Lawmakers to head off picketing at Tucson funerals (related to 9 year old's funeral)

[steve2470]

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/southwest/view/20110111lawmakers_to_head_off_picketing_at_tucson_funerals/srvc=home&position=recent

PHOENIX — Arizona legislators planned to consider emergency legislation Tuesday to head off picketing by a Topeka, Kan., church at the funeral service for a 9-year-old girl who was among six people killed during Saturday’s shooting in Tucson.

The proposed law would prohibit protests at or near funeral sites.

It would take effect immediately if passed by the Legislature and signed into law by Gov. Jan Brewer.

Legislative aides said the bill appeared to be on track for quick passage, and Brewer spokesman Paul Senseman said the Republican governor would sign the bill if it reaches her desk

[emulatorloo]

1. GOOD! THANK YOU

[Ikonoklast]

2. Getting near that First Amendment territory.

Not a good thing to stifle unpopular speech as those same laws might be used against you one day.

[JimGinPA]

3. I Think I'd Be Willing To Relinquish My Right To Protest Funerals nt

[Gamow]

4. +1 nt

[Ikonoklast]

6. But I wouldn't.

I won't willingly surrender my rights for anyone.

[cbdo2007]

7. How so? I don't see Congress mentioned anywhere in the article.

[Ikonoklast]

10. You have states and local governments passing laws restricting speech.

Not a good thing to do, in any event.

This is what those crazy people want, it is exactly what they live for.

They should be allowed to protest, and the vast majority of Americans should turn our backs on them, shun them completely, act as if they are invisible.

That eats them alive. Publicity is what they want.

Don't give it to them.

[cbdo2007]

13. The First Amendment doesn't say anything about

states and local governemnts passing laws restricting speech.

They did do this for 10 years before most people noticed and it became front page news. They're millionaires with nothing better to do, so ignoring them isn't going to help anything.

Free speech doesn't mean you get to say whatever you want, whenever you want, to whoever you want. There are already restrictions protecting people against libel and slander and yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater. This is the same thing as yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater - both are meant to cause chaos.

[Ikonoklast]

16. The Constitution and Federal laws trump state laws.

Your city council cannot pass a law keepinng you from speaking in front of them on an issue, unless they want to be sued.

Your First Amendment rights trump any city statute that would keep you from speaking your piece.

They can tell you that you have three minutes to make your case, or that the meeting is to be held at eight at night, but you still get to have your say.

And speech you disagree with doesn't automatically become 'hate speech'.

Otherwise, Westboro would have been done years ago.

[Tsiyu]

35. Why would anyone want to protest at a dead person's grave?

i mean, if that's your line in the sand, WTF?

To me, provoking the grieving should be illegal. I abhor what Cheney has done, but I'm not going to prove anything by showing up to harrass his family when he dies. And there's nothing I could say at his funeral that i can't say anywhere else if I need to say it that badly.

Free speech should be protected, but not when it trumps someone's freedom to bury their dead in peace.

Claiming this as something you won't give up seems rather cold and immature to me, whether you can parse it as a "right" or not..

[cbdo2007]

39. Right....that's the key here - one person's freedom over someone elses.

The families have rights too, to not be harrassed and victimized and slandered. Really, is it not slander to hold up a sign that says "God hates fags" when protesting a funeral? For one thing, they aren't protesting the funeral, they are protesting the government who is not represented by the funeral or the people in the funeral. Secondly, it's slander because in their protest, they are somehow linking a 9 year old girl to "fags", when they don't know if she even had an opinion about "fags" or not so are they implying she's a "fag"? By associating her with "god" or "fags" it is slander.

I love all the people rushing out to protect the first amendment but not the individual rights of the citizens of the United States, such as a right to not be harrassed.

[Tsiyu]

43. I love it, too

but those folks will get a rude awakening if they ever try to exercise their "rights' in a court of law.

We as a society have determined that in certain places, you do not have an absolute right to free speech. if you try yelling "God hates Fags" in your local general sessions courtroom, the bailiff will be happy to escort you to your jail cell where you'll await processing for those contempt of court charges you just brought on yourself.

And the woman who shouted "Except Obama; Help us Jesus" in the House last week was not allowed to remain and was arrested.

there are certain places you have to keep your big mouth shut, and a funeral should be one of them.
\\On edit; on second thought...

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. They did it here for 10+ yrs and the city of Topeka as well as the state tried to shut them up

Every attempt to legislate against the Phelps has failed.

You can't take away their rights to free speech. You don't need to approve of what they are saying. They have the right to say it.

[damntexdem]

32. Wrong! Funerals should not be fair game.

I don't care who died.

[madinmaryland]

40. When does free speech become harrassment?

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. Good, then let the courts overturn it after the funeral nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. While on it's face might seem ilegal, freedom of speech

that same question is before the Supreme Court, so it may very well pass legal muster.

Oh and it goes without saying that protesting at a funeral should be a no-no, kind of a no-brainer.

[KansasVoter]

25. I am a strong ACLU fan but I can handle 300 feet.....

And they are still welcome to protest outside the cemetery.
But for everyone who wants to ban them from the city, you need to rethink that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. The law in MO was 1000 feet and it was thrown out in court

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. We will see in the current lawsuit

I can see a standard that sets this at 1000 feet to be a good compromise. Allows the families to grieve and the counter protesters to go to town (in a peaceful way) on these guys. Remember point and laugh works best.

I am thinking a KINGON and Star Fleet Honor Guard would work...

:-)

[Truth2Tell]

8. Wrong approach. This is what they want.

This is how you let the terrorists win.

[littlewolf]

9. how about letting them protest 1000 yards (or more)

away from the site .... they can still protest .... Their speech isn't hindered at all ....

[pinboy3niner]

12. It would prohibit protests within 300 feet

More from the story:

Sinema, who said she is the lead sponsor of the Senate’s version of the bill, said the Arizona legislation is modeled on an Ohio law that was upheld by the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. The U.S. Supreme Court heard an appeal from the Westboro church in October and is expected to issue a decision by late spring.

The four-paragraph Arizona bill would make it a misdemeanor to picket or conduct other protest activities within 300 feet of a funeral or burial service from one hour before the event to one hour after.

Sinema said the prohibition would only apply to funeral and burial sites because courts have struck down picketing prohibitions for procession routes.

[littlewolf]

15. ok 300 feet work for me .... hope the local jail can hold all Fred brings. nt

[Ikonoklast]

21. This is reasonable, safety for all could be a valid reason.

The nuts get to rant and spew their hate, and rational people get to ignore them and bury their dead.

But those that want Westboro to lode their right to picket are on a very slippery slope.

[jwirr]

11. Make their free speech zone in the next town.

[Major Hogwash]

14. Oh, hell, let 'em protest, freedom of expression and freedom of religion is what made us a great

nation at protesting at our own military funerals!!

These scumbags should be stopped in their tracks.
They are the most hated family in the entire country, and they like it that way!!
Their "church" should be declared null and void, and have its tax-free status lifted, because all they do is preach hate!!

[riderinthestorm]

17. Who funds West Baptist Church? Serious question.

It takes money to fly all over the country protesting at the drop of a hat. Clearly they aren't working since they have time to fly everywhere, anytime. But someone's paying their airfare and providing them the funds to live and survive. I really want to know who.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Lawsuits

They sue everyone they tangle with. And they almost always win.

The Phelps may be hateful and crazy but they aren't stupid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. AZ legislature ignores the 1st amendment

Not smart.

We tried that in Kansas, where the Phelps assholes are from. Missouri tried it also. Courts threw the laws out.

Remember the 1st amendment protects even the speech we don't approve of.

[Xithras]

22. Maybe, but....

The funeral will be in a few days. If they time it right, the Phelps clan will be unable to get the law overturned in time to protest a CHILDS FUNERAL. So long as the law is on the books as the funeral is occurring, the local LEO's will have the authority to chase them off.

Even if it gets overturned after the fact, it will have accomplished its goal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. And they will take it all the way to the Supreme Court until the law is thrown out

which it will be. Then the Phelps will sue the state of AZ and/or local LE and they will win that case as well.

So the goal of keeping them away from these funerals carries a high cost.

The best solution, IMO, and the one that seems to work the best with no legal ramifications, is having a wall of people separate the Phelps from the funeral attendees. They did that recently in two towns in this area. I also like the motorcycle folks (Patriot Riders) who surround the funeral and drown out the Phelps' nasty chants.

[Xithras]

29. A cost worth paying, IMHO.

So he pulls a small settlement afterward...who cares?

The goal is simply to keep him away from these protests. Even if it's thrown out in a week, it will have served its purpose and done what it needed to do.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Small?

LOL

I wouldn't bet on it.

[JimGinPA]

19. Everyone In Tucson Not Attending The Funeral...

Should fill balloons with urine and drive by to welcome the "protesters".

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. And the balloon throwers would be charged with assault

Take it from those of us who live in Kansas. If what you do to disagree with them is illegal or a violation of their free speech rights, they will take you to court. And they usually win.

[JimGinPA]

27. I Was Being Satirical, However...

If you had a parade of cars go by with their license tags covered, it seems like it would be hard to identify anyone to sue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. True but I would bet on the Phelps figuring out who you are

Years ago I had a friend who lived in Topeka and his brother from back east came to visit him. They were driving down the street, saw the Phelps and brother rolled down his window and yelled something at them. Within days, both men began receiving calls and faxes from the Phelps, both at home and at work. And one of them lived on the east coast and was just a passenger in a car that was not his car.

The Phelps have some kind of connection in state govt or access to Dept of Revenue files that allows them to trace license plates to vehicle owners. But they were also able to ID the other guy in the car.

These people are unbelievably relentless.

[cbdo2007]

33. Here's what they shoudl have done....

Said the Funeral was going to be at X place on Thursday publicly.

Then had it at Y place privately on Wednesday. Sure, some of the public woudl be disappointed that they got left out, but all the close family could then at least have a private funeral for their daughter, and the WBC people would be there on the wrong day.

[Last_Stand]

34. The state may as well just write them a check right now...

or just flush the money down a toilet.

This is the sort of thing those hate-mongers *want* from the state.

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. +1

[Warren DeMontague]

36. If you can have a "free speech zone" 5 blocks away from a Presidential Speech

I don't see why you can't do the same thing for a funeral.

[DainBramaged]

37. I'd like to see Brewer sign her resignation....