Behind golden-voiced Ted Williams is ex-wife Patricia Kirtley, the story's real hero

[luvspeas]

Patricia Kirtley raised four daughters alone after Williams split 23 years ago and dove down the rabbit hole of drugs.
Not only that, Kirtley took in the baby boy the radioman had with another woman and raised him as her own.
Oh, and by the way, she's partially blind.



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/01/07/2011-01-07_behind_goldenvoiced_ted_williams_is_exwife_patricia_kirtley_the_real_hero_of_the.html

[hlthe2b]

1. She sounds like a wonderful person...

The sad truth is few who end up in Ted Williams' situation, have not left their share of victims and devastation in their wake. Ms. Kirtley should get her due. But does the OP suggest this means Mr. Williams is non-redeemable and deserves no second chance? Can those who hurt so many, including themselves, never change and thus be undeserving of any help? I'm just asking, because this seems to be a not uncommon sense among some DUers. :shrug:

[snooper2]

3. just read any Michael Vick thread

a lot of DU'ers are perfect little denizens who have never done anything wrong..

Never cussed at anybody..

Never did any drugs..

Never were in the clink..

Never cheated on someone..

Never beat their spouse..

Never committed assault..

Never kicked a pet..

Never sexually abused a child..

Never initiated a fight..

Never stereotyped anyone or showed any racism..




Until they post some identification and we can run some checks :)

[Kalyke]

6. What Michael Vick did is a far cry worse

than most of the things on your little "perfect" list.

One doesn't have to be perfect to shun a dog killer/abuser/collector/torturer.

In other words, you're comparing apples and oranges: or cussing and torture. :eyes:

[snooper2]

12. There, I updated the list..

that should be better

[Kalyke]

60. What did you update?

The racist meme?

:rofl:

So, basically, you're saying the only people who fight dogs are black, right? And that I only care because they're black, right?

:rofl:

I hate ANYONE who tortures innocents, including the WHITE man who fucked the dog I currently own and have to calm down when my husband's testosterone gets excited for normal reasons related to me. In other words, I hate sick bastards of any race, creed, religion or culture.

My disdain has to do with recidivism. And the two top repeat offenders are child molesters and animal abusers.

[hlthe2b]

13. I doubt you will find DUers who have done the unspeakable

cruelty to animals for money and sick entertainment that Vick did. Fortunately, I doubt you would be able to find that many Americans who have done this, unless you hang around with a very sick crowd. So, your post is totally irrelevant to the discussion--particularly since Vick is getting his infinite chances and opportunities in spades. To compare him to someone who has been living on the street with little hope, is just, well, quite revealing.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bahrbearian]

16. Michael Vick is a sociopath.

[snooper2]

19. so you agree with Tucker Carlson?

he should have been executed

[Maru Kitteh]

37. I'll take logical fallacies for $500 Alex!

Hasty generalization, guilt by association AND a red herring. Nice work.

[hlthe2b]

46. heh heh... +++++++

And Alex, I'll take "belittlement as cure" for $1000-- for those who continue to pull these tiresome tactics, and in hopes they will finally wake up to the fact it no longer works(especially with respect to the whole Michael Vick issue).

[roguevalley]

50. you just made yourself irrelevant with your Tucker comment. Too

bad. Now go away and play.

[H2O Man]

55. Nope.

That is a word that has an actual meaning.

[CBGLuthier]

36. I can tell you one thing for fucking sure, I never drowned any dogs.

You include never sexually abused a kid in your litany of forgivable offenses. Personally, I would have left that one off your little rant.

[Duppers]

61. "Never kicked a pet.." !!! wow, so that's what Vick did!!

"Never sexually abused a child.."

Sir, I shall never forgive a person who has done these deeds.

Read some psychology studies. There's a reason there's lists of residence of child abusers.

FAIL.

[vi5]

5. I think the quetion is...

Will she get a second chance? Will she get to enjoy any of the comforts he's enjoying now and will continue to enjoy? Will his kids?

