Florida ticketed more than 10K drivers for warning others of speed trap by flashing high beams

[Liberal_in_LA]

Florida sued for ticketing motorists who warn others of speed traps

Florida is facing a class-action lawsuit from drivers who have been ticketed for attempting to warn other motorists of hidden speed traps. According to WTSP 10 News, Eric Campbell was recently cited for just that, despite the fact that there is no law against using one's headlights to communicate with other drivers. The officer who ticketed Campbell used Florida State Statute 316.2397, even though the courts ruled that the police were wrongfully applying the law to crack down on vehicle-to-vehicle communication in 2005. Now Campbell wants his $100 ticket refunded and $15,000 in damages.

Since 2005, over 10,429 drivers have been cited for flashing their high beams, and if Campbell wins his case, Florida could be facing over $1 million in ticket refunds. But that's nothing compared to the $156.4 million the state could have to pay out if each driver is awarded $15,000 each. Hit the jump to take a look at news report on the lawsuit.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/08/29/florida-sued-for-ticketing-motorists-that-warn-others-of-speed-t/?ref=mostpopular

[ixion]

1. I do that all the time on the highway that goes into town

and the other cars do as well. I live in FL, but never realized they were pulling people over for that. :wow: :wtf:

[DiverDave]

2. So, you warn the bad guys that there is a cop

if you are speeding you deserve a ticket.
And what if that guy has a kid or someone he took?

Let the cops do their job.

If you dont speed, you dont get a ticket, pretty simple.

They should throw the lawsuit out.

[Shagbark Hickory]

4. You're making the assumption people were using their headlines to warn of a speed trap.

Chances are they were just doing it by mistake.
Or they were doing at an expression of joy.

You know how joyful driving can be.

[Zywiec]

5. "And what if that guy has a kid or someone he took?"

That's quite a stretch isn't it?

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

6. bah hahahah. lmfao. seriously?

wow

[Are_grits_groceries]

8. The places I warn other drivers about with my lights are

notorious speed traps. They change speeds from slow to slower at several points. You will very suddenly find yourself going 25mph In a 20mph area that just popped up.

Many towns make a lot of money with the fines they give people. Most people aren't zooming down the road. They get caught going a few mph over the limit that suddenly changed.

Getting through those areas is a quest worthy of Harry, Hermione, and Ron.

I was driving through one of those areas and I passed a cop hidden snugly in a pocket on the side of the road formed by some bushes. I had been having trouble with my brakes, and after I passed him, I had to pull over because the grinding noise sounded like a buzzers. I walked back to him to ask if there was someone that could help me. My cell phone wasn't charged.

He could have cared less, and didn't want o help me one little bit. He was too busy catching 'speeders.' He probably had a quota.

So no, I don't feel the least bit guilty about flashing my lights. They are playing a game to get money, and I want to thwart them in their quest.

[Drahthaardogs]

9. What about freedom of speech?

Why can I not tell someone that there is a police car ahead? I understand your premise, don't speed don't worry; however, I still think the Bill of Rights is more important.

[jberryhill]

13. There is nothing wrong with warning others to slow down

You suggest there is a moral defect in "warning the bad guys" and totally ignore the fact that the message to them is "pay attention and slow down if you need to".

There is nothing wrong with telling speeders to slow down.

[pipi_k]

34. That reason only works if

people also flash their lights when there isn't a speed trap around.

I don't know about anyone else, but when I'm busy paying attention to my own driving, it's real hard for me to judge the speed of oncoming traffic, so I wouldn't have a reason for telling others to slow down unless there were a speed trap behind me.

So this whole "warning other drivers to slow down" thing sounds like bullshit to me. People are warning other drivers of a speed trap ahead.

Which is fine if that's what you want to do.

But once the speeding idiot gets past that speed trap, what does anyone suppose is going to happen then? Yeah. He'll slow down till he gets past it, then speed back up again.

My attitude is fuck 'em. If they're chronic speeders, I'm not going to enable them to do it when they think nobody is watching. Getting a speeding ticket will probably impact them more and could cause them to think twice before speeding again. Even when nobody is watching.

[DainBramaged]

21. It is too laughable a comment to respond to

[October]

22. You "warn" other drivers and what do they do? They slow down. /nt

[Lucian]

26. Yeah, because every driver that flashes their high beams are doing just that.

:eyes:

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. The people ticketed weren't speeding. They warned others of a speed trap.

There was no law against doing so. Cops can't make up laws just to suit themselves

[snooper2]

29. bad guys ROFL

Jesus Nancy Christ on a gravemarker :rofl:

[pipi_k]

41. Well, I guess it's funny

If you've never had a friend or loved one hurt or killed by a speeder.

I nearly lost both my children in separate accidents because of speeders.

So yeah...forgive me if I fail to see the humor there.

I don't like speeders, and I don't like drunk drivers.


:(

[snooper2]

42. You know, there are speeders, then there are SPEEDERS

Check this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yd88whKZ28

Cops Chase Ford GT

[pipi_k]

45. Most cops won't bother with someone

only going a couple of miles over the speed limit.

It happens, and I would never fault someone for it as long as the person self corrects when he discovers what's going on.

I'm talking about the ones who speed as a way of life. The ones who constantly drive at least 10 MPH over the limit. Most of the time, they're the ones the cops are going to pull over...not some guy doing 38 in a 35 MPH zone.

[Mopar151]

62. The people who drive over the speed limit

By 5-15 MPH are, statistically, the safest drivers.

[COLGATE4]

31. Spoken like a true Republican

[DiverDave]

37. HUH??

That was the answer from a Idaho state cop I know.

What if it was YOUR kid/wife/mom?

So, yeah, laugh...god some people

Oh, and calling me names is just childish

[LanternWaste]

44. Much as calling someone doing five over the limit a "bad guy" is childish?

"calling me names is just childish..."

Much as calling someone doing five over the limit a "bad guy" is childish?

Or are you merely holding others to a higher standard than you hold yourself?

[tgal]

54. Thank you.

that is exactly what I said when I read that post.

[dionysus]

32. "bad guys"? wtf? lol. i also flash the brights if someone forgot to turn their headlights on.

[pipi_k]

38. yeah, I do too, but

it's way different from warning others there's a speed trap ahead of them.

Like I said above, I don't care if others do it. I don't do it.

Forgetting to turn on one's lights is an act of omission and understandable.

Speeding is more an act of commission. People who willfully speed think they are more important than others on the road. I don't see a good reason for enabling arrogance, but that's just me.

People can do what they want. But it's not the same as flashing your lights to tell someone his own headlights are off. Forgetting to turn them on isn't arrogance.

[L0oniX]

39. LOL

[NeedleCast]

51. I'd agree with you, but there is no law against flashing your lights as a warning

Therefore, people doing it are not breaking the law.

As a resident of Baltimore, which was recently ranked the #2 worst driving city in the country, I can attest to the hate I have of people wizzing past me doing 80 in a 55, cutting in and out of lanes, during rush hour. As a person who spends close to three hours a day (on a good day) commuting, the endless stream of accidents on local freeways and the Baltimore beltway just add to my misery.

That being said, if it's not illegal, you shouldn't be ticketed for it.

[MilesColtrane]

61. self deleted

[Shagbark Hickory]

3. I stopped warning people after I heard people were getting in trouble for doing it. (years ago).

Now it's every man for himself.

But I live in a place that doesn't do speed traps thank goodness.

[Zanzoobar]

7. 316.2397 Certain lights prohibited; exceptions.

7) Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as a means of indicating a right or left turn, to change lanes, or to indicate that the vehicle is lawfully stopped or disabled upon the highway or except that the lamps authorized in subsections (1), (2), (3), (4), and (9) and s. 316.235(5) are permitted to flash.

http://law.onecle.com/florida/motor-vehicles/316.2397.html

--

Seems clear to me. Florida should win.

[yawnmaster]

10. "Flashing" in that code sounds more like an adjective than a verb...

Otherwise the ability to flash headlights would be illegal in all cases as flashing headlights do not cover any of those purposes listed. If you read the entire code section you will see that is true. They are specifying lights that normally flash and where they can be used. Not flashing ones headlights.

[Zanzoobar]

12. If a light is flashing, it is a flashing light.

We shall see.

[Fumesucker]

15. So what do you do if the person coming toward you at night leaves his high beams on?

Just go ahead and drive off the road since you can't see because it's illegal to signal him by flashing your lights at him?

[yawnmaster]

20. it is clear this code mentioned is not about flashing one's headlights, it specifies where...

flashing lights may be used. That is, flashing the adjective.
It does not specify when one can flash one's lights.

[Fumesucker]

23. Heh, I was just going for the reductio ad absurdum kill... n/t

[yawnmaster]

19. But it is not necessarily a "Flashing Light", that is a light whose purpose it is to flash...

such as blinkers, and lights on the roofs of police and utility vehicles.
Those are the type of lights the specific ordinance is talking about.
Not about flashing ones headlights as headlights are not normally "flashing lights".

[Shagbark Hickory]

11. OK so for all the PoPos know that's what the driver could have been doing...

indicating a turn or was disabled.

[woodsprite]

14. I flash my lights to warn others, but I will also do it as

a "thank you", to indicate that someone can pass, or to let someone
know their high beams are on.

[Mendocino]

46. If then while stopping

someone pumps their brakes which makes the tailights flash on and off, are they guilty of a crime?

[scheming daemons]

16. If SAFETY is the concern, the police would have NO PROBLEM with people flashing their lights

at other motorists. It gets those motorists to slow down, thus making them more safe.


But safety is *NOT* their concern. Generating revenue is.

[HughBeaumont]

48. + 1.

They should stop discouraging a practice that is NOT illegal out of some feigned concern for motorist safety.

[saras]

17. I know Florida is broke, but I hope every suit is won and gets the full award.

If the law was legitimate (i.e. a speed limit for reasons of safety), then getting people to slow down is actually helping. Police all over the country agree to this - what they REALLY want is to not scrape bits of bodies off the road.

Using traffic laws as a way to raise money, though, is a fundamentally illegitimate use of the law, not to mention a highly regressive tax on the poor.

I wonder if they ticket people for warning of accidents or other traffic hazards up ahead also?

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. I warn people behind me by hitting the brake rapidly several times BEFORE I get to the cop...

So they don't see my brake lights. :evilgrin: I don't warn those coming toward me...for that very reason above. The cops can see it. Even though it's not illegal, I don't want to piss off a cop. :scared:

[X_Digger]

24. Signs work much better.. :)

?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJFZAE65UYRT34AOQ&Expires=1314934844&Signature=N4P4d7Td8bzcpth6y%2FMXiVXTSfs%3D

[florida08]

35. lol..priceless

[lpbk2713]

25. I'm glad it's happening on Rick Scott's watch.

Let him pull the money out of his asshole if he has to.

[Obamanaut]

28. . nt

[Pisces]

30. Wow, I do this all of the time if I see a speed trap.

[seabeyond]

33. hey... btw, over 10K drivers have been so thoughtful of fellow travelers

yea them. a state of nice.

[florida08]

36. they aren't called speed 'traps' for nothing

And like another poster said upstream..it's not about safety. Have called my police several times about the speeding in my subdivision. Haven't seen them yet..although they promised they would come out. But it's not a place where ticket books would empty very fast. That belongs to major roads where high traffic is.

[pipi_k]

40. Well I can sort of see their point

maybe it is about the ticket books, and maybe it isn't.

But doesn't it make sense to patrol areas where there's a likelihood that more accidents/injuries would happen?

this is sort of the reasoning behind why it's not as scary to the police to conduct a car chase on a four lane highway as it is to conduct a car chase on crowded city streets filled with pedestrians, etc.

[florida08]

49. they can't do both?

Don't see the comparison. Chases are about someone who has just committed a felony usually. Speed traps go after anyone who is going over the limit at least once. Not habitual high speeders. If that was what they did no one would have a problem with it.

[Michigan-Arizona]

52. I lived by an elementary school year's ago

There was a stop sign where the kid's all crossed at. So many people didn't even bother to slow down for it so we as neighbors called the police begging them to do something about it, I even offered to let them sit in my drive way, they never did do anything about this problem. I so agree with you that it's not about safety at all!

[florida08]

57. thank you for your story

and that's exactly what I'm talking about. There use to be a time we could depend on them. I don't know what happened but when they arrest people in their own front yard for videotaping or something like this now ticketing people who flash their lights we've gone in the wrong direction.

[WingDinger]

43. Who the @#$# really believes this nanny state crap is even cost effective?

All our cops are out making money, instead of serving the public safety needs.

I had cops, and then a judge do a corruption gig on me. Fought it, Attorney Gen nailed their asses. Two months later guns in my face at midnite with bogus assertions.

How any Dem could support nailing people cuz the end result justifies the mean means is sad.

[shraby]

47. Another reason we have flashed our headlights that I haven't

seen mentioned is when a semi passes our car, when he is clear and can pull back into the right lane, we flash our headlights to let him know.

[Codeine]

50. How slow do you have to be going to get passed by a big rig? nt

[Blue_Tires]

53. in the south, those things can move when they are in a hurry

[shraby]

63. That was on the freeways. Works also on the 2 lanes..the

driver of the semi can't always see if he's past the car he's passing. They do it for each other is how we learned of it.

[lapislzi]

60. Yes, me too.

Most truckers are courteous and will flash back.

[KamaAina]

55. And yet radar detectors remain perfectly legal there

they voted down a recent attempt to ban them. :eyes:

[mfcorey1]

56. Wow! I do that all the time. nt

[truebrit71]

58. Yet another reason NOT to go to Floriduh...

..

[lapislzi]

59. I flash for all sorts of reasons

Where I live is notorious for deer strikes. I always flash motorists when I've spotted deer crossing or on the shoulder.

If I've passed an accident scene with congestion, I flash. If there's water on the roadway (also common), I flash. Or some other obstruction: debris on the road, tree down, whatever.

And, I flash for speed traps.

I consider it common courtesy, a little "look out ahead" to my fellow drivers. I'm always grateful when drivers give me a heads up for whatever reason.

Any cop who has a problem with that will catch an earful from me.