Niggardly

[Egalitariat]

A co-worker of mine used this word in a sentence today. He used it correctly, and in proper context. But I was still taken aback.

Its origins have nothing to do with the racial slur, but it just sounds so wrong.

I can't decide how I should feel about it.

[Motown_Johnny]

1. there are other words that would communicate the same message

just as well


I see no reason to use it

[Taverner]

136. +100

Miserly, Greedy, Stingy, Penny-Pinching, Mister Krabs, etc...

[Shagbark Hickory]

2. Would you like one of us to tell you how you should feel about it?

[ixion]

3. you shouldn't fee the same way you feel about the REAL 'n' word

in my opinion.

[Zywiec]

4. Anything that sounds wrong

even though most educated people know what it means, must be a racial slur.

:crazy:

[seabeyond]

5. i like the word, too. it has a specific meaning that only that word conveys

but

too many people dont get that it has nothing to do with the offensive word, so i dont use it, or seldom use it. sometimes, it is just the word

[WCGreen]

78. I used it in a post the other day...

[hlthe2b]

6. When I was growing up, the word "gay" had no other connotations,

and no group trying to use its later adoption as a term for homosexuals-- as a slur. It only meant happy. So, I ask you.. would you make an innocent comment about someone "seeming to be gay today" or would you worry about being misunderstood?

Of course niggardly has nothing to do with the "N" word... but unfortunately not all are sufficiently aware to know that. :shrug:

Vocabulary changes over time. Sometimes for the good and sometimes not.

[Aerows]

8. I'm gay

and I don't see being called gay as a slur. What I do see as a slur and what drives me up the way is the whole "That's so gay" thing like gay=something bad.

[hlthe2b]

11. I think you misunderstood as that is exactly the point...

If someone were to say to a group of people who did not know you that so and so "seems so gay today", the opportunities for misunderstanding are certainly there. Some might conclude that the speaker was saying that another was "so gay" as in your example ("that's so gay" as though gay were equal to something bad).

So, the old use of the term as merely "happy" has been largely lost because of the chance for being misunderstood. Of course it remains appropriate as a synonym for one who self identifies as homosexual...but to use it as a synonym for "happy" is too readily misunderstood.

[AsahinaKimi]

27. In the MOVIE "The Hang over"

As the movie opens, there is a scene where one sees a phone answering machine and can hear the phone machine pick up, followed by the phones message that says " Please leave your name and number at the beep ..oh and don't text me..that's so gay"


I mean come on, why are they using that in a movie? Couldn't they have just left that phase out? How many times over will that movie inspire people to want to use that? Then again, maybe they are trying to show that one of the characters is a bigot ass. (Though they do try do make dear the character.)

[itsallhappening]

41. Why leave it out? If it's part of a character's make-up, it should be there.

[Aerows]

43. I think the point though

is that it's not really necessary to get that point across about the character. I cringe when I hear it. You don't often hear other slurs like this and have it being ignored as acceptable. It's the casual usage of someone putting it on an answering machine message, you know?

I can't stand Katy Perry for a multitude of reasons, but the one in particular is the UR so gay song.

[itsallhappening]

47. The best solution is to walk out of the movie and ask

for your money back and don't buy any Katy Perry music.

The writer, director and producer decide what's best to illustrate aspects of characters. If a viewer doesn't like it, well, you're never going to please all the people all the time.

[Aerows]

57. Understood

but it is still pretty crappy. And I wouldn't go see Katy Perry if I was paid to go see her!

[Yupster]

26. It is funny when you read an old book

and they're having a gay party and you can't think the same about those characters the rest of the book.

[hlthe2b]

44. Or when you hear the Flintstone's theme song...

:) Sounds very old fashioned now.

[BOHICA12]

46. Two other words fraught with peril ... articulate & uppity

Have had to explain to my Yankee co-workers that they do not mean what they think they mean when directed toward an African American. Good Lord ... where did they get their education - Blinders On U?

[krispos42]

51. That 70's porno groove starts playing on your mental jukebox?

:rofl:



Yeah, I notice it to. "The Flintstones" theme song, for example.

[Occulus]

54. With those holiday greetings

and gay happy meetings
when friends come to caaaaaaaaallllll.....

It's the most wonderful time of the year!

