Better Dead Than Red

[Octafish]

It seems to me many -- if not most -- of the most evil things my nation’s government has done, were in done in the name of anticommunism.



Overthrowing democratically elected governments, like in Iran, Guatemala and Chile. Invasions of foreign lands, like in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

What it boils down to is: "Property over People."
Such people put a price tag on their things and people.
Some even consider people as "things,"
calculating human beings as resources and costs.

Obviously, today the great public enemy is terrorism. And, in the name of counterterrorism my nation engages in all matter of illegal, immoral, unnecessary and disastrous wars that only serve to entrench the power and enrich the purses of an extremely small number of Americans.

If they don't believe in the sanctity of human life, you know damn well they don't believe in democracy, let alone the commons, sharing the common wealth, socialism or communism or anything that costs them one red cent. To them, anyone who is of the "other" is less than alive -- they're expendable. For them, "Money trumps peace."

[phasma ex machina]

1. The sanctity of human life is everything. nt

[Octafish]

2. Conservatives know what that means.

They are angered when I mention it.
For they believe they are "better than others"
and that they deserve to benefit from the work of others.
Should they benefit from the deaths of others, that's OK, too.

They just can't stand being called out on it.

[phasma ex machina]

3. BTW, it seems to me that America may provide "the muscle" behind a war machine the ultimately serves

the interests of City of London banksters. (City of London is a square mile in the center of London - the financial heart of the Anglo-American empire.)

[Octafish]

4. Agree that's a distinct possibility. Guy Ritchie shows off that part of town in "RocknRolla."

Of course, John Mackenzie talked about Harold and a similar psychology in "The Long Good Friday."

Regarding the players: They really do believe they're better than everybody. They even have bought some science to prove it.

[phasma ex machina]

5. Interesting thread. Some argue that American Indian reservations inspired the Nazis to create

concentration camps.

[Octafish]

6. And that's what I want to get across...

...the idea that some people find it OK to kill or lord it over other people -- the lesser people, the Untermenschen -- just because they have come to believe they are "entitled" to.



Remember Robert DeNiro's "The Good Shepherd?" The Mafia guy is getting together with the Oh-So-Social fellah and discussing things:

"We Italians, we've got our families and the Church. What do your people have, Mr. Wilson?"

"We've got the United States of America. The rest of you are just visiting."

[whathehell]

7. That was a very chilling line....n/t

[Octafish]

12. 'The Whole OSS Was Really Nothing But Wall Street Bankers …'

It really was chilling, whatthehell. In that one sentence, we see how we all are mere cannon fodder to those who think like solipsists, if not sociopaths. DUer robertpaulsen brought this up, way back when:

"If You Go Back To The CIA's Origins … He Explained, 'The Whole OSS Was Really Nothing But Wall Street Bankers …'"

Friday, July 3, 2009

You've probably heard that the CIA is looking to hire laid-off bankers.

This is nothing new.

The long-time former executive director of the CIA - Buzzy Krongard - is a former investment banker.

As Krongard told the Washington Post in March 2001:

If you go back to the CIA's origins during World War II in the Office of Strategic Services, he explained, "the whole OSS was really nothing but Wall Street bankers and lawyers."

http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2009/07/if-you-go...

Of course, by then, some unsavory characters had been added to the bankster mix...

Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich

[formercia]

24. Doing their BIT

Banksters in Training.

Funny story about Bill Casey. I asked my dad if he knew Casey and he immediately started laughing.

Part of the training to be an OSS Agent in the field was to qualify at jumping by Parachute. They started out like conventional Airborne training by jumping from a C-47, then to the favorite method, which was to bail at 700 feet from the belly of a British Lancaster Bomber. There was a circular hole in the belly of the Bomber and the Agents would sit around the edge. When the signal was given, they would drop out in quick succession, this way, they wouldn't be scattered all over the countryside. The Bombers operated at Night, so the idea was to get as close to the drop point as possible.
So Casey goes to Scotland where the training facility was and starts the program, but on his first jump attempt, he froze in the door of the C-47 and was disqualified for being a field agent. He spent the rest of his time as a Desk Officer filling supply requests from the field.
I can see Casey now, packing rolls of Toilet Paper, Cigarettes and Spam, into drop containers..:rofl: He was some big shot.

[formercia]

10. My favorite line .

says a lot. Historically, there were lots of omissions and misrepresentations, but the tenor was right.

"All here!!"

[Octafish]

19. It was Ike and Nixon's Team who enlisted the Mafia to kill Castro.

Being an introvert and such, I hate to repeat myself. So, seeing how I'm also a bore, what the heck.

Operation PLUTO was Dulles, Nixon and Eisenhower's Baby. Going after Castro (MONGOOSE was the executive action part) was initially DCI Allen Dulles' idea. From what I understand, Dulles and the "CIA White House Action Officer" Nixon sold the idea to Ike.

Operation Pluto

by Brooks Marlin
Wed Dec 04 2002 at 5:15:47

When Fidel Castro took control of Cuba in 1959, he managed to anger possibly the two most powerful organizations in the United States at the time, the U.S. government and the mafia. It seemed only natural that the two would team up to try and depose him.

The enterprise started in August of 1960. The CIA approached Beverly Hills private detective named Robert Maheu and asked him to help them with their plan to kill Castro by contacting his old friend Johnny Rosselli. Maheu was an ex-FBI agent who the CIA used to handle delicate matters where they didn't want to have an Agency or government person get caught. Johnny Rosselli was one of the heads of the Chicago Outfit, the most powerful organized crime group in the country. He split his time between Los Angeles and Las Vegas, handling all of the Outfit's west coast operations. For all of his criminal dealings, Rosselli was also an ardent patriot who loved his country.

Operation Pluto, as the assassination and ensuing invasion was deemed, had the heavy backing of Vice President (and presidential candidate) Richard M. Nixon. Nixon wanted the overthrow of Castro and the taking back of Cuba to happen before October of 1960 in order to give the administration a major victory before the election in November. The original plan was to use specially trained Cuban exiles to go in and kill Castro, but the administration also wanted to hire some professionals too, to make sure they got the desired results.

After being contacted by the CIA, Maheu and Rosselli met at the Brown Derby restaurant in L.A. Surrounded by Hollywood people pitching film scripts, Maheu pitched the idea of political assassination. Rosselli was initially reluctant to the idea, but after Maheu compared Castro to Hitler and talked about how the mission was necessary to protect the country, Rosselli agreed. Rosselli figured that not only was he doing he doing a service for his country, but also if his organized crime friends ever needed a little help, the government would be in their debt. Maheu was also authorized to offer the mob $150,000 to do the job, but Rosselli insisted that they would do it for free.

Rosselli took the plan back to his partners in Chicago, who tentatively OK'ed the plan. The other bosses were interested because, with Castro gone, the mob could reopen the casinos they controlled in Cuba. Sam Giancana was especially interested in the deal, reportedly declaring "We'll have the fucking government by the ass." Rosselli and Giancana flew to Miami where they met Maheu and officially agreed to the deal. The trio also welcomed to their inner circle Santo Trafficante, the mob boss of Miami, thanks to his contacts with anti-Castro dissidents in Cuba. The men began trolling the streets of "Little Havana" seeking Cuban exile accomplices. The mob needed to find a man that they could sneak into Cuba and poison Castro with special pills that had been provided to them by the CIA.

CONTINUED...

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1280206

Old news to you, my Friend. News to most everybody else, a tribute to Corporate McPravda and its tireless efforts ever since then to make it out otherwise.

PS: Spot-on, review of the film, formercia. IMFO, the story was crafted to bring certain issues to the surface. Perhaps the second- and third-installments will be produced. Until then, I'll have to grimace as I flashback to Angelina Jolie swiping out to "I'm a little lollipop..."

[formercia]

21. I worked with the Officer who finally destroyed the exploding Cigars.

most of it wasn't destroyed until the 80's. In fact a lot of it remained in stay-behind caches overseas. They didn't take Congress very seriously.

[Hannah Bell]

8. plenty of banksters elsewhere. nothing special about those in the city of london.

banking houses in sweden, germany, italy & france equally old & powerful. as well as us houses.

[Cal33]

13. Yes. These are the sick people who have swallowed the propaganda of

the equally sick and sociopathic corporate execs.

[Norrin Radd]

9. kr

[Octafish]

11. Ike and the Bomb vs. JFK and the Bomb

This helps explain how today's Rightwing got to be that way.

The Real Eisenhower: Planning to Win Nuclear War

by Ira Chernus
Common Dreams
March 18, 2008

Peace activists love to quote Dwight Eisenhower. The iconic Republican war hero spoke so eloquently about the dangers of war and the need for disarmament. He makes a terrific poster-boy for peace. But after years of research and writing three books on Ike, I think it's time to see the real Eisenhower stand up. The president who planned to fight and win a nuclear war, saying "he would rather be atomized than communized," reminds us how dangerous the cold war era really was, how much our leaders will put us all at risk in the name of "national security," and how easily they can mask their intentions behind benign images.

From first to last, Eisenhower was a confirmed cold warrior. Years before he became president, while he was publicly promoting cooperation with the Soviet Union, he wrote in his diary: "Russia is definitely out to communize the world....Now we face a battle to extinction." On the home front, he warned that liberal Democrats were leading the U.S. "toward total socialism."

SNIP…

For Eisenhower, the point of amassing a huge nuclear arsenal was not to deter war but to win it. This was enshrined as official policy in NSC 5810/1: "The United States must make clear its determination to prevail if general war occurs." The only meaningful war aim, he told the NSC, was "to achieve a victory." He described his war plan as "Hit the guy fast with all you've got if he jumps on you"; "hit 'em ... with everything in the bucket."

SNIP…

Eisenhower assumed that a post-holocaust America would be a totalitarian state, ruled by martial law. But he worried about (among other things) what would happen to the credit structure of the country and how to print and sell war bonds to finance the next war if Washington were destroyed. At one NSC meeting he complained that if the President and the Vice President were "knocked off," the "damnable" law of succession would result in the Democrats (he called them "the other team") taking the White House. "To assure against that happening, the President thought the Vice President should be put in cotton batting."

SNIP…

And we ignore it at our peril, because it was a policy that put anticommunist ideology above human life, made by a man who would "push whole stack of chips into the pot" and "hit 'em ... with everything in the bucket"; who would "shoot your enemy before he shoots you"; who believed that the U.S. could "pick itself up from the floor" and win a nuclear war, even though "everybody is going crazy," as long as "only" 25 or 30 American cities got "shellacked" and nobody got too "hysterical."

CONTINUED…

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/03/18/7742

He must've been visited by the ghosts of Lincoln and Patton to come up with that warning about the Military Industrial Complex.

Contrast that mindset with JFK's thinking:

Did the U.S. Military Plan a Nuclear First Strike for 1963?

by James K. Galbraith and Heather A. Purcell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TOP SECRET EYES ONLY

Notes on National Security Council Meeting July 20, 1961

General Hickey, Chairman of the Net Evaluation Subcommittee, presented the annual report of his group. General Lemnitzer stated that the assumption of this year's study was a surprise attack in late 1963, preceded by a period of heightened tensions.

After the presentation by General Hickey and by the various members of the Subcommittee, the President asked if there had ever been made an assessment of damage results to the U.S.S.R which would be incurred by a preemptive attack. General Lemnitzer stated that such studies had been made and that he would bring them over and discuss them personally with the President. In recalling General Hickey's opening statement that these studies have been made since 1957, the President asked for an appraisal of the trend in the effectiveness of the attack. General Lemnitzer replied that he would also discuss this with the President.

Since the basic assumption of this year's presentation was an attack in late 1963, the President asked about probable effects in the winter of 1962. Mr. Dulles observed that the attack would be much less effective since there would be considerably fewer missiles involved. General Lemnitzer added a word of caution about accepting the precise findings of the Committee since these findings were based upon certain assumptions which themselves might not be valid.

The President posed the question as to the period of time necessary for citizens to remain in shelters following an attack. A member of the Subcommittee replied that no specific period of time could be cited due to the variables involved, but generally speaking, a period of two weeks should be expected.

The President directed that no member in attendance at the meeting disclose even the subject of the meeting.

Declassified: June, 1993


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS ARTICLE FIRST APPEARED IN THE AMERICAN PROSPECT, NUMBER 19, FALL 1994, PP. 88-96. COPYRIGHT (c) 1994 BY NEW PROSPECT, INC. PERMISSION IS GRANTED TO COPY AND CIRCULATE FOR NON-COMMERCIAL PURPOSES ONLY, PROVIDED THAT THIS NOTICE ACCOMPANIES ALL COPIES MADE.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction

During the early 1960s the intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) introduced the world to the possibility of instant total war. Thirty years later, no nation has yet fired any nuclear missile at a real target. Orthodox history holds that a succession of defensive nuclear doctrines and strategies �� from "massive retaliation" to "mutual assured destruction" �� worked, almost seamlessly, to deter Soviet aggression against the United States and to prevent the use of nuclear weapons.

The possibility of U.S. aggression in nuclear conflict is seldom considered. And why should it be? Virtually nothing in the public record suggests that high U.S. authorities ever contemplated a first strike against the Soviet Union, except in response to a Soviet invasion of Western Europe, or that they doubted the deterrent effect of Soviet nuclear forces. The main documented exception was the Air Force Chief of Staff in the early 1960s, Curtis LeMay, a seemingly idiosyncratic case.

But beginning in 1957 the U.S. military did prepare plans for a preemptive nuclear strike against the U.S.S.R, based on our growing lead in land-based missiles, And top military and intelligence leaders presented an assessment of those plans to President John F. Kennedy in July of 1961. At that time, some high Air Force and CIA leaders apparently believed that a window of outright ballistic missile superiority, perhaps sufficient for a successful first strike, would be open in late 1963.

The document reproduced above is published here for the first time. It describes a meeting of the National Security Council on July 20, 1961. At that meeting, the document shows, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the director of the CIA, and others, presented plans for a surprise attack. They answered some questions from Kennedy about timing and effects, and promised further information. The meeting recessed under a Presidential injunction of secrecy that has not been broken until now.

CONTINUED...

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Essay_-_Did_the_US_Military_Plan_a_Nuclear_First_Strike_for_1963

And to think some say there's no difference between Republicans and Democrats...

PS: Thank you, Norrin Radd. Really appreciate it.

[Cal33]

14. It occured to me that regardless of Ike's private thoughts, what he

said and did publicly and officially as president was what led the nation -- not
his private thoughts. And he should be allowed to have his private thoughts just
like anyone else.

[Octafish]

22. The article describes policymaking: Ike thought nuclear war winnable, no Democratic input needed.

From the article by Ira Chernus:

The crux of Eisenhower's strategy for victory was to strike first. "Shoot your enemy before he shoots you," he insisted. That became official, albeit implicit, policy in NSC 5904/1, "U.S. Policy in the Event of War," which assumed the possibility of a preemptive response to an impending Soviet attack. In a "real" emergency, the president expected to launch an "all-out" nuclear war without consulting Congress.

Doesn't leave much to the imagination, that.

[Cal33]

26. Wow! I didn't know about that. I'm guessing that during Eisenhower's presidency

all nuclear weapons were land-based. Nuclear submarines were still in the
future. Under those circumstances asking Congress to declare war would have
been suicidal. The Soviet Union had no such similar law, and they would
have creamed us while the US president was waiting for Congress to act.
What else could Eisenhower have done to protect our country? There was
no other choice. Does that make sense?

Today, of course, nobody wins an all-out nuclear war. It's self-destruct
for everybody. The only defense is not to start one.

[LeftinOH]

15. I would rather be red than dead. n/t

[Cal33]

16. This is a slogan just as extreme as its opposite. It also appeals

to people who think in terms of slogans.

[Mudoria]

25. I don't wish to be either

[blindpig]

17. This attitude is displayed at DU every day.

The appalling depth and breath of 100 years of ruling class propaganda is on display for all, ya don't have to go to FR. People will repeat made up shit, some of it originating with Goebbels and the boys, most of simply taken as 'accepted wisdom' without inspection, in order to scare people into thinking that there is something worse than capitalism. We can argue if we wish that things were worse for the common folk in another era but we live in this era and capitalism is the threat which we face in the here and now.

[socialist_n_TN]

18. Yep. And the argument that "this isn't capitalism"...........

doesn't wash either. This IS capitalism, no matter what the textbooks say. Why? BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THE CAPITALISTS SAY CAPITALISM IS. We have to face what we face NOW, not a textbook.

[sabrina 1]

20. They never even gave that little girl, whose photo went around

the world on George Bush's 2nd Inauguration day, spoiling his big military display in DC, a name.

They people we kill are never given their humnity, not even name.

But that's why they hate Wikileaks. Wikileaks found the two little children who were wounded in the war crime where the two Reuters Reporters were murdered.

They gave them names, they told their story as human beings. OUR media knows this information is available, but never touched it.

It is evil and it's being done in the name of the American people.

[Octafish]

32. That image broke my heart.

...as this one of Samar Hassan, moments after her parents were shot and killed in their car at a checkpoint.



Like you, sabrina 1, it speaks Truth -- what the First Amendment is all about.

[sabrina 1]

34. Yes, that is the photo. It was heart-breaking.

What kind of cold-hearted monster could look at that and support the crime that made it possible?

I always thought that photo should have won an award. It is like a painting of the tragedy of war and represents all the nameless, innocent victims of the warmongers.

Thank you Octafish and thank you for always keeping the truth alive. I know we can't stop them, but I want history to record that there were Americans and people all over the world, who did not support the slaughter in that little girl's country.

[Taverner]

23. "Property over People" -- that's it EXACTLY

[Cal33]

27. Yes, and only really sick people - like sociopaths - can think in those terms.

[maryf]

28. Money trumps life...

for the capitalists, drive for profit runs ramshod over any and everybody. K&R

[Octafish]

29. ''Money trumps peace.'' -- George Walker Bush, Feb. 14, 2007

His actual words.

Money is the capitalist god. They worship it over all, even love.

[maryf]

30. Thanks

I remembered that. Damn they love money to death...eventually all of our deaths if they keep going like they are...we have to stop them...

on edit, how ironic that W said that on a day of love, Valentine's Day

[phasma ex machina]

31. "in God We Trust" the banksters' money proclaims.

Whose God?



Republicans painted The Apotheosis of Washington on the dome in the rotunda of the United States Capitol Building about the same time they added "In God We Trust" to their currency. The Apotheosis of Washington depicts George Washington becoming a god. Yep, that's old George up there draped in purple mostly surrounded by Roman gods (of Babylonian origin). "Freedom" (Columbia) rides a horse brandishing a sword and an All American shield.

:puke:

Definitely NOT the God of Abraham. The powers-that-be need to remove their god Washington filth from our Capitol.

[lonestarnot]

33. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours. Oh yeah?

K & R!