What rhetoric or violence from the Left needs to be "toned down"?

[devilgrrl]

Everyone keeps saying that "BOTH SIDES" need to tone it down.

So. Let me ask you all something. How does the Left go about "toning it down"? And what kinds of things are the left saying that would incite others to do violent deeds?

"The left needs to tone it down."

:spray:

Yeah, sure it does...

[slackmaster]

1. I'd be happy if people would stop posting in all caps

:nuke:

[devilgrrl]

3. delete

sorry.

[arthritisR_US]

124. posting two words in caps out of 52 is "posting in all caps"? That's some low tolerance meter

you have.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

134. If it was a RW post, his tolerance would be up to 50 all caps words.

[WinkyDink]

150. Sensitive, are we?

[liberalmuse]

2. It's BS, really.

Unless you can kill someone using truth and logic...

[JoePhilly]

4. Apparently ... we need to be more toleratant of instances when ...

the right wing threatens to kill us. It upsets them. And then they have to defend themselves by threatening us some more.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

6. I don't know, my POTUS (that I voted for) told me to STFU

and sit down back in November...I guess the only good liberal is a silent liberal? We should all be good citizens and not complain while the Right is killing us off. :sarcasm:

[emulatorloo]

22. Find me where the POTUS told you to STFU and "sit down" in november.

Can we fucking can the BULLSHIT HYPERBOLE for a few days.

[Rex]

38. No, political assassinations bring out the emotions.

Do you have a problem with that?

[emulatorloo]

78. Yes, I have a problem with hyperbolic demonization

no matter what site I read it on. Especially today.

And honestly your post mostly appeared to about making YOU the center of attention, and what an evil politician had done to you, not about Rep Giffords and her staff members and constituents who were killed and wounded.

Don't take this personally, it is not meant personally. It is about your post as a piece of rhetoric and the Internet Persona you have adopted to deliver that post.

[L0oniX]

7. It's just bull shit. Where are all the left wing radio hosts inciting violence?

There aren't any.

[CTyankee]

21. Keith and Rachel, I think that's who they have in mind.

It doesn't matter that they didn't actually "say" anything about acting violently. It's just that when they go on a rant, it makes the RW so mad that they are driven to violence. See how that works? :sarcasm:

[Rage for Order]

87. The DCCC had a target map

As did the DLC

[fascisthunter]

97. lol... those are not crosshairs, not even close

also don't forget the rhetoric that preceded Palin's map.

[Rage for Order]

116. This map "targeted" specific individuals

Of course, it wasn't accompanied by the type of rhetoric we hear from the right, but it's pretty clear in stating that certain people should be targeted for opposing the stimulus, much the same way that certain people should be targeted for voting in favor of health care reform.

[fascisthunter]

122. So, to you this and Palin's ad are the Same?

Nobody on the left is physically attacking the GOP or right wing politicians. Also there was no rhetoric of guns being used preceding this ad. You are completely separating all context regarding Palin's obvious attempt to incite violence in order to create an equivalent. You may be convincing yourself, but I seriously doubt you'll convince many others except for those at Freak Republik. Be a bit more honest with yourself....

[Igel]

143. They're bull's eyes.

You aim things at them. Perhaps water balloons.

On the other hand, you also aim arrows, crosswbow shafts, and bullets at them.

Earlier I read posts that tried to say no Democrat, liberal, or progressive would ever use such violent terminology wrt another. They'd never say somebody was a "target" (like that's not a metaphor so common as to have been bleached of any violent intent) or use a "bull's eye". I'm sure the few who said such inanities believed them and that they had seen precisely this kind of map and heard this kind of talk; they just didn't recall facts that would undermine their point or cause them to be painted with the same brush they wanted to paint bad guys with. In this they're simply human.

As for crosshairs only being implicated in guns, I had a SLR camera with crosshairs once and--gasp--I used it to shoot many people, including friends and relatives. Oh, the humanity!

[WinkyDink]

152. Are you actually suggesting the rhetoric is the same? That Democrats say "lock and load"?

[Zebedeo]

165. Crosshairs

crosshairs

effigy hanged

death threats

It has been coming from BOTH sides.

[devilgrrl]

168. You keep telling yourself that

:hi:

[Zebedeo]

170. Why

do you waste time replying if you have nothing substantive to say? :shrug:

[devilgrrl]

171. I reply because you bury yourself everytime you respond.

Go to Free Republic and spew your moral superiority.

[fascisthunter]

179. they have no idea what moral even means... the need somebody to tell them what it is

that's why they do one thing and say the other.

[devilgrrl]

182. Oh totally.

I was alerted to that clown by another member.... I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

[Kurovski]

146. Besides, the DLC is our own lil right wingers.

I'm of the opinion that the DLC sucks. I'm happy to demand that they change.

[blondeatlast]

119. wow, my local powercenter mall has one of those, too. nt

[WinkyDink]

151. Arrows are rifle sights?

WTH are you trying to pull?

[Strelnikov_]

161. Sam Seder has said some pretty awful things about the NY Yankees n/t

[Puregonzo1188]

8. I think maybe they're trying to equate Paline, Rush, Beck, and other major media/political figures

with newspapers printed by Maoist in their basement. I mean aren't those the kinds of people they always drudge up to make these points?

[DBoon]

18. Not even Bob Avakian's RCP has called for the assasination of individual politicians

violent class war maybe, but nothing like the public individual targeting we get with the right wing.

Even violent left wing anarchists focus on trashing property, or at best trying to openly battle armed police officers

BTW, I have always strongly suspected groups like this to be police honeypots anyway

[Puregonzo1188]

148. They do have a rifle as their logo though.

Not that I'm defending this equivalency at all, in face the opposite. People like Palin, Beck, etc. are the "mainstream" of the rightwing and reach national audiences. Maoist who use rifles as their logo and call for "revolution" and "people's war" print newspapers in their basement that reach three people.


And yes, I suspect many of these individuals are police honeypots as well. Though some of are just stupid people with masturbatory fantasies about violence.

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. The closest the Left gets is to call opponents really stupid, as in "knuckle draggers"

It can be demeaning and to some extent dehumanizing. But it isn't violent.

[shanti]

17. awwww

so they got their poor widdle feeling hurt. cry me a river!

[RichGirl]

25. Has any democratic public figure ever....

...called republican public figures knuckle draggers??? That's what is at issue here...not the general public making random remarks on the internet. It's those who have notoriety, who have the microphone and a wide audience. In Palins case, everything she utters is on every news outlet repeatedly.

[timtom]

105. Excellent distinction, RichGirl

A very wise and sobering point of view.

Thanks.

[Tom Rinaldo]

138. You are absolutely right. And that distinction is crucial. n/t

[Igel]

144. I refer you to these not to call people out.

Some of them I rather admire and it's usually hyperbole that's being written. Often humorous. Sometimes derivative, said because it was recently said, was witty the first time, and perhaps thought witty the 12th or 43rd time.

On the other hand, if all imagery and all language that is violent must be forbidden because it must be taken literally--a bit of pseudo-fundie silliness, IMO--then there it is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4681426&mesg_id=4681771

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=78755&mesg_id=79860

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4676072&mesg_id=4676211

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=538905&mesg_id=538993


On the bright side, it's harder to carry a loaded guillotine, pull it out and use it to quickly kill 6 people before bystanders can stop you. On the other hand, it is redolent of the French Revolution and the following Reign of Terror.

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. I answered this question in the post I wrote this a.m.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x150763

[devilgrrl]

11. Sorry - I missed the earlier threads

:blush:

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. No prob.

Just didn't want to repeat my opinion. I got lazy, so I linked. :-)

[still_one]

12. If this was the late sixties, maybe early seventies it might have a point, but not for the last 30

plus years it doesn't in this country.

Today most of the violent attacks are from the right from what I can observe in this country

[WinkyDink]

153. Not even then, if we are speaking of media figures or politicians and not civilian radicals.

[kgnu_fan]

14. silence is golden...

The Tremeloes - Silence Is Golden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyj2qL-bQ4E

[rucky]

15. Another way of looking at it:

not saying this is good or right or effective, but here goes:

The people who need to get this message will not get it if it's just targeted at them. In fact, any attacks on the right are immediately rejected by the right as partisan and hateful. So the "both sides do it" angle may be disingenuous, but it may get people to listen who normally wouldn't.

Of course, that's assuming the person saying it has credibility of at least appearing to be fair.

[shanti]

16. they want us to stop pointing it out!

ain't gonna happen.

[immoderate]

19. I posted my answer here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=145955&mesg_id=146454

I'll add (invoking some Transactional Analysis) this is a "Parent to Child" kind of message, ("You all have to behave.") whereas Sheriff Dupnik addresses the public as Adults.

--imm

[Batgirl]

20. Years ago, I got into a debate on this topic with one of DU's resident Trolls.

A troll who pathetically equated the activities of Code Pink with what, even then, was an extensive list of wingnut violence.

[CTyankee]

23. cuz Code Pink was rude and wore stupid stuff and tried to interrupt

Congressional hearings. And that is enough to incite violence somewhere, somehow, in some manner yet undetermined but certainly a possibility and see what their irresponsible talk did...or something like that...

[EFerrari]

24. As Medea says, politeness has become complicity.

If Code Pink interrupts the "decorum" of Congressional hearings, they are doing us a service by pointing out the mendacity of CSPAN Theater.

[CTyankee]

26. Yup, yup and yup....

[Batgirl]

29. Why it's enough to make me reach for my smellin' salts nt

[Zebedeo]

27. Uh,

how about all the comments on DU that we should "eat the rich"? How about the many references to revolution and how the gates of gated neighborhoods will not be enough to protect the rich when the revolution comes?

[devilgrrl]

28. Comments on public bulletin boards... Now there's some damning evidence!!!!!

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Also, any instances of storming gates? Besides the French Revolution I mean...

:eyes:

[Zebedeo]

30. Alright, you want to include only comments of public officials . . .

How about Pres. Obama referring to his political opponents as "enemies" who need to be "punished"? Face it, it is happening on both sides. It needs to stop.

[devilgrrl]

32. How about Ronald Reagan joking about bombing the USSR? How about Bush Sr. calling Liberals degenerat

es?

You want tit for tat?????

Like the right - you have NOTHING!!!

:hi:

Have a nice day. :-)

[Zebedeo]

35. I said it is happening on both sides and it needs to stop.

your rebuttal is that conservatives do it, too? That isn't a rebuttal. You have just agreed with me.

And you have a nice day, too. :)

[devilgrrl]

40. You have not cited one credible instance of left wing violence or incendiary rhetoric

YOU ARE A LIAR!!!!!!!!

:hi:

[Zebedeo]

98. Vice President Biden

said "If I hear one more Republican tell me about balancing the budget, I am going to strangle them." link

Pres. Obama said that the election of a Republican Congress in November would result in "hand-to-hand combat." link

The Democratic Leadership Council used a "Targeting Strategy" map against President Bush, showing gunrange or archery range targets on a map of the United States. The caption beneath the map read, "BEHIND ENEMY LINES: President Bush won nine states by single-digit margins. These states should be ripe targets for Democrats." link

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee had a map on their website in 2010 with targets on the map representing Republican politicians who had been "targeted." As far as I can tell, that map has now been scrubbed from the DCCC website.

A book entitled "The Assassination of George W. Bush - A Love Story" was written and published and sold in mainstream bookstores.

So, yes, the violent imagery has definitely been on BOTH sides. You called me a liar. I will not return the favor by calling you one. Instead, I will request that you reconsider your position, because it is erroneous, and I will and hereby do request that you apologize to me for that uncalled-for insult.

Thank you, and have a nice day.

[devilgrrl]

108. Laughable....

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Kurovski]

147. I wiw kew yew a miwwyen times!

:rofl:

[Zebedeo]

107. Here's a Daily Kos article about targeting Republicans

DailyKos

In the article, the following violent imagery is used:

"targeting" politicians

"who are we going after this time?"

"the DCCC has fired an initial first salvo against the following Representatives"

"Many of these folks have either been on the DCCC target list"

[devilgrrl]

109. Oh - the evidence is crystal clear!!!!!!

Now I want to TARGET something!!!!!!

:eyes:

[Zebedeo]

113. You want to "fire a first salvo at"

them?

[devilgrrl]

115. Why are suggesting that I commit an act violence?

Such a right wing thing to do.

[blondeatlast]

120. Goodness, this is vitally important to you, I see.

Interesting.

[fascisthunter]

you really think your examples are the same as what the RW says daily

on the radio and tv as well as on many discussion forums. You want to equate the two... if you do, you are a liar.

[devilgrrl]

46. They are lying...

it's what people do when there's nothing else.

It's that simple.

[WinkyDink]

156. The question was: Where is your evidence on the LEFT?

[Zebedeo]

166. Biden, Obama, Olbermann, etc.

These are not left? If you want me to cite examples from the extreme fringe left, it will be even easier to find examples of violent rhetoric, as you well know.

[devilgrrl]

169. The examples you provided are lame - now go disrupt FR with your BS.

:nuke:

[Zebedeo]

176. Does Markos Moulitsos count as "left"?

daily kos

He put Gabrielle Giffords on a "target list" and said there was a "bulls eye" on her district because she voted in favor of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008.

[devilgrrl]

177. Still grasping for straws I see.

:popcorn:

[namahage]

103. Got a link for that? n/t

[Zebedeo]

110. Yes

punish our enemies

[devilgrrl]

117. Now if that doesn't get people out the streets killing each other what will?

:sarcasm:

[Zebedeo]

121. If Bush had called his political opponents "enemies"

who need to be "punished" this board would have been all over it, calling Bush a fascist dictator who should be impeached for such comments. There is a tremendously obvious double standard, and it is intellectually dishonest. No president of this country should be calling any of its citizens "enemies" simply because they have opposing political views. And using the term "enemies" is so totally inappropriate, because it is a term that is used in war for the people who you are trying to kill.

[devilgrrl]

123. What did "the Axis of Evil" do for you? Incite you to dig up things Democrats said in comparison?

BTW, what is your purpose? It obviously doesn't involve anything that relates to Liberalism or Progressive view points. What is the point of your presence here?

[Zebedeo]

128. You are the problem.

You dismiss with a wave of the hand the numerous examples of political speech with violent imagery from the left that I have cited. Just as a conservative might dismiss with a wave of the hand the examples of political speech with violent imagery from the right. My point is that BOTH sides should perhaps tone it down a bit. That's why I responded to the OP in this thread.

You have failed to explain how my examples are not valid. Instead, you just say they are "laughable," or when that does not work, you point out that those on the right have used violent imagery. Yet that does not in any way refute my position, which is that BOTH sides have used terms in political speech that evoke violent imagery.

I am a loyal Democrat, and that's why I am here. I am also intellectually honest, and I can't stand double standards such as those applied by you and those like you on the right.

[devilgrrl]

130. You lie lie lie

LIAR!

[Zebedeo]

133. Where did you learn

such amazingly effective and elegant discourse? It is truly impressive.

[devilgrrl]

139. Your examples are a joke - several others have also pointed out - you have no case.

eom

[scarletwoman]

31. And how many Dem politicians and Media personalities amplify and promote those remarks?

How many "eat the rich" DUers are interviewed on cable TV? How many host their OWN radio or TV shows? How many show up in public gatherings waving butcher cleavers?

[devilgrrl]

34. How many show up armed?

Seriously! :crazy:

[Overseas]

36. I think a little chart of DU inflammatory comments vs FR vitriol would put that to rest.

You'd have a teeny stack of DU eat-the-rich stuff vs. a tower of FR hate.

What public darling on the Democratic side compares to Palin's posting of target sights on political campaign maps?

What lefty TV talk show guest has made comments one-half as hateful as Ann Coulter's?

What Democratic politician has advocated "2nd Amendment Remedies" like Sharon Angle has?

None of the lefty radio hosts' commentaries during the Bush Administration can compare with Limbaugh's truckloads of hateful lies during this Democratic presidency, and here's just a recent batch of links: http://mediamatters.org/search/tag/rush_limbaugh?tab=clips:

# Limbaugh: Blah Blah Blah, Death Panels, Blah Blah Blah
January 07, 2011 3:31 pm ET
# Rush: Welfare State Is "By Design" To Lure Minority Voters To Democratic Party
January 07, 2011 3:26 pm ET
# Limbaugh Explains Voter Support For Obama As An Effort To "Eliminate This Last Vestige Of Slavery"
January 07, 2011 3:17 pm ET
# Rush: "Most Abortions In The Country Are Of Future Liberals"; "Amnesty" Achieves "Replacement Level For Democrat Voters"
January 07, 2011 2:01 pm ET
# Rush: "Our Manchild President Of Color" Has "Driven Us Further Apart By Race"
January 07, 2011 1:26 pm ET
# Limbaugh Advances False Claim That Private-Sector Pay Is Half Of Government-Employee Pay
January 06, 2011 3:04 pm ET
# Limbaugh Dismisses "Victim Parade" Of People Who Will Lose Benefits If Health Care Reform Is Repealed
January 06, 2011 2:02 pm ET
# Rush: Democrats Are "Perverts" Who Are "Perverting The Founding Documents"
January 05, 2011 1:09 pm ET
# Rush: Reading The Constitution In GOP House Is "An Exorcism" Because "Evil, If You Will, Is Being Removed"

[devilgrrl]

41. He/She has nothing. Just simply throwing a turd in the punchbowl.

eom

[Zebedeo]

66. Keith Olbermann

called Michelle Malkin a ‘Mashed-Up Bag of Meat With Lipstick on it.” There have been numerous other violent misogynistic comments about conservative women. You don't really need me to list them, do you?

[devilgrrl]

70. ‘Mashed-Up Bag of Meat With Lipstick on it.'??? Sounds like most conservative women.

Especially when there aren't any instances of them saying or doing anything kind-hearted.

:popcorn:

[Arkana]

82. Yeah, that's not a clarion call to shoot those who disagree with you.

At worst it's a catty comment about someone's appearance.

Sorry--you don't get to pull a South Park and equate the two, because they're not fucking equal.

[Zebedeo]

100. How about the Playboy article

by Guy Cimbalo stating that conservative women should be raped (or "hate-fucked" as he put it)? Do you support that sentiment, as well?

[devilgrrl]

104. Oh! Keep the hits coming! Surely something will stick.

:eyes:

Give it up.

[Overseas]

136. Who the heck is Guy Cimbalo? Not exactly a regular liberal commentator.

I can find lots of appalling misogynistic comments about all kinds of women, not just conservatives.

[Arkana]

141. Who?

Last time I checked, Guy Cimbalo was not in the upper echelons of important left-wing figures.

[WinkyDink]

155. Who is Guy Cimbalo? And it seems, by your repetition, that you kind of LIKED the language.

Else why foist it upon us here?

Chew on THAT.

[Zebedeo]

162. Are you engaging in projection?

Think about it.

And Playboy is definitely on the left. There's no denying it.

[WinkyDink]

172. Who chose the example?

[Zebedeo]

174. Who talked about "liking it?" n/t

n/t

[Occulus]

157. A *Playboy* article?

Seriously?

:rofl:

[Overseas]

135. That comment really stood out for its grossness. Not at all his norm.

He probably apologized for that comment.

Whereas, when a few brave people have called out Rush Limbaugh for a disgusting comment, they are the ones that have to apologize. Otherwise he'll include them in his next wave of derision.

Malkin, Coulter, Limbaugh, Savage and their ilk have made long lists of derogatory inflammatory comments. Those are the norm for them.

[eridani]

149. Which is exactly the same as telling his listeners to hunt her down and kill her

Not.

[socialist_n_TN]

56. Well, most of those comments...............

(and I've made a few myself) have been more in the vein of an observational nature. IOW, that's what happens when wealth gets concentrated too much. And historically, that's a true observation.

Now, if they want to take that as a threat, then maybe it'll cause somebody to THINK about what this kind of wealth concentration does and change it some. But I, nor anybody else that I've seen posting on these topics, have put a gunsight on the Koch brothers. MAJOR diff, don't you think?

[Arkana]

79. Let's see...

A bunch of anonymous people on a fucking internet message board (left)

vs.

dozens of conservative elected officials, radio and TV personalities, and otherwise important figures, not to mention the Speaker of the House and Senate Minority Leader (right).


WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK IS MORE RESPONSIBLE?!

[Zebedeo]

101. See posts 30, 66, 98, 100 n/t

n/t

[devilgrrl]

106. Don't bother with 30, 66, 98, or 100 - they're lame examples - if they can even be used as examples

:popcorn:

[Zebedeo]

111. Please explain

why these examples are lame. You saying it doesn't make it so.

I cited numerous examples of people on the left, including the President and Vice President, and the DCCC and the DLC, as well as liberal commentators such as Keith Olbermann, using violent imagery and terms to describe their political opponents. My point is that it occurs on both sides. That is undeniably true. You have utterly failed to refute this.

[devilgrrl]

114. As soon as you explain your deliberate obtusity...

None of the examples you cited comes within a light year of inciting someone to commit a violent act. Not even close!

[fascisthunter]

125. you lost big time

[readmoreoften]

126. So you're equating protest and overthrow of political systems with terrorist assassinations.

FAIL.

[WinkyDink]

154. There is NO equivalency between major media figures and politicians and mere

unknown civilians.

We are discussing the exhortations of a FORMER CANDIDATE FOR THE VICE-PRESIDENCY, not some invisible Internet poster from Unknownville.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

164. So.

It's not only religion.

Color me shocked.

[ScreamingMeemie]

33. This is going to be taken the wrong way, and I seriously don't mean for it to be...

but our habit of calling anyone who doesn't like, didn't vote for, or questions the policies of President Obama, a racist. It's not everyone...but then again, not every Republican is posting wanted posters. Just food for thought.

[devilgrrl]

37. To echo scarletwoman - how many name calling DUers have been on the news or talkshows?

We're talking out in the public here - the airwaves - print media - not internet bulletin boards.

[ScreamingMeemie]

43. It is not just DUers, I should have rephrased.

That said, I woke up this morning with one thought in mind. A 9 year old girl died because politics in this country have become vicious.

[devilgrrl]

48. Yes politics are vicious these days - I need to know what responsibility the left has in this?

Again, cite an instance of left-leaning media or politicians who incited violent acts.

Accusing one of being a racist isn't an act of violence.

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. I answered the OP query on rhetoric.

Our rhetoric can be extreme. Inciting violence, no? It's why I didn't address it. Inciting hatred? Yes. Is it as often as the R? No... but it is there. It's why I've pulled back from vehement support of anyone in the last few years. Google search senator and/or congressman accuses Republicans of racism and it's there.

[jeff47]

42. Calling someone a racist is in no way the same as calling for their death. (nt)

[ScreamingMeemie]

45. I was answering the OP, not speaking to inciting violence.

See where it says rhetoric up there? Have a good day. I knew this was going to be taken wrong.

[devilgrrl]

51. Comparing people who accuse others of racism isn't the same as calling for one's death.

I think your point has been effectively refuted I'm sorry to say.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. I think you all missed point where you stated "rhetoric" in the OP.

I think you are now being extremely obtuse, I'm sorry to say.

My only hope is that people remember this day, and that Sarah Palin becomes a housewife again.

[devilgrrl]

62. deleted headline...

I hope Palin goes back to being a housewife too.

[jeff47]

94. So...saying a racist is a racist is rhetoric that is "over the line"?

Um....no.

[moondust]

39. WikiLeaks is anti-government activity.

Deny it if you like but the fact remains. The shooter in Tucson may not be very partisan at all but was driven to act as he did by anti-government activities in general.

There is lots of government demonization by WikiLeaks supporters right here on DU.

[devilgrrl]

44. What does Wikileaks have to do with this?

Are you suggesting that people who back wikileaks will now storm the streets guns-a-blazing?

Sorry, I'm not getting your point?

[moondust]

50. Anti-government vitriol and demonization.

In the same sense that Sarah Palin didn't pull the trigger and the teabaggers and CNN didn't tell the guy to shoot anybody, the anti-government activities and government demonization of the far right are the backdrop to this tragedy as Sheriff Dupnik has clearly pointed out.

[fascisthunter]

55. Wikileaks is Whistleblowing on corruption within OUR government

we are not fucked up in the head to suggest the whole government be hated.... you are making shit up to defend the right wing rhetoric connected to this tragedy.

[moondust]

59. WikiLeaks is releasing classified information randomly.

Read John Kerry's comments about how WikiLeaks is not the same as the Pentagon Papers. Randomly releasing classified information is the intentional undermining of diplomacy and military operations--otherwise known as anti-government activities.

[fascisthunter]

64. all over the place.... Wikileaks is not telling people to hate the government

so to you we should have complete censorship and no transparency... you sound like the communists of the Soviet Union, ya know that? Pretty ironic while you defend the right wingers inciting hatred against politicians on a DAILY basis. You truly have no shame.

[moondust]

71. I've never defended a right winger.

You are just making shit up, sir, in your apparently delusional state.

[devilgrrl]

75. And what are you trying to accomplish?

What ever it is - it's not working.

[fascisthunter]

76. fail

[devilgrrl]

67. Oh no! Classified documents!

:wow:

Heavens to Betsy!!!!!

You mean finding out about international crimes committed under our name is wrong? GAWD forbid!!!!! :wow:

Now that I think of it. You're right - ignorance is bliss - and by golly, it should stay that way!

:eyes:

[devilgrrl]

57. Wikileaks is exposing malfeasance done under our names - I don't see where that's a problem.

Thank you for not being able cite a credible instance of left wing incendiary rhetoric or acts of violence.

:hi:

[moondust]

89. The fact remains...

WikiLeaks is not just "exposing malfeasance under our names." It is also exposing tons of other stuff including legitmiate diplomacy and that constitutes interference with delicate foreign relations, military, and other government activies.

I'm simply pointing out the fact that this is "anti-government activity" and expressly not equating it with Sarah Palin and teabaggera who incite violence. As far as the shooter in Tucson goes, we don't know at this point if he was prompted to do what he did by partisan rhetoric or anti-government activity in general.

But in your prejudice you're not buying it anyway and I know I'm wasting my time with this...

[WinkyDink]

159. Oh, brother. You're really trying to defend the indefensible. The question is : WHY?

[WinkyDink]

158. "Demonizing" War Criminals by revealing their deeds is a neat trick, ain't it?

[moondust]

175. When a U.N. war crimes tribunal starts issuing warrants...

I will start taking your hyperbolic "war crimes" claims seriously. They have access to WikiLeaks like everybody else.

[fascisthunter]

47. is wikileaks putting targets over politicians names

your efforts are disgustingly transparent

[scarletwoman]

49. Wikileaks is anti-Imperialism and anti-National Security State.

If you think Imperialism and the National Security State deserve to be protected, then make THAT argument.

Supporting Wikileaks has nothing to do with being anti-government.

[moondust]

52. That's only what you want it to be.

You have no control over how other people react. WikiLeaks and its supporters are clearly anti-government activists.

[devilgrrl]

60. So wikileaks is left-wing then?

And therefore is equal to Bill O'Reilly calling for the death of Dr. Tiller?




Enjoy your time trolling. :hi:

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[scarletwoman]

83. Bullshit. Horseshit. Utter crap.

Wikileaks releases information, period. It doesn't incite anyone to do anything. It doesn't promote violence, it doesn't make suggestions about "targets" or "enemies".

I find LOTS of what our government does completely indefensible and I've never hesitated to say so. That doesn't make me anti-government, it makes me anti-certain GOVERNMENT POLICIES.

The First Amendment gives every citizen the right to dissent. Dissenting is NOT anti-government -- unless you think the government is some kind sacred edifice that can never be questioned.

In a democracy WE are the government; we have the right to know what it's doing in our name, and to protest and attempt to change what it's doing -- because we actually BELIEVE in having a good government working on our behalf.

That's a far cry from the Libertarian philosophy of no government at all.

[Forkboy]

102. You are really reaching.

But if you insist on embarrassing yourself who I am to stop you?

[WinkyDink]

160. You simplify to the extreme.

[robdogbucky]

58. Wikileaks is a whistleblower

pulling the covers off of ongoing war crimes and lies by our government, much like The Most Dangerous Man In America did, Daniel Ellsberg.

This is a hate-infused assassination of a political enemy.

See the difference?




Hands off my Social Security!
Hands off Latin America!



rdb

[treestar]

61. Very good point. Though I was enjoying the fact that Julian was not

getting any attention today! He's probably holed up in that mansion fuming that the assassinations in Tuscon have nothing to do with him!

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[moondust]

69. Yes, poor Julian.

:cry:

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

73. more like poor pathetic right winger authoritarian fascists

and their weirdo-loose-screw listeners

[walldude]

81. So let me see if I have this straight..

Leaking classified government information is the same as saying:

"Don't retreat RELOAD"- Sarah Palin

"Liberals are a cancer that must be destroyed"- Glen Beck

"I want you Armed and Dangerous against taxes"- Michelle Bachmann

"If we get rid of liberals we solve our problems"- Sean Hannity

"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals by making them realize that they could be killed, too. Otherwise they will turn out into outright traitors."" Ann Coulter

Yeah.. right. Another DU'er using this tragedy to slam the "far left". Take that shit over to the freeps, they'll love it.

[Arkana]

84. Wikileaks doesn't advocating shooting conservatives. Nice try, dumbass.

[NYC Liberal]

180. "Anti-government" is NOT the same as "anti-THIS government"

"Anti-government" types hate the fundamental idea of government...any government.

Wikileaks has not come out against the very idea of government, but rather against the specific actions of a specific government.

[Batgirl]

68. "Fox News: The No. 1 Name in Murder Fantasies"

"Bill O'Reilly's recent "joke" about decapitating Washington Post columnist Dana Milbank was only the latest example of a demented Fox News culture that permits on-air personalities to fantasize about assassination and other forms of violence against those deemed enemies of the station, its personalities or their worldview.

During the cable channel's 2008 election coverage, in what she later called an attempt at humor, Fox News contributor Liz Trotta linked Osama bin Laden to Barack Obama as people who both should be assassinated:
And now we have what some are reading as a suggestion that somebody knock off Osama, uh Obama. Well, both, if we could.

A week before Trotta's "joke," Republican primary candidate Mike Huckabee was apologizing for his own Obama assassination quip. Addressing a gathering of the National Rifle Association, Huckabee joked that a loud thud heard backstage during his address was Barack Obama diving to the floor to avoid gun shots. Months later, Huckabee was given his own Fox News show.

With its biggest new star, Glenn Beck, Fox News hired a host well-known for on-air death fantasies--for instance, chattering about killing filmmaker Michael Moore with his bare hands and hoping out loud that Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D.-Ohio) would burn to death. In a Fox News skit in September 2009, Beck portrayed himself poisoning Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.


http://www.fair.org/blog/2010/11/10/fox-news-the-no-1-name-in-murder-fantasies/

[frogmarch]

74. I've quit saying that I

wouldn't feel bad if Palin fell into a glacier.

That was the worst thing I've heard any liberal I know say.

[devilgrrl]

77. That's creative. Mean-spirited perhaps but at least you put some thought into it.

:-)

[Rage for Order]

80. The DLC target map?

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171

[devilgrrl]

86. Targets (Bullseyes - not crosshairs) = Bush margin less than 10%.

You've got to be shitting me....

actually - I'm not surprised in the least.

[Rage for Order]

91. Bullseyes, targets, crosshairs...

[devilgrrl]

92. Now a poster from the early sixies featuring Malcolm X???? Yeah!!! Uh huh!!!! Sure!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

That's good!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Rage for Order]

96. Obviously not recent

But it shows that this type of rhetoric is nothing new in American politics. That doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with it, but it's incorrect to think that it's a recent phenomenon.

[tabasco]

129. What political office did Malcolm X hold?

I'm very curious.

[Igel]

145. It's humorous.

The bar started out as "rhetoric on the right" but when not too dissimilar rhetoric "on the left" was pointed out it changed. Of course, that ceded the point, but we overlook that.

The bar was moved to "prominent media voices on the right"--which is harder to match with "prominent media voices on the left" because the left doesn't have the same market penetration and breadth that the right has. In other words, it's like comparing the football teams from a school with 3000 students and one with 300 students. You have to pro rate it. Still, some misogyny, violent imagery, and nastiness was in evidence. So the bar was changed. Which effectively cedes that point, as well.

So the bar was moved to "political office-holders". Like that's what's important.

Eh. The pure must be ever so pure and their sins, by definition minor, forgiven, covered, and forgotten; the corrupt portrayed in as corrupt manner as possible, their sins, by definition enormous, must be made explicit and memorialized for all time because they are so very unforgiveable.

[tabasco]

183. Was Malcolm considered a leftist?

Did he support Democrats and stuff?

I thought he opposed JFK. Why would you consider him a leftist?

[Fuzz]

85. It's when Obama is asking for compromise and working together. So inflammatory 'n stuff.

[devilgrrl]

88. We have winner!!!!

:silly:

[Vinca]

90. This particular meme is really making me angry.

When lefties act up we march, carry signs, have a sit-in, chain ourselves to a fence or chant annoying ditties ("hey, hey, ho, ho, . . . yada, yada, yada). I can't think of one instance when someone from the left has turned up at a political rally with any type of weapon.

[devilgrrl]

95. Come now - words are mightier than the sword! Those protest signs were deadly!

:silly:

[Hansel]

118. Everytime I hear pundits cite examples they are from the 1960's and 70's

anti-war movement. That's pretty much an admission that they've got nothing. But they think it is clear equivalency to compare events from 40-50 years ago to today in order to create equivalency.

Or a bullet falling from the sky into a GOP campaign headquarters is equivalent to direct gun fire into a Democrat's headquarter.

[Warren DeMontague]

93. Here's one of my favorie examples of how "both sides" engage in "hateful, violent rhetoric"

Lets see.. Ann Coulter says that "Liberals should be beaten with baseball bats."

And Michael Moore says that "France has a better health care system than the United States".



See, the take-away here is that BOTH SIDES HAVE THEIR DANGEROUS, WILD-EYED, VIOLENCE PROMOTING EXTREMISTS!




...:eyes:

[Rocknrule]

99. We want Palin in jail. Her supporters want us dead.

Nuff said.

[Matariki]

112. I think it's time to say 'Fuck you" to anyone who uses the "both sides" meme.

It's pure out and out bullshit meant to deflect the fucking truth.

[upi402]

127. Fuck you CNN, FOX, even the women on MSNBC weekends and days

They are spinning and deflecting. They air Teabagger statements and thereby pushing that meme - that this shouldn't be politicized. Or that it's just this ONE crazy guy's fault.

NO WAY!

[Bluebear]

131. Here you go :)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=154802&mesg_id=154802

[upi402]

140. Coltrane must be spinnin'

that a fan could be this tone deaf to what's up. (Coltrane avatar of the OP of that willful blindness)

[mdmc]

132. worst person in the world comes to mind

but I'm from the left, the left that sees msm /msnbc as corporate interests looking to make a buck and f the working man..

[Overseas]

137. And whaddya know, it has indeed been toned down.

Keith has made it extra clear that the hyperbole is in jest by amending that segment a bit.

Top three conservative idiots of the day could be a substitute phrase.

[mdmc]

184. and the world changes..

I was really just tryin to say that the left is dead if GE (General Electric Incorporated) represents the left against right wing FOX.

[FogerRox]

142. Why is the left always getting shot and bombed?

Abortion clinics getting bombed, Abortion doctors getting shot, MLK, JFK, Bobby.

[HughBeaumont]

167. And mysteriously plane crashed.

[Cetacea]

173. I'd love to see a comparison chart of that one.

I can see the rationalizations already. "Liberals can't afford larger planes, so they crash more often in smaller ones."

[FogerRox]

178. Anthrax?

[Zax2me]

163. It's the finger pointing

Meaning, the left doesn't have mass murderers to clean up.
It is the 'he's a freeper' no, 'he's a liberal' going on here there and everywhere like a wildfire out of control.
All for a kid whacked out of his mind that is unable to process politics left or right with any clarity or sanity.
I think that is where the tone it down is coming from.

[NYC Liberal]

181. How many people on the left advocating shoot Republicans in the head

as a solution to their crimes?

Answer: NONE.

Those on the left have always advocated impeachment and/or a trial in a court of law and prison, and/or getting out the vote to vote them out at the ballot box as a solution.