The anti Obama sentiment from the HONEST left is Obama's own fault, in my view

[Stinky The Clown]

You can argue about all the conspiracy theories you wish about paid left wing opposition to him and the Professional left, and all that other bullshit. But when it comes down to it, the average, non-influential, non-insider lefty (like me and many, many others) is unhappy with Obama for things he did all on his own.

For me, the biggest was not even **trying** for single payer. Now, you can say he didn't have the votes or whatever else you wish in his defense, but he didn't even **try**. He IGNORED it. If he had at least **acted** like he tried, I would be in a different place right now. But. He. Didn't. Even. Try.

Not even the weak-assesd stimulus plan he put in place made me unhappier. And make no mistake. I was very unhappy that he spent so fucking little on direct job creation and so damned much on money for repubican causes, like tax breaks and such.

So yeah, ignoring single payer is what set my on a path to mistrusting him.

I have not been shown wrong yet. In policy after position after stance after plan after speech, I see so little from Obama that makes up for the failure that arises from his conflict avoidance, his timidity, his political ineptness, his pandering to the right, his "bipartisanship" bullshit.

Sure, some things have been done. But NONE of them are big enough, bold enough, or transformative enough to overcome the seed of mistrust that he sowed in the left wing fields starting as soon as he was sworn in.

If my only elective choice in 2012 is him or a repubican, he'll have my vote. But I would sure like another choice. No, I *don't* know who. It would have to be someone who could beat the repubican. I won't throw my vote away on a personal hero like Mario Cuomo as a protest write-in. I will vote for the party nominee. I will not, however, stop wishing it were someone other than Obama.

And he can have his peas back, uneaten.

[LonePirate]

1. Obama is not a king that I need to bow down to and respect for fear of my life

These continued right wing bullshit policies and actions of his have to stop before there is a revolt in this country.

[Kurmudgeon]

73. The anti Obama sentiment is the greatest friend the GOP could ever have.

Wait until you get another Bush, and the body count starts increasing.
And please, don't compare Libya to Iraq, two totally different situations.
No one has asked you to bow down, you're using hyperbole.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kurmudgeon]

111. No, I think the death count from George and Dick's decisions carries some weight.

And I suppose you're going to say that all parties are the same next.
I really DO NOT WANT a Republican back in power. That's because I'm a Dem and I have a conscience.
Now let's hear the next bashing of the President, I'm sure it'll be something puerile that helps GOP interests.

[Go2Peace]

116. My biggest argument with Party leadership is that it is LEADING to right wing rule

By "giving in" and not forcefully countering right wing ideology while proclaiming a strong alternative, we are doing greater harm. Third way policies are reinforcing right wing dogma and leading the public further astray.

[Armstead]

176. +1000

[tblue]

198. Whether we cave to Repubs or elect Repubs, either way they win.

You don't negotiate with monsters. And you don't ignore and chastise the people begging you to fight them WHEN YOU SAID YOU WOULD!

[Jakes Progress]

99. No. The greatest friend the GOP has is enabling "Democrats"

who support republican agendas just because a Democrat is pushing them.

Obama could have "had this" if he had delivered. He might have delivered if there hadn't been such a tight little ball of fury that would eat anything he served without complaint, without taste.

We all know where the blame lies, and it isn't with progressives.

[yardwork]

102. I agree with this. As the country moves hard right, enablers aren't helping our cause.

And I'll say this to Obama's reelection committee, just as I said to the paid canvasser who called me asking for a contribution to reelect Obama the other day:

I'm not happy. As a far-left Democrat bordering on Socialist, I am not happy with Obama's performance or his policies. I've never failed to vote for a Democrat and I vote in every single election, including primaries. This is the first time in my life I've felt so disillusioned with the Democratic Party I am considering voting Socialist just because I'm not sure my conscience will let me go along with the Democratic Party's stealth campaign to become Republicans lite.

And yes I know all about how horrible Rick Perry would be as president. I got that. That will probably cause me to grudgingly fill in the little black oval next to Obama's name, but it sure as heck is not motivating me to donate cash like I did last time, or volunteer, or try to talk my plumber into voting Democratic.

And that's a problem for Obama and a problem that his team needs to solve.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

106. And it's not "the country" moving right--it's the Establishment

Progressive initiatives, like taxing the rich, instituting single-payer health care, making it more difficult to outsource jobs, etc. consistently poll 50% or more.

[yardwork]

Very good point. The people don't agree with this, but too many will vote for it anyway.

[CrispyQ]

119. Well said. Especially this:

"And yes I know all about how horrible Rick Perry would be as president. I got that. That will probably cause me to grudgingly fill in the little black oval next to Obama's name, but it sure as heck is not motivating me to donate cash like I did last time, or volunteer, or try to talk my plumber into voting Democratic."

I spoke to dozens of people about Obama in '08. Won't be doing that in '12. Maybe all that corporate cash will make up for lack of enthusiasm from the left. :eyes:

on edit: Not so sure he'll get my vote.

[Kurmudgeon]

113. 2010 MidTerm had consequences, let's hope everyone remembers next time.

[Go2Peace]

118. Yes, Leadership lost the initiative by not providing a clear alternative

[yardwork]

133. The Party primaried North Carolina's best chance to elect a Democratic senator

Let me tell you about 2010. North Carolina had a great candidate for Senate - Elaine Marshall. She would have won but the Democratic Party pushed a "centrist" in the primaries and by the time she secured the nomination she was out of money. So Republican Richard Burr was reelected in North Carolina. Stupid, stupid, stupid move by the Democratic Party.

