"Why the hell should I have to pay for a stranger's transplant?"

[jillan]

"They should raise the money themselves and not burden the rest of the taxpayers". "Not my problem".

These were words spoken by a right wing wacko yesterday. He brought up Obama's "death panels", since we live in Arizona, I brought up Brewer's real death panels, and how the second person died because of her budget cuts.

I tried to reason with this heartless bastard, but facts were meaningless to him. He has great health insurance.... why should he care about anyone else?

All he cared about was getting rid of Obamacare & was orgasmic that his Boner was going to kill Obamacare.

What kind of society are we becoming? :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[abluelady]

1. That is Who They Are

And the man whyo didn't want to pay for someone else's transplant will be right there with his hand out when he needs something. The hypocrisy is unbelieveable. I wish we could show these people for who they truly are.

[CBGLuthier]

2. Reason with them? Just call them a selfish pig and walk away.

You can not reason with people like that. Wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

[EstimatedProphet]

3. So he wants poor people to come down with disease and give it to his children.

Public health care was originally started in part because of things like typhus outbreaks. Remind him of that.

[tigereye]

64. +1

[hobbit709]

4. That's the repuke mantra in a nutshell

"I got mine and screw you"

One of the reasons that I don't believe in any gods because if there were any, this wouldn't happen.

[rurallib]

5. There is a very selfish reason for supporting universal HC

including transplants. You yourself may need such help one day. When you get in that position you hardly have time or health to be running fundraisers.
No one can predict what health problems they my incur, no matter how well they think they care for themselves or there parentage.
And certainly no one can predict and prepare for accidents. Insurance policies have a lifetime cap.

For instance, suppose you just kicked him in the nuts and he needed a testicular transplant. Try and do a fundraiser when you can't even walk.

[Kweli4Real]

56. Exactly, and this (IMHO) is the difference between ...

liberals and conservatives.

Since Liberals, generally, recognize that bad things happen to people, whether deservedly or not; they/we want -- and are willing to pay for -- a system of safety nets in place should the worst happen. Further, because Liberals tend to have a sense of the greater community and empathy, they/we do not begrudge those that are in need -- if for no other reason, they/we can contemplate that misfortune might befall them/us. So it really is a decision/ethic based in self-interest.

Whereas, conservatives have bought into the faux notion of the "self-made man" and the Calvinist concept of "just deserts." Their world-view cannot accept that even if you do "all the right things", bad things can and do happen to good people. As such, their state of denial, tells them that it violates their sense of self-interest to spend their hard-earned money on something that benefits others (ignoring that they themselves might require the same help that they would deny others).

I think that much of the teaparty angst is rooted in the cognitive dissonance caused by their realizing that their life's circumstance has not lived up to their "fear God, work hard, live prudently" recipe for success (read: getting rich). The mere acknowledgement of chance does violence to their entire world-view.

[raccoon]

6. This remark may return to haunt him, when he or his kids or other relatives are without insurance.

I hate dipshits who think like that.

[LeftinOH]

7. The Republican platform: "Sucks to be you!"

[BlueDemKev]

44. LOL....Funny!

[snagglepuss]

46. LOL. Good one.

:thumbsup:

[QC]

8. "Am I my brother's keeper?" n/t

[endless october]

9. healthcare only exists because society exists.

So the answer is that one must pay because one benefits from all of the things that society produces.

Or one can move to the arctic tundra, pay nothing, and receive nothing.

[jillan]

11. I told him to move to Somalia or some other third world country.

In one ear and out the other - of course, there is nothing in between.

[Bill McBlueState]

18. simpler than that

He can just cross over to the Mexican side of the desert. If he wants to see how he holds up in a libertarian free-for-all, there's one just a short drive away.

[SOS]

10. By that reasoning, abolish Medicare

We all pay 3% of our income into Medicare so that the elderly can get medical services.
Suggest that to the reactionary moron.
And remind him that when his Dad needs a triple bypass, he should organize a bake sale.

[doc03]

12. Hey this morning I heard a store owner with diabetes complaining

hasn't had health insurance for over a year and has to pay $1100 a month for drugs. He said he could only find one company that would take him and they wanted $22000 a year. Then with the next breath he is ranting about Obamacare and he has his TV tuned to Faux News.


:shrug:

[jillan]

15. I got into it with this guy about faux news and he told me that if Hannity reported on it,

it's not a lie. "Hannity would never lie."


These people are ignorant.

[doc03]

17. It is no use arguing with them or trying to reason with

them, they are brainwashed.

[eShirl]

13. the same selfish pricks who refused to share in kindergarten. n/t

[ehrnst]

14. His premiums do that. The only way to avoid paying for other's health care is to

pay out of pocket for your own, and not pool with other people to pay all your bills.

