infinitely better president than Clinton, imho.

3 little contrasts between Truman and Clinton:

1) Truman whooped Dewey's ass in 1948 when the polls had Dewey winning. Contrast that with Clinton defeating Bob Dole, that tired old sacrificial lamb put up by the Repukes out of a sense of obligation to Dole.

2) Truman shit-canned MacArthur for insubordination. Contrast that with Clinton's fellating of the Pentagon re gays in the military.

3) Truman integrated the armed services with a simple executive order. Again contrast that Clinton's fellating of the Pentagon re gays in the military.

Peace and prosperity during Clinton's 8 years? You might mention that to the parents or relatives of the 500,000 Iraqi children who died of preventable diseases during that time frame thanks to sanctions maintained at the insistence of the Clinton regime. And all the Iraqi civilians who died as a result of the bombs we dropped on Iraq over and over again. But whatever. Contrast that with the Marshall Plan and 'containment' of the Soviet Union, diplomatic masterpieces Clinton could only dream of ever pulling off.

On a semi-humorous note, Truman hated Nixon's guts and there's a hilarious story of what transpired when Nixon came to Independence for Truman's birthday to give him a piano for his birthday and play the Missouri Waltz. (After Nixon left, Truman is reported to have said, "I can't stand that son of a bitch!" :)

Contrast that with Clinton's behavior vis-a-vis the Bush family.

Q.E.D.

[femrap]

80. thanks for the story

about HST. I feel the same way about Nixon. But compared to the neo-cons of today, Nixon looks like a centrist democrat....which really shows how far to the f*cking Right we, as a nation, have gone. And a big part of that move can be blamed on using organized religion to manipulate sheeple. Moral Majority, my ass.

Also, the Multi-national Corporations have come into power and pretty much decide who gets elected and then decides what the elected will do.

I hope the Mayans and Hopis are correct and 2012 brings us The End and A New Beginning. Maybe the Earth will tilt on her axis....that's what I learned in Physical Science 101....every 26,0000 years, this happens.

We got a bunch of spineless twits in power today....no one standing strong for We, The People. Alas.

[bvar22]

94. AND, Truman STOOD UP for the New Deal & The Working Class.

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."---President Harry Truman

QED: 2010

[coalition_unwilling]

107. what an awesome quote and so a propos for this thread too. Thanks! - n/t

[MessiahRp]

161. Truman was better than Clinton domestically by a long shot.

Wow. I am definitely sharing that quote. Pretty much sums up the past few election cycles.

As for Truman v. Clinton, I think the one place I draw the line was the need to use atomic bombs in Japan. It was wholly unnecessary, we had pretty much firebombed the Japanese to death prior to that anyway.

Rp

[bvar22]

195. I agree with the "non-necessity" of using the A-Bombs....

...to "end" the War with Japan.
So did many in the Pacific High Command, including Gen. McArthur.
As a country, we bear heavy guilt for what we did to defenseless Japanese.

However, there WERE many extenuating circumstances, so I'm willing to cut him some slack there.
There is a credible theory that the A-Bomb was dropped on the Japanese to prevent Stalin from
rolling to the Atlantic in Europe.
The World was a very different place in those years.
I watch the old film clips and documentaries on TV, and have much difficulty wrapping my brain around the insanity of those wars.

[coalition_unwilling]

204. Well, Clinton managed to bomb the shit out of Serbia and Iraq, although

to his credit, Clinton managed to forgo the use of nuclear weapons.

Serbia and Iraq were each pretty much defenseless, compared to the Japanese.

So I don't think Clinton deserves too much credit in the foreign-policy arena.

But your point is taken. IIRC, Japan had already extended back-channel peace feelers to the U.S. before we dropped the two atomic bombs. The peace feelers had of necessity to remain back channel to avoid incurring the wrath of the die-hard dead-enders on Hirohito's staff. But I may be misremembering.

[pampango]

226. Truman was great, but ...

"In the spring of 1946, a national railway strike, unprecedented in the nation's history, brought virtually all passenger and freight lines to a standstill for over a month. When the railway workers turned down a proposed settlement, Truman seized control of the railways and threatened to draft striking workers into the armed forces. ... Although the resolution of the crippling railway strike made for stirring political theater, it actually cost Truman politically: his proposed solution was seen by many as high-handed; and labor voters, already wary of Truman's handling of workers' issues, were deeply alienated."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_S._Truman#First_term_.281945.E2.80.931949.29

He was also the driving force behind the adoption of GATT to govern world trade after WWII.

[Waiting For Everyman]

40. Longest prosperity? Seems you forgot 1945-1970.

Better than Repubs, yes. Beyond that, no.

p.s. I've been living since Truman too.

[Ozymanithrax]

223. There were six recession between 1945 and 1970...n/t

[roguevalley]

42. FDR. Washington because he started it all and had integrity in

office. Lincoln because he saved the nation. There are many others.

[Warren Stupidity]

59. wow JFK LBJ Truman and Carter were all better presidents

and the period from around 1950 - 1980 was the highpoint of middle class american prosperity. Since then what prosperity we have had has been bubble-based wall street bullshit in which the rich got richer and the middle class got disappeared like an Argentinian leftist. Clinton was the first of two 'caretaker' Democratic presidents selected to clean up after an overt orgy of pillaging, selected to prepare us for the next round of plunder. I'll give you one guess who the other one is.

[Name removed]

111. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stupidity]

138. Oh? Be specific.

Please list one right wing talking point in my post.

