there's something almost darkly comical about watching people

[cali]

scrambling to pin Jared Lougher to either the left or right. He was so all over the map, that it's possible to do either- in a very superficial way.

Personally? I think he was/is psychotic and picked wildly varying bits of stuff from everywhere on the spectrum to create his delusional world view.

[Skittles]

1. there is no question Mr. Lougher is deeply disturbed

there is also no question that repuke propaganda is also extremely disturbing and openly advocates violence

[Joe the Revelator]

5. Right...I don't think anyone was expecting Palin-style rhetoric to be aimed at Joe-Sixpack

Its a dog whistle to the crazies that killing elected officials is ok.

[walldude]

18. +1 and if the media continues to support the

right wing victimization ploy it's only going to get worse.

I kept waiting for a single Republican to at least admit they need to tone it down. Finally I saw a clip of the Scar and believe it or not Pat fucking Buchanan admitting that the shit is out of hand.

I hate it when I am on the same side of an issue as Pat Buchanan.

[Cleita]

8. +10

:thumbsup:

[TheWraith]

14. And that his personal paranoia mirrors the anti-government dog-whistles being used by the right.

While I understand people saying there's no coherent political belief there, it's silly to think that the mainstreaming of fringe, neo-apocalyptic conspiracy theories and violent political rhetoric didn't push this guy.

[Luminous Animal]

2. I agree and this is one of few threads on this topic that I will not hide.

This does not mean that I don't rule out consistent eliminationist rhetoric as an influence. We are blood-soaked up to our ears as a culture.

[kath]

15. Have you or the OP read yesterday's Amy Goodman interview of Chip Berlet - a man who's spent YEARS

studying right-wing haters and their rhetoric?
Read this, and then tell me Loughner is a mish-mash of right and left:

Chip Berlet on "The Becking of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords" http://www.democracynow.org/2011/1/10/chip_berlet_on_the_becking_of

Trust me, Berlet, David Neiwert, Sara Robinson, the SPLC, and a few others (names escape me right now) know the right-wing haters through and through. There are some DUers who are more familiar with their work than I am.

(thanks to whomever posted the Berlet piece here last night)

[Luminous Animal]

20. I am familiar with Berlet, Neiwert, Robinson, and the SPLC.

In fact, the term I used, eliminationist rhetoric, is straight from Neiwert. And,for what it is worth, on Saturday, I found most of the links to RW groups by googling keywords from Loughner's You Tube ramblings before Berlet's interview. Berlet provides excellent and speculative background for Loughner's political leanings. What Berlet does not and can not provide is a link to those political beliefs and Loughner's motive to murder. Also, he does not and can not provide a link between Loughner and Beck (or Palin, or the teabaggers or any other eliminiationist political operative).

Where I agree with Cali is the scrambling to secure a link between a clearly disturbed person's politics and the actions that he took. I won't discount it but I think focusing on whether or not this lone nut is liberal or conservative (it appears to me he's more libertarian than anything) keeps our focus off the real problem and that being, in my opinion, the acceptance of eliminationist rhetoric as a matter of course in our national dialog.

It's not that long ago that Time Magazine wouldn't have dreamed of front cover soft-pedal features boosting the reputations of such characters as Limbaugh and Coulter who advocate killing their political opponents.

Now? Eh. :shrug:

[eleny]

3. I believe that the overheated atmosphere in America didn't help

You know how so many people here need to take a break now and then? Except that maybe most here don't suffer from the demons that plagued JL.

Frankly, I find it easy to point a finger and blame the right and mightily so with an icy "J'Accuse". Especially the last Congress when the filibusters exceeded anything in our history by far. And their toady's in their press who whip up emotions with dangerous lies.

So, "bits and stuff from everywhere" just doesn't cut it, imo. I'd say there were huge chunks from right of center.

[Roundtree65]

4. I agree

I'm observing this whole kerfuffle (the post-shooting political posturing) as a non-American, and it is very, very strange.

The guy had paranoid schizophrenia - they often fixate upon authority figures.

They believe they are being persecuted in some manner. Unfortunately, this happens all over the world!

People should be discussing mental health - this is such a neglected issue.

[intheflow]

13. People need to be discussing both

the RW rhetoric that inflames a disturbed mind and talk about mental health issues. Of course, talking about any kind health issue with many RWingers leads to them getting so upset they continue verbal and physical assaults against us commies who actually support affordable, preferably socialized, healthcare.

[Raschel]

16. Shooting politicians who happen to be on a cross hairs map, and have had their office vandalized

happens all over the world?

What is SO BAD about calling for civility? Rep Giffords said last year that is was more over the top than she and her colleagues have seen. Do you think that strange, that she would be concerned with it after being threatened? Was she doing political posturing?

Again, WHAT IS SO HORRIBLE about calling for an end to violent rhetoric. Why is that not a good thing to do?

Is it going to harm someone?

[Catherina]

6. Rec'd n/t

[hlthe2b]

7. yes... but no less bizarre

than watching some of us contort ourselves in mea culpas after two days of RW spin determined to turn exposure of RW hate-filled vitriol and violent language into Left wing conspiracy. At the same time, they have allowed the RW to deflect both established consequences in other established incidents and the horrific potential in the current, into a left wing propaganda campaign for which some here seem determined to apologize. :shrug:


For the love of gawd, folks, go read Robert Kennedy Jr's piece just posted on that horrific day in Dallas and current parallels. Think about the consequences if we do not tamp down this violent rhetoric and overt threats now. Regardless of whether or not it can be shown to have influenced Jared Loughner.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/post_1548_b_807713.html

[emilyg]

9. rec.

[eridani]

10. Yes. And which part of the spectrum gets the most airtime? n/t

[tavalon]

11. Well, we're talking dog whistles, not specifics

It just happens that Palin's specific dog whistle was very targeted (yes, I meant that).

[yodermon]

12. You're right. And, there's not many "bits of stuff" from the Left for him to pick from.

[cali]

21. he picked up stuff about conscious dreaming

and conspiracy crap from loose change and for all we know, he picked up stuff from "The phantom tollbooth" and rock lyrics

And yes, stuff from the right.

[leftstreet]

17. The M$M use any excuse to paint us as a politically divided country

When in actuality, the divide is likely greater between those who vote/are politically active vs those who don't

Weird

[Umbral]

19. It doesn't matter, the people being vilified encouraged Lougher's actions.

His political beliefs are irrelevant.