[Divernan]

7. Educate yourself before you decide how you feel. Fight the dumbing down of America!

". . .the origin of "niggard" is unclear, but not its timeline, which predates the N-word in the English language by a couple hundred years at least. "Niggard" comes up as early as Chaucer, late 14th century. The most commonly speculated origin is Scandanavian nig/Old Norse hnoggr, meaning miserly. Don't know how much faith you want to put in Indo-European roots, but one meaning of the root ken- is conjectured to relate a family of words with a connotation implying closing, tightening, or pinching (the family of related words is hypothesized to include such n-words as nap, nibble, nod, nosh, neap, nip). The racial slur "nigger," on the other hand, doesn't enter the lexicon until the 1500's, first as "neger" or "neeger," obviously from the same root as the French negre and Spanish negro, words for the color black, which are derived from the Latin niger."

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1725/is-niggardly-a-racist-word

[Zywiec]

9. +100

[hlthe2b]

13. The OP did not suggest they did not know the true meaning of the term...

They were expressing concern because of the awkwardness of using the term around those who do NOT.

[Divernan]

34. The OP said it "was correctly used" - that is quite different from knowing the origin

We all use thousands of words a day "correctly", without knowing their etymology. Were we to stop correctly using terms for fear ill-educated people would misinterpret them, we contribute to the race to the bottom, i.e, dumbing down of the US.

This dumbing down and lesser vocabulary range is a worsening problem in the U.S., compared to other English speaking countries like the UK or Ireland, as reflected in the reading age level presumed of the general public.

I do agree that "niggardly" may be easily misunderstood, and I personally use other terms if I want to speak of someone behaving selfishly, or being tight-fisted, miserly, etc., unless I am talking with someone I know to be well-educated. Everyone is free to make that choice.

As long as the term is the subject of a thread here, I thought it appropriate to set forth it's meaning AND etymology.

Merriam-Webster dictionary:
Definition of ETYMOLOGY
1
: the history of a linguistic form (as a word) shown by tracing its development since its earliest recorded occurrence in the language where it is found, by tracing its transmission from one language to another, by analyzing it into its component parts, by identifying its cognates in other languages, or by tracing it and its cognates to a common ancestral form in an ancestral language
2
: a branch of linguistics concerned with etymologies
— et·y·mo·log·i·cal \-mə-ˈlä-ji-kəl\ adjective
— et·y·mo·log·i·cal·ly \-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
See etymology defined for English-language learners »


Origin of ETYMOLOGY
Middle English ethimologie, from Anglo-French, from Latin etymologia, from Greek, from etymon + -logia -logy
First Known Use: 14th century

[Zanzoobar]

10. We need some words like "Honkily" and "Chinkily".

That would even things out, and everyone could feel equally offended when their little ox was gored.

[aikoaiko]

12. I feel the same way when people order the baked pollock for dinner.

no, not really. Its an uncommon word that sounds like similar to a slur and also has a negative connotation, but I wouldn't like that linguistic coincidence ruin a perfectly good word.

[Nye Bevan]

14. Snigger

needs to be avoided for the same reason.

Because it's not enough to avoid using slurs. We need to avoid any word that sounds remotely like a slur.

[SidDithers]

128. Nailed it...

:thumbsup:

Sid

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. Some discussion here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22

[Zywiec]

18. From your link

See also
Tar baby, a term that has similarly been construed as racist
Water buffalo incident, a similar controversy involving remarks perceived as racist

"and as a nation we have a "hair-trigger sensibility" on race that can be tripped by both real and false grievances"

[Joe the Revelator]

16. I feel uncomfortable when baseball announcer say "bunt"

[guitar man]

48. !!!

:rofl: :spray:

[grantcart]

84. I on the other hand feel that it reminds me of my favorite bat.

a great snarky response.

DUzy worthy.

[Sheepshank]

116. As a foreigner in the US....

....it took me a while to stop sniggering over the football commentary term "penetration"

I guess that would be the color commentary.

[brooklynite]

17. How do people feel about using the word "Hello"?

Sounds like "Hell" doesn't it, even though the two words have nothing to do with each other. Wouldn't it be pretty silly to find "hello" offensive? Even fundamentalists don't seem to have a problem.

[Recovered Repug]

29. For a time there was a small movement

to answer the phone using "Heaven-o". It was started by a preacher in the mid/late '90's.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

19. Your co-worker should be locked up like every slimebag who practices pedagogy.

[Yupster]

28. Probably he admits to masticating

every single day too, often in front of children.