Happened all over the country. The Party and the White House pushed right wing third way "centrists" who lost. If the Party and Obama had supported the left-wing candidates who had the support of the people in those states then the 2010 election would have been different.

[Jackpine Radical]

137. Blanche Lincoln.

Same thing.

We were all blaming Rahm for it back then, but he was just expressing the will of his boss.

[yardwork]

193. Yes. All over the country this happened.

[dsc]

207. I could have lived with the primary

but what really pissed me off was that they didn't refill her coffers and didn't get their candidate to drop out instead of insisting on a run off. I have no idea if we could have beaten Burr given the horror story that election was here, but any chance we had of doing so evaporated with Marshall's money.

[yardwork]

212. Yes, the runoff was when I parted company with the Democrats. I may vote Democratic

but I now identify as a Socialist. Should have done that a long time ago. I will never contribute to the Democratic Party again. They lost me.

[Claudia Jones]

136. the odd thing about that

The administration and the conservative Dems actually seemed happy about the outcome of the 2010 elections. It was obvious that they did. I think it enabled them to slip back into their comfort zone and get back to "lesser of two evils" business as usual.

[newspeak]

152. yes, 2010 has consequences

and you can go back on the DU board and see some of the responses. The pro health ins. corporation bill-doctors, nurses, single payer advocates, some arrested for protesting. Closed door meetings with pharma and insurance corporations. Obama's cabinet picks. Someone tell me why Obama appointed Summers, why Geithner, why Duncan? Why? Why keep Little boot's retreads, why keep Patreaus instead of bringing back those generals dismissed by Little boots--why keep Little Boot's "loyal" CIA? Why?

And, back then I stated that I would vote and hoped that he would get MORE of a majority-"to put his money where his mouth is"; but if the house or the senate gained any type of repug majority, it would be an excuse to do some very damaging policies and cry how ineffectual we are. Because all of the apologists in the world doesn't make up for why he chose those appointments at the advent of his presidency.

[rhett o rick]

161. Yes, we need to rid the party of the Koch-Democrats. nm

[mitchtv]

181. yeah, the Dems sure screwed that one up

by being spineless cowards,They Lost it all by themselves

[Jakes Progress]

210. The administration is who needs to remember...or finally learn.

Those consequences came from a timid administration and an appeasing president. That is not what got him elected.

[FirstLight]

150. +100000000000000000000000!

I want to hear more of this. Make it an OP, scream it from the rooftops, make them sweat...tell it to their faces.

They. are. all. crooks.
The corporatizatyion of America is the fact that these 'representatives' are all bought and paid for by the interests of Big oil, the MIC, monsanto, the banks, etc...it makes no difference the little (R) or (D) by their names.
Yes, the Rethugs are nuts and will bring us closer to the precipice of destruction faster...but really, they ALL have a hand in the dismantling of the America we believe we live in.

And yes, I think the President has his cake and is eating it too. he knows he has us over a barrel to some extent. All he has to do is pretend to make some changes in the next year and he'll get re-elected...if for no other reason that that we have no choice....compared to the likes of perry & bachmann

Democracy has left the building a long time ago.

[rhett o rick]

164. Agree. Rid the party of the Koch-Democrats. nm

[Mosaic]

138. Sad but true

Any president, even a progressive one, will still be a savage imperialist. The Mic owns this warring state.

[roguevalley]

157. actually it isn't. letting him know public opinion is patriotic

honestly, I am DELIGHTED I was born and raised in America before fascism when having your say wasn't considered treason.

[rhett o rick]

162. Wrong, the greatest friend of the REpublians are the Koch-Democrats that enable Pres Obama's move

against Democratic ideals. Republicans love the help from the Koch-Democrats to move the party to the right.

[StreetKnowledge]

169. Ah yes, another "we must support Obama because otherwise the world is gonna end!!!" type.

I'm through with him. Completely. I'm voting third party, and if that helps a GOP candidate, so be it. We cannot become Republicans to beat them, which is what Obama has been trying to do. He is going to be officially known as the weakest President in modern history, who allowed his opposition to destroy his agenda and emboldened them to go completely into la-la land. You want to know why Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann are real candidates? Because Obama and his Dem majorities didn't even make the attempt to make them look crazy. The media, being that they are complacent idiots who very rarely do any real reporting, aren't gonna make much of an impact, and what we have now is our vision being swamped by a party full of bigots, warmongers, crackpots and lunatics.

Why?

Because OUR MAN did not do his job.

No real progressive should be voting for Obama in 2012. NONE. And if that gets us Rick Perry as POTUS, so be it. Why would I say this? Because if you vote for him, you are rewarding his complete and total disregard of us, the people who got him elected. You will be happily playing to the GOP tactics of forcing America right. The Democrats need to learn that betrayal has consequences, and only we can teach them. You think the GOP's insanity is going to lead to big liberal Dem majorities? Anybody who thinks that needs their head examined. If we want to save America from the insanity, we have to make the Democrats remember who they get votes from.

[tblue]

201. Okay. And what will be his campaign theme & slogan?

I'd love to know what he will run on. Please tell me.