[pscot]

152. My parrot produces a better argument

You keep repeating yourself, but you don't say anything.

[mmonk]

60. One could say the roaring 20's were great except they led

to the Great Depression. What fueled much of the Wall Street success was a high tech bubble that burst at the end of his second term and was hiding the ticking time bomb. But Gramm-Bliley-Leach and the failure to regulate deriatives when proposed and considered led us to our current beeline along with continued help from the Bush administration. Rubinomics along with Reaganomics was and is a failure. One that elected Democrats fail to grasp.

[BREMPRO]

172. good summary of general ignorance.. cause/effect logic doesn't work in American politics

unfortunately... we are the united states of amnesia... and politicians on both sides gloss over the truth. i get tired of the "greatest prosperty in our lifetime" argument made about Clinton.. when carefully examined his policies continued and caused eventual boom n bust instead of a sustainable economy were glass stegal and many of the depression era policies kept in place..we were sold out by wall street greed and short term thinking.

good post.

[mmonk]

242. Thanks.

[russspeakeasy]

72. Not talking about what he did; it's what he's doing.

[ctwayne]

75. Clinton was Much Better Than Obama

Clinton created 23 million additional jobs while president. He did it mostly by raising taxes on the rich and upper middle class. Obama has run up trillions of dollars in deficits and kept in place all the ruinous Bush tax cuts. Clinton created a surplus.

As far as Pete Peterson, Obama's Simpson Bowles Catfood Commission was closely tied to Pete Peterson. Obama is also far more aggressive when it comes to war than Clinton.

[Avant Guardian]

109. The first thing Clinton did when he got into office was reverse Reaganomics.

...and he included zero 'republican ideas' in the legislation.

[saras]

209. Exactly - and what it was widely hoped that Obama would do with his mandate

[pscot]

150. I go back to HST also

and Truman, Eisenhower and LBJ were all better presidents than Clinton. He was smart and he was probably the smoothest politician I've seen, but that didn't prevent him from rounding off and normalizing what Reagan started. Slick, smart and wrong, and no braver than he had to be.

[styersc]

193. Bill Clinton was a damend fine president and a great ex-pres.

Gotta give Carter points for hands on and heart, but Bill Clinton is a source of pride for this party.

Too damn bad if some of the children in this party want to whine......

[coalition_unwilling]

205. We're only whining about Clinton's latest betrayal of the New Deal

and Great Society. No biggie.

:sarcasm:

[AlabamaLibrul]

17. Another fun acronym: DMCA n/t

[bigwillq]

18. Should go to Texas and hang out with Dubya.

Since they're best buddies and all.
At least GWB is staying out of the spotlight for the most part. Good call on his part.

[femrap]

82. W hates

going out....he just likes to stay home and drink. That book tour...he hated it.

Clinton, OTOH, loves attention.

Remember when W was prez (I know it hurts), but he never had dinner for anyone at the WH....straight up to the private quarters for that bottle of vodka. No entertaining...ever.

There was one dinner....was it Diana? Or the Queen?

I actually believe he hated being prez...that's why dick did most of the work. W's brains were alcohol-soaked and cocaine-fried.

[madokie]

19. Count me in

I un-subscribed to his emails this morning and posted about doing that and took a lot of shit for it.

[denbot]

21. Bill Clinton rocks!

The Big Dog did so much for this country, while facing the more domestic opposition then any previous president since F.D.R. Hate away, but he got the job done.

And for the factually challenged NAFTA, GATT, WTO, the Telecommunications Bill, Glass-Steagall, and the attempt to gut social security were already on the table when he took office, and were republican driven inititives. An example; McCain was the one of the sponsors of the Telecomunications Bill of 1996. The above listed bills were republican driven, and were NOT Clinton's babies, freeper like revisionists not excepted.

[Elwood P Dowd]

24. Many of those would have never passed if Clinton had not worked his ass off to

help get them passed. Have you totally forgotten all the work he did to round up support for some of them? That was especially true on NAFTA. Yes, it was a GHWB agreement, but Clinton busted his butt to get enough Dem votes to pass it. Otherwise, it was DOA!

[Avant Guardian]

127. Thank God Obama is undoing them, right?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

228. And he sure as hell didn't have to SIGN them

or advocate for them.

[Ramulux]

29. Bullshit

I dont know where you get your information but Bill Clinton fully supported NAFTA and was the one to sign it into law even if George HW began the process.

GATT was created in 1947, but it became the WTO in 1995 with the full support of Bill Clinton.

The repeal of Glass Steagall was a bi-partisan effort that passed the senate 90-8 and the house 362-57. Larry Summers and Robert Rubin, members of the Clinton administration fully supported the bill and were instrumental in crafting it and squelching any dissent from people like Brooksley Borne. The bill was signed by Bill Clinton with his full support.

I dont know why you are trying to purposefully misinform people about Bill Clinton's support for these horrible pieces of legislation, but literally all it takes is a quick Google search to empirically prove you wrong.

Bill Clinton supported all of those things you mentioned and most were passed with the support of the democrats in congress. Trying to make the case that all the democrats and Bill Clinton were against these things and were pushed through solely by the republican party is just not true in any way.

[coalition_unwilling]

117. Thank you. Based on denbot's post above, I was beginning to

think I had hallucinated much of the 1990s. Turns out denbot is the one who was hallucinating.

[EFerrari]

39. Bill Clinton is STILL free trading around the hemisphere.

He's one of the salesmen for the FTA with Colombia.

