Dad Can't Watch As Court Plays His Video of Son's Uzi Tragedy

[RamboLiberal]

A Massachusetts doctor closed his eyes today when a court played a video that he filmed of his 8-year-old son shooting a powerful Uzi submachine gun that recoiled and shot the boy in the head, killing him.

The mother of 8-year-old Christopher Bizilj left the room in tears.

The 2008 tragedy occurred in Massachusetts when Christopher was handed a 9mm Micro Uzi submachine gun to fire during a gun expo he attended with his family. Former Pelham police chief Edward Fleury, who organized the event, is on trial for involuntary manslaughter. He has pleaded not guilty.

The nightmarish scene had been videotaped by the boy's father, Dr. Charles Bizilj, of Ashford, Conn., who was on the stand when the video was played. He closed his eyes as the video as shown.

People in the courtroom gasped as the shots rang out, clearly showing the moment when the boy starts to fire, but is unable to handle the gun's strong recoil. The automatic weapon keeps firing as the gun barrel rears up and shoots Christopher in the right side of the head.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/jurors-uzi-trial-brace-graphic-replay/story?id=12556398

Massive fail in this case all around IMHO including the father allowing a kid that young to fire that small submachine pistol. I don't know if it was criminal but more than the chief and the guys who supplied the guns are responsible.

I have info on the trial so far posted in the Guns forum - been following this case since it happened. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x353082

[LostInAnomie]

1. Hooray for gun culture.

:puke:

[malaise]

2. + 1,000

Bet he'd do it differently...if only. Who the fugg gives an eight year old an Uzi submachine gun to shoot. WTF was he thinking???

[KG]

5. +infinty

[Chorophyll]

24. + even more infinity.

[appal_jack]

32. No, Boo for a massive safety Fail

Much as you and other anti's in this thread would like to make this about guns, this senseless death of a child is due to negligence and stupidity of adults at an event. Handing an uzi to an 8 year old boy is no different than inviting him to climb into a running Nascar vehicle and take off on his own down the track: Too much power + Too little training and physical strength = Fail.

Real "gun culture," as you like to phrase it, would have started the boy with an air rifle or single-shot .22. And long before any such weapon was placed into the child's hands, the rules of safe handling would have been taught, and quizzed, and repeated. Once the boy had demonstrated safe handling of one such weapon, he could be quizzed on the rules of safety again and then invited to try a pistol or repeating rifle.

The father and range master are at fault for handing the full-auto uzi to the boy, but handing him the keys to an antique tricycle tractor at a farm heritage event could have been every bit as tragic. The problem is not "gun culture," but rather "stupidity culture."

-app

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

33. See #31.

[Bonobo]

35. Bullshit.

The boy wore his "special camo pants and special camo shoes".

THAT is American "gun culture" too.

It glorifies guns and it is idiotic and part of the reason he is dead.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. Camo pants and shoes? Then my post #31 is much more than plausible speculation.

[Bonobo]

37. Sadly I don't think it was that for most people.

Although I moved away last year, I lived the last decade in Northampton, just neighboring the area of the shooting.

I saw the flyers for the "pumpkin shoot". It was classic Western mass gun culture style entertainment for most.

Shoot pumpkins, shoot cartoons of people in turbans, etc. Really healthy stuff.

"Blowed 'em up real good" type of entertainment.

I took a couple of gun shooting courses myself and my instructor and sensei knew this doofus, Ed FLeury the Pelham Police Chief. He was such a loser that he mistakenly discharged a handgun in the middle of a gun instruction class in a public building, firing it into and through a wall.

This wasn't political so much as it was gun lover's version of a game center.

[appal_jack]

39. So let's blame the cars and tractors for childrens' deaths too

According to OSHA, an average of 113 youth die in farm accidents per year:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/agriculturaloperations/index.html

So naturally, I'm sure you have plenty of posts in your journal where you attack this phenomenon and wring your hands over "Farm Culture." And I'm sure that you're against John Deere ball caps and belt buckles for children, right?

:sarcasm:

But of course those numbers pale in comparison to auto injuries and fatalities. According to the CDC, "In the United States during 2005, 1,335 children ages 14 years and younger died as occupants in motor vehicle crashes, and approximately 184,000 were injured. That’s an average of 4 deaths and 504 injuries each day." (http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/factsheets/childpas.htm)

Should we get bent out of shape if kids wear NASCAR gear or have a Chevy logo on their lunchbox? No, that would be stupid. We should do what the CDC recommends: use proper child safety seats, wear seatbelts, drive defensively, etc.

Your snobbish dismissal of camo clothes, and children possibly learning about the proper use of tools (whether tractors, cars, firearms, carpentry powertools, etc.) is the real bullshit here. This sort of pointless hand-wringing gives democrats a bad name. We could be united in promoting safety, but instead you choose to vent your anger against an inanimate object (guns) and ALL of the people who use them. You should be attacking only the stupid and careless people. What gives?

