We're not bemoaning the lack of Civility - We're staring at actual Violence

[Tom Rinaldo]

We're not reacting to insults, rudeness, and to calling opponents derogatory names. We're responding to incitement, rebellion, and to calling opponents traitors to America. It's not four letter words hurled at people that we are worried about, it's the advocacy of and use of force to intimidate, silence, and potentially eliminate opponents that alarms us.

We are well past worrying about civility. We just witnessed a violent assassination attempt against a United States Congresswoman. It followed on the heels of a steadily intensifying drumbeat of threats of force, justification of force, and the use of literal force to bully and harass those who the Right in America chooses to oppose. It follows a coordinated effort to smear the government of the people, by the people, and for the people, as a government against the people. It follows calls to take up arms if ballots fail to deliver the results wanted, and it follows the explosive growth of right wing militias conducting war games in preparation for a war against the Federal Government.

Calling upon Miss Manners to lecture "both sides" on proper political etiquette is a delusional response to a real and potent threat. Either that or it is a deliberate smokescreen employed to obscure a growing danger to our nation and the very fabric of our Democracy.

[Johonny]

1. We have an actual study by government saying this was likely to happen

and we now have a dead abortion doctor and a group of citizens at a political event shot up. Yet the same people that incite violence are the same ones that laughed at the report.

I fine with Dems in Congress that say I get it our side will monitor more closely our rhetoric. I'm all for personal responsibility. I just wonder when the media and pundits who's shows the political figures are most likely to air these views on and state them themselves will take the same step.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. Elected Democrats sort of have an obligation to show leadership in calming the nation.

And they have both a political and to an extent moral need to at least remain open to positive relations and reasonable cooperation with their Republican colleagues.

The media however has a different set of responsibilities and there is no excuse for them not connecting the dots about what has been happening on the Right since at least the 2008 election.

[Johonny]

8. Seems to me the dots connect

a long way back. As people pointed out there was a ton of violence talk in Texas prior to Kennedy being shot. The build up of violence in speech and in reality against abortion doctors has been going on for 30+ years. I find it hard to believe some media outlets are so easy to give us once again "both sides same". We hear the same excuse over and over, yet the same people that promote violence get lots of TV time and more people seem to die...

[Skidmore]

2. You can't just react without

solutions. I keep looking for proaction. Anger begets anger and fear begets fear. They feed off of each other and spiral out of control. I have been saying for years on these forums that we need to find a constructive solutions for our nation before we lose it. I stand by my belief. If that is construed as social etiquette, so be it. I see reconnecting to our fellow citizens as our only lifeline as a nation, otherwise we are divided irreparably.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. I favor social etiquette. But that calls for calling out those who demonize fellow citizens

It can be done with reasoned speach, often it is most powerful that way. But true social etiquette demands that unacceptable behavior be acknowledged for what it is, unacceptable. It is not good social etiquette to gloss over a threat so that no one feels uncomfortable being singled out for dangerous behavior that they singularly are engaged in.

[Skidmore]

4. I agree with you that bad behavior should be called out and denounced.

I would point out that we should simultaneously extend ourselves to those who are willing to step forward and meet us in a joint effort to unite the nation. We cannot keep pulling away from each other over political ideology when there are areas in which we have common cause. Those who are most vocal are at the fringe of the right. Why we are letting them control the national dialogue, I don't know.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. And I hope there will be an opening now for what you call for

But it can't happen with one side willfully in denial.

[TheKentuckian]

10. Some things must not be "reconciled with". What is most irresponsible is allowing

all that many have sacrificed and died for be pissed away in a generations span in an attempt to appease those who have ever striven to prevent each step toward becoming that "more perfect Union".

Even going half way lead to acceptance of much that does harm to the people and generates much entropy. These same sort has been with us throughout written history, we aren't fixing to have some moment of nirvana with them.

Your aim is admirable but hard to describe as a practical prime directive considering the experiences of generation upon compounded generation.
Placating and giving into them does not purchase perspective but only encourages them to become more outlandish, crazy, and cruel.
Clearly it this isn't "our only lifeline" since we are here and such moments are rare, if ever occurring throughout history any nation, race, or creed.

On this one must be a super long incrementalist because based on where we are now and how long it takes to eliminate recessive behaviors and/or genes best case scenario is gradual reduction.

[mmonk]

5. It's about eliminationism.

The arguments we are seeing are about something else and is indeed, a false equivalency.

[fascisthunter]

9. I Think It's Deliberate

[Supersedeas]

11. but Jon Stewart and Howie Kurtz don't want us to conflate vitriolic political rhetoric with

vitriolic political actions (like assassinations)


Vitriolic rhetoric is just fun crazy talk that people do on the television (its fun to them, so let them have their fun)....that it might lead to vitriolic political action---eh, why worry.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. It's actually pretty simple

We can agree on the need to strongly tone down dehumanizing political rhetoric. We can agree that threats of the use of force, even veiled threats of that nature, should have no place in our nation's political dialogue and all who partake of them should be strongly condemned and even prosecuted when that is appropriate. We can agree that calls and acts to resist the U.S. Government through the use of force are treasonous. And we can ask the Right to join us in agreeing to all of the above.

The trick is to break out the specifics into distinct catagories and then we can all agree to cooperatively look for where transgressions emerge. I strongly suspect that it is only in category One that even a rough equivelency between the left and right can be found.

[Supersedeas]

13. Great points Tom