[femrap]

83. Clinton did exactly

what the Multi-National Corporations told him to do.

But at least during the '90's, these Multi-Nationals hired people in the USA. Not now.

[bvar22]

95. The Old Dog CAMPAIGNED on NAFTA!

How soon we forget (or distort).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rkgx1C_S6ls&feature=player_embedded

He also lobbied for the rest, and signed them into law.
Most of those "initiatives" could NOT have over ridden a veto.

[Overseas]

22. I'm in.

No more Republicanism please !

[madrchsod]

23. reagan would have been proud of bill`s "welfare reform"

[pinto]

25. I think the concept of President as Legislator-in-Chief has become overplayed.

The House and Senate remain the primary functions for legislation. The President maintains a role as leader of the party, whether in a minority or majority role vis-a-vis Congress, and always has the veto power on legislation submitted for a signature.

Yet I think we fail due diligence when we ascribe every legislative victory or defeat to the Presidency. Congress molds legislation. Congress holds the vote, yea or nay. I think we would do well to focus more on the legislative source, and the process.

:hi:

[Elwood P Dowd]

32. Just one simple example from each side:

NAFTA never would have passed the House without Clinton twisting arms and pulling every rabbit out of the hat to get a few Dems to change their positions.

The Medicare Drug Bill never would have passed without George W. Bush doing the same things with the repukes.

Don't tell me that Clinton or Bush had nothing to do with how Congress voted on legislation. I know better, and so do most here on DU.

[roguevalley]

44. Truman and the older ones showed it was possible because they

slapped the shit out of both sides to get things done. No one will go and take Max Baucus and slam his head against a wall. Harry Truman and FDR would.

[bvar22]

98. And LBJ !

Can you imagine Joe Lieberman stamping his little foot and telling LBJ "NO!"?
:rofl:

[AnneD]

148. LBJ would have grabbed Liberman....

By his short hairs, just like a bassett hound. Joe would be singing soprano in the Senate. He would talk to Hoover and get all the incrimeminating photos on the GOP "leader". He was a tough old bastard but he knew what it was like to grow up dirt poor. He taught Hispanic immigrant kids so he knew what poor was about. That's how his great society started. If he hadn't tripped up in VN, he would have gone down as one of our greatest presidents. No one has filled his shoes and I haven't seen a DEM that had his balls. ( I always remember that conversation with Mr. Hagar when he was ordering some pants that was recently released). I hate to even guess what he would say about GWB-snap out of it and act like a man would be the kindest.

[BrklynLiberal]

178. The "Johnson Treatment" lololol...if only there was someone aruond who could do this.

[Enthusiast]

194. LOL!

:rofl:

[bvar22]

198. Great Photos!!!!!

You didn't throw a hissy fit and say "NO" to that great President!!!

"Strong and successful presidents (meaning those who get what they want - whether that happens to be good for the country or not) do not accept "the best deal on the table". They take out their carpentry tools and the build the goddam piece of furniture themselves. Strong and successful presidents do not get dictated to by the political environment. They reshape the environment into one that is conducive to their political aspirations."

JBJ had the BALLS to STAND UP for something because it was the RIGHT thing to do,
even if he paid a political price.
QED: The Civil Rights Act

I am glad I lived during a time when DEMOCRATS STOOD FOR SOMETHING!
I would Go to the WALL for the Old Time Pro-Working Class FDR/JBJ DEMOCRATS!
.
.
.
Today's "Centrist NeoLIB New Democrats"?...not so much


I feel sorry for those so young to have never lived under a REAL Democratic President.
I can understand how they would think Bill Clinton was a great president.
They don't have memories of a REAL Democrat to compare him to.
I WILL admit that Bill WAS Smooth.
He could steal your money, destroy your jobs, and make you think he had done you a favor.

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[BrklynLiberal]

238. Standing ovation for that quote at the beginning of your post.

[Chan790]

224. Yes.

The mental-imagery results make me chuckle, but yes. There's a lot of literal and figurative arm-twisting in that mental image and Lieberman's on the short end of all of it.

[treestar]

108. +1

Some people get so fixated on the Presidency. It's easier than dealing with the complexities of Congress.

[bvar22]

199. Unless Congress does something good.

Then Obama gets full credit.

SEE: The LIST

[treestar]

239. Obama would get credit for signing these things

If they are good, along with Congress. If he vetoes anything an R Congress comes up with, then he gets credit. He is part of the process.

It's the people who seem to think that a President should be in complete control of Congress that bug me.

[bvar22]

241. Where are those people who think "the President should be in complete control"...

Did you make that up? :shrug:

Build a Strawman? :shrug:

or use the old Republican Artistic License to avoid the actual facts? :shrug:

Perhaps you could provide a link to somewhere on DU that supports your claim.
I've been here a long time,
and can't recall anyone ever claiming the the President should have complete control of Congress.

There ARE plenty of us who remember LBJ and the old Democratic Party,
and believe that Obama could and should be more assertive in protecting and advancing traditional Democratic Values.
When LBJ "didn't have the votes", he went out and GOT the votes.

"Strong and successful presidents (meaning those who get what they want - whether that happens to be good for the country or not) do not accept "the best deal on the table". They take out their carpentry tools and the build the goddam piece of furniture themselves. Strong and successful presidents do not get dictated to by the political environment. They reshape the environment into one that is conducive to their political aspirations."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/17

"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will stand up for working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone


"By their works you will know them."

