Jared Lee Loughner was merely the murder weapon. Sarah, Rush, Glenn, et al are the murderers.

[backscatter712]

Those of you watching the special Countdown hopefully just watched Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Center make this point.

Those of you who have watched Jared Loughner's Youtube videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/Classitup10 are probably getting the same impression that I got - this guy's clearly mentally disturbed. He may very well be found to be incompetent to stand trial, and will likely receive the same fate as John Hinckley, the schizophrenic would-be-assassin of Ronald Reagan.

Loughner's only the tool. He's a sick man, driven to violence by his own illness, and by the violent rhetoric of the right wing.

Potok commented on this. Things from "conscious dreaming" (Loughner mistakenly called it "conscience dreaming") to talk about the nation's currency, his idea to create his own currency, or switch to the gold standard, all came originally from the right wing. Sarah Palin putting crosshairs on people's districts, and telling the Tea Party to "lock and load." Glenn Beck "poisoning" Nancy Pelosi on his show. The constant feed of hateful and violent rhetoric is designed to feed the disturbances of mentally ill people like Loughner, and are deliberately intended to make their political opponents the targets of violence.

So in my book, Loughner's just the murder weapon. Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and their ilk are the murderers.

[cynatnite]

1. You're wrong...

He is a murderer.

[backscatter712]

2. WOW! BRILLIANT REBUTTAL!!!

Care for details?

[cynatnite]

6. I don't agree with you...

The RW does share some responsibility. No doubt about that.

This young man may be mentally disturbed, but it does not change the fact that he is a murderer and an assassin. I'm inclined to add the label of terrorist as well.

[backscatter712]

8. We'll have to wait until the psychiatrists evaluate him and give their opinions.

But my admittedly layman's impression from watching his videos was that Loughner was seriously mentally ill, and not fully in touch with reality. In short, the kind of person that's vulnerable to the violent rhetoric of the right, gets ideas in their heads, gets them twisted around with the messed-up circuitry in their heads, and become violent.

[cynatnite]

11. I agree he's vulnerable, but it still doesn't absolve him either....

I'm not trying to absolve haters like Palin and Limbaugh either.

[backscatter712]

20. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

And I'm open to changing my mind. My gut of truthiness says that Loughner's got a severe mental illness, probably schizophrenia, that distorted his perceptions and his thought processes, and at least contributed to this. And I say this because I do have some experience with people with mental illness.

But it's also possible that he's just above the line, and competent to be held accountable to his actions - that maybe he had some distorted thoughts and perceptions, but still had enough functioning faculties to still understand that shooting people is wrong. And if that's the case, I agree, he should be charged with murder and treated accordingly.

[Zoeisright]

3. They are ALL murderers.

I'd like to know exactly when they are going to be held accountable.

[MichiganVote]

4. Hate talkers don't have to kill if we don't listen to them

[backscatter712]

5. I don't give the right-wing hate machine my eyes and ears.

Unfortunately, half of the country does...

[RayTy]

14. first post

hi i'm new and i just want to say that this tragedy 2day is what got me 2 join this site ive lurked a while this type of act is the falt of peeps like big fat rush limpy n dumass sar

[backscatter712]

17. Welcome to DU!

This is one of the more lively political forums on the Internet, so fasten your seat belt... ;)

[livetohike]

19. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[RayTy]

21. thanks!

[DainBramaged]

7. It's not suprsing that the REC counts are so low today

The power of the Dark Side of the Force is strong here.

[stray cat]

9. No - he can not be absolved for murder because he listens to the radio

[backscatter712]

12. Clearly, if he's got enough functioning mental faculties to still understand what he just did...

Then yeah, I'd agree with you that he should be on trial for first degree murder.

But I'm not entirely sure that he's mentally competent. Think about it. John Hinckley tried to shoot Ronald Reagan because he thought that Jodie Foster would fall in love with him. That's completely fucked up logic that indicates there's some short circuits in Hinckley's head. I'm wondering if the same kind of faulty wiring's in Loughner's head.

We could argue back and forth about this all day. The truth is that we'll have to wait until he gets his psychiatric examination.

But one thing we can agree on is the role that the right-wing hate machine has in these incidents when they saturate the airwaves with violent, incendiary rhetoric. At the minimum, Sarah Palin, Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, etc. etc. etc. should be regarded as co-murderers.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. I somewhat agree with you

The guy is likely a nut. But he and people like him are the audience targeted by the hate speakers.

[backscatter712]

16. My point exactly.

People like Loughner are targeted by the right-wing hate machine - it's a classic tactic.

[Initech]

13. Wasn't this kind of rhetoric responsible for Oklahoma City?

[MadBadger]

15. I uncrec'd because ultimately Loughner is the one who shoulders most of the blame

I think Palin and others are accessories. And I dont think we should minimize that it was ultimately Loughner who acted.

[anamandujano]

24. The naive and dim witted usually act for the inciters. Do you think

that the people who brain wash the suicide bombers would ever blow themselves up to get to heaven or whatever it is they promise?

They get others to do the dirty work and take the blame.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

22. Can we first find out if he actually even watched or listened to any of them?

That might be a useful piece of info, no?

He sounds like more of an Alex Jones type.

[anamandujano]

25. Not speaking about him specifically but

since we can all see that this outcome could easily been related to the rhetoric and poster, it is enough to hold them accountable in some way for their hate speech.

I don't watch TV anymore but will be reading here about the public debate. If the kind of talk that may have caused this incident is not universally condemned, I shudder to think what else will happen.

It gives me the same kind of creeps that the anthrax killings produced.

[Faryn Balyncd]

23. +1000