Public employees work for less, not more

[kpete]

On average, state and local employees earn $6,061 per year less than their private-sector counterparts. Add in health and insurance benefits and the average public worker earns $2,001 less per year than her peer in the private sector.

http://epi.3cdn.net/8808ae41b085032c0b_8um6bh5ty.pdf

more:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2011/1/7/933974/-Public-employees-work-for-less,-not-more

[RegieRocker]

1. That is correct!

People are so brainwashed into thinking government is bad and privatization is so wonderful while they are getting reamed by privatization. Roflmao

[wickerwoman]

2. Thank you!

Also, although many of them are unionized one of the stipulations for "essential" jobs is that they are not allowed to strike for higher wages.

[pinto]

3. Excellent, well sourced study (EPI).

Thanks for the link. :hi:

(on edit) Disclaimer - I'm a former County employee...

[CountAllVotes]

4. that is true

I went from a job I that paid $11.00 an hr. I got another job with the State and it paid supposedly about $100.00 less per month which was acceptable to me at that time being THE BENEFITS WERE BETTER.

I'll never forget it - my first paycheck, it was for $1,100.00 for the entire month. They took so much out of it for all of the various benefits that I was indeed working full-time for near poverty level wages. It never got a whole lot better either, even after doing it for several years. As soon as I became vested in their pension plan, I quit, oh yes I did!

:dem: :kick:

[RobinA]

11. I Found This Too

I went public for a couple thousand less a year than I was making. I figured it was worth it because my previous job was hell on Earth and the medical insurance was so crappy I was buying my own. I started getting paid (after the normal lag time of about 1 1/2 months) and I'm going, Where's the money? I wasn't paying through the nose for health insurance, but wait!!! I'm paying additonal for the much maligned retiree health benefits. Ya know, the ones that the taxpayer is supposedly getting soaked for. Added together and it's as steep as any private company. Add that to all the other benefits I'm paying the full ride for, plus the wonderful pension that I pay plenty for and am nevertheless not supposed to have, and my pay check was getting pretty close to what it was at my first job out of college. Cadillac benefits my butt. OK, the health bennies are decent after the co-pay. Decent.

[CountAllVotes]

18. lucky me

I had Kaiser at this "new" and "improved" job. I had Kaiser with the old job as well.

The benefits were a bit better for one reason - I had dental insurance that paid for 2 cleanings a year and up to $1,000.00 worth of dental work.

As for the pension plan, I get a whopping $70.00 a month I am ashamed to write as things did not go as I had planned sadly. :(

It sickens me to read all of these things about public employees being overpaid, etc.

Some of them are (like prison guards for example) but for the most part, every one else in jobs like I had were pretty much in the same boat I was in and that was both overworked and underpaid and also dominated by the female sex I will add.

[Rabrrrrrr]

5. No, they're overpaid unionized socialist parasites who'd be fired in private sector for laziness.

Especially if they're a teacher. OMG!!!!!!!!!

[kevinbgoode]

7. haha. . .well, I have a plan for teacher's unions to fight back. . .

They should immediately propose legislation which requires royalties be paid for the use of their knowledge by persons earning over 250k a year. . .that seems like a perfectly good proposal that conservatives should readily understand. After all, if Republicans can make money by deregulation corporations so that companies can "generate" income by creating "fees" out of thin air, then why can't teachers demand that those who (as conservatives claim) are "successful" because they became wealthy, generate a percentage of income back to those teachers who taught them how to read, write, spell, do math, use a computer and ponder the world around them? Seems like if the GOP can claim that their ability to con a dollar out of everyperson's pocket for just about anything is considered being "smart" - then the knowledge that teachers use (well beyond the required textbooks in the classroom) should be charging royalties to those 'successful" people who conservatives consider "smart."

[leftstreet]

6. K&R

[AnneD]

8. Comparing apples to apples....

As a Nurse in the public sector I make an average of $20-30K less a year and have done this for the last 21 years. And when you figure out how bad the health care is and how much of that I am paying-I am not long for the public sector. I am still young enough to retire with my state pension intact and still work for 5-10 years in the private making real money.

Oh, and that plush retirement, I pay 6% of my wages EVERY time I get a buck to the retirement system. And all that money I put into the Social Security system (yes I had enough quarters before I went into the state system), I will never be able to collect it. So I have paid double and will be lucky to get anything.

This is just another orchestrated attempt at union busting. Hell, we don't even have a true union here as we are forbidden from striking in this right to work state. It is just a federation.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. My wife retired from the state system and collects SS.

Has the law changed? I'm not saying you're wrong, just curious.

[AnneD]

10. Lots of states opted out of paying SS tax ....

and set up their own retirement system. So that is why MANY public service folks can't get it. That is fair and I understand that. Then in about 2006 Congress passed a bill (WHO and I can't remember the other pneumonia) and those of us that had paid in to the SS were barred from collecting, even survivors benefits if we receive a state pension. Like I said. I paid in to two systems and I will be lucky to get one.

There were a few loop holes and your wife may have qualified and to her I say bueno fortuna. But folks like myself that had careers before working for the state were screwed out of the SS we paid in to. They smell the money from the pensions and mark my words they want to use the budget crisis to steal that too.

[RobinA]

12. What Was the Brilliant

thinking behind THAT? The states tied themselves to paying the full ride for retirement for state workers. If they want to chop the pension they will get killed (hopefully) by non SS-receiving seniors. I work for the state and they are still taking out SS, so I assume I get it.

[AnneD]

16. You will if you pay SS...

The states got a break by not having to pay into SS. It saved them money. With the money they saved, it was suppose to "cost" them less then to run state government. The problem is that states then reneged on fully funding those pensions-kicking the can down the road. Now as more state workers are retiring, in this economy, states find themselves with dropping revenues, un/under funded pensions, and the bills are coming due. They are opting to blame the victim-the poor chronically underpaid state worker. They are blaming the 'evil union' as the culprits, instead of their reckless fiduciary mismanagement.

The railroads also opted out of the social security system and you don't hear squawking there. It can be managed right, but not by some politicians.

[RobinA]

28. My State

is among the renegers, PA. Wish I could get away with that. "Oh, sorry Student Loan Company, I haven't paid my bill in a year and now I can't afford it. You can expect to receive about half of what I originally borrowed."

[MissB]

23. My state allows us to draw both a state pension and SS.

I wouldn't work for the state otherwise.

[Kingofalldems]

13. K and R for the Teabaggers

[old mark]

14. Many public employees have jobs that most people wouldn't want

in exchange for security and a decent benefit package. The perception that we get rich is political manipulation.
In PA, civil service employees are forbidden by law to engage in public political activity other than voting-even political signs in your yard and bumper stickers can get you fired.
We are perpetual targets for the elected politicians who choose to use us as such and we have NO legal way of fighting back-other than voting.
K&R
Mark
Retired AFSCME Steward

[CountAllVotes]

17. that was me

The job I had no one wanted. It was working in an surgical unit. Doctors came in covered with blood after operating on people. This was in 1983 before they knew what caused AIDS. At this time, the job was not unionized. Now it is however.

Scary reality it was no doubt! :scared:

[Rage for Order]

21. If this is indeed the case...

"Many public employees have jobs that most people wouldn't want"

Maybe we should bring in illegal immigrants to do those jobs.

:think:

[old mark]

30. Maybe we should attempt to understand what people have to tollerate to

provide for their families before we condemn them.

:think:

mark

[RobinA]

29. SEIU in PA Here

Jobs people don't want in conditions the private sector wouldn't put up with...and wouldn't be asked to.

[hfojvt]

15. that is a strange study

they say the average wage is $55,000 a year. How is that possible when median household income is $50,000 a year and many of those households have two incomes. Seriously, the average wage is $27 an hour? Where? Who the fuck gets $27 an hour??

I make $14 an hour (working for the government) and that seems to me like damn good money. I cannot make that much working retail, I cannot make that much working at a restaurant and I also cannot make that much starting at any of the local factories. When I was unemployed, I had been fired from a job that paid $11.30 an hour in 2001. I applied at a place right next door to them that was doing similar work. In the ad they said they paid 'competitive wages'. I said on the application that I wanted $10 an hour, since it was a fairly long commute. When I called to find out why I never got called for an interview, they said they only pay $8 an hour.

Yet in this study, the average is $27 an hour. :wtf:

[wickerwoman]

19. Mostly GS10s and above, I would guess.

Here's the salary scale for government workers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Schedule

Scroll down to base salary. $55,000 is a mid level GS10.

[Shagbark Hickory]

20. What about if you compare pensions? nt

[alarimer]

22. Yes and thanks for this.

All the articles that state otherwise are simply misusing statistics. For one thing, they are comparing apples and rutabagas. People who work in government tend to be better educated (48% have at least a bachelor's degree and many have more than that). In the private sector, about 23% have degrees. Generally, more education translates for higher pay but when you control for education level, government employees actually make less. But you have to control for education; otherwise you have an invalid comparison, something most "journalists" fail to account for.

[MissB]

24. I work in the public sector.

Dh and I are both engineers. He works in the private sector, I work in the public sector. We both have the same professional license.

He makes about 2x more right now than I will ever make when I reach the top of my pay scale, after a bunch more step increases. Fresh-out-of-college engineering graduates make more than what I am currently making, and I've worked there for six years.

On the other hand, my state pays the 6% of my portion of my retirement contribution - it doesn't come out of my salary. I also have no premiums to pay for my health, dental and vision insurance (though there are co-pays). And at the end, I get a pension, SS and my deferred comp (as well as a PERS account, separate from my pension).

There are trade-offs. We could be raking in a lot more dough by having me work in the private sector, but I'd be working way longer hours (we have kids) and our health benefits would be crap. We took the long view and decided that having me work for a lower rate of pay but with good benefits and a pension was a good idea for our family.

[WillyT]

25. Thank You !!! - K & R !!!

:kick:

[MichiganVote]

26. K&R

[Starry Messenger]

27. k&r