[treestar]

243. there are zillions of links, which you well know

The ones blaming Obama that there was no bill with a public option. The ones saying Obama should "twist arms" which is "leading" because a POTUS should be powerful enough to get what he wants.

The ones who treat Obama as if he vetoed the public option, not as if the bill simply wouldn't have it since Lieberman did not want it and he allowed the filibuster.

The ones saying Obama was a homophobe until Congress finally did pass a repeal of DADT and Obama signed it, but Obama should somehow have made Congress do that the first day it was in session.

Millions of posts that treat things as though a POTUS is the boss of Congress.

[bvar22]

244. LOL.

Must be Zillion of 'em.
I just can't find any right now.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

229. If you don't know that presidents introduce legislation by designating

Congresscritters to do so...

How do you think the Patriot Act was introduced?

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. rec

[SugarShack]

31. Count me in!

[ingac70]

33. k&r

[napoleon_in_rags]

34. Not I.

Say what you will about Clinton being a prelude to the current problems, but the fact is that those teenage years when Clinton was in were the last time I remember sanity in government, a government not flying helicopters in circles over our houses looking for terrists, a government not about to default under the weight of its own debt. Policy for policy you can argue what you want, but those times were my last memory of sanity.

[roguevalley]

45. And that is the saddest part of all. I can remember many years.

I guess your age colors your view.

[Fumesucker]

48. The helicopters were flying in circles around your house looking for dopers then.

Not really an improvement, IMO.

[coalition_unwilling]

125. Saying that Clinton is better than Bush is damning

Clinton with faint praise indeed, imho.

Now you have Clinton consorting with Ryan, a tool who would eviscerate one or more of the foundations of the New Deal\Great Society. And you're still willing to give Clinton the benefit of the doubt?

Not I. I'm done with Bill Clinton. As the OP suggests, Clinton should just STFU and go away (or be forcibly expelled from the Dem Party).

[Avant Guardian]

128. What 'consorting' is Clinton doing with Ryan?

Bill Clinton was a much more effective president than Obama. He didn't include 'every republican idea' into everything.

[coalition_unwilling]

137. Have you been paying attention to the story as reported on

ABC News and other major media outlets?

Clinton and Ryan appear together at some political event. Clinton tells Ryan that he (Clinton) hopes Dems will not use the victory in NY-26 (a victory based on attacking Ryan's plans for Medicare) as an excuse to 'do nothing' vis-a-vis Medicare and that Ryan should call Clinton, presumably to discuss doing something vis-a-vis Medicare.

Clinton's wink-wink nod-nod to Ryan serves to legitimize Ryan's plan to privatize Medicare at the expense of Hochsul and other Dems who have adamantly sworn that cuts to Medicare are 'off the table.' In so doing, Clinton lends political cover to Ryan and the Repukes, a fact demonstrated by the fact that the very next day Fox News was using Clinton's remarks to bash Dems who attack Ryan's Medicare proposal.

I don't know what you call it, but I call it 'consorting' (in the basest sense of the term) with the enemy. Clinton should be formally rebuked by the National Dem Party leadership and even possibly forcibly expelled from the party. Many DUers who are equally apalled at Clinton's behavior but who know more about Dem Insider Baseball say there's no chance Clinton will be expelled or even censured. But if the Dem Party won't censure Clinton for his treason toward the New Deal and Great Society, then why have a Dem Party?

[Avant Guardian]

159. Yes

I saw the video. Your whole premise is based on presumptions. Presumptions are based on prejudice, not fact.

[coalition_unwilling]

166. I think you are confusing premise with assertion. My premise is

that Democrats should not undermine the New Deal and Great Society. My assertion is that Clinton's nod-nod wink-wink to Ryan undermines the New Deal and Great Society. My conclusion is that there need to be serious and severe consequences for Clinton for undermining a foundation of the modern Democratic Party.

[Avant Guardian]

169. Your use of terms like 'wink-wink nod-nod' and 'presumably' say it all

Assume much?

[napoleon_in_rags]

203. I don't agree with your interpretation of events.

Clinton wouldn't support the Ryan plan...Its not necessarily even that the guy is too moral - its that the guy is too good of a politician. The Ryan plan is a political turd and Dems are cleaning up by standing up for care of seniors, and unless Clinton is going senile and forgetting his old ways, he totally sees that.

[EFerrari]

35. Don't forget Haiti.

He killed their ag sector and after apologizing for that, head up the mission to collect a bunch of money the Haitian people will never see.

[TimLighter]

46. But he saved Rwanda didn't he...

oh right, he apologized for that too.

[NYC Liberal]

36. Not me. n/t

[Zoeisright]

52. Not me either.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

43. Awwww

[Waiting For Everyman]

38. I sure do! Clinton is on a par with Phil Gramm and the other corpofascists in my book.

He screwed this country up just as much as Reagan did. That would be bad enough if he had stopped doing it. But he's still at it, and that tells me he's simply flaunting the damage he's doing now. Yes he needs to STFU and go away. Absolutely.

Fuck him. He has a lot of very bad karma coming his way. He's just as bad as any of the bloodsuckers he schmoozes with.

DINO. If he had honest moment, he'd change parties. I think he actually IS coaching Paul Ryan. And he's probably why Obama has made some sell-out moves, I wouldn't be surprised.

He is a snake in the grass. He's well off himself, and yet he can't stop dreaming up ways to take more from people who are hurting.

