Has it ever been worse?

[Robyn66]

I ask this of the more mature DU'ers who have seen more of life than I.

My memory only goes back to Watergate, and then I was only 7 years old and didn't care about it. It was just the thing that got in the way of Sesame Street.

I was born in Germany in 1966 in Frankfurt at the 97th General Army Hospital, shortly thereafter my parents were sent to Fort Gordon Georgia where we lived in Augusta until 1968. My parents told me that one night some people came to our door and suggested very strongly that my father "take the family for a ride" because a black family was planning to move into the neighborhood and they needed to take care of it. When we got home late that night the house the black family was supposed to move in to had burned down.

We then moved to Massachusetts where I enjoyed my 1970's childhood of riding my bike from sun up to sun down for miles without fear of pedophiles, playing in my grandparents 12 acres of land but vaguely knowing from the evening news there were bad things going on in the world. We watched the Viet Nam war on TV at night. And since I was raised by staunch REpublicans, they told me how crazy and bad the hippies where when I didn't think it was nice what the police were doing. I grew up thinking police were good and you went to them when you were in trouble.

As I got older my life got a lot more complicated and my home life became a hell hole of abuse but that is not what I am talking about right now.

I voted for Regan in my first election because that was who I was supposed to vote for

I voted for the first Bush for the same reason.

When Clinton was elected I was told it was the end of the world but I found that it was nt and that was pretty cool. And, I got mad when I saw what the Republicans did because they were idiots.

But even then it wasn't this bad, and the American people weren't THIS stupid.

I am really afraid. I am afraid of how really bad the people in power are right now. I am not talking about the president. I think he is a wonderful human being, but without the congress behind him he cant do what he wants to do. (call me an idealist but that is how I feel)

I fear for where we are headed. I honestly don't know if it has ever been this bad or if it can ever get better. Will people see that they are voting against their own interest's? Can these Republicans REALLY be doing to the country what they KNOW they are doing?

Has it EVER BEEN THIS BAD BEFORE?

I am running out of hope that it will get better.

[slackmaster]

1. LOL!

Wut?

[abelenkpe]

12. WTF? nt

[slackmaster]

18. The present time has nothing on January of 1861 for the country being messed up

Not even close.

[reggie the dog]

23. i think they mean

has it ever been this bad in our lifetimes...

[slackmaster]

36. The Vietnam War era and the events that led up to Nixon's resignation were way up there

It depends a lot on what's important to an observer personally.

[reggie the dog]

41. and when they lived and when they were old enough to

understand what was going on, i was born in 1979, vietnam was a history lesson for me, for those of you alive then it was much much different

[Mike 03]

2. I'm almost exactly your age and have seen what you have seen

It IS bad, no doubt. And a large percentage of the middle-class ARE stupid and ignorant and vote against their own best interest.

But it usually gets really bad before it gets better.

Good luck.

[Kaleva]

3. The Civil War & the Great Depression were good times.

[emulatorloo]

9. Tammany Hall Era was a blissful times too. Ah the days of Boss Tweed!

Then there was that whole south

[LiberalLoner]

4. Not since I can remember. Born in 1961 here. n/t k&r

[old mark]

5. Back when Newt was Speaker, and DeMint and others were bragging about

the "permanent republican majority" in Congress, but they seem almost sane compared to some of the bozos that hold office as of today.

What scares me is that so many Americans think these people are normal and qualified to hold office...People actually think Palin would be a good president! It's hard for me to comprehend that.

mark

[Robyn66]

6. That is EXACTLY what I mean! (nt)

[old mark]

22. W seemed to break the ice for presidents who were less than anyone else

who held the office in modern times...If you thought Bush II was a great president, Palin might just be acceptable, too. Then, there is the "religious" component who think Palin - and Bachmann and others - are somehow ordained by god to lead America. These people are exactly the same as the Taliban, except they are here and in our congress.

Scarey, yes, indeed.

mark

[emulatorloo]

10. Media "mainstreamed" Palin. Then they "mainstreamed" Palin

and they treated all these fringe kook kandidates (O'Connell, Engle, Paul) as if they were rational and mainstream.

It is a real serious problem. Media did not do that with John Birch Society for example.

[RKP5637]

13. +1000 +++ n/t

[woodsprite]

30. I'll go one better -- What scares me

are the people around (general public and some on DU too) who really want her on a ticket because they think that will guarantee a Dem win. IMO, I'd rather pick the most competent of each party rather than play Russian Roulette with voting. I think there are PLENTY of people out there stupid enough to actually vote for that ticket.

[DrDan]

37. I think you are exactly correct

there were posts here several months ago saying there was no way Rand Paul could beat a Dem.

I know - I was subject to the abuse of one poster - "got a live one here - he thinks Rand Paul has a chance". Got worse from there. I had simply expressed a feeling similar to yours.

Sure - from our point of view these guys are idiots. But . . . . they have the support of voters - millions of voters. And there are moneyed interests that would like nothing more than to see palin elected - or even that idiot bachmann. Look what money has bought us in Florida - marco rubio and rick scott.

Never underestimate the power of money.