Please have some respect for people with different interests than your own, ok?

-app

(Minor corrections on-edit.)

[Bonobo]

40. The difference is that guns were designed to kill humans, tractors were not.

Guns are very good tools for killing.

They are not entertainment.

I do not dismiss guns, I dismiss their worship.

I dismiss raising your children to worship the culture of killing.

[appal_jack]

42. Guns were designed to direct a projectile downrange

Guns were designed to direct a projectile downrange. What they are aimed at is the user's responsibility. The target could be a piece of paper, a jug of water, or potential food (my region is grossly overpopulated with deer, so many gun-owners actually do much good with their rifles here).

I own firearms, farm equipment, chainsaws, automobiles, and all sorts of other tools that could be dangerous if misused. Dead from a chainsaw is no better than dead from a gun. I hope to avoid either (and even more importantly, protect those I love from any such mishaps).

:hi:

-app

[Bonobo]

46. That is a disingenuous statement.

Guns were designed to make a hole in the body of an animal so that its blood and life would leak out.

THAT is the truth.

Your statement is an obfuscation at best.

[appal_jack]

52. Well, we're getting closer to agreement here.

Well, we're getting closer to agreement here, though your accusations of disingenuousness are still almost as arrogant as your earlier comments ("Bullshit," plus ragging on people for wearing camo...)

I said, "Guns were designed to direct a projectile downrange. What they are aimed at is the user's responsibility. The target could be a piece of paper, a jug of water, or potential food (my region is grossly overpopulated with deer, so many gun-owners actually do much good with their rifles here)."

And you said, "Guns were designed to make a hole in the body of an animal so that its blood and life would leak out," which is essentially the same as my third example of a potential target.

But, you must admit that more guns in the US are used for (paper & water jug) target shooting than for hunting.

More importantly, you have failed to address my important point that what guns are aimed at is the user's responsibility. Whether I am shooting at paper for fun or at a deer for food, it is my responsibility that I do not send that bullet anywhere near a human being. Rules of gun safety (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety) are more important than how guns came into being throughout human history.

I am sure that in the history of the uzi, it has been used to defend well-intentioned Israelis against malicious attackers, and it has also at times been used to oppress some entirely innocent Palestinians. In the case of the OP, an uzi was improperly given to an untrained and inadequately supervised boy by grossly negligent adults.

I will concede that the origins of firearms are in hunting and war, but that is certainly not all they are good for. And their use as a defensive tool against people or animals who might otherwise do one harm is certainly nothing to be ashamed of. Similarly, you should concede that at least since 1974 (the year The Texas Chainsaw Massacre hit the theaters) chainsaws could be considered truly horrible weapons. But they are pretty essential for getting another necessity: wood for heat &/or building materials.

In the case of guns, chain saws, brush hogs, and all other powerful tools, safety first is the best motto. Nothing disingenuous about that.

-app

[X_Digger]

57. Please chime in here..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x292384

I'd love to hear your explanation.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

54. Call me where proud pro-car people put 8yos at the wheel of a truck as a "take that"

against the evil pro-DMV ant-freedom people.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

55. ^^^^ ...WHEN proud pro-car people...

[Marr]

62. I'm a gun owner myself, but I have to disagree.

I do think this is one of those examples of "gun culture". It seems like pure machismo and gun worship.

I've noticed a lot of people who defend gun ownership by describing guns as "just tools" seem to invest as much meaning into those "tools" as critics do. There's no other reason a person would allow an eight year old to fire an Uzi. It's like letting him work a band saw.

[Scruffy1]

68. I agree

These people are criminals. I've owned guns all of my life and they are a tool for killing pure and simple. This gun culture nuts are dangerous whackos with a gun fetish.

[COLGATE4]

3. You'd think that someone as educated as a doctor would know

better than to give an 8-year old an automatic weapon and encourage him to fire it.:banghead:

[NNN0LHI]

15. I have always rated someone with common sense way above someone with an education

I see examples of well educated people who lack the common sense to go indoors when its raining all the time.

An education can be purchased. Common sense can't be.

Don

[pnwmom]

27. Doctors don't learn about operating automatic guns in medical school

although they do see the after-effects, and you'd think that would make them more cautious.

[NuclearDem]

4. Speechless

Literally, speechless.

[hlthe2b]

6. I wish I knew what to say, but am still too aghast at Father...

a doctor, for God's sakes-- for letting his child handle an UZI. Not to mention the event organizers... I just don't understand that depth of gun "worship" and I never will.

[snagglepuss]

12. +1

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. $100 says it was intended as a "take that" against the "evil gun grabbers".

"HA! Another patriot in the making, you liberal pansies!"