[Scuba]

47. Left the gov't with a surplus and the Democratic party morally bankrupt in the eyes of many. n/t

[Exilednight]

50. That pretty much sums up my view of him. Too bad Obama is following in his steps. n/t

[Firebrand Gary]

49. This is a stupid post.

I love Bubba. Remember it's not easy to go first.

[Baby Bear]

53. Right On

All this Clinton bashing is unproductive. The problem is the Republicans.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[femrap]

86. How about just calling

it 'The Working People's Party?'

[Baby Bear]

54. Over the top

Stab in the back? Where have I heard that one before? Oh, yeah. Now I remember.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

55. Me, me, me.

Of course, I wish the entire coporatocracy and their enablers would STFU and go away.

[brooklynite]

56. Unrec'd

As with two dozen other threads that have appeared in the last 48 hours, the OP apparently has no idea of what Clinton actually said.

1. He said Democrats shouldn't take NY-26 as an excuse to do nothing about Medicare - TRUE. Medicare will need restructuring AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, and the responsible thing to do if you want to get control of the House again is show you have positive ideas for future problems.

2. He said costs could be saved - TRUE. Medicare could benefit from reducing fraudulent charges, Govt negotiation for lower drug costs and any number of other cost efficienies.

He never talked about privatizing. He never talked about reducing benefits. He never potted with Paul Ryan.

But don't let the facts get in a way of a good diatribe.

[coalition_unwilling]

129. 'He never potted with Paul Ryan'???? I have no idea what

you're getting at there, maybe something about 'trying it but not inhaling'? :)

[Hubert Flottz]

57. K&R

[DCBob]

58. I think Bill still has alot to offer and is a net positive for the party.

but he needs to be alot more careful with his words.

[sulphurdunn]

102. Yes,

Clinton is a net positive for the Party. That's the problem.

[sulphurdunn]

104. I've come to wonder

if our political parties haven't become what monastic orders were during the Middle Ages: the best chance for ambitious peasants to work their way into the ruling class.

[coalition_unwilling]

139. Nope, that's what colleges and universities today are for. But

interesting idea :)

[scarletwoman]

61. Oh yes. Add me to the list.

I also remember the pardon of Marc Rich, and bombing the shit out of Yugoslavia.

sw

[coalition_unwilling]

140. Don't forget those 500,000 dead Iraqi children. Oh, wait, Madeleine

Albright said their deaths were 'worth it' so that makes it OK.

:sarcasm:

[bertman]

62. I loved the guy until his policies started taking effect. Yes, Bill, STFU! REC. nt

[Fuddnik]

63. Take Hillary and Obama with him.

And Liebermoron, and Schumer, and all the rest of the Republicans.

[End Of The Road]

64. No, but I'm about ready for Carter to STFU and go away.

Still love Bill.

[Roy Rolling]

65. Settle Down, Beavis

That's all I gotta say, or as the Rolling Stones sang: "You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need."

[JDPriestly]

66. Pete Peterson and his crowd must give great parties.

Wonder what they put in the punch?

Dollar bills? The Clintons enriched themselves very quickly over the past ten years. Where do you suppose the money came from? Certainly not from you and me.

And Obama is headed in the same direction.

[truedelphi]

200. So sad, and so true. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. Yes, I was happy when he won in 1992, BUT...

I voted for Nader in 1996 as a protest against NAFTA, Welfare Reform, DADT, and there were a lot of other little issues that bugged the hell out of me.

A friend who is a student of American history theorized at the time that Clinton, having grown up poor but ambitious, wanted more than anything to be liked by the upper classes. He therefore was capable of putting on the common touch but deep down, he was willing to do anything to stay in the good graces of the elites.

The fact that some DUers think of Clinton as the best president of their lifetimes is an indication of how far this country has fallen.

[maddiemom]

68. Bill Clinton

I do agree with your gripes. Clinton was the biggest political disappointment in my lifetime. The Paul Ryan thing was the clincher. I hadn't heard about the Jerome Corsi thing. Is this true or another one of the crazy Clinton rumors. And that's the thing. The man is brilliant, and the rest of the world seems to revere him far more than this country does. No matter how controversial, I do admire Hillary, and feel her coming to prominence through him was a plus. Say what you will, Clinton has always put us in favor with the rest of the world; Republicans seem to care less about that; a mistake in modern times. I feel that the book and film, "Primary Colors" was a pretty good take on the Clinton conumdrum

[Avant Guardian]

113. He was better than what we have now

Hands down

[Bobbie Jo]

155. LOL

Hooookay. :rofl:

1992 was better than "what we have now." A little perspective is in order, ya think?

[Avant Guardian]

162. One of Clintons first actions was to reverse Reaganomics

He did it without including 'every republican idea' like Obama did with his health care plan. Clinton was pragmatic when it came to dealing with the republican hate machine.

Ironically, everything Clinton did that the Obama folks bash him for, Obama favors.

[Bobbie Jo]

171. Except....

Clinton didn't deliver health care. There's a reason for that.

Your hyperbolic "every republican idea," shows your willingness to overstate and disregard facts that don't conform to your opinion.

As you said....."hatred needs an outlet."