[old mark]

42. Many years ago, I laughed at Reagan running for Governor of California...

who would vote for that asshole? I was very wrong that time, and I learned that what I think is often at odds with what "real Americans" think...

I thought Sestak would win here in PA, but we now have a new GOP Senator...


mark

[RKP5637]

39. Yeah, my concern too. Never underestimate the stupidity of

American voters.

[DrDan]

46. or the power of money

[RKP5637]

48. Yep, that sure is true and SCOTUS has certainly helped that along for corporate

takeover of the country.

[SpiralHawk]

7. "You forgot to mention my glorious reign. Smirk." - xCommander AWOL (R)

"I can guaran-damn-tee you things can get worser and worser, specially now that my RepubliCronies is back in the House. Smirk."

- xCommander AWOL (R)

[county worker]

8. I was born in 1946. Luckily for me I was born a white male.

It has been worse for minorities and women. Now it will be bad for all of us I am afraid. My saving grace is that I was born in 1946. I will be dead and gone when the real shit hits the fan.

My regret is that my generation became so taken with self interests and materialism and forgot what we fought for in the 60's. Life will be harder for those coming after us. I can only hope that people will rise up and take back the country from the corporations.

[WingDinger]

21. What color are you now?

[county worker]

24. meaning?

[WingDinger]

33. Think about the joke!

[mwb970]

45. ?

[RKP5637]

11. I'm a little older and have always voted democratic as have my parents. IMO

many people of today are less informed, are proud of their ignorance and are easily manipulated by all of the propaganda. When I was growing up we sure knew we didn't know everything and tried to find out some facts.

What I sense today is more division in the country. I know we sure had it back then, but somehow today people are proud of voting their rights away and voting away a better future.

I think the next two years will be quite telling. I don't agree with all Obama is doing, but I'm not an Obama basher and I'm smart enough to know it could be far worse.

Like I said, we'll have to see what happens over the next two years. If some of what the republicans are yammering about comes true, there are going to be a lot of bad things going on.

I am hopeful Americans will start waking up. Right now, I feel like we're heading back toward the Bush years. I am uncomfortable with it all.

[jeepnstein]

17. The Bush Years...

will be looked upon as a nostalgic time when gentlemen from both sides of the aisle worked together for the greater good compared to what's coming in the next two years. I predict it will be some freakishly disgusting display of what makes the GOP really tick.

[RKP5637]

38. Yep! Even now I look back at Nixon and think he wasn't really that bad compared

to the Bush years and what is possibly coming, as you said, "some freakishly disgusting display of what makes the GOP really tick."

[Hannah Bell]

14. not in the post-ww2 period, imo. longest run of high unemployment, for sure.

[kctim]

15. Depends entirely on what side of the aisle you are on

[slackmaster]

16. I disagree

It depends on many things, including your age, how accurately you remember past events, and your knowledge of history.

[kctim]

27. Valid point

Of course, it could also be said that how one remembers the events and history of the issues Robyn mentions is determined by their political leanings.

[33Greeper]

19. It could be a lot worse

[sakabatou]

25. Yup. Imagine if McCain won.

:scared:

[hfojvt]

20. I think we make it bad with out 24/7 negativity

a hundred times a day you will read on DU about some moron, or some really outrageous act, or some criminal negligence. It seems to be part of what a discussion board does, is bring to people's attention all of the most heinous actions and statements and allows hundreds or thousands of readers to think to themselves "what the fuck is wrong with people?" and then expand that to "What the fuck is wrong with the world?"

You think that Palin is an idiot. Too stupid to be President. Really? Have you forgotten W? That guy was dumber than a stump and he was there for two terms. And what about Reagan? Or Quayle? Neither of them were even close to the sharpest tools in the shed.

But back when they were around we did not have an internet to allow us to hear about it every time they farted, or opened some other orifice.

The internet seems to me to be a world of hype. Nothing is ever just bad. It is always atrocious, horrifying, terrible, unbelievable, awful, one step away from the end of the world. Even in Australia.

For some reason though, the sun usually manages to struggle its way over the horizon and begin a new day.

[theophilus]

26. What with over population, peak oil, climate change....No. It has

never been worse since humans put on the thin cloak of civilization. IMO. We are running out of options and stupid kills.

[pitohui]

28. it was ever thus, my friend

for most of the roughly 10,000 years of human history, life has been a hell of slavery and suffering for everyone except the very rich, and even most of them were pretty miserable too

how can you look at the grand sweep of things with a straight face and say "i honestly don't know if it has ever been this bad"

i mean, we're talking slavery, de facto slavery of women, various holocausts and ethnic genocides, wars so gruesome that entire male generations were wiped out (civil war and ww1 jump to mind but i'm sure there were many others), wars lasting hundreds of years in europe, the black plague wiping out a majority of the human race on whole continents and so on and so forth

in any genuine sense, it has RARELY ever been better, in fact, we live in one of the better times to be alive if you're female, black, etc. -- i'm frustrated that it has taken us 10,000 years to get this far and much of the progress will never be enjoyed by me and maybe not by you, but i can see that there IS progress

human lifespans are short and the struggle against evil/greed is v. difficult but if we look back over time w. a calm mind we have to agree that it's getting better

besides, any day i wake up and dumbya is not in office is a huge improvement over just a few short years ago, the usa was the joke of the world, now at least we can make the slow climb toward civilization

and truthfully, the human race is probably VERY lucky to have survived the reagan era, home of "the missiles were launched 5 minutes ago," you don't know bad dreams until you have a drunk w. alzheimer's having his fingers on the nuclear codes (contrary to revisionist history, everyone moderately well informed knew perfectly well that reagan was senile even in 1980)

[RKP5637]

40. Yep, Reagan certainly had his share of senior moments early on ... I recall when

he used to do those silent pauses, I used to wonder WTF and that was certainly well before his health problems were known to the public.

[delightfulstar]

29. I guess it could be...

We could still have Dubya as commander-and-thief. Now we're just trying to clean up the aftermath.

[pacalo]

31. Great Depression & the McCarthy era were bad, shameful periods, but Bush Jr. brought in

the neo-conservatives & twisted logic that led us here. Actually, his presidency made those ten years the absolute worst of modern times for too many reasons to list. And his policies are still with us, snowballing in a forward direction. We now have the ineptly-named Tea Party & the Citizens United SCOTUS decision, threats to Social Security & Medicare, etc.

I have to remind myself that the bad times run in cycles, & are usually put to an end after they come to a head, then comes reform to better times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Yes...

The great depression at the end of the Jackson years lasted 10 years... that is in the early 19th century.

Then there is that minor squabble called the civil war...

the 1873 crash...

The whole Gilded Age.

then in the 20th century you got both the Great Depression and that other minor thing called WW II.

The years between 1945 and 1980 were unusually stable (by design) and since the means of control were ripped off, we have entered another era of economic malaise... we need things like Glass Steagal back in the books to return that kind of stability as well as living wages. That ain't the plan. The Republicans want to return you to the glory days of the Gilded Age.

[OKNancy]

34. In my lifetime Nixon and Vietnam were much worse

1968 to 1972 was a horror show.

[End Of The Road]

35. I think it has been this way for a long time.

The first half of the 20th century is ancient history, but the political discourse was venomous. Certainly not everyone loved FDR, but Father Coughlin is an interesting case. He had a very popular political radio show, not unlike Rush, and was initially very supportive of the New Deal. But he turned against it around 1936 and it got very ugly. I seem to recall that he's been dubbed the "father of hate radio."

Then we got THE BOMB, which gave us the Cold War and the Domino Theory.

1950s: McCarthyism, among others.

1960s: Take a look at the presidential election in 1964 - Goldwater vs. Johnson. Goldwater wanted to end the New Deal social programs, including Social Security. Sound familiar?

Also in the 60s: Civil Rights Movement. I don't have the words to describe the hate that filled that period, but it was also fueled by hope.

And Watergate...

And Carter... I love the guy, but he was not loved as a president. Lots of people were furious that he pardoned Vietnam draft dodgers. Kinda reminiscent of those today who don't want to repeal DADT?

I'm skipping the Reagan years on purpose...

On to the 1994 midterm elections and Newt's Contract on America (oops, Contract with America). Same ol' Republican hate. And Tom Delay as House Majority Leader for a couple of years around 2003 -- DeLay is the poster boy for partisan hatred. He cultivated it.

I'll stop there. I've deleted the Bush years from my memory.

The one thing that IS WORSE NOW is the media. Fuck all cable news and give me back Walter.

IN CONCLUSION: You may be spending too much time on DU. Turn off the computer, go get involved with real people in your community. There is happiness out there. Get it while you can!

[Posteritatis]

43. Ugh. Of course it's been this bad, and worse. (nt)

[quaker bill]

44. This new crop

is pretty bad, but they are not as powerful as they think they are, and we have a senate and president that will provide some balance on many issues. The next two years will be messy and pretty colorful.

While the anti-communist mania of the McCarthy era probably tops this, for the most part even during that period, government was able to function. I am not yet clear that this one will maintain a sufficient sense of decorum to get vital business done. I think the verdict is still out. Give it six months, then we can compare it to historic standards.

[seabeyond]

47. this is what happens when we as a society, never draw a line on decency, integrity

honesty.

when we justify and validate all behavior for our own means.

[Joanne98]

49. I think the worse was 2002. We had nothing then.

[affrayer]

50. My Advice?

And, I got mad when I saw what the Republicans did because they were idiots.

Get used to being mad because this is no longer a democracy, it's become a dumbocracy...

BTW: Two things you should keep an eye on. The first is that after giving the wealthy an 800 billion dollar tax cut the republicans are getting ready to cut spending. What spending? Well anything that helps the poor and middle class is on the chopping block and the wealthy are untouchable. The second thing is that while the republicans promised to cut 100 billion dollars in waste, seems like they can't even find 30 billion of anything to cut. The bottom line, I knew this was going to happen but enough people in America were dumb enough to believe the lying rat bastard republicans to have voted for them...