[RKP5637]

32. When young, I was really called out by my parents if I did not masticate properly! n/t

[grantcart]

85. sounds like a disgruntled worker

which raises the question of what is a 'gruntled worker'.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

20. It's a word that no one ever uses. Weird that it was used, regardless of context.

[Nye Bevan]

25. Yeah I hate those people with big vocabularies and their high-falutin' long words (nt)

[Codeine]

129. I've used it.

It's a very good word for specific circumstances.

[pinboy3niner]

21. I remember a big flap over this in D.C.: the David Howard incident

David Howard incident


On January 15, 1999, David Howard, a white aide to Anthony A. Williams, the black mayor of Washington, D.C., used "niggardly" in reference to a budget. This apparently upset one of his black colleagues (identified by Howard as Marshall Brown), who interpreted it as a racial slur and lodged a complaint. As a result, on January 25 Howard tendered his resignation, and Williams accepted it.<1>


However, after pressure from the gay community (of which Howard was a member) an internal review into the matter was brought about, and the mayor offered Howard the chance to return to his position as Office of the Public Advocate on February 4. Howard refused but accepted another position with the mayor instead, insisting that he did not feel victimized by the incident.


On the contrary, Howard felt that he had learned from the situation. "I used to think it would be great if we could all be colorblind. That's naïve, especially for a white person, because a white person can't afford to be colorblind. They don't have to think about race every day. An African American does."<1>


It has been speculated that this incident inspired Philip Roth's novel The Human Stain.<2>


From the Wiki page on "Controversies about the word 'niggardly':
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22#David_Howard_incident

(Reformatted for readability)

[Snotcicles]

22. To shoehorn a word like that into a conversation, they must have had an ulterior motive. nt

[Zywiec]

23. Yeah, like a superior vocabulary to most. n/t

[jannyk]

24. It's fairly common in the UK, in fact I also use it - what's wrong?

[MicaelS]

33. You need to buy a better grade of tinfoil..

That stuff you're using is letting the alien mind control rays leak through, again. :sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

98. it really does have a specific meaning that only that word holds and when using another word, it is

less

i disagree with you

[Codeine]

130. Verbal precision, most likely. nt

[BlueCheese]

30. It's a perfectly cromulent word.

Having said that, I'd probably also avoid using it given the chance of a misunderstanding. I'd also feel like a coward for preemptively bowing to imagined pressure. Not sure what the right answer is in this case.

I do agree that one should not think anything wrong about other people who use "niggardly" correctly.

[blogslut]

31. If he does it again, respond like this

"I like Dickens too but I prefer the word parsimonious. It's more poetic."

[stuntcat]

93. yah!

vocabulary's great and all, but this is a word that I'm afraid is hard to use without getting the wrong kind of thoughts going. To me it seems impolite to use it, honestly.

[MicaelS]

35. I'm a white man, and I get offended any time Elton John's

Honky Cat comes on the radio. I just KNOW he's talking about me. :crazy:

[DaveJ]

36. Who uses that word? (it's bad)

Let's see I cuss and I am not afraid to use almost any word in the English language, expect anything that sounds like the N-word. Why is that? Because I'm normal. Why would anyone use the word niggardly? Who uses that word? It's weird, it's unnecessary, get rid of it, it's just a word, it's not a spotted owl. A small price to pay for the labor of africans who built this country. I don't care what its origins are, anyone with any sensitivity knows what it sounds like.

[itsallhappening]

45. "I don't care what its origins are..."

Translation: "I'll make up my own origin and hold everyone to my standard."

By the way, you just typed "N-word" and caused dozens (maybe hundreds) of people to think about the actual word.

[DaveJ]

90. Shows how insensitive I am, and I still would avoid the word

That is, if I were a dork enough to use such a dorky word like 'niggardly' in the first place. People who say "the N-Word" are those clearly avoiding saying something worse, and showing sensitivity. I guess there are folks on the planet who like to use hoity-toity words, and their top priority is to make themselves look good at the expense of others. Drive me nuts. I don't understand why anyone would want to be that way. Nobody likes people who act hoity-toity, so why do people choose to behave that way. I admit that very few people like me, but absolutely nobody like hoity-toity types, so why would anyone act that way. But whatever, if people want to use the word it's obviously a free country. It's just wrong, imo.

[kimmylavin]

127. Hoity-Toity?

Seriously?