[Jakes Progress]

211. There are two slogans.

Wait You Can Hope For

and

At Least He's Not (fill in the blank)

Otherwise, I'm sure I can't figure out what he stands for.

[LaydeeBug]

214. NO, Obama's pro GOP POLICY MAKING is the GOP's Best Friend.

Obama has proven that the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[roguevalley]

156. times infinity, LonePirate

[Mojambo]

2. Pretty much perfectly states where I'm at.

If he's the nominee, he'll get my vote.

But he hasn't earned it, and I wish very much that I could give it to someone else.

[joshdawg]

104. Agreed!

Pretty much disappointed with Obama, but, if he's nominated, he'll get my vote.
I have to vote and I have to vote for the Democrat. Not to do so would get a right-winger in office. We already have seen what that can do for the country. bush, cheney,mcccain, et al, ad nauseum.

[Jackpine Radical]

141. A lot of that going around.

It's not that the "professional leftists" will stay home. It's that they won't work to bring anybody with them to the polls.

That has been deadly in the past, but maybe the game is all changed now after thew Plutocrats United decision. Maybe the Dems will pull in enough corporate money so they can afford to hire enough ex-felons & whatnot to replace the volunteers they used to have.

[monmouth]

3. I'm starting to think of Obama the way I felt about George Bush. I'm

not too sure I'm even going to watch/listen to his speech next week. He doesn't seem to be representing or fighting for the things I, as a Democrat, think are important. What I feel badly about is he could have been so different, made such an impact and gone down in the history books as the first black president and one that really made a difference. I lost that feeling a while back when actions did not follow the "words." I'm tired of words, pretty or not.

[Peregrine Took]

10. Me, too. When I look at him I see someone who wants to hurt me - like Bush.

[tblue]

202. As someone who doesn't care what I think and feel.

He doesn't.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[monmouth]

19. Thank you..n/t

[MissDeeds]

40. I feel the same way

It's difficult to listen to him anymore. His speeches during the last campaign filled many with hope that things would really change, that he would be the one to steer the country away from the Bush policies that have done so much harm. Although his words are still eloquent, they ring hollow - been there, heard that. Too much remains unchanged. I don't give a rat's ass what he says he'll do, I look at what he has done - and not done. The direction he has taken does not inspire hope and confidence. We need the change he promised - if not from him, from a Democrat who is not afraid to lead.

[cyberpj]

94. Yep. Obama's a major disappointment. Big words - no action. (Unless that was the original plan)..

Which wouldn't surprise me. Not much does anymore.

[OswegoAtheist]

41. I disagree

I see W. as a person who had a very clear-cut view of what he believed America (and, because of that, the rest of the world) should be. His interpretation was a quasi-free market economy that benefited and rewarded businesses based on their scope and magnitude. i.e.: the larger a corporation was, the greater it should be rewarded (not proportionally, but on what we would refer to as a regressive scale). He pictured a Middle East with a strong, centrally-located US military presence, with puppet democracies that are ultimately beholden to American interests. Bush's problem is that, because of his strange obsession with American exceptionalism and Neo-Conservative focus on "table bully" foreign relations, he overestimated this nation's ability to do both at once, which is an impossibility.

President Obama, on the other hand, has a clear-cut vision, but has no will to see it done. Instead, he sees politics as an arena for compromise. He truly believes that his vision of what America should be is no more or less applicable than that of, say, Eric Cantor. He subscribes to the idea (and I think he's even made statements to the effect) that each side has viable and practical solutions, and compromise means sitting down and hashing out which ones are best, and essentially mocking up a patchwork agreement from the original ideas.

The problem with this approach is that both sides aren't playing to the same goal. The singular goal of the Republican side is not to make the American economy, nation, or people better; it's simply to undermine his administration, damn the consequences (for the hoi polloi, anyway). It's because of this, combined with Obama's "compromise at all costs" approach to policy, that Obama has been on an inevitable crash course with reality.

Oswego "tl;dr: If your house was on fire, Obama wouldn't call the fire department because he believed someone else would; W. wouldn't call the fire department, since he's the one who burnt your house down in the first place." Atheist

[FredStembottom]

43. Thaks, OAtheist! The O=W analogy is just wrong.

But I'll be damned if O doesn't keep driving towards it!

[rhett o rick]

165. Agree, one hit us with a stick 10 times while the other, only 2 times. nm

[SixthSense]

44. He has a poor understanding of business

On the one hand he seems to think business in general is conducted on the basis of incentives, and not on the basis of organic supply and demand. The big problem with this approach is that all the progress is undone once the incentive money stops flowing - then that money is spent, the problem remains unsolved, and we end up deeper in the hole than we started - and when all is said and done it turns out that more of the incentive money is eaten up by debt payments, overhead, or simple fraud, than goes to its original intended purpose.

On the other he seems to be naive to the full scope of the danger of the concentration of power in very large corporations and the threat they can pose to the legitimacy of the political system.

[Exilednight]

64. There is no such thing as "supply and demand". It's a complete myth. I'm not arguing

that incentives are a good idea either. But supply and demand is only real if what the actual supply "is" was priced according to what demand "is". If supply and demand were true, then housing prices would drop like complete bricks and McMansions would be selling for pennies on the dollar. Instead, banks sit out foreclosed houses and wait for someone to come along to offer a price that THEY deem fair.

