Loughner's parents 'devastated,' 'hurting'

[UpInArms]

Source: MSNBC

PHOENIX, Ariz. — The parents of Jared Loughner, the 22-year-old suspect in the fatal shooting of six people and attempted assassination of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, are "devastated" and "hurting real bad," a neighbor told The Wall Street Journal.

The paper reported that the neighbor, Wayne Smith, broke the news to Randy and Amy Loughner that their son was a suspect in the shootings Saturday.

<snip>

The Journal reported that Smith did not think Randy Loughner had worked since his son was born, but raised the child while Amy Loughner had a steady job.

Smith told the paper that he did not know the couple's last name until Saturday, despite having lived across the street since 1972.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41014125/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

[No Elephants]

1. My heart goes out to them, but I cannot help but wonder why so many others seemed to

know their son needed help.

[EFerrari]

2. My ex's parents didn't know their son had a personality disorder

or that he had psychotic episodes. They didn't know until I tried to tell them when he was 38. The mother seemed slightly autistic, not tapped into his emotional life and the father was completely disengaged. Not bad people, just not particularly empathetic people.

[No Elephants]

5. Every situation is different, which is why I am wondering, not blaming.

Also seems odd their closest neighbor did not know their last name?

[Tunkamerica]

6. One of their neighbors said they would ignore you if you tried to engage them

the whole family.

[shanti]

42. schizoid

maybe?

[MichellesBFF]

12. They keep to themsleves

I don't know my closest neighbor's last names.

[bigworld]

23. The parents had lived in that neighborhood since 1972

And Saturday was the first that anyone had learned their last name. Isn't that just a little weird? Or are my small town roots showing?

[Igel]

34. Turnover in the neighborhood, perhaps.

I grew up knowing all the people within 10 houses of my parents' house. Then I went to college, moved away, and 10 years after finishing high school didn't know half of them.

Moved into my current house less than two years ago. The neighbors across the street and south one house were foreclosed on and vacated in the last month or so. Didn't even notice that they'd moved. Have no idea what their names were. We're not absolute loners, but not gregarious socialites, either.

[nalnn]

46. Maybe

I thought the same thing about it. I've heard on the radio that Tucson is a metropolis with over 1 million population with the retention of 'small town' relationships. This appears to put that to lie.

I visited there many years ago while choosing a college. While I loved the University campus and was excited about the prospect of studying astronomy there where so many great astronomers had gone, something about the place didn't sit well with me. While there for about 4 days, I cannot recall one time which a person said hi, or waved or even looked me in the eye save in response to a purchase from a merchant and the tour guide at the campus. It was weird and against the grain of my own small town upbringing.

As an aside, I visited a small bookstore one afternoon on the edge of the downtown area down the street from our hotel. It was filled with all kinds of esoteric tomes with a distinctive occult theme. Yet another interesting and unusual encounter while visiting Tucson. FWIW




edit for misspelling Tucson as Tuscon. Oops!

[jwirr]

69. And their son stood in the window watching the neighborhood children

play?

[greiner3]

13. I don't think this was a case of personality disorder at all.

This was a case of mental illness. Mental illness is biological. He should have been recognized by professionals and treated. There is no excuse he was allowed to go this far with his delusions and able to act upon them.

This from someone who has been there and was helped.

[EFerrari]

52. Personality Disorder is an Axis 2 DX and can be quite severe and disabling.

And, I'm not fristing the shooter, just giving an example of one family who didn't see what was right in front of them.

[karynnj]

20. That whole situation must have been intensely painful to you

Your ex must have been able to create a veneer of normalcy of presumably he would not not have been able to get to a position where he became your "ex". Could the parents have intentionally ignored clues because that was the path of least resistance and it let them avoid the reality that their child had major problems that were difficult to deal with? It is not an easy thing to accept.

[EFerrari]

53. Peoples motives are always mixed, I guess, but

neither of the parents seemed able to grasp what was going on. The father died before he did. I worked with the mom as possible until she got it a little bit. I think she had some autism going on and she herself was never DXd because of the state of medicine when she was born and because she was extremely high functioning.

And yeah, my ex could present himself very well for long periods of time.

[karynnj]

59. My sympathies for what you had to go through

[shanti]

41. sounds like

they had their own personality disorders (or problems) themselves. denial can be a bitch. there is a hereditary component to them.

[EFerrari]

54. It's possible. n/t

[CraftyGal]

51. Either they didn't know or if the did they had know supports.

We have had issues with Hubby's youngest for years and he was able to snow all the professionals. We struggled and were told by the professionals there was nothing more they could do. We still have good and bad days with the young man. We suspect he is bipolar and that he self-medicates to control the symptoms. So sometimes parents see the signs but have no supports and no ideas as to where to turn. So please do NOT blame the parents.

CraftyGal

[hlthe2b]

3. It is a difficult situation with respect to the parents...

But, I am glad some reporting is occurring. Otherwise, I think the public draws the worst possible conclusions. It would be nice if someone with media savvy could step forward to help the family review and release their statement. They are clearly overwhelmed, but I think things would get a bit better for them, if they could just get a statement out.

Sad situation and I withhold any judgment, but it is hard to understand their not getting help for their son after the community college notified them of the issues.

[karynnj]

21. IIf that were the first time, they would be hampered by his age if he thought

no help was needed. It seems though that his problems started in his Junior year in high school and he never graduated. One would think that that is when action would have been taken.

[Kali]

29. the son was 21 or 22, why would PCC notify them?

grown kids living at home can have less contact with parents than when living away - I can speak personally on that! people struggling with jobs/finances/other health problems then add in denial and I can see easily how serious problems get left to fester

and one of the things I think people are missing in this case is there can be periods of complete lucidity - it might take a huge effort on the person's part but if all they are doing is say making a purchase, or passing through the living room, grabbing food out of the fridge, walking to class etc where a sustained period of time (like IN a class) they can not maintain and come off as really weird or scary

nevermind as in the case of his friends and acquaintances, that hindsight is ALWAYS so easy

How many strange people do you run into in the course of a day or week? How many times have you had moments of stupidity or wierd behavior that may have been perfectly innocent but might have looked odd to another person? Those events don't get reported to the police.

when everybody tolerates the isolation we create by normal urban living combined with the complete abandonment of in-person human interaction than thanks to technology, and then pile on the utter disregard for mental health, it is really easy to let people slip too far.

[hlthe2b]

31. You missed the fact that PCC DID notify them....

[Kali]

32. I sure did.

where was that? (sorry I don't link to every article as they take so damn long to load on my shitty dial up, but will check the OP on this)

regardless, my comments still stand - what were they supposed to do? Maybe mom has been nagging him to set up the appointment for the past 6 months? Maybe they beleived whatever he may have told them about the "bad" administration at PCC. Hell maybe they HAD and appointment, the way things are in this state it might TAKE 6 months to get seen, I don't know.

[hlthe2b]

33. The PCC statement is on the Tucsonsentinal site which appears

to be overlogged or down right now... I did, however, find a copy at another online website:
Here it is in total:

By Inside Tucson Business
Published on Monday, January 10th, 2011
Pima Community College issued this statement regarding the shooting of U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the suspect, Jared Loughner, who is in custody.

"As are all Americans, Pima Community College is deeply saddened by today’s tragic events, and our most heartfelt condolences and thoughts go the families of the victims.

"PCC records indicate that Jared Lee Loughner, the suspect in custody in connection to today’s terrible mass shooting, is a former PCC student who voluntarily withdrew from the College on Oct. 4, 2010.


"Loughner was a PCC student from Summer 2005 through Fall 2010, when he was suspended for Code of Conduct violations. The College’s Code of Conduct is available at www.pima.edu/studentserv/studentcode/studentcode-2-conduct.shtml.

"From February to September 2010, Loughner had five contacts with PCC police for classroom and library disruptions at Northwest and West campuses. On September 29, 2010, College police discovered on YouTube a Loughner-filmed video made at Northwest Campus. In the video, he claims that the College is illegal according to the U.S. Constitution, and makes other claims.

"Working with legal counsel, College administration issued a letter of immediate suspension on September 29, 2010. That evening, two police officers delivered the letter of suspension to the student at his and his parents™ residence and spoke with the student and his parents.

"The suspension letter indicated that he was to contact the Northwest Campus to schedule an appointment to discuss the Code of Conduct process and suspension status. Other than for this appointment, he was prohibited from returning to the College.

"Loughner and his parents met Northwest Campus administrators October 4, 2010. During this meeting Loughner indicated he would withdraw from the College. A follow-up letter was sent to him October 7, 2010, indicating that if he intends to return to the College, he must resolve his Code of Conduct violations and obtain a mental health clearance indicating, in the opinion of a mental health professional, his presence at the College does not present a danger to himself or others.

"After this event, there was no further College contact with Loughner."

[Kali]

47. I have to wonder how much all of this set him off even more

what a mess

the real definition of tragedy

[jwirr]

70. I am late to this discussion but I read the article this morning. You are

correct about how this may have slipped by everyone. But one statement in the article talked about the neighborhood when he was a child. The parents seem to be loners and the son was seen watching their children play outside from his window. Why was he not out there playing with the other children? Did they already know that he had some problems so they isolated him. I know I am drawing conclusions but it seems strange to me that this is the statement of a long time neighbor. What was going on?

[madmax]

4. As a parent I too would be devastated.

I will not judge them.

[Lancer]

7. It is very hard for some parents to acknowledge their children are sick

Speaking from experience -- 5 children, all adults now

1 suicide 15 years ago

2 w/multiple hospitalizations, on meds and in therapy and doing well now

4 who attempted suicide at least once

1 who sought treatment on his own and has stuck with it for several years

1 undiagnosed w/ mental disorder -- could be Aspergers at best, schizophrenia at worst

The parents don't know or cannot accept a lot of this. The siblings' problems clearly have a genetic factor. Both parents appear to have affective disorders to one degree or another, but they may simply be in denial. In any case, they do not think there is anything wrong with their children. They dislike/distrust/remain wary of the whistleblower child who said the suicidal one -- who carried out his plan -- was in grave danger and needed help. But that's about the extent of their parental concern.

So, I can understand the Loughners' behavior and response. It's easy for outsiders to ask, "how could they not know?" But parents can convince themselves that sick children are just fine, for many, many reasons. (1) They don't know what's wrong, don't know where to go for help (2) He/she will grow out of it/it's role-playing/just a phase (3) Why are other people sticking their noses in our family business -- there's nothing wrong with my child, I'm the parent, if there was something wrong wouldn't I know? (4) Huh. Piece of paper from some school telling me my child needs a psych eval. They can go to hell, etc. etc.

[customerserviceguy]

9. Or misraised

Who's responsible for turning him into a self-absorbed brat who went into a tizzy when a Congressperson sent him a form letter that didn't meet his needs for the parenting that he never got?

I do hold them partly responsible, and it's proper that they have a sense of shame in this hour.

[Kali]

30. turning him into a self absorbed brat?

I hope that you never face the situation of a mentally ill child or even "black sheep"

Yes sometimes the family situation contributes and even causes "bad kids", but if you don't think they can appear in healthy families too you are very ignorant or very lucky.

[shanti]

44. wow

that's really ugly, blaming the parents :(

[TBF]

49. "Misraised" - who are you to judge them? nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

56. Do you consider the possibility that some parents may parent OK, but nevertheless

something goes POP in the child's head and they become lunatics?

It does happen.

Likewise, OK people often come from very sub-par raising.

[chrisa]

60. You have no idea what you're talking about.

He was mentally ill. What do you think they could have done? There's very little help for somebody this mentally ill these days.

[Catherina]

61. Self-absorbed brat? This was a kid who volunteered at the local animal shelter

and walked the dogs so they wouldn't be cooped up in their cages all day.

How are you concluding that he was a self-absorbed brat?

The self-absorbed brats are in DC getting thousands of kids killed for their lies.

[SemperEadem]

11. it's even harder for them to accept responsibility for the consequences

of taking that tack, too. Their intent may have been good, but what has fallen out in experience is a lot of damage and destruction that was caused by their son and people are looking for answers as to why this happened the way it did. I think if one of my family members was lying in a morgue right now in Tucson, the mental health management and struggle by this family really wouldn't be enough to sway my grief and outrage.

As long as this country's attitude towards mental health issues and its management is what it is, then those battling mental illness will continue to have their struggle disregarded, diminished and relegated to the rubbish heap. The treatment of mental illness needs to be dragged out of the 19th century already.

[SemperEadem]

8. well.. it's a sad, unfortunate series of events that led to this point

but I'm sorry--I don't buy the "we didn't realize the full extend of his illness".

The school where he attended said he couldn't come back until he'd been cleared by a mental health professional. That didn't happen on Friday. Are they saying that getting that notice from the college didn't pique their interest?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/loughners-college-instructor-i.html
The school said on Saturday that Loughner was a student from 2005 to last September--several weeks after Sorenson last saw him. It said the final straw was a YouTube video Loughner had made on campus, calling the college unconstitutional. He was suspended, and agreed in October to withdraw.

[RobinA]

14. As Someone Who Works

in mental health with people who have serious mental illness - what if they did know the full extent of his illness? Plenty of parents know the full extent, but find there is little they can do. The mental health system is run on a showstring, is fragmented, and very difficult to negotiate. Eveything is done as cheaply as possible. It's a disaster. From a policy standpoint, nobody cares about this guy until he shoots up a parking lot full of people. Then he is law enforcement's problem. The parents, had they worked full time to get their son help, may not have had any better outcome than resulted here.

[mdmc]

16. RobinA knows

:toast:

[Downwinder]

17. Under the current Arizona administration, it is not going to get any better.

[Tansy_Gold]

18. RobinA knows, ditto

I worked for an agency that provided services to the SMI (seriously mentally ill) community. The agency was constantly short of funds and often had to turn away patients simply because there was no money.

I'm not a health professional; I worked in a strictly administrative capacity. But it reached the point where lack of funds also meant lack of treatment and lack of security. I was literally afraid to go to work, but also realized that many in the SMI population are getting no treatment at all. it just isn't available. So the people who frightened me when they were in the agency lobby are no different than hundreds who are walking our streets, our malls, our schools, our workplaces every single day.


TG, TT

[InkAddict]

28. And sometimes the providers and caretakers are like

the blind leading the blind - One could throw lots more dollars out there and the results would be the same, except those practicing this way would remain, only less concerned and richer. How well might their patients get when the patients find out how their mental health issues made them sitting ducks for still more and sometimes greater abuses/breaches of trust.

NO SHAME
A long time ago, when faced w/too much on my plate and suffering from a situational depression, a provider suddenly dropped me as a patient without referral for continuity of care (came to find out, the provider was in legal hot water for prescription pad abuses in the office and was merely reprimanded upon discovery)

NO CONSCIENCE
A second, trained in the treatment of PTSD, ended up all over the globe spouting "treatment plans" for some, but keeping silent on the abuse of others' minds of which this provider MUST surely have known. This fine provider made haste testifying on their own behalf for timely payments by the insurer, then bid adieu, saying there was a credit on the account, for MORE INTERESTING caseloads and a more than sheepish public eating up the "hero's" take on the mindbreaking tortures perpetrated on our side's minds as they struggle with issues such as the sharing of refrigerators in the field, LOL.

So just what qualifies as a "domestic" terrorist? Playing with minds and lives for money and for their own reputation/fame?...forgive the paranoia-I've met up w/two "trusted" providers in the past. Disclaimer: YEMV.

When, in one's depression, one mentions the DU-espoused domestic terrorists, i.e., sociopaths, narcissists, and greed-based addicts on Wall Street, in the banking community, and in our government, concerned merely with only their bonuses, these mental health "professionals" responded in exactly the same way, turning a deaf ear and collecting their hourly fee despite their sterling credentials.

These folks are just humans, like me, though, so it's entirely possible I got it wrong as well, and although I do recall the anger and mistrust I experienced, it's now just a foggy sense about two people I'll not likely meet again...and so, water over the damned (Freudian, no?).

NO SOUL
When your child (of any age) is in trouble, is shunning/denial ever a helpful answer? I've just come to the conclusion that mote removal is just really, really hard work that we're unlikely to get right 100% of the time. Would that we didn't need to, but...some actually enjoy the sport on occasion and some just stop trying; hence, EVIL.

[Tansy_Gold]

57. Sounds like you sought help at the same place I worked

:hug:

[bigworld]

22. And sometimes the parents are mentally ill as well

And see nothing wrong with their child.

[LiberalEsto]

25. Or are mentally ill themselves and unable to cope

with their mentally ill offspring.
From what little I've read about the parents, they seem like they have problems of their own. It's not normal to ignore neighbors and go inside when a neighbor speaks to them. And if the parents both have mental illnesses, the son could have inherited his problems from both of them.

[RobinA]

48. Yep...

This too. It's my job, I'm well educated, sane, experienced in the field, and fairly intelligent, I have every advantage when trying to get people help, and working the system can STILL be a nightmare. It's utterly incomprehensible to people with any kind of limitation, including lack of familiarity with how things work. Not to mention, the system as set up (at least in my state) makes no logical sense.

Remember back in the day those complex Japanese electronics with directions translated from Japanese by a native Japanese speaker into something somewhat identifiable as English? That's the system.

[Tatiana]

38. Plus Gov. Brewer has signed a bill cutting another $30+ million from the mental health services

budget. It is often very hard, even if one is dedicated, to find and receive the help a loved one needs... especially if they are not wealthy and do not have the $$$ to pay for a child or loved one to be committed to a residential facility.

[shanti]

45. exactly

i have a son who is mentally ill as well. however, he is over 21 (hipaa laws) so not much anyone else can do unless he hurts himself or others (or threatens to).

[jwirr]

71. KO tonight talked about his father seeing him leave the house and

chasing him until he finally lost him. I did not exactly understand what happened.

[BridgeTheGap]

15. Even if realized, your talking about a 22 year old LEGAL adult (immaturity notwithstanding).

Generally, the way it works is that the adult party in question has to threaten physical harm to themself or someone else. If they aren't doing this, what anyone else can do in terms of forcing them to get help is extremely limited. Personality disorders can be extremely difficult to identify even by trained professionals. People with borderline personality disorder are known to be adept at hiding their symptoms.
How these parents raised this child may or may not have been an issue. Usually, the people who say that it was obvious that this guy had a mental problem (as indicated by the college's conditions for him to re-enroll) and he should have been dealt with, don't know how the mental health system and relevant laws work (or don't, for that matter).

[Igel]

39. The standard is showing sound judgement.

Usually if it doesn't hurt or threaten others and the person can manage, they're left alone if nobody takes an interest in them.

If they hurt or threaten others--and don't show sound judgment--then the police handle them. They'll get confined, evaluated, and it'll be tossed to the courts. Arizona has public fiduciaries to assume responsibility for such. Psychiatric confinement is a tougher row to hoe, but manageable.

There are group homes and state assistance available.

Parents and other "interested parties" have an easier time showing lack of sound judgment, but such guardianships are usually still limited in scope or duration. They're also very painful to secure and to implement and it's often hard to see the upside to them until the downside is so very, very bad. It probably wasn't bad enough to make guardianship seem like a good idea until the bullets started flying.

I have a relative in Arizona--a different one--who had a psychotic break a couple of years ago. He was definitely mentally ill prior to his "big break," but nobody wanted to do anything until he got violent and wanted to start killing people. Then the police got involved and it was for the best: His family could be on his side as he saw it while the state compelled treatment. Had they taken action they'd have been taking him to court to strip away his civil rights, they'd have been the enemy just when he needed his family to be supportive.

I've gone through guardianship proceedings in Arizona in the last year or two, representing myself in seeking guardianship over a relative. My other family members either didn't want the responsibility or didn't see a problem or hoped it would go away but supported me when I filed for guardianship and then testified against our mutual relative. As a result, we are the enemy and cannot be forgiven. That relative has absolutely nobody to support her emotionally or that she thinks she can trust, nobody to help her.

[BridgeTheGap]

43. It is an extremely tough situation to be in, any way you look at it. I've gone through it with

several family members.

[CLANG]

19. Why is everthing about the constitution with these people

I guess we should outlaw ice cream, since it's not mentioned in the constitution. :eyes:

[LiberalEsto]

27. Neither is the Republican Party.

Hmmmmm.

[Igel]

40. Humorously, in a weird sense of the word,

the problem was respecting his Constitutionally guaranteed civil rights. To due process and to privacy.

His parents had no right to the note from the school, and the school was constitutionally barred from talking to the parents about his mental health. His parents were constitutionally barred from any easy way to seek treatment for him against his will. Even if he went to a doctor, unless he had authorized his doctors to talk to them about his condition the doctor would be barred from talking to them.

[24601]

62. The Constitution restrains government, not the people - so it would

only prohibit government ice cream.

But deny it to yourself if you want.

[CLANG]

65. You're preaching to the choir!

:toast:

[Igel]

35. He was over 18.

His parents wouldn't have gotten any notice from the college. That would have violated his civil rights.

He may have told them. He may not have. I knew a guy in church who was fired and insisted on leaving the house every day, dressed for work, and returning at his usual time. He didn't want to tell his wife and kids. And the sheer number of dropouts who fabricated excuses? Ha.

Even worse is that many mentally ill people that are paranoid are convinced that they're normal and everybody else is ill or evil. Such a note from the college would fit that belief quite nicely--just as my Alzheimer's-afflicted mother is convinced that there's an elaborate conspiracy by her doctors, family, friends, bank, police, and the courts to steal her money and her house. Every bit of evidence can be attributed to the conspiracy; it's utterly unfalsifiable.

Adding to my mother's "situation" is that she keeps every trace of a problem that she can hidden from others. It gives the impression that she knows quite well that she's failing and what the problems are and can only be trying to cover it up and deceive us. But she's not. She's just anosognosic. And paranoid/delusional (but not a harm to herself or others, so psychiatric treatment isn't appropriate).

[LisaL]

68. The college send a letter to his home.

"The college administration immediately suspended Loughner and delivered a letter of suspension to Loughner's parents' home. According to the Pima, police officers spoke with both Loughner and his parents."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/01/10/national/main7231560.shtml

[Dappleganger]

37. The school could have said that but since Loughner was of legal age

it is quite possible the parents had no idea about that. He could have pretended that he was still in school going to class. I know several cases of friends with kids who were kicked out due to grades yet their parents had no clue until MUCH later.

[LisaL]

67. The college send a letter to his home about him being suspended.

Police reportedly talked to both the son and his parents.

[Joanne98]

10. Sad.

[hamsterjill]

24. No judgment here, but I hope someone is checking on them.

I'm sure the police, etc. have interviewed them, but from the description that they neighbor gave, the couple could use some counseling themselves at this time. The neighbor, in one report, described the mother as so overwrought that she could not get out of bed, and the father as crying. Emotions which are understandable.

But it doesn't appear that they have a support system in place, since they are described as "loners". I hope someone has thought to take their needs into consideration. There's no way of knowing, of course, but if a mental illness component exists in all of this with the son (which it obviously does!), it could possibly be a consideration with the parents, as well.

[slackmaster]

26. Unrec for dirt-mongering. Leave those people alone.

:nuke:

[hlthe2b]

36. I disagree... The parents should not be hounded...

but if they have a message they want to reveal, it should be covered. The neighbor, in revealing the painful state and a few of the facts about the parents, is doing a service to them IMO. Otherwise people will get a tremendously wrong impression. It is germane to the issue, though I'd certainly agree that the press needs to allow them space and to only deal with a family-designated spokesperson, which for the time being, appears to be the neighbor.

[TBF]

50. I agree. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

55. You could have said that without the personal attack.

[RamboLiberal]

58. Sheriff Dupnik calls them dysfunctional

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said Monday that he couldn't comment specifically on Loughner's upbringing or mental health, but he noted that his was a "somewhat dysfunctional family."

-----

(A neighbor's grandson)

"When I was probably 16 or 17, I had a Mustang. Randy had his hot rod. We'd talk shop. He'd help me out. I'd help him out, and everything was great," said Gayam's grandson Rick Dahlstrom.

But around 15 years ago the dynamic abruptly changed, Dahlstrom said.

"There was times when we'd be out with other neighbor kids, and Jared wouldn't be allowed out. He'd be watching from the window or door," he said. "They all became very isolated. Randy was isolated, Amy wasn't out anymore. Something changed. They just kept to themselves."

"We used to talk, you know, though not a lot," said Gayam. "But recently there was always some choice words said at times or gestures when someone was driving by. There's no real rhyme or reason as to why." Neighbors said the Loughners' behavior perplexed them and made them uncomfortable.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/jared-lee-loughner-family-portrait-isolation/story?id=12587114

[knoxy]

63. He was probably paranoid schizo

Schizophrenia often onsets in the very late teens/early 20's. Chances are VERY good that is what is going on here. This is not a personality disorder, clearly. Sociopaths don't have the empathy chip in their brain - schizophrenics are a totally different ballgame. Mentally ill and often feed into the whole "government conspiracy rhetoric." They are perfect targets for that kind of thinking, unfortunately.

It could be that the parents didn't know what was going on with their son and didn't realize the extent of his illness. I don't blame them in any way, shape or form. One meeting about your kid getting kicked out of school for being inappropriate doesn't put blame on their shoulders for his behavior.

Very sad.

[underpants]

64. Of course they are. Devastating to everyone.

he didn't live at home as I understand it. A badly mixed up kid they had no control over anymore.

[LisaL]

66. He lived at home.

[ZombieHorde]

72. This thread in on the top of On The Fence. Why is this tread so controversial? nt

[Catherina]

73. Because compassion dilutes the hate. Can't be having any of that

it seems.