So what other words are "hoity-toity?"
Any word over three syllables?
Anything that goes beyond the most basic definition of a word?
Anything you determine to be dorky?

Should we all just keep our vocabularies simple, so as to avoid sounding hoity-toity?
Because nobody will like us if we do?

You don't like the word "niggardly," don't use it.
But please don't go advocating for the dumbing down of ALL language.
THAT's just wrong, imo.

Incidentally, I "want to be that way" because I love words, and I love finding exactly the right one for what I'm trying to express.

[Codeine]

131. I understand. Large vocabularies are often frightening. nt

[cwydro]

101. It's a perfectly good word.

Ridiculous.

[tawadi]

37. Basically, it's like this

If it may bother you for a reason, it probably truly bothers others.

Proper context or not, it probably is best to steer clear of the word (in the 21st century).

edited for content.

[Nye Bevan]

38. The word "picnic" should also be avoided

since some people (erroneously) believe that it is derived from "pick a nigger".

http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/picnic.asp

[Shandris]

64. Not even remotely the same thing.

One is a connotation that is incorrectly believed by a very small minority of people.

The other, using 'generic grammar rules', is drawn to a singular conclusion of what the word means if they are not aware of its' true meaning. By 'generic grammar rules', I mean the things that end up being made up words. You know, like irregardless, misunderestimate, inflammable, and so on. Confrontationally.

(Note: How depressing. Irregardless didn't even get picked up by the spellchecker, despite it not being a word. :( )

[muriel_volestrangler]

142. 'Inflammable' has been in use in English far longer than 'flammable'

Earliest known written uses, from the OED:

1605 T. Tymme tr. J. Du Chesne Pract. Chymicall & Hermeticall Physicke i. xiii. 54 The sulphurous substance and inflamable matter.

1813 T. Busby tr. Lucretius Nature of Things I. 731 That igneous seeds, no longer linked To matter flammable, become extinct.

[philly_bob]

39. 1. Don't get upset. 2. Don't use the word. (nt)

[itsallhappening]

40. "I can't decide how I should feel about it."

LOL. Why?

As you pointed out, it has nothing to do with racial slurs.

Now what? We're going to ban words that simply sound like other words that offend some people?

Here's how you should feel about it: Just like you feel about the word "sandwich" or "airplane."

[jtuck004]

42. I've replaced it with the word "Republican". Means much the same thing, though

perhaps one day that one will also be awkward to use.

[lynne]

49. "Bitch" for a female dog sounds wrong to me but it has nothing to do -

- with the offensive usage of the word and is appropriate for use in its given context. Should we feel bad about that word, too?

As far as "niggardly" - the two words are totally different in meaning and origin. They are spelled different. One is not derived from the other. You don't have to use that word but I certainly wouldn't recommend you confront someone for using proper English in an appropriate manner.

[Odin2005]

50. Wasn't a university president back in the 80s forced to resign because idiots thought that word...

...was a racist slur?

[wickerwoman]

52. Anyone who says "niggardly" or "faggot" in 2011 is a pretentious asshole

or is intentionally trying to stir shit.

Yes, one means "cheap" and one means "a bundle of sticks" but anyone who goes out of their way to avoid a perfectly fine word (like "cheap") to choose a synonym that also sounds like the world's ugliest racial slur either has their head *waaaay* up their ass or has an ulterior motive.

If he's over 70 excuse it on the grounds of crustiness. If he's under 70 avoid him like the plague.

[apples and oranges]

61. +1000

[kiva]

67. So it's good to discourage an people

from expanding their vocabulary...better to just use one syllable words that couldn't possible offend anyone.

[wickerwoman]

71. Yes. That's what I said on the nose.

I think it's great if people read more and expand their vocabularies. But people who use 16th century words like "japesome" or "nayword" in everyday conversation are showing off, not communicating. And people who pretend you can ignore all of the freight that comes with a word like "faggot" are either naive or think it's cute to play with fire or enjoy feeling superior when they get to explain to the "hoi polloi" that really if you were as smart as them you would know that what they said wasn't technically offensive.

Screw that. Part of being an effective communicator involves choosing words that get your message across to as many people as possible with as little potential for confusion or distraction as possible. And there is basically no conceivable situation in which "niggardly" is a more effective use of language than "cheap" "stingy" "miserly" "tightfisted" "mean" or "penny-pinching".

[REP]

73. Parsimonious is a better synonym than the ones you gave

I do not presume the people to whom I speak are idiots. I will use niggardly is that is the right word.

[wickerwoman]

75. When is it the right word?

Could you give me a specific everyday situation in which "cheap" or "stingy" would be inappropriate and "niggardly" wouldn't be pretentious?

[kiva]

108. This is why the term anti-intellectual is being used.

You say that using 'niggardly' would be pretentious. The whole notion that anyone should have to avoid using certain words, and using them correctly, because someone else thinks they are pretentious is the basis of anti-intellectualism..."You are saying something I do not understand. Stop. You are wrong to say things I do not understand. Stop."

[wickerwoman]

117. Oh horse puckey.

There's nothing anti-intellectual about pointing out that there is an appropriate context for language. And the appropriate context for "niggardly" is on Sir Walter Raleigh's poop deck not around the office water cooler.

Using words out of their proper context, not to communicate but to impress people with the fact that you know them, is pretentious. And there is nothing anti-intellectual about pointing it out.

I know what niggardly means because I was reading Shakespeare for fun when I was eight and I got a perfect score on my GREs. And I have never, ever in my entire life found an appropriate everyday situation for saying it. And my reaction if you said it to me in reference to paper clips or copier toner? You're a pretentious twit.

Words aren't just their dictionary definition. They're also a whole set of social agreements about when it is appropriate to use them. And if you think it's fine to say "Sirrah! You've been quite niggardly with the mustard on my hot dog" at the concession stand of a monster truck rally then you fundamently *don't* understand what the word means.

[enlightenment]

118. What a fascinating and utterly, completely

pretentious response.

When you have to haul out your presumed (unproven) bona fides in order to give your argument weight, you might as well give it up. You've lost.

[wickerwoman]

122. See post 121.

I wasn't using them to give my argument weight. I was responding the presumption that I didn't know what "niggardly" meant and that my reaction was a result of that. If you can see a better way to do that given an anonymous forum, I'd be happy to hear it.

Believe me or not. It's irrelevant to the point I was making. Any time you'd like to address that I'd be happy to continue the discussion with you.

[kiva]

120. Wow!!

A perfect score on your GREs? All of the areas? Verbal reasoning, quantitative reasoning, analytical writing and critical thinking? And you eat hot dogs at monster truck rallies when you're not hanging around the water cooler? You are so cool.

[wickerwoman]

121. I was responding to your argument

that I didn't know what "niggardly" meant and that my response to the use of it was because of resentment or ignorance. It isn't.

I got 800s in verbal and analytic and 730 in math. That was in '98 when there were only three sections. But that's not really the material point is it?

If you read carefully (a first for this thread), I think you'll see that I didn't claim to eat hot dogs or attend monster truck rallies.

And this discussion isn't actually about me. If you don't want to respond to the actual argument (that meanings of words include appropriate contexts for their use) then I guess we're done here.

[kiva]

125. "I guess we're done here. "

Agreed.

[Chef Eric]

133. Thank you for handing down this context law to us!

You're a modern-day Moses.

We would be lost without you, and we are forever grateful.

Most Sincerely,
The World's English-Speaking Community

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

123. You're always such the little rapscallion! n/t

[wickerwoman]

124. Yea verily baggage?

Anon cometh thy recompense.

[Whisp]

53. how about prick, I get taken back when that word is used.

Prick.

It could be something that busts a balloon, or a small ouch while using a needle

but when I hear PRICK, I think... I can't decide how I should feel about it.

[WillyT]

55. Remember... "You Can Prick Your Finger...

but you can't finger your prick."

- George Carlin

:shrug:

:evilgrin:

:hi:

[ZombieHorde]

62. You can if you try hard enough. nt

[Iggo]

96. Ooooooooh yes I can.

B-)

[McCamy Taylor]

56. It's all about context and intent.

[frogmarch]

58. I prefer "stingy" because

few people would claim the word is racist and make big deal about it.

[Honeycombe8]

59. I think I've read it before, but never heard anyone use it. Not sure what it means.

I find it hard to believe it's roots are in the "N" word. I'm going to look that up.

Does it mean cowardly? Just a guess.

[Divernan]

91. How can you not know? Read the whole thread before responding.

[Dreamer Tatum]

60. I think you just wanted to see how people feel about the word. nt

[Shandris]

63. I'm one who thinks that we shouldn't look for racism where it doesn't actually exist.

'The big black cloud of debt' being a good example. I felt there was no need to make an uproar over what was clearly a common descriptive.

HOWEVER. With that said, I would be more than a little upset over this word. For one, it's SO incredibly obscure that using it is more than just a nod to archaic speech, it's almost -daring- someone to say something.

Buy the man a thesaurus.

[dmallind]

65. Anti-intellectual shite

"Niggardly" is not obscure at all. Barely past the bottom decile of words on any scale of obscurity. Nobody who has read anything beyond See Spot Run could possibly confuse it with anything related to racial slurs. To pretend such a completely distinct word has any racial loading is absurd. What's next - having news readers refer to Goodluck Jonathan as the "president of the country next to Benin" (and of course refusing to refer to his VP at all)?

[Shandris]

66. Anti-intellectual my ass.

It's a word that absolutely NO ONE in my area would ever use, and I live in the heart of Poor Conservative Hell. In all my life, I've only read the word a few times. Of the THOUSANDS of modern books I've read, I've not read it once. Maybe it's common for your age, but at 40 most people don't know what it means. Nor do they know, or give a shit, who Goodluck Jonathan is. That isn't anti-intellectualism, that's simply reality.

Incidentally, few know what Benin is either, nor would they have the SLIGHTEST clue where to find it. Remember the vast amount of people who can't name our own Vice President?

Maybe you should get to know some 'normal' people before you go spouting off that it's anti-intellectual because it sounds EXACTLY LIKE a word that everyone and their mother knows is a racial epithet.

Perchance, however, contemplation on the necessity of the application of the verbose in simple communication would render an alternative perspective for your edification.

Or maybe not.

[dmallind]

97. So you say criticizing something because so few understand it is NOT anti-intellectual?

Y

[Shandris]

134. That is correct.

ANTI-intellectual is just that -- against intellectualism. Removing the word has nothing to do with being against intellectualism, it has to do with common usage of words, and the perceived usage of words. Does it matter that people mistakenly refer to anything attached to a computer that is visual as a 'monitor' even when that's not necessarily true? Of course not -- the VAST MAJORITY of people think a 'monitor' is 'that thing you see with with a computer'. So that's what it is.

A vast number of people, upon hearing the word and not knowing its meaning, would ascribe the meaning based on the most common use of suffixes. Something that is 'deadly' involves the possibility of death (dead). Something that is 'greatly' has something to do with 'extraordinary amounts (great)'. And something that is 'niggardly' would have something to do with...

If you want to fight for intellectualism, go right ahead. I'd pick a better starting point though. Starting with 'niggardly' is about as strategic as trying to correct Napoleon's mistakes by beginning at 4 pm at the Battle of Waterloo.

[Major Hogwash]

68. Wow, that's so offensive. In 2000, 7 of my co-workers came to work wearing their brown shirts.

On April 20th, Hitler's birthday.

When I saw them sitting at the same table in the cafeteria I called a security guard and alerted him to the situation.

[Nye Bevan]

72. Why? Did they set up an extermination camp in the cafeteria?

Or forcibly annex part of the parking lot?

[Lucian]

69. "Begrudging" is a better word.

I never use "niggardly." "Begrudging" is a much better word and it conveys the same meaning.

[eShirl]

70. Isn't he a clever one.

[U4ikLefty]

76. My thought as well.

[cherokeeprogressive]

74. PC Practioners should be bitch-slapped for bastardizing this word.

Just sayin'.

[Shandris]

86. Yes...because from your lingo, I can tell it SURELY is a...

...common word for you? Is that before or after the 'bitch-slap' that you find 'niggardly' so darn useful?

'Just sayin(g)'.

[McCamy Taylor]

77. I think we need a poll.

[Nailzberg]

79. I can understand your feeling on that.

The English language has plenty of other words to express the same idea.

I get the feeling that some people use it just to press some language snob point that its not etymologically related to the racial slur, but I won't use it because it may seriously derail the point I'm trying to express.

[Le Taz Hot]

80. It's one of those words that is perfectly legitimite

but is so close to that ugly word PLUS people are horribly illiterate nowadays anyways it just doesn't make sense to use it. Besides, there are too many other, less controversial words, that one can use.

[Raschel]

100. +1.

[BlueCheese]

81. No two words are equivalent.

Words may have synonyms, but they're still different. You may often choose one synonym over another because of connotations, regional usage, rhythm of the sentence, etc. If you're writing poetry, then word choice becomes even more important.

I'm extremely reluctant to make it a sin to use an inoffensive word correctly. Do this do many times and we get rid of English and end up with Newspeak.

[Cirque du So-What]

82. A great thing about the English language

is a tendency to have a stable full of words with similar meanings, providing a smorgasbord of choices. There are probably at least a couple dozen words that are close enough in meaning that don't sound like a horrifically racist word. To anyone who feels cheated from a lexicographical standpoint, I recommend taking a cursory glance at 'miserly' in a decent thesaurus; you'll very likely find a word that works just as well, and you won't be accused of passive-aggressive racist dog-whistling.

On edit: I suggest giving 'niggardly' its walking papers. It's practically archaic anyway, and the aggravation it causes - both to the user and to the audience - makes it worthless...unless you're TRYING to offend, then it's a godsend!

[Morning Dew]

83. Your thread turned into a black hole.

:rofl:

[IndyPragmatist]

89. racist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc1zGRUPztc

[Divernan]

92. OMG! Now you've done it! You used the dreaded "B" word!

[rucky]

87. Methinks thine coworker useth outdated language. n/t

[stuntcat]

95. +1

hehehe! :rofl:

(edit: IMHO, saying that now is just an excuse to say the word n___ to people.)

[emanymton]

88. It Is Queer That You Should Feel This Way.

.

The English language is so full of beauty. Use it. The word does not deserve to be shunned.

Of course, one needs to have courage to stand when faced with the slings and arrows of ignoramus filled mobs.

Ema Nymton
~@:o?
.

[jtown1123]

94. I believe it was around in the middle ages so it has no racial connotations. Still sounds bad though

[deutsey]

99. At the very least people should educate themselves about other incidents surrounding this word

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_the_word_%22niggardly%22

The first time I heard about any controversy around this word was when a white aide to the Mayor of DC (who was black) used the word correctly and still lost his job for it. He was later re-instated, but it created quite a stir when he first said it.

As the link above indicates, there have been other such incidents.

I think as with any form of communication you need to choose your words carefully, anticipate their possible connotations and allusions, and be sensitive to how your words can sometimes get in the way of what you're trying to say.

[Dreamer Tatum]

103. Unless you're going to imply that a Republican is gay, of course. nt

[ZombieHorde]

102. I don't use it because it sounds like a racial slur, which makes it stand out,

and may distract from what I am trying to say.

[dmallind]

104. Great site that demonstrates usage frequency

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/graph?content=niggardly%2Cparsimonious%2Cmiserly&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=3

The idea that "niggardly" is massively more obscure than "miserly" or "parsimonious", even now, or that it is a word found only in Victoriana, us shown as demonstrably false. Yes, the professionally offended blissninnies have done some fine work in demonizing the word to decrease usage a bit in the last couple of decades, but it remains quite close in usage frequency to the others.





Try putting in a REALLY obscure word like "homologate" (trying to find a similarly innocent but "sounds bigoted" word) for comparison on how "incredibly obscure" the word really is...

[seabeyond]

105. miserly doesnt quite work for me as replacement but parsimonious does

had to look it up. i will never remember how to spell it. but that works. interesting chart... cool

niggardly... 1. Grudging and petty in giving or spending. 2. Meanly small; scanty or meager: left the waiter a niggardly tip. ...


it is the emotion, manner it is done that miserly does not have.

[muriel_volestrangler]

143. My God! Data! Don't you realise the anti-intellectuals will hate you for that?

Spreading knowledge just isn't the done thing these days ...

[Whiskeytide]

106. "There are no bad words...

... only bad intentions." G. Carlin (rip). If you think the person who used the word did it to stir shit, you should be uncomfortable, and keep any eye on them. If you think they used it because they have a broad vocabulary and simply believed the term was appropriate to the conversation, quit worrying about it.

[TwilightGardener]

107. Imagine how it sounds to people who don't have much of a vocabulary, and don't

know the word's meaning.

[dmallind]

109. how does "homophone" sound to them? Or even "Volvo"?

Tailoring everything to the lowesst common denominator eventually sinks all to that level. The vocabulary of the average American is limited enough already without us losing even more words than we already have. Idiocracy was not supposed to be a documentary.

[kiva]

111. +1

[TwilightGardener]

114. I do think "niggardly" is a pretty bad one in terms of potential misunderstanding--

there are probably some situations where it's not a good idea to pull out your extensive vocabulary to impress people. In writing, fine, but in a workplace situation...no, I wouldn't ever use "niggardly".

[Shandris]

135. Wrong.

'Homophone' doesn't even phonetically begin the same as homosexual; while Homo Sapiens does, most people are aware of what it means. Watch people's reactions when a Brit comes to America and asks for a fag, though. There's a reason they pick up usage of the word 'cigarette' really quick.

Volvo? Using brand names is pretty silly, since brand names tend to imprint over most other knowledge. If I say Joseph Kellog, I'm willing to bet the first thing that comes to mind is Corn Flakes or something similar. Same with Ralph Keebler. If you think a Volvo is going to be related to a vulva (which, again, isn't even phonetically pronounced the same), well, suffice to say your mind works far differently than mine.

Take a more effective example: Cocksure isn't removed from the language. Neither is the South Carolina Gamecocks. Or Cockfighting. Why? Because 'cock' isn't universally known as ONLY having usage as a pejorative. Start making a bunch of posts with 'bitch' in it, though, and see how long it takes you to catch hell (and rightfully so) from other DU'ers.

[muriel_volestrangler]

145. Many people do pronounce 'homosexual' in an illogical way, it's true

ie they use a long 'o' for the first syllable; but the use of a short 'o', which makes sense because it comes from the Greek letter omicron (as, of course does the start of 'homophone'), is also fairly common. So the point about 'homophone' is a perfectly good one which you shouldn't just duck.

[itsallhappening]

126. No reason to cater to the stupid.

[TwilightGardener]

137. Not knowing a word doesn't make one stupid. This is not a word in common modern usage.

[slackmaster]

110. Pedagogue

Titular.

But I was still taken aback.

As long as both parties are consenting adults, I have no problem with that.

[dmallind]

115. ooh that's a good one - "ped" words

In French more so, but even in English.

Pedagogy is accepted by schoolchildren, pedantry is mildly annoying to them, but pederasty is definitely out.

[Shandris]

138. And those are fine. None of them have a full word in them...

...to be misunderstood. There will be people who don't know what you're talking about -- but not the vast number of people. And the number who don't know what it means won't ascribe a meaning to it with full racial connotations, if they don't just outright ask you what the hell you're talking about.

NONE OF THESE EXAMPLES IN THIS THREAD ARE EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE.

How about this one, speaking of French. We use a lot of 'a la' in English. Pie a la mode, for instance. Chicken a la King. Why not a la fuq? I mean, it just refers to a library, what could be improperly mistaken about that? Perhaps I should use it in front of a group of families, so the parents can teach their children intellectualism! "Alright, Smith family, today we're going to go a la fuq!"

[dmallind]

144. Actually two of the three do

And all of the three have homophonic syllables with the apposite noun.

Niggardly of course does not, unless your anti-intellectualism has sunk as low as "rap spelling".

Oh and niggardly has much more frequent usage than pederasty.

And I'm pretty sure bibliotheque is library (with a grave accent over the first e). The closest I know to fuq is le phoque which is a seal (animal). FUQ sounds like an acronym. The only one I know is the students' club of the University of Quebec.

So....nope not possible to be more wrong in one post than yours.

[muriel_volestrangler]

146. Strange thing is, "a la fuq" shows no results in Google, including in French

which makes it a damn weird claim you've just made.

[LanternWaste]

112. While I wouldn't use it in casual conversation...

While I wouldn't use it in casual conversation, I do come across the word more than a handful of times in academic works.

Different things offend different people, and I believe that a speaker has an incumbent duty to speak as much to the topic as possible with as little room for misinterpretation as possible. It's not as difficult as it may sound to size up and get a feel for our audience-- especially in a casual setting consisting of friends and family we already know.

Words do indeed have the power to change history, and I believe just a little bit of forethought and care would help us all to a very great extent.

[Iggo]

113. Oh jeez.

:eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

119. technically, the usage is fine.

in practice? I wouldn't.

[Chef Eric]

132. Why do you think you have to have feelings about it?

Do you have to have feelings about everything?

[DRoseDARs]

139. Encountered someone who'd never heard the expression "like trying to herd cats"; I was flabbergasted

Had to use sheep to explain the analogy.
...
Real. Live. Sheep.
/kidding

[Quantess]

141. Don't get your knickers in a bunch over it.

:hide: