What evidence or facts do we have that the shooter was inspired by the right?

[Rocknrule]

Despite claims from both sides, his official political stance remains fuzzy. I think the damage control overdrive mode that the Republicans are in now speaks volumes. But what about this guy implies that he was without a doubt a right-winger, as opposed to just another non-politically motivated nutjob like the Virginia Tech gunman?

[bigendian]

1. Some people think I am a RW because of the way I look. EOM

Just goes to show that a feeling is all you need.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

2. Who cares? IT'S A WAKE-UP CALL.......

If not now, when?

[mzmolly]

3. We don't. All we know is that the right wing TRIED to inspire people like him.

eom

[uppityperson]

10. indeed. We don't know who he listened to or read, but the rw tries to inspire people like him

[mzmolly]

18. Remember when Frank Schaeffer said they were "trolling for assassins?"

They were. And, one assassin bit. Here's a reminder of what Frank Schaeffer said on this months ago.

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-show-frank-schaeffer-how-hate

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Actually we do

the list of books was posted... extensive, strange.

Among other things... were things like Animal Farm, Alice in Wonderland... The Shidarata. Mein Kampft, and The Communist Manifesto... I think F-451 was there too.

He is also associated with American Renaissance, a white power, RIGHT WING group, and he believed in Icke's theories, and a few other lovely... things... that tend to be on the FAR RIGHT.

Here for Am. Renaissance

http://www.amren.com/

Fair warning... place is swill.

I will say this... yes he is disturbed... but he is also a right wing RANDIAN... LIbertarian.

[mzmolly]

24. I'm a fan of Animal Farm and Orwell.

I'm not a right wing fanatic.

I don't doubt that he was a right-winger, but I do think at this point, it's debatable.

Thanks nadinbrzezinski. :hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. But I am sure you do not have ties

to American Renaissance or any other White Supremacist movement, do you?

It is not the readying list, it is the context of a life.

[mzmolly]

36. I don't

of course. If he's found to be a white supremacist I'll change my "we don't" assertion, quickly. While I don't doubt you, I'm waiting for definitive information on this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Blog you may want to follow

Fox by the way played up this link.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/jared-laughner-gabrielle-giffords-shooter_n_806229.html

Oh and Pokerfan has the link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=169381&mesg_id=169592

[mzmolly]

56. Oh boy.

I guess we'll know soon enough. Thanks for the heads-up nadinb.

[Richard Steele]

4. "his official political stance remains fuzzy"? In what sense, Charlie?

Seriously dude, WTF?

[WinkyDink]

27. Dang, I've missed that expression!

[Richard Steele]

55. The guy SHOT A POLITICIAN IN THE HEAD, and he didn't choose his target at RANDOM.

I think his "political motivations" are pretty fucking EVIDENT.

Funny how some folks here are grasping at straws
to distract us from a FACT that is clear to all, innit?

[mzmolly]

63. Admittedly I laughed at this comment - "In what sense, Charlie?"

That was good. ;)

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Because he has tied to American Renaissance

http://www.amren.com/

Here, have fun with the swill. Oh and the right is busy making these lovely individuals well you know socialists.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rex]

7. Having an association to a known RWing hate group helps cull the odds.

The rest we will know in time.

[Truth2Tell]

8. The threads with details of

the litany of circumstantial evidence are all over DU.

Maybe you should read a bit first before you post dumb questions. :shrug:

[Skittles]

9. his obsession with the Constitution is a huge...well, RED flag

[WingDinger]

11. I believe that is somewhat academic. The real question is, how did eliminationist rhetoric influence

Vulnerable souls, to act. Whether or not we can substantively ascertain whether or not he is right or left becomes at the end, a judgment call. But the summer of hate, and all it's evil effects, are no judgment call. They are HISTORY. That is all. The ideology of a dissociated paranoid schizophrenic is of less importance, other than it's clinical interest. The triggers were and are given by right wing, and their steering of the tea party.

[Merlot]

12. It doesn't matter what his political beliefs were

He was mentally unstable and susceptible to suggestions of violence which were provided by the right wing talking heads, They made it ok.

[gulliver]

13. He doesn't have to be a right winger for the right to be responsible...

...and I'm not saying that they are yet. The gun itself wasn't a right winger, and of course it's not responsible. A mentally ill guy who doesn't even know left from right politics is just like the gun. He could have simply attacked Democrats because the nice man on TV said Democrats were out to destroy the country. No thought deeper in his head than the gun had in its.