Let that be a cautionary tale to gun worshippers who like to display their supposed badassery in this fashion.

[whatchamacallit]

7. Bottomless pit of sorrow...

unbelievably tragic.

[Spirochete]

8. Do the Darwin awards

include people who assure they will not have grandchildren, too? if so, I nominate this moran.

[tabasco]

9. That kind of recklessness should be murder.

Depraved indifference to human life.

[stray cat]

18. It is like driving under the influence, when tired, when preoccupied or distracted

Whether you kill anyone or not it's depraved indifference isn't it?

[tabasco]

65. More like letting a drunk 8-year old drive.

At 100 mph.

[JanMichael]

10. I was taught as a 10 year old how to handle and load and fire small calibre rifles.

However I was never allowed as a child to fire them without close supervision. When learning it was close physical instruction, I mean right behind and watching every movement.

I went to a gun safety camp at 12 or so where older guns like WWI Mauser's and handguns like 357 mags, 12 gauges, 10 gauges, were all available for...FIRST...a training on how they work - a run through of safety switches and kick back risks - then a controlled (an adult making sure you were safe) firing at paper targets.

None or my parental units would have EVER allowed me to fire a fully automatic handgun without immediate supervision - not at the age of 8 or 12 it just wouldn't have happened.

The parents, and likely the organizers, were absolutely negligent in the 8 year olds death.

[pacalo]

28. He had supervision; unfortunately, he had his hands on his camera instead of helping his son steady

the weapon he stupidly encouraged his too-young son to shoot.

[Parche]

11. and people wonder

why guns, especially uzi's should not be around
the NRA is a bunch of terrorists...

[snagglepuss]

13. Exactly. nt

[mudplanet]

14. Not sure of the point of the trial. He'll have to relive this for the rest of his life.

I hope his wife is the forgiving sort.

[NNN0LHI]

17. Usually this kind of thing is done to discourage others from attempting similar stupid stunts

I hope it has that effect.

Don

[Justitia]

20. it's the event organizer on trial, not the dad. -eom

[pacalo]

29. As a mother who doesn't get the fascination of guns, I'd have a problem

with living with the idiot whose poor infantile judgment cost my trusting son his life. I wonder, too, if she'll be more understanding than I.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

34. See #31.

[stray cat]

16. The family has suffered more than any condemnation from the rest of us will ever mean

[Still a Democrat]

19. Child endangerment

Charge him.

[pnwmom]

21. Okay, I am a gun-dunce, I know, but could someone please explain

how this works? I thought bullets came out of the front end of a gun. And I thought recoil would mean a gun might jerk backward. So I could see how the gun itself might hit him, but how did the bullets hit him? Did the gun suddenly do a 180 as he held it?

[pokerfan]

22. muzzle flip

If the barrel was directly in line with the center of mass of the weapon, there would be only recoil. But typically the barrel is elevated somewhat above the body of the weapon resulting in a torque which tends to impart a rotation vector causing the muzzle to rise or flip.

[pnwmom]

25. Aha! Got it! Thanks! n/t

[mudplanet]

23. Almost all firearms kick back AND up when fired. An uzi is a very light,

short machine gun, really a "machine pistol" and there's very little weight in front because on most models of uzis there isn't much more than four inches of barrel.

So when you fire it, it kicks up and back a little, and because it's on automatic firing about ten rounds a second, each subsequent round causes the gun to kick up and back just a little more, describing an arc of fire from perpendicular in front of the child, up to vertical and then over, at which point the child's head came into the line of fire.

I doubt it took more than a second to happen. He pulled the trigger, there was the sound of a dozen rapid shots (ten rounds a second is so fast that it doesn't really sound like gunshots but more like a giant ripppppppppping sound) and the child was on the ground dead. They probably thought it had just knocked him down until they saw the blood.

Gun people sometimes get a kick out of watching the uninitiated shoot a powerful weapon and seeing the surprise on the shooter's face.

[pnwmom]

26. What a nightmare. Thanks for the education. n/t

[Bonobo]

38. Yup and that is well-known to people with gun experience.

The fact that an uzi or a micro-uzi will spin on its axis like that is something that is relatively well-known and should have been predicted.

Oh, and it might actually be 20 rounds per second.

[NutmegYankee]

43. 10 rounds.

The firing rate for 9mm ammo is 600 rounds a minute.

[Bonobo]

47. The article said 1200/minute.

Perhaps they are wrong.

[jmowreader]

48. The article's wrong too

According to http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/uzi/Uzi-Micro.html the Micro Uzi fires 1700 rounds per minute. This is why: it's got lighter parts and a shorter bolt throw, so it takes less time to cycle the action on the Micro Uzi than on the Mini Uzi or Uzi.

[Bonobo]

50. I thought it was a micro uzi that the kid used. nt

[jmowreader]

51. It was

1700 rounds per minute--somewhere around 28 rounds per second. The magazine holds either 25 or 32 rounds, so basically you're looking at one clip per second.