[justabob]

46. very well said

"...he could have been so different, made such an impact and gone down in the history books as the first black president and one that really made a difference."

That right there is what kills me. We could have had a lot of things that we don't have now, a lot more than anyone expected, but there was absolutely NO effort. The votes weren't there thing doesn't wash. If he had wanted to, he could have easily had the 60+% people that want out of the wars, taxes on the rich, public health care etc excited and mobilized and inundating their congresspeople etc... it wouldn't have taken that much effort by him. He didn't even try a little bit. I don't know what to think about WHY he has been this way, the various possibilities are all bad. Whether he just sold out for the money, or if he really is a neocon with softer edges, or what.... The Republicans were dead not very long ago and somehow this super smart guy has managed to let them get the better of him almost every single time. He has made a difference alright, it just isn't the kind we were hoping for.

edit typos

[Shining Jack]

50. Same here.

I used to love the guy but now I don't even click on the vids posted here anymore. Really bad for my blood pressure. :(

[Lydia Leftcoast]

109. "Words words words, I'm so sick of words

I get words all day through
First from him now from you
Is that all you blighters can do?"

[bayareamike]

4. Yup. Well said.

This is how I feel as well. Will I vote for him over a crazy Republican? Of course. Has he disappointed lefties like me time and again? Yep. I keep telling myself that it is only possible to change the system incrementally, but President Obama has shifted right on a multitude of issues.

[Rageneau]

5. I'm still ticked at him (and Axelrod) for calling the Clintons 'racist.'

Calling the Clintons racist when everyone on earth KNOWS they are NOT racist -- IOW, knowingly slandering them for the sole purpose of winning the primary -- was my first indication that this then-unknown Obama fellow had a character problem.

All he has done since is prove that to me again and again.

[TwilightGardener]

6. LOL...still remember Hillary touting how she was the choice of "hard working people...WHITE people".

The Clintons aren't racist...but they weren't afraid to "go there" to win.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[johnaries]

7. Why does what you call the "honest" Left persist in being dishonest?

Although I support a single-payer system, it was never a possibility. Obama never suggested a single-payer system, nor did of the viable Dem candidates.

He has given us near-Universal healthcare. He has repealed DADT. He has instructed the DOJ to stop defending DOMA. He has repealed torture. He is on course to get us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. The Lily Ledbetter Act, the CARD Act.....

NONE of those are "big or bold" enough for you?

Let me ask you this; WHO do you think could have done better, or even as much?

[Rex]

9. Mrs. Clinton?

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/08/19/obama-touts-single-payer-system/

“If I were designing a system from scratch, I would probably go ahead with a single-payer system,” - Barack Obama.

But that was just to a few thousand people...so you know... :eyes:

[NewJeffCT]

95. If you think that article makes it sound like he supported single-payer

you didn't read the whole article. He made it clear that if we started from scratch, single payer would be the best option...however, he then went on to say:

“People don’t have time to wait,” Obama said. “They need relief now. So my attitude is let’s build up the system we got, let’s make it more efficient, we may be over time—as we make the system more efficient and everybody’s covered—decide that there are other ways for us to provide care more effectively.”

The healthcare plan that both he and Hillary had put on their websites before the election during the primaries were not in any way, shape or form a single-payer system. In fact, while both plans were similar, most people regarded Obama's proposal as slightly more conservative than Hillary's plan.

Now, if you wanted to argue that single-payer didn't get a seat at the table - that's fine. If you wanted to say that Obama dropped the public option too quickly - that's fine. If you wanted to argue that he did a piss poor job of promoting the benefits of the plan and the problems with the current system - that's fine. Heck, those things piss me off every day.

However, you can't say that he campaigned on a single-payer system. There is absolutely no evidence of that, unless you take a single quote like that out of context.

[Rex]

159. Try as you might, you failed the objective.

Not that you knew what it was, but thanks for the lengthy reply...to bad it was a waste of time.

[NewJeffCT]

177. you were the one quoting Obama

like he was promoting a single-payer system, when he was not.

There are a ton of things you can legitimately criticize Obama about from the left, but saying he campaigned on single-payer is just not true.

[Rex]

184. But that wasn't my point.

But you go ahead and keep trying to make it so...eventually it will sink in that you have no clue as to what I meant.

[NewJeffCT]

187. Yes, Clinton might have done a better job

but, your post also linked to an article that quoted Obama on single-payer in response to the OP of saying Obama never campaigned on single-payer

[Proud Public Servant]

12. It doesn't matter

if single-payer wasn't a possibility. Negotiation Lesson 1 is that you start with your ideal position and negotiate to an acceptable one. The GOP knows this; apparently, the president does not.

The president has done much I admire, including most of the things you list (though I don't know what "repealed torture" means, especially since Bagram and Gitmo are still open). But he could have asked for more when the Dems controlled Congress (including single-payer, a bigger stimulus package, and an end to the Bush tax cuts). And -- and this is the most important point -- once the Dems lost control of Congress, he could have fought against the rabid, insane extremism of the GOP. Not bemoaned it, not scolded it, and certainly not compromised with it (at least not right away). Fought it, like a great Democratic president would have.

As for who could have done better: say what you will about Hillary (and I voted for Obama over her), she was ready to take on the GOP and knows a hell of a lot more about how to get things done in DC.

[ihavenobias]

18. Bingo.

If you want to sell your house for $300,000 the list price you open with can NOT be $300,000, it must be higher. Of course the buyer will give you a lower offer and you go back and forth until you compromise on a price.

But Obama always opens with what he hopes to end with. Actually no, often his opening offer is right of center, so after the Republicans continue to hack away at it we end up with largely what Republicans want time after time.

Opening with the public option guaranteed we wouldn't end up with a public option. The right wing media immediately painted a public option as the radical left government option. Even Obama's strongest non-critics have to concede this was (at the very least) an epic political/negotiation failure. Had he opened with single payer the public option would've been positioned as the moderate, reasonable compromise.

[davidwparker]

57. +1

[Lydia Leftcoast]

110. Yes, you'd think someone who'd been to law school would know more about

negotiating...

"Always start by asking for more than you think you can reasonably get."

[QC]

222. Or, failing that, you'd think he might have been to a flea market or yard sale

at some point and picked up the basics of bargaining.

You know, the part where the seller asks for more than he or she is actually willing to take for something, so the buy offers considerably less and so on.

[tomp]

121. not true.

it always puzzles me why people think starting high is a necessary condition of negotiation.

there are other methods, i.e., start with your bottom line and don't budge, period. I want to sell my house for $xxx. Pay me $xxx or i won't sell it to you. done.

frankly, in certain types of negotiations (labor, e.g.) i favor starting with the bottom line and going UP. labor tells mgmt. this is our bottom line. every day you fail to agree to this, our demands will increase and that will be our new bottom line from which we will not retreat. this, of course, requires strong solidarity and leadership and willingness to strike over your bottom line. it has the advantage of not wasting people's time.

[johnaries]

42. Single-payer wasn't even on the table with Dems. I don't know how

much you remember about the Health Care debate, but Single-Payer was never available even as a bargaining chip.

And, yes, he ended torture by declaring that all interrogation techniques follow the Army Field Manual. As for GITMO, he issued an Executive Order to close it - but Congress defunded it. They no longer use torture, however.

I think that Hillary has done a great job as SOS, but no way she could have accomplished as much as Obama. If so, Hillarycare would have passed.

[dgibby]

86. The point that everybody is making is that

single payer SHOULD have been on the table. We all know it wasn't. THAT'S the problem. Nobody thinks the repubs would have agreed to it. We're not stupid; however, had he started the negotiation with something so odious as single payer, it's quite possible the repubs would have welcomed the public option compromise. His negotiation skills are non-existant.

[Armstead]

182. THAT'S the problem

NOTHING of substance is ever put on the table by Democrats like Obama.

That lack if any vestigev of support for actual reform and change by Beltway Insiders and Democrat Centrists is why we have allowed thev GOP Corpirate Right Wing to drive this country into the ditch for three decades

[TransitJohn]

28. "He has given us near-Universal healthcare." NO HE HASN'T

He has given us compulsory extortion and racketeering, aka for-profit health insurance, with no cost controls built in. Insurance is not health care.

[Shining Jack]

51. +1

I was about to post something similar to what you're saying but you said it better than I would have.

[davidwparker]

58. +2

[dgibby]

88. Well said!

Thank you.

[yardwork]

105. Thank you.

[Exilednight]

65. Let's get a few things straight.

First: DADT has not been fully repealed.

Second: There is nothing in the law he signed to repeal DADT that makes being gay legal in the military. It just means that DADT is out the window, but it doesn't mean gay soldiers can openly serve and not be discharged from the military.

Third: It's true he never offered a universal HC system, but he did not campaign on what was sold to us.

Fourth: Access to care, not access to health insurance, but access to care has not been improved.

Fifth: He never addressed the core problem of health care - rising prices. Instead, what he said would lower prices has actually raised them and everyone on the left warned him that this bill would do exactly that.

Sixth: DOMA is still be defended, just not by the justice department.

Seventh: He might of repealed torture laws, but he hasn't actually ended the physical abuse of US captives.

Eighth: There is now talk of having permanent bases in Iraq, and eventually Afghanistan. Directly against what he campaigned on.

I could go on and on, but you can, hopefully, see the pattern.

[tblue]

208. Well if you're gonna be picky! No, you are 100% right.

Lots of missing exceptions, caveats, and details, plus all the unmentionable "accomplishments," like drone attacks that kill children abs other civilians.

Has one gay servicemember been reinstated in the military?

Have we stopped extraordinary renditions?

Do we now assassinate American citizens? Something Bush never did, far as we know.

Are known torturers and war criminals free to go on book tours?

Has deep water drilling resumed in the Gulf?

What can make up for any of this?

[uponit7771]

68. ALL of these responses IGNORED congress as if it doesn't exist, FUDrs, bashers and baggers do this 2

[Stinky The Clown]

205. You're talking as if everyone is condeming him for not getting single payer. That's wrong.

People are pissed because he never even **tried**.

Please tell me you can see the difference in those two positions.

[jefferson_dem]

76. Truth is, many demands on this president are wholly unreasonable...

and many real accomplishments are wholly unappreciated.

The worst part is these same "critics" have a single primary objective at this point: divide Democrats. We cannot let them win.

[Enthusiast]

115. Critics of the President

do not want to divide Democrats. How absurd. If we had the support of the non-critics maybe we could move the President in a traditionally Democratic Party direction. He said as much himself.

[Mosaic]

145. Don't be naive

The fakes are everywhere. The cons are so fearful of "socialism", you have to read between the lines on most comments. Don't trust anyone, even if they have 1000s of posts!

[Enthusiast]

204. Me, naive?

You must be new.

[Claudia Jones]

143. everything is

Everything worth fighting for is "unreasonable."

[John Agar]

189. It's the president and his putrid posse of political incompetents...

That are dividing us.

By trying to force REPUBLICAN policies down our throats.

I hate the division as much as you do, I suspect, but we obviously disagree on the source.

[russspeakeasy]

78. "who could have done better?" Obama could have done better.

I give him an A for showing up and a C- for for effort. :evilfrown:

[John Agar]

191. Easy grader!

I give his 2008 campaign an A- and his presidency a D-.

If he loses re-election, which I might add he sees determined to do, I will switch that second grade to an F.

[CrispyQ]

123. "He has given us near-Universal healthcare."

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thanks for the best laugh of the morning!

Mandated health insurance does not equal healthcare.

[Bette Noir]

128. If we have "near-universal health care," as you claim, how come

the discharge planner at the hospital is so worried about the expense we're going to face from home health, when my husband is discharged? Because we do NOT have "near-universal health care" in this country. The only thing the health care reform law did is give Americans the right to buy insurance, at whatever cost the insurance company sets, STARTING IN 2014. My husband's current illness is going to set us back thousands of dollars, possibly tens of thousands, in spite of our having given 80% of our current income to the insurance company for COBRA coverage, since he lost his job last year.

Who do I think could have done better? Obama could have, but he chose not to. He has twisted himself into a pretzel trying to get a bunch of old white racists to like him, while alienating the people who supported him in the first place. That's not three-dimensional chess, that's delusion.

[rhett o rick]

166. Do you want the list? He wont prosecute war criminals allowing them to come back and do it all

over again. There is more but wasted on the New-Democrats.

[hifiguy]

8. Well said, Stinky!!

I am a structural Marxist and my politics are best described as Scandinavian Social Democrat and I have never received a dime for anything I have ever done or said politically. I have been voting for Democrats since I turned 18 in 1974. I door-knocked for Obama in '08.

I was ecstatic when Obama was elected and felt that for the first time I was making a truly positive choice for POTUS. I expected significant change both domestically and in foreign policy. I believed the things I heard watching that speech in Denver in 2008. I didn't expect all of it to be accomplished overnight, but I expected steady progress in that direction, and that he would be a man who fought for the things he said he believed in. I am totally, completely and profoundly disappointed in this president to the point of complete disgust.

Sometimes it is better to fight nobly and bravely for a losing cause than to just turn turtle. And I have seen this president do nothing but turn turtle, cave in, compromise and sell out the principles of the once-great party of the American People, the Democratic Party. This man stands for nothing and has done much to further the corporate/plutocratic subjugation of the Constitution and the American people. Wars are expanded, more innocents are slaughtered (by remote control, no less) and the insanity goes marching merrily on.

Like Popeye, I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more.

"If my only elective choice in 2012 is him or a repubican, he'll have my vote. But I would sure like another choice.I will vote for the party nominee. I will not, however, stop wishing it were someone other than Obama." Amen to that, brother. And one or two more caves like the that on the clean air regs and Bernie just might get a write in from me.

[alsame]

11. K&R. After the 2008 election, I never dreamed I'd have to

hold my nose to vote for him in 2012. And I'm sad that I have to.

We had a great opportunity to turn this country around, he had a mandate and could have mobilized people to help create the change they yearned for.

[ThomWV]

13. It was last December, and the renewal of the Bush Tax Cuts that did it for me

And what did it was this. He knew it was bad for the country. I don't mean he knew it would do the country no good but must be done to appease the Republicans. What I mean is he had to know that renewing those tax cuts would put this country on a downward spiral that could not be reversed. But he did it anyway. And I knew then and there that I could never vote for him again.

[dgibby]

97. You know what else he did deliberately, knowing full well

it was bad for the country? He turned away from Keynesian economic policies to Milton Friedman voodoo economics as soon as the republicans won the house. He also abandoned the public option, although everyone knows health care costs are killing the economy, not to mention the citizens.

[dawg]

14. Willingness to entertain raising the Medicare age to 67 did it for me.

Stupid policy. Stupid politics.

[mod mom]

15. agree. I have to wonder who is gonna GOTV for him. He's pissed off union friends, progressives,

environmentalists. If he thinks those fat cat DLCers types are going to to legwork, he's in for a sad discovery.

[ClarkUSA]

22. I will. Environmentalists like his many other actions and a large majority of liberals support him.

The union members who aren't Republicans know he's on their side, too, because of his actions (making it easier to join unions just last week, for example).

[Stinky The Clown]

26. Rich Trumpka's unions are repubican? Really?

Who knew?





Man, this thread really became a burr under your saddle, huh? Three replies to it from you. Two of them were completely off base, but there they are.

Hahahahaha

[ClarkUSA]

29. Who said that? You're making a strawman argument.

Guess you never heard of Reagan Democrats?

[Stinky The Clown]

31. Is there some purpose to you being here in my thread?

[ClarkUSA]

33. LOL

[yardwork]

134. I think we all know the answer to that.

[rhett o rick]

163. I see you are trying to have a discussion with "ignored". I gave up on those guys. nm

[Shining Jack]

52. "Environmentalists like his many other actions and a large majority of liberals support him."

Hum, no.

[yardwork]

107. Got a link to a single genuine environmentalist who likes Obama's actions?

[RetroLounge]

126. Environmentalists like his many other actions

:rofl:

RL

[Fuddnik]

158. They're really loving being locked up in DC right now.

Just like those civil rights marchers back in the '60s enjoyed those fire hoses on a warm day.

And they had puppies to boot!

[truedelphi]

38. But the problem for the nation as a democracy is that the Highest Office

In this land, will end up going to whomever the Powers that Be have chosen. As the voting machinery is still in a most deplorable state. And if a reporter in the Rolling Stone this week is to be believed, fewer Democrats will be eligible to vote in a dozen states that have new, convoluted rules to keep many voters away from the polling places.

We can see now that the Powers that Be knew before we did that Obama would be working for the big Financial People, Big Oil. And Big Military, Big Insurers and Big Pesticide concerns. Which is why the Powers that Be didn't interfere with the "will of the people," back in early November 2008.

Then for at least thirty months, they fed us the "He can't possibly give anyone a pony," and "Ignore the Pro-Corporate appointments, he needs time. Give him three years at least!" "It's not Kabuki Theater, it's nineteen stages of high level chess." And on and on.

But now more and more people are figuring it out.

People turn on the TV, and who looks really Presidential? Any Democrats? Any Republicans?

No, the most Presidential-appearing and acting elected official is one Senator Bernie Sanders, who gave up on the Democratic Party a long time ago.

And of course, if party leaders of the DLC and the Republican party had asked some hard questions about exactly who was behind the Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr, and Kennedy assassinations, and the Ronald Reagan almost-assassination, and asked these questions some time ago, maybe RFK Jr (D) and Ronald Reagan Jr (R) would be running against each other in 2012.

[MadHound]

16. Excellent post, thank you n/t

[ClarkUSA]

20. Cuomo accepted $$ from the Koch Bros. then lowered taxes on the rich while slashing school budgets.

Just months in office, he clashed with unions, garnered the compliments from prominent conservatives like Sarah Palin and Rudolph W. Giuliani and received thousands of dollars in campaign money from the New York billionaire David H. Koch, who with his family has helped financed the Tea Party movement.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/c/andrew_m_cuomo/index.html

I just left the New York State Capitol, where demonstrators were streaming into the building to protest Andrew Cuomo's state budget. The budget gives tax breaks to millionaires in a state loaded with them while making devastating cuts to education in the poorest school districts. The demonstrators plan to spend the night at the Capitol, inspired by the example of protesters against Republican Governor Scott Walker... The editors at the Times highlighted the injustice of that gap in another editorial a few days later, in which they compared two school districts, echoing Mario Cuomo's portrait of two cities. In wealthy Syosset, which offers almost 30 Advanced Placement courses to children who graduate to Ivy League schools, Cuomo proposed to cut $212 per student. In upstate Ilion, which has one AP class and where one-third of the students qualify for the school lunch program, Cuomo's budget cut $688 per student.

The buzz around Albany is that this is all about Andrew Cuomo's insatiable desire to be president based on a strategy of being a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. At the same time that Cuomo has insisted on giving tax breaks to the rich, he's begun pressing the State Legislature to legalize gay marriage... ending millions of dollars to push Cuomo's budget plan don't hear that well either.

One courageous New York Senator is rejecting the calculus that civil rights will trump economic rights. Manhattan Senator Thomas Duane, an openly gay champion of marriage equality, will vote against the budget. But where are the rest of New York's Democrats, who control the State Assembly and make up 48% of the State Senate? Only seven Democratic assemblymembers had the guts to buck the Democratic governor and vote against the budget bill that will lower tax rates for the rich. A handful of Democratic senators will join them. The rest are captive of Albany's craven "let's make a deal" politics that seems to strip state legislators of the courage to do what is right.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-kirsch/andrew-cuomo-tramples-his_b_842989.html

[Stinky The Clown]

23. You demonstrated how hell bent you are to post without comprehending

The OP mentions my hero M*A*R*I*O Cuomo and you post tripe about his kid.

[ClarkUSA]

25. Those are facts about his kid. Mario Cuomo did a lousy job of imparting Democratic values.

But he sure gave pretty speeches.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. I've seen calmer cornered rats

Not saying you're a rat. I'm comparing you response to my response to your totally off base response to me.

Try decaffeinated. :hi:

[ClarkUSA]

37. I've read better content in comic strips.

Try facts. Single payer didn't have the votes. Even Bernie Sanders knew that.

[ClarkUSA]

21. "Cuomo Vows Offensive Against Labor Unions" (NYT, 10/25/10)

Andrew M. Cuomo will mount a presidential-style permanent political campaign to counter the well-financed labor unions he believes have bullied previous governors and lawmakers into making bad decisions. He will seek to transform the state’s weak business lobby into a more formidable ally, believing that corporate leaders in New York have virtually surrendered the field to big labor.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/nyregion/25cuomo.html

[Stinky The Clown]

24. Wow, quotes and all. Real Internet cites. Too bad you GOT THE WRONG CUOMO

The OP says MARIO. He would be the father of the guy you're yammering on about.

What a joke.

:rofl:








No. I'm not actually rolling on the floor laughing at you. It only mildly amuses me with its patheticism.