[jillan]

16. I tried to explain that, but reasoning and facts got in the way.

[snagglepuss]

48. That's an excellent point. nt

[walldude]

19. "Orgasmic that his Boner was going to kill Obamacare."

And how exactly is Boner going to do that? The Republicans cannot kill HCR. They don't have the Senate or the veto pen. The only way they can kill shit is with the help of the Democrats.

[jillan]

22. I tried to explain that as well. Even reminded him that Rethugs only control 1 of the 3 legislative

branches... But then he told me that Rethugs are not going to fund Obamacare and that's how they will kill it.

An answer for everything... that's what rethugs are good at. No plans, no compassion - but an answer for everything.

[blueamy66]

20. We have become a sick society.

When that right wing whacko has a relative who needs a tranplant and cannot afford it, he will change his tune.

I live in AZ and know a lady who desperately needs a lung transplant...she coaches at my HS alma mater.

Fuck Jan Brewer and anyone else that doens't think health care is a right.

As I've said before, as a taxpayer, who pays for Brewer's health insurance, I should get to decide what procedures that bitch gets or doesn't get.

[DBoon]

21. there is an endemic personality disorder in this country

many people now seem to lack even the most basic empathy required for human society

If it is not reversed, we will implode as a society

[jillan]

25. I agree 100%. nt

[Brewman_Jax]

23. Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society

even the Romans knew that, so this isn't late breaking news.

Fact are meaningless to these idiots, which is why repubs keep getting elected.

The repub mantra is "Government is evil and will not help you, elect us and we'll prove it!"

[sarge43]

37. Neanderthals cared for the old, ill and injured.

These creatures aren't as civilized and I insult Neanderthals by the comparison.

[WhiteTara]

24. I talked with one of those the other day

and called him a racist to his face. He did not blink, look away or deny. They are scum and as such, are not worthy of the title human.

[w8liftinglady]

26. Here is what "Xtians" SHOULD be reading

(hypocrites that they are)

Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. 1 Peter 3:8

“Sell all the things you have and distribute to poor people, and you will have treasure in the heavens; and come be my follower.” - Luke 18-22

and finally (Actually the "right" and the "left" are literal-not political...it's the exact opposite)

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
matthew 25:36-41


Then come back and justify their actions.

[progressoid]

28. I find that most conservatives are Old Testament Christians

Too much selfless peace, love, and understanding in the New Testament.

[w8liftinglady]

29. Jesus was truly a liberal at heart - tough for them to admit

[maxrandb]

33. Most Conservatives can be described

as "Christians who haven't read further than the Book of Leviticus in their Bible"

[Bluenorthwest]

42. I find that all political 'Christians' are apostate bigots and nothing

more, left or right. The President and his wife reject 99% of the teachings of St Paul, all of the teachings that apply to themselves, along with all of the pro slavery verses, while they pick up a couple of lines from Paul against gay people and they ride them like some psychotic horse. So apparently they believe Paul about gay people, and the rest they reject, fully.
So fun to claim it is 'the conservatives only' but it is the entire world of Christendom, nearly without reservation. They fail to fulfill their part, yet they demand that I take up some random verse and suffer under it to please Donnie McClurkin, or Michelles' mother or their own cold hearts or whatever it is.
But they sure do not live by the chapters they insist should be the basis for my lack of rights. Hypocrites of the first order, no less so than the 'conservatives'. Facts are in fact, facts.

[kctim]

35. Doesn't work

In fact, they use such things to justify their position of it being the individuals duty to take care of those in need, not the governments. And that the reason we are in such a position is because people have come to place such responsibility on government, rather than themselves.

No matter which side of an issue one is on, it's always best to leave religion out of it.

[Yupster]

38. Yes this thread just shows how the two sides misunderstand each other

The right wingers look back to a time when YMCA's were religious charities and poverty was handled by local churches.

If you say they don't care about the poor you misunderstand them and will make no headway.

Jesus did not organize marches on Caesaria to increase the bread dole. He didn't advocate increasing taxes to help the poor. He could have done these things as Rome was the highest social society of the day. Instead he told people to ignore the government. Do what you have to do, but the government has nothing to do with whether you get into heaven or not.

Instead he made it your responsibility to help the poor. You -- individually.

This is an example of an issue where each side completely talks past each other. They each go away thinking they really showed that guy and that other guy was stupid.

[w8liftinglady]

54. Um... my state-they have no intention of leaving it out

http://www.theocracywatch.org/texas_gop.htm

[malaise]

27. Boner can't kill a damned thing

Fuck all of them - the health care bill was passed legally. Did I say fuck them.

[ismnotwasm]

30. Asshole!

I'm a transplant nurse. I lost count of the number of RW asswipes that end up needing financial assistance, for whatever health reasons and still try to say stupid shit like that.

Transplants save lives, and help those afflicted become contributing members of society, is that good enough? Once you're liver or heart or lungs get bad enough, you are no longer able to work, you are incredibly sick. Your family is under horrible pressure and often lose work time to care for you. It's a destructive lose lose situation and the lack of transplantable organ donors makes the situation that much worse.

What these rw idiots are basically saying is let people die in the street. Then they can bring back an old industry-- death carts to pick up the dead and dying. Think then, they'd stop complaining about bogus 'death panels?

Back when dialysis first started, there really was a death panel. A short kind of decent article by Dailykos on it
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/23/771186/-History-for-Health-Care-Reformers:-Real-Death-Panels

But at the beginning there was strict criteria involving who did or did not get dialysis, including financial solvency and a certain moral standing. Thank God we can dialysis both the rich and the poor and the in between these days. End stage renal disease is the only condition fully covered by Medicare because of improvements in the dialysis machines, not to mention some lobbying. You could call it 'socialized' I suppose, but I haven't had a RWer yet turn down dialysis on principle.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

31. I've had this argument too many times, with too many idiots.......

NONE of them get that they might be in the position of needing help one of these days. Their thought process goes as far as their wallets, and then stops. Its a pretty sad commentary about where we've gotten to as a society.

[guitar man]

32. I have to wonder

How much money this right wing asshat has socked away in case he ever needs a transplant himself? Karma can be a real mf'er ;)

[ladjf]

34. There is a terrible psychiatric sickness taking over Americans,

causing them to lose the ability to care about anyone but themselves and perhaps some family. That is not a normal state of mind for any species. Someone, somehow has got to find a cure for this before it reaches the point of no return.

[Cleita]

36. Remember when the Pubs complained about

"pills for old people" and why they should have to pay for them? I guess their compassion has no bounds. :sarcasm:

[harun]

41. I remember when they use to call themselves "Compassionate" Conservatives.

They don't even bother using it anymore, they are proud of their callousness.

[Cirque du So-What]

39. Sociopath Nation

If the national psyche can be summed up in a single archetype, it's the sociopath. Altruism is portrayed as weak, while 'rugged individualism' is revered. Get yours & the hell with everyone else. It's the end stage of our 'civilization' AFAIC; it's like ancient Sparta, but without the discipline.

[snagglepuss]

49. "Pursuit of Loneliness : American Culture at the Breaking Point"

written in the 70's describes this very thing.


snip

SLATER CRITICIZES the indivious pushme-pullyou competitiveness of our economic system-and, as a result, the stifling individualism and aloofness each of us has felt. We are a nation of individuals, as Van Wyck Brooks observed, "cast inward upon our own insufficient selves." The uptightness is exacerbated by the disappearance of mitigating institutions, where we could take refuge from our terror- stricken aloneness. The extended family, the stable local neighborhood, where solace from this separateness and impersonality might have been found, are passing from the American scene.

Close relations, in a rigorously over- competitive society, are an anachronism. Technological change destroys these bonds in further ways, fracturing the relationships and community by which an individual once defined himself. Encounters with other individuals are abrasive and unsought.



http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1970/10/5/americathe-pursuit-of-loneliness-boston-beacon/






















http://www.librarything.com/work/46542

[Javaman]

40. I got into a tool regarding this same thing...

he was about 55ish and spouting on and on about the "death panels".

So I calmly said to him, "so, you're not going to die?"

"What?" he replied

I repeated myself and like all mouth breathers he stepped in it.

"Well of course, I'll die some day", he yammered.

"okay, do you have kids?", I asked again.

"Sure do, 3 of them", he puffed up proudly.

"well, then suppose you are, like my dad was, in a coma and unable to convey to your kids how you want to kick off? what will you do?", I asked blankly.

He saw it coming, but couldn't answer.

So I answered for him, "oh you love your kids so much that you want them to make the heart wrenching decision as to what to do with you. Nice". I shook my head.

He blathered, "I have a will!". I shot back, "thanks nice, but that only AFTER you are dead".

"So what are you going to do? Get smart and leave instructions or cause your kids heart ache and confusion?". Now I looked smug.(I couldn't help it).

he got a sour look on his face and walked away.

But as a parting shot, I said, "that's why it's called, end of life planning, not death panels".

They are easy to defeat individually, but in mass, they are like roving zombies of stupidity.