His is a good story, but the issue a lot of people have is that it obscures a lot of other less than savory and less than fell good images and issues, not just related to Williams himself but to the homeless and drug and alcohol situation as a whole.

It's not a matter of not thinking he's deserving of help it's wanting to spread some of the "OMG THIS IS SO SAD/HEARTWARMING/WHATEVER!!!!" around a little and maybe shed some light on the bigger picture. Not only the bigger picture of what his story is indicative of in our society, but in this case with his ex-wife, what the story is indicative of in terms of this one individual's life.

[northoftheborder]

7. good comments

[luvspeas]

8. awesome!

+1 million!

[hlthe2b]

14. That's like worrying about the end of the story before one picks up

the book. The guy literally just came off the street. You aren't even going to give him a damned WEEK to determine if he can get his act together with the opportunities coming his way before deriding him for not doing more for the family he left behind? While I DO agree with you that they should likewise reap some of the help he has denied them all these years and SOON, for Gawd's sakes, lets see if he can even pick himself off the ground. His wife is wishing him well, is seemingly non-judgmental and is hoping he makes it. Can't we all do at least that much as well?

[vi5]

20. Let's put it this way....

Within....what was it...72 hours time? He was able to get several job offers, record several voice overs for commercials and tv shows, fly around the country doing many interviews, and also they managed to know that he was estranged from his mother as well, track her down, get her to the tv studios, and to do a tearful reunion with her. Things obviously move fast.

My issue is not with him or his second chance. And I'm glad he's getting these opportunities, and I'm glad that is ex wife is happy for him as well.

But some of the major problems we have in this country are 1) our short attention spans 2) our desire to only see the positive image of things without ever peering behind the curtain, and 3) our love of a story that makes us feel good without ever having to do anything or look at ourselves and the way we live our lives.

If this were little more than a quick, puff piece, or a nice article in a paper or magazine about what happened then I would fully agree. Great story, wish him the best, etc. But if we as a country are going to spend this much time talking about this guy and his story, and the networks are going to devote as much time as they are to this (this morning, literally all 4 networks had this story on for at least 10 minutes, all roughly at the same time), then I don't think it's too much to ask that we maybe look at the bigger problem of homelessness in this country and at least some token discussion of the message this sends, which is that "If you have a talent that can be used then you are a worthy person, and as long as we can encapsulate this into a 5 minute news story that allows us to all feel good then you are worthy of our time as a society. But it sucks to the homeless without any marketable talent."

The problem is, I know the end of this story. Once it's no longer the shiny object that commands our attention and allows us to feel briefly as though our society is not a cesspool of selfishness, then the bigger picture, the one behind the feel good story goes away without so much as a cursory examination of it. Of the people who didn't get this opportunity because they simply didn't have a marketable talent. Of the people who struggled over the past 20 years just as much as he did (although with much less of a choice in the matter).

By all means I hope if in a week or two weeks from now, if you see a ton of stories about how he also reconciled with his kids and how they are going to benefit from this, or if you see a lot of reports about other people who have fallen on hard times or an examination of the homelessness and poverty problem in America then I urge you to send them to me via pm. I really do. I'll be happy to be wrong about this and maybe this is some sort of great wake up call. I really don't begrudge the guy himself a second chance and I'm really very happy for him. I absolutely am. But this story has more layers and more levels than just "You're either happy for the guy or you're not and you don't trust him." and I'm not sure why pointing that out and wanting more good to come of this, especially given just how fucking much the media and most people I know are fawning over this and patting themselves and us on the back for how great we are as a society that this can happen.

[hlthe2b]

24. self-edit...

I read your response to me quickly and drew a very different conclusion from that which I took from a second re-read, including the thoughts of fellow poster lukasahero. I think I see what you were trying to say and withdraw my original response.

Cheers.

[lukasahero]

27. Did you even read his post?

The "end of the story" that he knew had nothing to do with Mr. Williams. It had to do with the attention span of the American people and the media and how any good that could come from this story for other homeless people and our society at large will be lost in the clamor for our next feel good story.

Geez.

[hlthe2b]

29. It might, Lukasahero

I will only state that our celebrity-driven media is a problem for all of us, but most certainly for Mr. Williams who may face more pressure than he can deal with, even as he apparently WANTS and suggests he is ready for that second chance. But, for some to suggest that supports their derision of this man and his new found opportunities saddens me. And, yes, I do believe some are so vested in their prediction that he will fail, that their suggestion of "support" for the man's prospects ring hollow. That is hopefully not the case with any on this thread, including the poster who, as you point out, seems genuinely concerned about the trajectory of the media circus.

[vi5]

44. Yeah, as for his success of failure....

I only wish him success. And I think someone who has been down for so long as he has will probably stand a better chance than someone who only had a fleeting few days or months of struggle.

And I will also say the fact that he got himself clean and has been clean for 2 years despite still being on the streets probably speaks a great deal to his strength.

My issue as you derived after a few additional read throughs is with the media circus and the attention span of the American people. I've had more than a few people forward this whole story to me or seen them comment on in it on Facebook, who I knew were a good part of the time uncaring and dismissive of people who have fallen on hard times. And sadly, I don't see this situation or this story changing them and I don't see the media even attempting to do so.

As for the connection to his ex wife and kids, is not to be dismissive of him or mean that he doesn't deserve what he is receiving. It's the fact that each of these stories of hardship and turmoil and struggle have so many other layers. His struggle with addiction and homelessness and poverty didn't just impact him, and the people connected to this story don't just all get better or find success just because he does. It doesn't mean he doesn't deserve this, it's just a matter of pointing out that this story doesn't necessarily have a happy ending for everyone. Not through any fault or malice of Mr. Williams but because of the nature of addiction and poverty and struggle in this country. His kids will never get back the 20 years without a father that they lost to the struggle of drugs and alcohol. It's not saying we shouldn't praise Mr. Williams. It's saying we need to all look deeper at what we are doing in this country to our fellow citizens.

And that's not even getting into the notion that many people are as destitute or as on hard times as Mr. Williams not even because of drugs and alcohol but just simply because of the economic machine that is eating up and spitting out so many of us.

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. You're absolutely right. This is about second changes.

Not about passing judgment. What the guy does next will determine if he has learned anything. But it must come from him. He shouldn't be forced to do anything he isn't legally required to do.

[roguevalley]

51. I hope he helps his ex. it would be a fair and gentle ending to a

sad story.

[The Backlash Cometh]

56. So do I. But pushing your morality on ordinary people is something that the

right does best. I just step in when people abuse their power.

[roguevalley]

49. actually, it shows another person who is a role model for everyone

doesn't make him less to salute her

[Iggo]

2. EDIT

Message not messenger.

My apologies.

[Heidi]

4. "Except that Williams, who seems to be a nice guy, just wasn't strong..."

What an ignorant assumption on the article author's part. Addiction in my opinion isn't about strength anymore than any physical or mental illness is, and it doesn't necessarily keep a person from being "a nice guy."

Ms. Kirtley does sound like a fine human being. From her direct quotes in the article, she seems to wish nothing but good things for the father of her children.

[luvspeas]

10. 100 percent agree...n/t

[sadbear]

11. Sounds like she deserves a lot of back child support

Atone and spread the wealth, Mr. Williams. You're lucky to have it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. Alcoholism isn't a moral failing --

it's a disease.

[Heidi]

17. Yep. You'd never hear anyone say or imply that someone was immoral or weak for getting cancer

or schizophrenia, for example. Articles like this one do a disservice to journalism, truth and readers' capacity for compassion.

Thank you for saying exactly what I know to be true, Hell Hath No Fury. :thumbsup:

[Raschel]

22. I hope you never have cancer because there is a difference.

[Heidi]

23. My father has stage IV pancreatic cancer with liver involvement.

My mother in a breast cancer survivor. Lecture me when you get your Great Moral Authority card.

ETA: When my dad and I discussed the feature stories on Mr. Williams yesterday, Daddy said, "God bless him. In a just world, everyone would get at least one second chance."

[Raschel]

25. Like I said, I pray you never have it, because there is a difference.

I was diagnosed with stage IV with liver involvement. I am on chemo right now.

That was a bad comparison.

[blondeatlast]

26. I"m so sorry, Raschel. Sending a prayer for your comfort. nt

[Raschel]

31. Thank you so much. I plan to be here (in the world and on D.U.) for a long time.

Stage IV ladies can look great, as I do (healthwise) so we don't always get a lot of well wishes. I appreciate your prayer VERY much.

You have no idea how your taking the time to type a kindness makes me feel. I will carry that with me the rest of the day!

[hlthe2b]

32. Wishing you all the best, Raschel

Only the very best in your recovery....:hug:

[Raschel]

34. Thank you so much.

I don't want to hi-jack the thread.

Your well wishes have brought tears to my eyes. Really. Thank youl.

[Raschel]

30. I only read the first part of your reply. Just read the rest.

If you would re-read you would see I was commenting on your comparison, not Mr. Williams.

Your dad saying he deserves a second chance has nothing to do with my comment, unless you're implying that I don't think he deserves a second chance, in which case you are the one claiming moral authority.

At any rate, I'm sorry to hear about your father, and I hope your mom continues to do well.

[cutlassmama]

18. He said, last night, that he's been clean and sober for two years and has

been looking for a chance to redeem himself. I think the public should at least give him a chance to do just that.

[Liquorice]

52. I doubt that. The cops were called on him in July of 2010. This man has been arrested

over and over again, and not just for drugs. This guy is troubled, to say the least. If he's been looking to redeem himself for two years, why was he still stealing things out of people's cars a few months ago?

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/celebrity/meet-felon-golden-voice

[gateley]

62. When people are desperate, they do desperate things. There but for the grace of God... nt

[Raschel]

21. I have no respect for any man that abandons his children. He was welcome to see the children despite

the fact that he was welcome into the home and didn't bother.

[hlthe2b]

28. I might generally agree... but I would defer in this case to the wife and kids...

If they want to support and forgive him--to try to see what a second chance might make of both him and the future possibilities for a relationship, then who are we to argue otherwise? I think they probably know better than any of us, what the man was like before alcohol, drugs and whatever else took over. History is ripe with examples of those who lived through serious personal failings to become the celebrated person that we came to know and respect much later in their lives.

[Raschel]

33. I don't want to belittle it, or deny him a second chance. I think the feel good story is the mom.

In spite of a hard life, she is forgiving.

I don't respect him though, and I feel for the children. I think it would have been nice for him to see his children before being reunited with his mom. I'm sure his children had a lot of conflicting emotions witnessing that in the media.

I wish him well, but my interest lies more with the mom and the children that she supported all of those years, plus her impressive character.

I hope that he and his children can build a relationship.

[hlthe2b]

35. I wonder though, if she wants to be subject to the media...

I agree that more attention to her story would be fitting, but would not want to force the overwhelming attention on someone who has lived a quiet life if they were not given the choice. That is the problem with these stories that come seemingly "out of the blue" but develop into such media overreaction.

[smokey nj]

42. I hope Mr. Williams and his children get a chance to resolve their issues and build a relationship.

My brother-in-law was a junkie. My sister threw him out 15 years ago and his contact with my niece and nephews was sporadic over the years. Within the last couple of years, he'd cleaned up his act somewhat and started to re-establish relationships with the boys who are young adults now. My niece joined the navy after high school, so distance made that relationship more difficult to form. My niece left for the navy with a lot of anger toward her father for the hell he put my sister through, but that was easing with the passage of time. Unfortunately, my brother-in-law died suddenly in September and my niece is heartbroken that she wasn't able to mend the fences with her dad. She hadn't spoken to him for 3 years.

My brother-in-law wouldn't win any Father of the Year awards, but he wasn't a horrible person. I hated what his addiction did to the family and I hated that my sister had to have the weight of raising three kids mostly on her own, but I didn't hate him.

[hlthe2b]

43. thank you for posting...

Your first-hand experience with the issue leads credence to the possibilities. I don't know if this might be one of those instances where some form of a good ending could occur, but I surely do hope they get the chance.

I feel badly for your niece, but hope that she comes to realize that those feelings and even guilt are not uncommon--even when there is a good relationship. It is human nature to draw self-criticism during grief, but I hope she can forgive all concerned, including herself.

Thanks again for sharing.

[smokey nj]

45. You're welcome.

It's the first thing I thought of when I read the OP and saw some of the harsh responses. Things like this are rarely cut and dry. It's also worth saying that by staying away from his kids while he was addicted, Mr. Williams may have done his kids a favor.

[prolesunited]

41. Have you ever known anyone addicted

to drugs and alcohol? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

This isn't some high-paid executive who dumped the starter wife and kids for a trophy wife and shot at the big time.

This is a man who was/is ill because of an addiction that as both physical and mental components. His free will was gone the minute he picked up the crack pipe.

[Iggo]

48. Zero tolerance makes life easy, don't it?

[gateley]

63. Maybe he felt too ashamed - I think I would. nt

[Horse with no Name]

38. While I agree that this woman is a quiet hero

and deserves the recognition for what she did, I am not going to deny Williams his shot at the brass ring.

When you look at the statistics on Black males, the socioeconomic disparity available is astounding.

I won't judge him on what he did or didn't do as a young black man in this country with a stacked deck against him. Apparently, his life is looking up now.
Let's give this man a chance to be proud and do the right thing before he is condemned to what he didn't do as a young man.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/national/20blackmen.html

>>>snip
Focusing more closely than ever on the life patterns of young black men, the new studies, by experts at Columbia, Princeton, Harvard and other institutions, show that the huge pool of poorly educated black men are becoming ever more disconnected from the mainstream society, and to a far greater degree than comparable white or Hispanic men.

>>>>snip
"There's something very different happening with young black men, and it's something we can no longer ignore," said Ronald B. Mincy, professor of social work at Columbia University and editor of "Black Males Left Behind" (Urban Institute Press, 2006).

"Over the last two decades, the economy did great," Mr. Mincy said, "and low-skilled women, helped by public policy, latched onto it. But young black men were falling farther back."


>>>>snip
¶The share of young black men without jobs has climbed relentlessly, with only a slight pause during the economic peak of the late 1990's. In 2000, 65 percent of black male high school dropouts in their 20's were jobless — that is, unable to find work, not seeking it or incarcerated. By 2004, the share had grown to 72 percent, compared with 34 percent of white and 19 percent of Hispanic dropouts. Even when high school graduates were included, half of black men in their 20's were jobless in 2004, up from 46 percent in 2000.

[avaistheone1]

39. Perhaps so.

However, the real hero remains his ex-wife.

[Hannah Bell]

40. i don't think anyone called the man a hero to start with.

[BigBearJohn]

64. good point.

[DainBramaged]

47. Wonderful. Why are you so pissed at Williams?

It sure seems like you are unhappy with his comeback and notoriety

[Stinky The Clown]

53. She sounds like a wonderful, storng woman. But let's not ignore that addition is a disease . . . .

. . . and not a moral failing.

Addiction has devastated more people than we can imagine - both the addicted themselves and those who love them.

[NNN0LHI]

54. Shit, I had assumed this guy hit the skids during this current recession!

He has been homeless since Bush 1's recession.

Jeebuz.

Don

[Lorien]

58. I think that the author of this piece let her middle school aged child ghost

write it for her. Good God that was a painful read!

[Rage for Order]

59. Are you kidding me???

Why do you think he was in that position in the first place? She probably nagged and henpecked him so relentlessly that the prospect of becoming a homeless heroin addict was more appealing than spending one more day under the same roof with her!


:hide:

[LLStarks]

65. Unsung hero is Reddit. We made all of this possible.