Grammar nazis: O'Really just said Obama used the wrong grammar in his NBC interview

[apples and oranges]

President Obama said in his NBC interview,"If it was me, I would resign." And O'Really corrected him saying it should be, "If it were me." Which one is right? I think it could go either way, couldn't it?

[WinkyDink]

1. "Were."

[wtmusic]

4. "It were me?"

:crazy:

[DevonRex]

6. It's the if part that dictates were.

[wtmusic]

8. Hmm. I always thought the pronoun determined the conjugation.

I were wrong!

[DevonRex]

14. Yes you was! :) nt

[wtmusic]

19. Check this out. "If I was...." is ok in some circumstances.

"So when you are deciding between if I was and if I were, think of the song from Fiddler on the Roof, and if you are supposing the impossible or something you know is untrue, use if I were like the song. Otherwise use if I was."

http://iconlogic.blogs.com/weblog/2007/12/grammar-works-2.html

(both you and O'Reilly are still correct)

[apples and oranges]

30. Interesting. I hope there's no sinister meaning behind his words

from your link:

"If I was home when you called yesterday, I did not hear the phone."

This statement is not impossible or known to be untrue. Instead, it might well have been true--I might have been home when you called.

--------------

Uhhh So if Pres. Obama intentionally used "was" knowing the correct usage, it could mean Obama has sexted before?

[reACTIONary]

25. "Were" is the subjenctive mood...

"If" calls for the subjunctive mood. "Were" expresses the speculative nature of the statement, "was" would be used to express an actual fact.

[NYC Liberal]

41. Technically, "were" is used with hypotheticals or false statements --

like Obama's. "If he were Weiner." (He's not.)

"Was" is used with something that's unknown or uncertain. "If that ring was real gold, we shouldn't have just given it away." (It may or not have been real gold; we don't know.)

[no_hypocrisy]

27. Correct.

"Were" is the subjective verb tense which is always used in conjunction with "would", the conditional verb tense.

I finally got the grammar stuff down once I took German for four years . . . .

[craigmatic]

64. I see what you did there at the end.

[DevonRex]

2. No. If i were is correct although not used as often when speaking

as it is in writing.

[City Lights]

3. I never watch Billo, but he should have made this a nightly segment when Junior

was in office. I'm guessing this is a first for him though.

[apples and oranges]

17. I only turn to Fox Noise after major events, like their first debate

Just to see what they're thinking!

[MrModerate]

5. To quote Winston Churchill, when accused of a grammatical error in a speech . . .

"This is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put."

[AsahinaKimi]

7. This is all he has to complain about?

The President could run rings around O'Reilly in JEOPARDY!

[KingFlorez]

9. O'Reilly needs to hold hands with everyone else at Fox News and jump

Let all of us have some peace for the idiocy.

[LooseWilly]

10. "were" ... it's one of the few remaining vestiges of the English subjunctive...

[Sanity Claws]

11. O'Reilly is wrong

"If it were I..." is correct but awkward and non-colloquial.

[A HERETIC I AM]

15. I'm fairly sure O'Reilly is the LAST person correcting anyone's grammar.

This is a guy who has repeatedly said things like "I'm down wit' Jesus, OK?"

He's a nitwit.

Editing because I am not sure MY grammar is correct, but hey...I don't have a network TV show.

[Obamanaut]

26. I think it was 'were' vs 'was' rather than 'I' vs 'me' - that's the way I read

the OP.

[Sanity Claws]

31. Yes that's what the OP was focused on

but it is still true that there are actually two mistakes to correct. The self-appointed grammarian didn't know enough grammar to find both of them.

[karynnj]

12. "were", but many people do say "was"

This may be a case, like using "whom" where the proper grammar sounds elitist. Though even the Oscar Meyer commercial got it correct - http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDoQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lyricstime.com%2Foscar-brand-oscar-mayer-weiner-lyrics.html&rct=j&q=if%20i%20was%20an%20oscar%20meyer%20weiner%20lyrics&ei=xQX4TfO8DNKt0AHbsaSmCw&usg=AFQjCNG9SyPlE9kGgz4iSjYTSxsxY7UBpA&cad=rja

[Tennessee Gal]

13. Bill'O!! Misunderestimated? Remember?

10) "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." —LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000

9) "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family." —Greater Nashua, N.H., Jan. 27, 2000

8) "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." —second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

7) "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully." —Saginaw, Mich., Sept. 29, 2000

6) "You work three jobs? … Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." —to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

5) "Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country." —Poplar Bluff, Mo., Sept. 6, 2004

4) "They misunderestimated me." —Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

3) "Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" —Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

2) "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

1) "There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

[On the Road]

34. Ha, Ha -- Yes!

Did O'Reilly EVER pick apart Bush's grammar like that?

[Glimmer of Hope]

35. I almost forgot...what an embarrassment he was.

[wellst0nev0ter]

58. Hell, They Made DESK CALENDARS Of Chimpy's Bushisms

And BillO's still never found the time to criticize Bush's weak grasp of the English language. But he does for Obama. That shows he's obviously... partisan.

[mzmolly]

16. I have one word for O'Reilly.

Falafel.

[frogmarch]

18. If it were I

is technically correct, but it's okay to say "If it were me."

"If it was me" is considered incorrect, but it's in common usage, and I think it's fine to use it in informal conversations.

[wtmusic]

24. Of course. Bill-0 pointed out all of W's terrible grammar, so he's entitled.

Of course.

[Gabi Hayes]

Me think so, too.

[ClarkUSA]

20. Hmm. Did he ever do this when Dumbya was mangling the English language on a daily basis for 8 years?

[divine_truine]

21. o'reilly is a gashole & a CONEHEAD!

i watch his show & it still sucks! hannity included! hannity: another douchebag!

[spanone]

22. who cares

[gkhouston]

23. "were" is correct but I usually only see it in written text. "was",

although incorrect, is commonly used when speaking.

[TheCowsCameHome]

28. Just resign, Bill. We'll work out the details later.

Asshat.

[Obamanaut]

29. On the plus side, he didn't add "just sayin'" at the end. nt

[bbinacan]

32. "If it were me"

is correct.

[On the Road]

33. O'Reilly is Correct

"Were" is subjunctive, which is used with a conditional or counterfactual statement. It's a relic of earlier times when language was more complex.

The Four Tops' "If I Were a Carpenter" is correct. Paul Simon's "If I was the president" (from "Loves Me Like a Rock") is incorrect.

Having said that, the subjunctive is widely ignored in conversational English. I think it might be gone in another fifty years.

As president, Obama should probably use the subjunctive where it's appropriate. O'Reilly is being picky for partisan reasons. No big deal either way.

[markpkessinger]

36. "Were" is correct: condition contrary to fact n/t

[DavidDvorkin]

37. Strictly speaking, it should be "If it were I"

But few people speak that way. The rules for conversational English have always been laxer. "If it was me" is so common that it's become acceptable.

[Odin2005]

51. Why? "me" is the object, and so using the Accusative form is correct

English isn't Latin, Latin used the Nominative case (X ego est) is X-is-Y statements, but English uses the Accusative. I hate it when Grammar Nazis try to impose Latin's grammar rules on English, it's just dumb.

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. No, strictly, the 2 nouns or pronouns should agree in case

because 'to be' is equating them. But it can often sound so precise and pedantic that it's more natural to use 'me' etc. instead.

Fowler says: "me is technically wrong in It wasn't me etc.;
but the phrase being of its very nature colloquial, such a lapse is
of no importance".

The rule for what he and others consider technically right is
*not* (as is commonly misstated) that the nominative should *always*
be used after "to be". Rather, it is that "to be" should link two
noun phrases of the same case, whether this be nominative or
accusative:

I believe that he is I. Who do you believe that he is?
I believe him to be me. Whom do you believe him to be?

According to the traditional grammar being used here, "to be" is not
a transitive verb, but a *copulative* verb. When you say that A is
B, you don't imply that A, by being B, is doing something to B.
(After all, B is also doing it to A.) Other verbs considered
copulative are "to become", "to remain", "to seem", and "to look".
...
http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxitsmev.html

('Fowler' being H.W. Fowler, author of "The King's English" and "A Dictionary of Modern English Usage", and generally held to be the most comprehensive authority on English usage)

[DavidDvorkin]

60. No, it is not the object

It's the predicate nominative, which we certainly do use in English.

[Odin2005]

63. yeah, I think I was as getting mixed up with something else.

[SidDithers]

38. Mitchell and Webb Grammar Nazis...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3y0CD2CoCs

:rofl:

Sid

[NYC Liberal]

39. The verb in a counterfactual conditional statement takes the past subjunctive form.

"Me" is a subjective complement, so it should be "I": "If it were I."

Both are incorrect.

[yellowcanine]

40. Hate to say it but O'Reilly is correct on this one. Conditional tense. If I were, I wish I were..

It is a mistake often made. Often does go either way but still not correct.

[izquierdista]

42. Both are correct

The people preferring 'were' see the grammatical glass as subjunctively half-full. The people preferring 'was' see the same glass as objectively half-empty.


Now go mix up your own metaphors.

[global1]

43. Oh Come On Now Is There Anything That They Won't Attack Obama On?.......nt

[Maru Kitteh]

44. were

[rurallib]

45. Hope O'Loofah runs a few tapes of W and corrects them

each tape easily a whole show.

[Swede]

46. It are?

:shrug:

[Ikonoklast]

47. If I were, was, will be, will have been BillO

I would take a long walk off a short pier until my hat floats.

[REP]

48. Subjunctive uses 'were.' O'Reilly schooled by Marianists; may have actually learned grammar

Using 'was' in the subjunctive case is acceptable only to those who do not speak English properly and don't care who knows it. I'm sure Obama merely made a mistake.

[Mink2]

49. Obama and OReilly were both wrong.

Linking verbs ( is,was, were, are, etc.) are always followed by subjective pronouns ( I,she,he, etc.). Not objective pronouns like me or him.

If it were I, is what Pres. Obama should have said, but it is no big deal.

Was or were, depends on the mood.

[Odin2005]

53. That rule was invented by nitwits in the 1700s who thought English should use Latin's grammar rules.

It was never a part of English as it is spoken, ever. It was completely made up, it's a grammatical quirk (using the Nominative form in the compliment of a linking verb) of early Indo-European languages like Latin.


Using it in speech makes one sound like a pretensious twit.

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. No, this usage was in Old English too:

Complement.

The complement (the word on the other side of a copula or "linking verb," usually "to be") is always in the nominative. In this sentence:

Sēo sunne is swīðe brād
(The sun is very broad)

both sunne (the subject) and brād (the complement) are in the nominative case.

http://www.wmich.edu/medieval/resources/IOE/case.html

[Odin2005]

50. Technically correct, but the Subjunctive has been dying for a long time now.

I still use it, but that's because I grew up in the sticks.

[QC]

52. They are both wrong. It should be, "If it were I...." n/t

[TheManInTheMac]

59. Winner!

[TheManInTheMac]

56. If it were me... If it was me... You can't explain that!

[HopeHoops]

57. This coming from a guy who always says "Democrat Party" instead of "Democratic Party"

I know, it is intentional - FOX-wide directive.

[Yavin4]

61. Here's The Correct Grammar That Obama Should Have Used

Bill O'Reilly can kiss my Presidential ass.

[geardaddy]

62. Win.