[BlueDemKev]

43. Trying to reason with a tea-bagger....

...is like trying to explain to Hitler that his dream of an all-Aryan society wouldn't produce the utopia he envisioned. These losers are die-hard, damn-the-facts right-wing hypocrites who complain about "big government", but always run to the gov't with their hands out whenever they need help.

They're complete idiots who have no clue how to govern (which is being proven as we speak). Can't wait until these idiot tea-baggers have a meltdown in a few months when the Weeper of the House proposes to raise the federal debt ceiling!

[BlueDemKev]

45. Oh, you had lunch with Sharron Angle?

...he's a "she", by the way. Actually, an "IT."

[alfredo]

47. Because some day you might be that "stranger."

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. A visiting zonie pulled that one at the local coffee shop

so I turned around and asked him. why should I pay for the fire department to put out YOUR fire? Why should I pay for your right to DRIVE on those roads? Why should I pay for your kid's school?

He just stood there mouth agape.

Then I quoted the Constitutions Preamble and told him, THAT IS WHY, and that is why we should also pay for that transplant!

As to what kind of society are we becoming? Truly a Libertarian paradise... utopia et al... I got mine, so FU you....

As a society I fear we need to hit bottom..

by the way hubby gave another zonie a hassle over papers please law... he was defending it, so my husband told him that he was calling INS since he looked Furien, from one of them European countries I tell you.

Comedy can be effective with the Neanderthals... and I am an equal opportunity comedian with my locals too.

[mmonk]

51. a sick one heading for another trainwreck.

[Sheepshank]

52. He needs to watch Scrooged....Bill Murray

Mankind is everyones business.

Continuing to be against helping his fellow human beings, has obviously caused his cold black heart to rot.

Remember, not every good turn, not every need, involves money, Assholes like that won't even get the time of day with that type of attitude. I think the term I've heard is "I wouldn't even piss on him if he were dying of thirst".

[BrotherLove]

53. Here is your response to such stupidity......

Why should I stop at a red light?

Why should I waste MY money burning gas I worked hard for waiting at a red light?

You just want to repress my freedom and liberty to get home after working hard for MY money.

Where in the constitution does it say I have to stop for a red light?

The Founding fathers never stopped at a red light, so why should I?

Just like a socialist, you want to waste MY tax dollars so government can take over intersections.

I want government out of the traffic signal business and let the Free Market decide who can get through an intersection.

Only socialists stop for red lights, red = communism, better dead than red, Hitler used red lights

[kiranon]

59. Like your argument. Will try it out on my in laws especially the part

that says "The Founding fathers never stopped at a red light, so why should I?"

[jillan]

60. Excellent! I have used the "get off the roads if you don't like taxes" argument in the past.

You take it alot further.

I wish I was so quick thinking:hi:

[csziggy]

55. SO how about the family who HAD health insurance but their daughter died

Because the insurance company denied her the liver transplant that would have saved her life - until it was too late.

That is the reality - even if you have excellent health insurance, as soon as you get sick and cannot work or the insurance company decides they don't want to pay out bill medical bills for those fat payments you have been making for years, you will have no coverage. Most people who need transplants have not been able to work for years as their conditions deteriorate and they wait for the organs they need. Chances are most of them had insurance that they thought would take care of their needs, then found out the truth - that insurance companies have the ultimate death panels in this country.

[Vinca]

57. People like the heartless guy with insurance are living in a fool's paradise.

Just about everyone is not that far from being on the outside looking in. It can happen to nearly all of us.

Edited to add a great bumper sticker I spotted today: Vote Republican - Help Us Make Money Off the Suffering of Other People.

[jillan]

61. "Vote Republican - Help Us Make Money Off the Suffering of Other People."

Perfect!

[Xicano]

58. Because in a *Civilized Society* that's what we do.

But notice how quick these reich-wing wackos are to stick their hand out for public assistance when some sort of crisis befalls upon them?

[HippieCowgirl]

62. The "Fuck you, I've got mine" society (NT)

[tigereye]

63. Boner isn't going to kill anything- maybe re-arrange it-

he doesn't have the votes. These folks seem to have forgotten all the folks who voted Obama in for changes in healthcare. Sigh.

[AmandaMae]

65. There is no reasoning with people like that.

They are lacking basic human emotions.

[eridani]

66. For the same reason that you should have to pay for the most expensive end of life care

--available. How else do you propose to avoid "death panels"?

[old mark]

67. Years ago, it used to be, "Now they want us to feed their kids" over welfare and

school lunches.

It is simple greed and evil sponsored by the republican party.


mark

[Raine]

68. Well why the hell should I have to subsidize a billionaire's

3rd, 4th or 5th house, boats and cars but as a tax payer I'm stuck! :grr: