I've noticed more and more Libertarians attacking Keynes

[mmonk]

when basically our problems are related to Friedman's shock doctrine. Can anyone elaborate on that a little? Can people cite the sources?

[provis99]

1. libertarian society was best described in "Lord of the Flies".

Ultimately, they care less about their ideology's effect on society, than on maintaining allegiance to the ideology, no matter how wrongheaded it is.

[mmonk]

2. I haven't looked it up yet but they claim Keynes was big in the

eugenics movement and admired Hitler's Germany and a corporate state. I don't remember studying that at the university level.

[eShirl]

6. So he had some things in common with W's grandfather.

[girl gone mad]

3. They also like to call Obama a Keynesian..

when he is obviously not.

[Odin2005]

4. A RW asshole on another form dismissed my job as "Keyensian Make-Work for Disabled people".

Oh no, taxpayers are helping a non-profit thrift store that employs disabled people! THE HORROR!!! :eyes:

[mmonk]

9. Their sick belief system is pretty soulless and callous as well as

being bad economic theory which is predominately imaginary at best.

[malaise]

5. Amazing isn't it

30 plus years of shock doctrine - Reagan and Thatcher fucked up the planet with Friedman and Hayek. Amazing that both Reagan and Thatcher suffered from dementia.

[mmonk]

10. Coincidence?

;-)

[lise]

7. has to do with the

notion of Keynesian economics being "Inflation-based".

The idea is that inflationary policies by the government and the federal reserve 1) are *highly* damaging to poorer people in a society. Also 2) distort markets-ie. there's no logic to the true "worth" of any given thing because gov and the Fed Reserve can pop in at any moment and manipulate interest rates or set policy that will affect the price of things overnight. See low low mortgage rates to pump the price of houses up, or cash for clunkers to pump the price of vehicles, etc etc.

In this regard, I think Ron Paul and the Libertarians in general are correct. A lot of people get thrown under the bus when inflation takes off, or even if it's just a steady upward trend over decades. The steady rise in the price of housing and the accompanying homeless probem over the past few decades is an example of this.

You can google "Austrian Economics" and there is a site with the Mise Institute (miseinstitute.org - maybe???!!) that has a ton of information. Also, I could be wrong about that name- maybe it's Mises, not Mise.

To an anti-inflationist, Obama would be seen as "Keynesian" because of the trillion dollar stimulus, the Wall Street Bailouts, etc. All of these kinds of things "cheapen" our money and lead to inflation and it's problems.

That's the basic idea anyway. People who are anti-inflationary see *both* Parties (D and R) as participants in Keynesian (Inflationary ) Economics (vs. Austrian Economics) since the early 1900's when the Fed Reseve was established (1913).

Happy research! These ideas are a worthwhile thing to explore if you care about poverty, or about economic stability in general.

[mmonk]

11. TARP was instituted under Bush.

I don't believe the stimulus was that big and 40% of that was tax cuts, a big part of both the Friedman and libertarian bible.

[lise]

12. TARP was passed during the Bush Administration-

- by a Majority Democratic Congress.

Like I said, Austrian economists have a problem with *both* Parties, seeing them *both* as too Keynsian AKA : too Inflationary.

Tho it's true that, in general, there is more push-back from Repub. voters against things inflationary. Hence the voting OUT of office of some of the Repub Congresscrooks who voted for TARP in 2010, while all of our Dem reps who voted for TARP remain in office.

There is a lot of support among Dem voters for Keynesian economics/ inflationary policies.

[mmonk]

13. I support stimulus such as that which helps put people to work,

not to go to banksters and their politicians who deregulated the financial markets to make them "free market" by replacing Glass Steagall with Gramm-Bliley-Leach causing the crisis. I'm also against monopoly power meaning I'm against the "too big to fail" concept. I support anti-trust.

[girl gone mad]

14. Keynes would never have supported TARP as structured..

in my view. It was a bailout of wealthy banking interests, with no requirement that the money be pumped into the real economy. Not Keynesian in the least, and it came on the heels of years of expansionary deficit spending under Bush (Keynes would have pushed for contraction).

In fact, while the monetary base expanded, money supply continued to shrink. There is no evidence that inflation was or is a real concern. Don't blame keptocratic looting on Keynes.

[Odin2005]

15. Austrian Economics is complete and utter bullshit.

They are against empirical evidence and proud of it.

[War Horse]

8. "Overton window"-ish?

Dunno. Keynesianism = Socialism, apparently, according to RW talking points - these terms all lose their meaning eventually, which I guess is the point...

[Taverner]

16. Simple - they follow Ayn Rand and sometimes Adam Smith

They think the titans of the economy (read: rich assholes) should be treated like royalty, and everyone else can fuck off.

When someone says "I'm a Libertarian" I read "I'm someone who hates everyone except me! Yayyyyy!"