Freedom of Speech - A slight tangent on the Vile Rhetoric

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

Okay,

We have Freedom of Speech! YAY!

I personally dislike it is synonymous with choice of expression (I don't like you! = You're a goddamned motherfucking cocksucker ass sucker')

But Freedom of Speech is NOT OPEN to any/all speech (we usually say can't shout FIRE! in a theater)

Limits freely placed on Freedom of Speech:

*Libel/Slander
*Inciting a riot
*Obstruction of Justice
*Perjury
*Committing Fraud

and then business related add-ons like bashsing your boss/company on a social medium.

That's my quick list.

Others?

(Just trying to counter some 'oh yeah, well I have FREEDOM of Speech'.. and I want to say 'yes, but...'

[Drale]

1. Lying needs to be added to that list

it would probably kill the repuke party.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

2. I think lying without benefit or gain is protected.

[Davis_X_Machina]

3. No fraud or perjury, or false statements under oath

...generally, then no problem.

If lying were a crime, there'd not be a husband in America not in the joint.

And incitement to riot only if limited, extremely limited, as per Brandenburg v. Ohio. Incitement statutes were used routinely to cripple both the anti-war movement and the civil rights movement.

Freedom isn't free, as some folks on the other side are fond of constantly reminding us, and life in a small-d democracy isn't going to be completely peaceful, or completely risk-free, ever.

[Drale]

4. Ok let me rephrase

Lying in the political arena or better yet, how about politicians are seen as always under oath?

[Davis_X_Machina]

5. What is the 'political arena'?

How do you give such a term legal meaning? Who prosecutes? Who has the power to initiate a prosecution?

We've got people on these boards who, e.g. under this law, would have removed Obama from office a year ago, over some interpretations of statements he made re supporting the public option.

There's a ballot box. Works at least as fast as the law, and is fairer to boot. The people are prosecutor judge and jury then.

For a place named 'Democratic Underground;, there's precious little faith or belief in small-d democracy to be found here sometimes.

If the laws we have now are enough to save us, none ever will be.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

6. How can you tell when a politician or lawyer is lying?

Their lips are moving.

Sigh.

[Davis_X_Machina]

7. I expect them to lie.

Everyone expects them to lie. And has, for millenia. They don't want honest, they want effective. Not since ancient Athens, and the days of Aristides the Just.

It is said that, on this occasion, (a balloting for ostracism) an illiterate voter, who did not know Aristides, came up to him, and giving him his voting potsherd, desired him to write upon it the name of Aristides. The latter asked if Aristides had wronged him. "No," was the reply, "I do not even know him, but it irritates me to hear him everywhere called 'the Just'."

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