[AtomicKitten]

227. Explains a lot, doesn't it?

:crazy:

:hi:

[lutherj]

69. The subversive thing about Bill Clinton, the reason the republicans hated him,

was that he made government look good. He made it look like it works. I don't disagree with the many criticisms here. I'm just pointing out the strategy. Clinton took Reagan's absurd deficits which were supposed to be the rationale for getting rid of government programs that conservatives hate and turned them around into a surplus. He created a fiscal plan to pay off the national debt. The republicans tried to impeach him because he was undermining their long-term strategy of sabotaging the federal government and turning the citizens against government. The first thing GWB did when he got into office was drag the economy out into the rose garden and put a bullet through its head. He was pissed. It's hard work wrecking an economy, you know.

[paulk]

221. +1

[lonestarnot]

70. k & r

and take that booger shirt with him!

[maddiemom]

71. Elwood P. Dowd

P.S. to my previous post: How's your big white rabbit, Elwood? Interesting choice of an internet signature.

[Mimosa]

73. ME! K&R!

He was the main reason I couldn't support Hillary's candidacy.

[R. P. McMurphy]

74. Count me in. n/t

[rateyes]

76. Yep

[bemildred]

77. Aye. nt

[Ferret Annica]

78. I never voted for Bill, and I've never liked him

I give him credit where credit is due for the good things he did do and he is worthy of respect in a way the Bushes will never know.

In fact, if he had been POTUS for 16 years and we missed ut on the Smurk and Snarl show, we would be better off in terms of the budget and economy. But if it were 1992 again, I still would not vote for him.

[bluestate10]

79. Bill Clinton is one of the few national democrats that can state policy and consequences in

clear terms that working people understand. He should have been harder on Ryan. Clinton has stated on the record that Ryan's plan is the wrong approach, but Clinton realizes that one does not close the door on adversaries. The fabled call that Clinton asked Ryan to do could be to allow Clinton to show Ryan where and why his budget is shit.

[ctwayne]

81. Nobody is Better at Handling Budgets than Clinton

Clinton took a large Republican deficit and turned it into a large surplus. He did it mostly by raising taxes without the votes of a single Republican. Bush Junior created huge deficits by repealing the Bill tax rates. Obama has kept all the Bush rates intact.

[harmonicon]

84. I don't.

He's now a private citizen entitled to his opinions, and anyone can take or leave them. Of course I disagree with many things he did while in office, but he didn't involve our military in quagmires, didn't have a patriot act, didn't have illegal prisons and kangaroo courts, etc., etc. He also presided over the country during a time of great economic prosperity. Instead of having him go away, I'd gladly have him as president again.

[Plucketeer]

85. Yeah - Bill Clinton - get lost

And furthermore, standing in for the current Prez (remember that?) makes me wanna say....... nah, I ain't gonna say it. I'll just think it. :evilfrown:

[SDuderstadt]

87. Not me n/t

[Mosaic]

88. Thanks for that

He needs to go away, and I know where he's going in the afterlife.

[wpelb]

90. Dubya didn't have this problem

There were only two former Republican presidents alive at the time of his inauguration, and one of them was his dad. The other was Pres. Reagan, who was in the advanced stages of Alzheimer's, and thus not able to engage in political activity.

For Pres. Obama, however, the situation is different. Both of his Democratic Party predecessors, but especially Bill Clinton, are still alive and politically active. Moreover, former Pres. Clinton is the husband of Obama's Secretary of State, so it's hard to criticize him or dismiss him as irrelevant. The question that some may ask, however, is whether Clinton is trying to subtly sabotage Obama's presidency to pave the way for Mrs. Clinton to be elected to the position in her own right, giving Bill Clinton a de facto third--and possibly fourth--term.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoisB]

92. Clinton

I never understood why liberals treated (and continue to treat) this man as a star. He, as much as anyone, is responsible for the current state of this country. As far as I am concerned, Clinton is only interested in Clinton and always has been. Ross Perot sure called it right on the "giant sucking sound" and Clinton did all he could to make sure we all heard it. He's as "corporate" as they come.

[proReality]

96. His shine wore off several years ago. n/t

[slay]

97. As my awesome political science teacher used to say: "Clinton was the best Republican president

we've had in his lifetime." NAFTA. ugh! yeah i'm no fan of Bill's.

For some insight on how Bill was so corrupt even as governor - check out the documentary Mena Connection: Compromised: Clinton, Bush and the CIA, Drug smuggling. Link to vid here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8681225708920427234#

"An independent group of researchers in Arkansas are charging that Governor Bill Clinton is covering up an airport used by the CIA and major cocaine smugglers in a remote corner of the Ozark mountains."

[bvar22]

101. His title of "Best Republican President Ever"

is in jeopardy.

It won't be near as much fun being 2nd Best Republican President Ever.
Who Thrill Fucks 2nd Place?

[slay]

I agree

we indeed sadly have another Dem contender for the title.

[Downtown Hound]

99. Bill Clinton can go suck on an exhaust pipe

He killed more Iraqis through sanctions than the first Bush did with Gulf War 1. Yet he gets a pass from many liberals on it. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[Smarmie Doofus]

100. Pretty much. He doesn't feel my pain. K and R nt

[Avant Guardian]

103. Clinton was one of the greatest Democratic presidents in history

I wish he could run for a third term.

I find it really weird that a lot of Obama supporters feel obligated to hate him. Ironically, Obama supports every thing in your list. Hate blinds.

[Downtown Hound]

115. He ran a tech bubble economy which collapsed

He built more prisons than any other president in recent history, he repealed Glass-Stegall which greatly contributed to the collapse of 2008, he signed NAFTA into law, he made virtually no strides in civil rights, the income inequality in this country went UP under his rule, not down, and more than 500,00 Iraqis died from his sanctions.

Bill Clinton sucks donkey balls.

And the really sad thing is, he actually was better than most presidents in recent history. That is absolutely pathetic.

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PragmaticLiberal]

153. Thats interesting because in my time on DU...

I've found much more "hate" spewed at Obama from Clinton supporters than vice versa.


Personally, I respect both of the Clintons as well Obama.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

231. I don't like either Clinton or Obama

They are both huge disappointments.

[lunatica]

110. He acts like he needs everyone's fucking love

He sure kisses a lot of Republican asses. As critical as this sounds I like him, except he really does seem to mew at them for attention.

[kentuck]

112. Was anyone this angry with Clinton when he was President?

Why did he piss you off so much?

[Downtown Hound]

118. See post #115.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Downtown Hound]

124. "They are angry with Clinton because his wife had a tough primary fight with Obama"

Um, no. That's not it.

[Avant Guardian]

130. Yes it is

That is when the Clinton hate started. For some odd reason, a lot of core Obama supporters think there is some sort of rivalry between the two. There is no rivalry, Clinton works with and for Obama. It is all about blind hate.

[Downtown Hound]

133. Fine, go ahead and lie to yourself if it makes you feel better about your hero

But know that I always get a kick out of people that ignore legitimate issues people have with his policies and just take the rather lame path of, "It's all about blind hate."

The sure sign of somebody living in denial.

[Avant Guardian]

160. The whole Clinton hate of today is based on presumptions

not facts

[Downtown Hound]

183. Really? He didn't sign NAFTA into law?

He didn't build more prisons than any other recent president? He didn't kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqis through sanctions? He didn't repeal Glass-Stegall?

Just what are these facts that I'm missing?

[AtomicKitten]

233. The repeal of Glass-Steagall was arguably the root cause of the 2008 crash.

It's certainly convenient to be able to walk away from the scene of the crime years before the repercussions occur.

[Warren Stupidity]

176. "Name Removed" is quite prolific in this thread. nt.

[eleny]

120. I sure was

I was working at Human Services and witnessed what his "reforms" accomplished. Plus, NAFTA galled me to no end.

Oh yeah, I was pretty angry.

[Name removed]

136. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nye Bevan]

143. Lingering anger at the Lewinsky scandal? (nt)

[SoapBox]

114. Me too...

"How many here wish Bill Clinton would just STFU and go away?"

Yup!

What the hell Bill? Are we going to start calling you "Billo" like other Bills we know and don't like?

Shame on you.

[2banon]

126. Here! Here! n/t rec

[on point]

134. The DLC shows itself not to be interested in the people

[cascadiance]

141. DLC was "shut down" when Koch brothers found a "better way" through Citizen's United...

... to corrupt politicians than throwing their money at the DLC directly...

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/02/07/dlc_to_shut_down.html

http://www.americablog.com/2010/08/koch-industries-gave-funding-to-dlc-and.html

Stop the Kochaine Koolaid Klub!

[TBF]

146. And as far as I'm concerned that applies to Mr. Clinton,

Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama. But given that capitalism is our economic system I really wouldn't expect much better from any candidate without substantial systemic changes.

[Nye Bevan]

142. Wow. Astounding to see so much hatred for a good Democratic president on this board.

Clinton raised taxes on the rich when necessary, reduced the deficit, and brought the unemployment rate down to around 4%. And I agree with Nobel prize winner Paul Krugman that NAFTA was a good thing. It sounds like quite a few DUers must have voted for Perot, given their hated of NAFTA and that he was the only candidate who opposed it.

And it's amazing that so many criticize Clinton for his sanctions on Iraq. Obviously Saddam needed to be reined in somehow, and I think that sanctions are preferable to a stupid, ill-planned and incompetently executed war and occupation.

[Cherchez la Femme]

147. Amazing, isn't it?

:::looking around the New DU:::: Nah, maybe not so amazing after all.

(Mind you, Clinton did PLENTY I hated. He also did much good. What the balance is between them though I cannot say)

[coalition_unwilling]

154. Jesus H. Christ, after 1992 Saddam Hussein had no more WMDs.

They had all been destroyed, according to a relative or in law who was in charge of the WMD programs who defected to Jordan in 1995 and was exhaustively debriefed by the CIA and Western Intelligence services there at the time!

There was no 'need' to rein in Saddam after Gulf War 1, as there was nothing left to 'rein in.' Those sanctions you are touting, it is widely acknowledged, are responsible for the otherwise-preventable deaths of approximately 500,000 Iraqi children. What moral universe do you inhabit that says that sanctions justify the death of even 1 child, much less 500,000? Could it be the same moral universe as Madeleine Albright?

In fact, the whole sorry saga of those sanctions blighted our image in the Middle East, long before Operation Shocking and Awful and Abu Ghraib put the final nails in the coffin. To wit, Hussein complied with our initial set of demands, so we simply changed the demands and when he wouldn't comply with those new demands, we maintained the sanctions.

[Elwood P Dowd]

173. How anyone can say NAFTA was "a good thing" for our country and our workers is disgusting.

NAFTA and our other insane free trade deals have cost us 10 million jobs and 8 trillion dollars in current account deficits over the past 20-25 years. Last year alone we rang up a current account deficit close to 500 billion dollars. NAFTA shouldn't even be called a "Free Trade" deal but instead an investment/outsourcing scam designed to enrich wealthy investors and corporate executives.

[Nye Bevan]

180. So Paul Krugman is an idiot, Nobel or no? (nt)

[Elwood P Dowd]

181. He is on NAFTA. Just look at the results of it -- massive disaster for our balance of trade and

for our workers. In fact, most US economists were wrong on NAFTA. The results are in, and those results are the exact opposite of what the economists predicted.

[Forkboy]

206. Are the only two points on your political compass "agree with everything" and "agree with nothing"?

[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woofless]

144. Me.

[Jim_Shorts]

156. On the whole - Clinton sucks

Things went very good while he was president - created jobs - balanced the budget ect.., but the legislation that got passed on HIS watch hurt us badly for the long run.

I also wish he would just go hang out with his real friends, Bushes and the Saudi Royal family and STFU.

But he now rakes in millions for just opening his yap, so I'm sure it will continue.

[Gregorian]

158. From posts on this very forum, I know there was more to the Glass-Steagall vote than it appears.

And sometimes I wonder what would happen if Barney Frank or Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders were president.

I'm not defending nor condemning. I just wonder. I wonder if it really is a mess in that White House. Maybe FDR wouldn't be FDR.

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

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[Lucian]

177. He was the best Republican president this country has ever had.

I don't care for him now and didn't care for him then.

[Baby Bear]

179. I don't feel your pain

I like Bill.

[Name removed]

182. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vssmith]

184. Eisenhower was more liberal than a LOTS of todays Democrats

[MrMickeysMom]

185. I think the "Big Dog"'s work is pretty much done here...

As Democrats, we should be grateful for his fiscal policies at first blush. But, then you have to see how absolutely damaging it was to have had the "global market place" produce that GIANT SUCKING SOUND Perot warned us about.

Why have enemies when you have friends like this?

Then, to see his ad-lib with Paul Ryan ... I wanted to :puke:

[Enthusiast]

186. I agree. K&R.

My real worry is that President Obama is a rewind of Clinton. Obama's ideology isn't clear to me. His appointments make me justifiably suspicious. The nation has been damaged enough. We must have positive progressive measures, leadership and direction. Compromising with an ideology that is destroying us is unacceptable. But, I suspect it goes deeper than simple compromise.

[earcandle]

187. They all suck. Repukes and Dems as well. We are fucked. They are rich and eating off the hog.

How will this play out?

[RB TexLa]

192. I don't

[chowder66]

196. Not me. I want to know what he meant so that would mean he needs to speak about it. eom

[davidwparker]

197. Yes, I'm way past both Clintons. n/t

[flamingdem]

201. Hillary sucks on Latin America, don't know if Bill is an influence there

She was sadly on the side of the thugs in Honduras, overly hates on the left and gives Obama views directly from her sister-in-law, a right wing Cuban American lawyer married to her brother.

[DeSwiss]

207. K&R n/t

[sharp_stick]

208. 170 recs for this POS

Fucking pathetic and I'm not sure if I mean the OP or the number of me too's.

I notice one hell of a lot of ignoreds on the list so I must be doing something right.

[madinmaryland]

210. THE BIG DAWG!!!

:woohoo:

[DFW]

211. He put Breyer and Ginsburg on the Supreme Court

For that alone, I'll be eternally glad he was president and not Bush Senior
for a second term, nominating more Clarence Thomas clones.

[MasonJar]

212. I totally disagree. America was prosperous under Bill Clinton, a brilliant man

with a vision who is still a leader in the world and well respected by our Allies. People had jobs, taxes were fair and Bill kept a smile on his face despite the fact that the GOPers attacked him mercilessly from the day he first entered Washington.

[Nye Bevan]

213. DUers are just not that impressed by 4% unemployment (nt)

[Raine]

214. I used to love Clinton, now I can't stand him ... he needs to BUTT OUT!!! nt

edit: typo

[Kurovski]

215. He's much too much of a far right wing Democrat.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

216. Clinton's a political/media whore hoping someone will quote him.

[Blue_In_AK]

217. me

[jberryhill]

218. And FDR didn't allow a racially integrated military

But, you know what, not every kick in soccer is a goal. Sometimes the best you can get is a kick closer to the goal.

[mistertrickster]

219. Yeah, but he did make it much harder for Gore to win by having a sleazy affair,

lying about it, and then not stepping down.

No shame.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

220. He made a poor 1st impression and an even worse lasting impression.

[lunasun]

222. dont forget his slimey DADT crap either after his election

This man lied in a sexual harrassment case
he testified under oath

and some people see nothing wrong with NaFTa OR GATT etc.as long as they made their $$ in the stock market in the 90's they dont care how they got it or what other Americans didn't benefit

Never a fan of slick WIlly or his Mrs. and never did/would vote for slime of either gender.
They even said they wanted to play just like repugs

but amazing how many are big time fans to this day!.........again places like Columbia are "not important" to them.....well not at this moment in time

Glass-Steagall htat should of been the kicker for most but I guess not

:eyes:

[strawberryfield]

232. Bill Clinton was Reagan's 4th and 5th terms

Oh, he threw the left a few bones on social issues, but his economics were right out of the Repuks play book. I will give him credit, he executed Repuk policy better than any Repuk could ever do.

[Nye Bevan]

234. Raising the top tax rate from 36% to 39.6% is out of the Repukes' playbook?

I did not know that.

[SusanaMontana41]

237. I'm in. n/t

[individual rights]

240. If I recall correctly, things were a lot better under Clinton than they are under Obama.