[OnionPatch]

52. I don't think it matters much, either.

The point is that we have politicians, elected officials even, basically announcing to people that it's OK to use violence (or second amendment remedies, etc.) to get their way politically when democracy doesn't go their way. That these blowhards are all on the right is significant in many ways, but the simple reality is that this kind of violent rhetoric goes out to all ears, left, right and in-between, and legitimizes political violence of all origins.

[seabeyond]

14. books link... individual against govt... tea. gold silver.... tea. unconstitution... tea

anti abortion... tea. language issue control by govt... tea. on edit add.... anti immigatration... tea. anti semitic.... tea

help me out where you have a tough time with this.

[Rocknrule]

19. Calm down, I haven't had a huge amount of time to research

what they've dug up on this guy

[seabeyond]

22. calm down? you asked a question. i gave you an answer. that simple. nt

[seabeyond]

35. and then the really obvious, he shoots a dem congresswoman with teabagger crosshairs. nt

[glinda]

26. Speculation but those are things associated with Right Wing and or Teabag.

[seabeyond]

30. yes. nt

[rucky]

15. He doesn't fit neatly into any box

except for the mass murderer box. He had his own incoherent paranoias, but he planned this for weeks so I don't think the mental illness defense would hold up. Some of his theories were amplified and twisted from the already twisted Ron Paul-ish brand of libertarianism.

[EFerrari]

16. Go scan this OP that OneAngryDemocrat put up.

It's a portrait of this guy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x169306

[rustydog]

17. He does not have to agree with any side. He simply needs to be

unbalanced, looking for a way to vent his frustration, mistrust and anger. Perhaps hearing the vitriol, hearing the nomenclature, seeing candidates shooting automatic weapons while stating their opponent needs to be "taken out", Glenn Becks musings about murdering Michael Moore, poisoning Nancy Pelosi, Rushbo calling for the murder of liberals, but not all of them, leave a couple alive... 2nd amendment remedies, locking and loading, reload don't retreat...

It is not a stretch to believe the hate messages from the right could have influenced the shootings. if is were a far-fetched leap, why is the right so loud in their denial of the sheriff's condemnation of some in the media. not the right wing media, some in the media.

[Nye Bevan]

21. Off to the worstest page with you (nt)

[El Supremo]

23. He's a schizo, dammit!

Are all Repukes schizos? No, just fucked up.

[Motown_Johnny]

25. .

We know he met Rep. Gifford in the past and asked her some question that made no sense to the person who witnessed it. He then voiced some displeasure with Rep. Gifford because she "didn't get it".

We know he has youtube videos out that parrots right wing paranoia about things like government mind control and only using money backed by gold and silver.

We know there is some loose association with a right wing anti-Semitic hate group (or we know that some loose association has been alleged, I will admit no solid proof here)


We know he has trouble grasping reality so he would therefore be more likely to believe the right wing's lies than most.

We know that his primary target was someone Sarah Palin had listed as someone who should be targeted and had a cross hairs symbol on a map over her district.

[joe_sixpack]

28. You make a good point.

Before all the victims had even been transported, and before the blood was even dry, everyone is frantically searching for some thin little thread they can pull at, or some connection they can make to assign blame to an opposing group or faction. And it all happens so fast these days, while most of us still haven't gotten over the initial shock of this terrible thing that happened and all the lives that were affected by this one act of lunacy and evil.

[Richard Steele]

54. Bullshit. Thanks for your concern. nm

[pokerfan]

29. Department of Homeland Security

According to a law enforcement memo based on information provided by DHS and obtained by Fox News, Jared Loughner, the alleged shooter of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, may have been influenced by a pro-white racist organization that publishes an anti-immigration newsletter.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201101100007

Non-political? YHGTBFKM! In his own handwriting, from papers found at his house, Loughner called it an assassination.

[WinkyDink]

31. A would-be assassin shoots a Democratic politician who had been named as a target. Let me think.

[PufPuf23]

32. My conclusion is that the shooter was a RW Randian libertarian.

Anti-authoritarian (and paranoid of government) and can be divided into Ayn (atheist) or Ron (christian); evidently, Loughner was atheist.

Still no excuse at all for action. Not a mentally stable young man is obvious but also of the sort of the divisive and lying BS in TV and radio constantly. High Ugly. I expect more violence sadly. Vietnam era got more violent. The nation will have a paradigm shift on scale independence, civil war or wwII.

[cynatnite]

33. It seems like he went from one extreme to the next...

I don't see how anyone can nail it down to being one or other.

[sufrommich]

37. I agree. nt

[seabeyond]

38. read post 14. how do you get that. really

not being snarky, just asking. i am only seeing one direction with everything we have so far. i am not seeing how he can be on the other side.

[cynatnite]

43. Here is how I see it...

Well, we've had plenty of extreme lefty types with anti-government sentiment. I don't think that belongs only to one side. I know plenty of Dems who are anti-abortion. In fact, we've got a lot of blue dog dems that are anti-abortion.

The gold/silver stuff and the language is another extreme going to the right. He's anti-semitic and anti-immigration from what we've learned so far.

As I said...I think he goes from one extreme to the other. I think that's why we hear so much about his instability. He could very well have a bi-polar disorder for all we know.

[seabeyond]

44. so.... you chose to see he goes both ways (grinnin) chosing what is obviously rw

anti govt and anti abortion as being his left wing swing.

bah hahhaa

k

not laughing at you, just funny the going both ways and swing part....

nah. i will stick with consistency since that is more normal than the bi polar.

but thanks for the explanation

[cynatnite]

47. I've seen people like this who go from one extreme to the other...

There is no middle for them at all. They have to be medicated to get a handle on it.

You can laugh, but there are mentally disturbed people like this. People like this are usually homeless and unemployed. They are sorely misunderstood and it's tragic.

[seabeyond]

48. yes, and their delusions shouldnt be fed to hate, and kill. nt

[cynatnite]

49. Agreed. n/t

[Pancho Sanza]

40. Has anyone suggested the shooting was motivated by anti-Semitism?

It crossed my mind on Saturday morning but have not heard any more evidence for that than of a political nature...
:shrug:

edited for stupid spelling error

[Rex]

51. That is my actual thoughts on this, time will tell.

[deutsey]

41. I do think this guy was deranged and in a reality all his own. However,

he does seem to have some similarities, thematically, with far right types re: the Constitution, gov't being bad and tyrannical, the monetary system vs. using gold and silver.

Still, I think he was obviously in a realm of craziness that goes beyond the nuttiness of the Tea Party, rightwing, or even the loonier aspects of the left.

[jeff47]

42. Well...

There's the anti-government rants, the rants regarding "liberty", the gold standard rants, and the conspiracy theories about government mind control. While obviously not "right in the head" such arguments aren't made on the left.

Also, be cautious about jumping to conclusions based only on his odd writing style. His belief that the government is mind-controlling people through grammar means he's explicitly using odd syntax to twart the government's efforts. On the other hand, feel free to jump to conclusions based on his belief that the government is mind-controlling people through grammar.

[Texasgal]

45. It doesn't matter!

The highly inflamed political rhetoric is the issue here. The absolute HATE, the CROSS HAIRS the RELOAD comments are causing our country to become so polarized that ANYONE will think it's OKAY to assassinate a politician. Left, right ...lib whatever. The HATE TALK... the we hate our elected officials talk. It's POLARIZING. We can expect more of this if the rhetoric doesn't calm down. Period.

That's the REAL ISSUE.

[-..__...]

46. His hair style (or lack thereof)...

The Crosshairs connection works pretty good too.

[Fleshdancer]

50. I'm still trying to figure out why he shaved his eyebrows

He looks like Uncle Fester. :scared:

[Fuzz]

57. Well, for one, he didn't try to assassinate McCain.

[moondust]

58. His head was full of anti-government junk.

About 99% of the anti-government junk in existence comes from the political Right, many of whom boldly advertise their hatred of the government. Saturday morning he decided to act on his anti-government obsession.

[Kaleva]

59. I think he was in a world of his own making.

[brettdale]

60. he went after a dem

Im guessing he was inspired by hate like beck and palin.

[TheKentuckian]

61. Because a trillion lame fuckers are in every form of media spinning and doing

the false equivalency dance.

[CrawlingChaos]

62. upon further investigation...

taking down the image as it may be of dubious origin. Sorry.

[Rex]

65. Would you please start a thread about this?

That might quite down a few individuals.

[Vickers]

64. You concern is noted. n/t