I wonder why they even brought that gun. It wouldn't have the satisfying "machine gun" sound civilians crave--more of a loud "rip." (If you look at Hollywood movies that have Gatling guns like vulcans and miniguns in them, they turn down the cyclic rate a LOT because Gatling guns don't sound right on screen.)

[NutmegYankee]

64. I didn't realize it was a micro-uzi.

I'm thinking of a larger model.

[pnwmom]

53. They should put it on a Law and Order. Educate the rest of us! n/t

[bluestate10]

44. If a gun is not held firmly, recoil will cause the muzzle to turn in

the direction of least resistance. The young boy did not have the strength to prevent the barrel from flipping backward, sending a round into his head. The death would not have happened with a single shot gun, automatics continue to fire even as trigger pressure is lessened, until trigger pressure is light enough to stop firing.

[WinkyDink]

30. You know, I have a problem with a citizen's required civic jury duty also requiring him to

WATCH A CHILD DIE.

The tape could have stopped with the recoil, given that is the crux of the case. The boy's death is not in dispute.

[petronius]

41. It does seem unnecessary - and the headline is kind of a no-brainer,

I'd be more surprised if the guy could watch it.

But you're right - everything that could matter in the trial happened before the boy pulled the trigger...

[Xithras]

58. Jury duty exposes people to all sorts of horrors

My sister was a juror on a pedophilia case in which they were required to watch three videotapes of a father performing full penetrative rapes of his 10 year old daughter. The sicko recorded the videos...WITH CLOSEUPS...for posterity. She also had to listen to testimony from the guys wife and friends talking about how he was such a friendly and upstanding guy, and how they were all clueless as to what was happening.

She ended up needing counseling, because the case made her paranoid about her 8 year old daughter being around ANY male...including her husband, and even my father and myself. The counselor ended up diagnosing her with a form of PTSD.

Doing your "civic duty" can suck sometimes.

[RamboLiberal]

63. Looks like it took its toll already on 1 juror

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (AP) - A juror has been dismissed for undisclosed reasons in the manslaughter trial of a former police chief charged in the death of an 8-year-old boy who shot himself with an Uzi submachine gun at a 2008 Massachusetts gun fair.

The woman cried during a private discussion with the judge and lawyers Friday in Hampden Superior Court before being dismissed. Fifteen jurors remain, including 12 who will deliberate and three alternates. Testimony will resume Monday.

http://www.wggb.com/Global/story.asp?S=13804147

[AlabamaLibrul]

45. To paraphrase a... phrase: if you can't watch the video, don't be the dumbass parent

end of transmission

[RedCloud]

49. Silly doctor. Guns don't kill people. Death kills people.

[Doctor_J]

56. Seems to me that Dad is more culpable than Chief

:shrug:

These 2nd Amendment Exhibitions are very, very bizarre.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

60. It's exactly as rational as a peacock showing off its tail.

RAH RAH RAH! ME STRONG! ME USE GUN! ME LIKE GUN! ME ALPHA MALE! ME SO ALPHA EVEN MY SMALL KIDS CAN SHOOT! LOOK! RAH RAH RAH!

[RamboLiberal]

61. Day 4: Teen gun supervisor says he warned victim's father about Uzi

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (AP) - A teenager who supervised an 8-year-old boy who shot himself with an Uzi submachine gun at a 2008 gun fair says he told the boy's father that "it wasn't a good idea" to let the boy fire it.

Michael Spano testified Friday in the trial of Edward Fleury, whose company co-sponsored the Massachusetts club exhibition. Fleury has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter and other charges in the death of Christopher Bizilj (buh-SEEL') of Ashford, Conn.

Spano said he offered the micro Uzi because Dr. Charles Bizilj wanted his sons to shoot an automatic weapon, and a regular Uzi the father had picked out was failing to fire in automatic mode. Spano said he told Bizilj the smaller gun "shoots fast and kicks hard."

Spano said under cross-examination from Fleury's lawyer that he trusted the father to make the decision.

http://www.wggb.com/Global/story.asp?S=13802463

Day 4 news blog of trial: http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/01/trial_of_edward_fleury_for_uzi_1.html

IMHO the doofus dad should be on trial with the Chief.

[aikoaiko]

66. Guns are not toys and the event organizers are responsibile for safe handling.

period. If the event staff knew it was to be handed to the boy, they needed to ensure it was used properly.


This tragic death is not so different from when a child rolls his ATV or drowns in the ocean. They are some fun activities that are dangerous if not done with correct supervision and might not be appropriate for many children.

[Lucian]

67. Stupid parents deseve to be sent to prison.

Not the organizer. Allowing an eight year old to fire an Uzi is both idiotic and irresponsible.

Idiots.