Thanks to this new bill, Social Security privatization WILL be passed because Obama doesn't need

[Leopolds Ghost]

The Progressive caucus to pass it. They will all be released to vote against it,

knowing that no one in the Senate will dare to filibuster the Committee proposal
because massive cuts in Defense programs will accrue.

And administration supporters have the gall to say that the trigger cuts include
provisions that Obama can mark as accomplishments -- knowing that every element
in the trigger bill was described by the White House itself as unacceptable and
a punishment if Congress fails to reform Social Security.

All you need to know is that the only people you can appeal to affect what the
outcome will be, will be the 6 Democrats on the committee.

Depending on what they come up with, no one else will be able to stop it.

This is WORSE than if the debt cieling had not passed. This is proof that
Congress is a sham and does everything exactly in accordance with Wall St.

So let no one CLAIM that anyone other than those 6 congressmen matter, or
that we should turn to anyone else (least of all the Progressive Caucus,
whose votes have already been released) for help.

[Big Blue Marble]

1. So much is being lost by the passage of this deal.

And we will not know the full ramifications or the impact for months or even years to come.

[johnaries]

2. Congress still has to vote on it. There's no way privatization would pass.

[Leopolds Ghost]

4. The probem is that a trigger mechanism in THIS bill goes in effect to punish the country if vote no

And what's worse, Obama's negotiators stuffed all the sweeteners for the liberal side of the aisle into the TRIGGER mechanism so that they can say they voted for it, even though the whole purpose of the trigger mechanism is to frighten the American people with the prospect of something Obama intends to campaign against as an unacceptable disaster for the American People. it's hostage taking just like the debt ceiling.

[JCMach1]

3. Exactly, this is Wall Street's bill

[JDPriestly]

5. I would not vote for any member of Congress who voted for this bill.

Every Democrat that voted it should face a primary challengers who points out that the Democrat did not have the courage to take the responsibility for making the tough decisions on the cuts.

This is a dereliction of the duty of a member of Congress.

[Leopolds Ghost]

7. Here's a list of those who voted:

Party affiliation is not specified but you can look for your own Congressman.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1638222&mesg_id=1638390

Based on the following post it appears a majority of the Tea Party voted for it.

[Horse with no Name]

6. Seriously. What was accomplished with this charade

is...that we lost our republic and we seem to have an illiberal democracy in its place (I am being generous) and possibly on the way to full-blown fascism.

Hopefully once people are aware of what has happened here and the overreach of power will be addressed by Constitutional means. One thing for certain, if we don't do SOMETHING about this...we won't recognize this country in 5 years.

[napi21]

8. You're WRONG on that! SS & Medicare are exempted from the

auto trigger. If you're going to spread stories, at least make sure you read everything about the issue before you put your fingers to the keys.

[Leopolds Ghost]

10. the White House press release describes the trigger as a mechanism to punish Congress.

It's described as an unacceptable alternative that will ensure passage of whatever the commission comes up with.

That's how Obama views it, anyway, regardless of whether we see defense cuts as positive (you know that Republicans would absolutely sweep the floor with Democrats if a D-created trigger went into effect that included steep defense cuts, Medicare provider cuts and not much else -- a trigger that Obama will campaign against as an extortion tactic just like the Tea Party did with the debt cieling saying that it is an unacceptable alternative and telling Republicans not to throw us into that briar patch because Democrats would be hurt as a result.)

[napi21]

13. He has a valid point that the Pubs would freak about the defense cuts.

I would agree to a point. I remember, during the Clinton admin., and my son was in the Navy. He was stationed at Whidby Island and his job was repairing radios. He was always upset because they could never get the money to buy the parts so he could do his job. I sure don't know how much of a cut is too much, but there is a breaking point.

Cuts to medicare providers can mean a lot of things. Recently I saw a report about providers doing duplicate tests. The clained they were just doing the second one to validate the first one, but if I were paying the bills, I wouldn't pay for that second one either! There are a lot of similar things that could be done with medicare on the provider side without lowering the amount they pay the docs for ligitimate care.

[indurancevile]

16. do you have a link?

[dennis4868]

9. AND THE HYPERSPECULATION...

continues at DU

[pnwmom]

11. One more proclamation backed by no evidence. n/t

[Control-Z]

12. "This is WORSE than if the debt cieling (sic) had not passed."

Go ahead, school me on the merits of going into default. About the only thing we have going for us right now is low interest rates. What do you think would happen to those if the debt ceiling wasn't raised? That is to name just one of the almost immediate repercussions.

This deal may not be good. It may be terrible. But there are still possibilities - ways to work with or around it. A default would guarantee a financial disaster that would kill Social Security along with everything else that costs money.

[cliffordu]

14. Ah, bullshit. Print one fucking fact to support your bogus fucking posit.

[Leopolds Ghost]

15. As another poster noted, what will people do when the commission report comes?

a) Complain about how we have no option but to accept it, because of this bill.

b) Say don't worry, the alternative (trigger mechanism) is not as bad as Obama is making it out to be

(which would be attacked by folks like the person above claiming that we are naive and default would be far worse, so we should take it and like it)

c) More likely, they will support it and say you have always been for Social Security and Medicare reform,

but that it took Obama to bring the party around to a sensible position on the issue and eliminate the 3rd rail.

[cliffordu]

22. ......And yet, we have no answer to the question I asked......

[demwing]

17. Good

because if Social Security IS killed, there will be a political revolution.

Voters of all ages will reject the corporate sell outs from both parties, and we can commence building a Democratic Progressive Party, and finally begin to create a real across the board network of social programs, including single payer health care.

I hate to say so, but if this is the catastrophe you expect, then let's use the energy to take back the country.

[Leopolds Ghost]

18. I heard that argument before the Iraq War

From one of the 2002 march organizers.

"Of course we won't stop the war. (this was way back before the Congressional and UN vote) but it'll be a big disaster and radicalize the American people." I have yet to see that happen...

[demwing]

21. apples to oranges

On one side we have "national defense" on the other, we have Grandma's life-line

Which do you think will create a bigger outrage?

I don't want Soc Sec to die, but if it does we're talking people in the streets like this country has never seen.

[Mojorabbit]

19. It will ruin the Dem Brand which is unforgivable. nt

[demwing]

20. I don't WANT Soc Sec to die

but if it does, use it