[ClarkUSA]

27. What's pathetic is the lousy job Mario did of raising his Koch-approved kid with Democratic values.

Did I mention Sarah Palin and Rudy Giuliani like Mario's DINO son, too?

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Good Lord. Bitter much?

That's among the saddest replies I've ever seen.

Read My Lips:

I DON'T GIVE A FUCK ABOUT ANDREW CUOMO AND NEVER MENTIONED HIM.

Clear?

Good lord .. . .. . .. . :snort:

[ClarkUSA]

34. It's a fact. Mario made pretty speeches, tho.

[Shining Jack]

53. "Mario made pretty speeches, tho."

I love irony.

[girl_interrupted]

59. Cuomo has a 76% approval rating....does Obama?

[Stinky The Clown]

35. By the way. I am done speaking to you in this thread.

Have a really swell time this weekend. :hi:

[tblue]

199. Mario -- Now that's a fighter.

Obama could learn a thing or two from Mario. Eloquence, straight talk, resolve, homesty, "Danny the Cabin Boy"! Man, do I miss Mario!.

[sad sally]

36. The first doubts crept in when Guantanamo promises were changed.

What Obama actually did, the Washington Post reported, was to sign “an executive order ... that will create a formal system of indefinite detention for those held at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, who continue to pose a significant threat to national security. The administration also said it will start new military commission trials for detainees there.”

So our President, who ran for office in 2008 with a strong promise to reverse the atrocious human-rights record of George W. Bush, formally embraced his predecessor’s policy of detaining persons suspected of being, but never proven to be, terrorists. The executive branch of government, not the judicial branch will do "reviews" on 48 of the 172 prisoners - is this a sham, is this justice, is this the way gulags the US criticized were run? Obama’s pledge to close the prison is officially history. His executive order asserts presidential authority to hold people indefinitely without ever bringing them before any kind of judicial authority, not even military commissions, which have been criticized as kangaroo courts even by some of the prosecutors.

The justice system of the United States says when the government cannot bear its burden of proof before a court, it must set a suspect free. But the so-called “war on terror” changed all that for people arbitrarily branded terrorist suspects or enemy combatants. Carrying on the policy established by Bush, the Obama administration takes the position that someone felt - not proven - to be a threat to national security can be denied a trial and held prisoner indefinitely. Nothing is more un-American.

I cannot believe a second term Obama Administration will be any different than the first; neither will any Republican one. Doom is what I see.

[blkmusclmachine]

45. I don't trust Obama, either; too many untruths:

But he has your "Vote," and that's all that matters in DC. And BTW, you just gave up the small percentilla of leverage you had, by casting a "Vote" for "Approve." Welcome to being part of the problem. :think:


The definition of insanity is doing the same wrong things over and over again and expecting good results.

[Cali_Democrat]

47. K&R

[alp227]

48. I agree on all counts. Doubtful that the Republicans will fall into a split

between Ron Paul and the others. So we can't afford to sit out. Seriously. But Obama deserves all the criticism he's gotten. Crazy thing is how 2012 will be voting AGAINST the crazy, not for somebody.

[autorank]

49. k*r No shit!

:evilgrin:

[Shining Jack]

54. K&R

Thanks.

[defendandprotect]

55. Obama actually made back room deals with Big Pharma and private H/C industry ....

it was complete betrayal --

But who could ignore Obama eloping into White House with Koch Bros. DLC Rahm

Emmanuel -- ? And picking a Wall Street team -- the very people who caused the

financial coup!?


Obama is ignoring the will of the people -- in order to support his corporatist/elites --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1864249&mesg_id=1867794

[davidwparker]

56. Per Obama, he requested that the Professional Left

keep pushing both him and Congress. So, nobody *should* be offended by his being criticized constructively.

I agree with your last paragraph. I prefer a Dem primary. He will most likely get my vote if he is the nominee. But, since he will not carry this state again, I'm agreeing with a poster above and will do a write in to either Sanders or Kucinich if we go from swing state back to solidly Red.

on edit: clarifications

[loyalsister]

144. Constructive criticism is good

The problem I think some of us see are the claims that Obama is a closet republican, and out to do harm. I have seen hyperbolic hate in some posts, and that I find disturbing.

[Major Hogwash]

60. I think a lot of it depends on who are Democrats and who are real Democrats.

From what I've been able to ascertain over the last few months, there are only a handful of real Democrats that are upset with Obama.
Most of them realize what the GOP has done for the last 2 and a half years, unprecedented filibustering and blocking the President's attempts to solve this country's problems at every turn.

[markpkessinger]

61. Regardless of which side of this family feud one might be on ...

... this President sure has done a bang-up job of unifying the party, eh?

Excellent OP. Thanks for posting it!

[girl_interrupted]

62. K&R Stinky.. Progressives wanted better health care

thats a crime? They want to end wars and spend the billions we are wasting on them, not to mention lives, and use it to benefit our own. They don't want Social Security or Medicare or Medicaid used as bargaining chips. I don't understand the disdain this administration has for progressives. "The Loony Left", the remarks about drug testing. Honestly they was part of Obama's base....disagree with them if you want to, but no need for insults....especialy when you want people's votes.

Tell you what totally creeps me out is this "you are either with us or against us" mentality. It's like the bush years all over again, in that respect. "Watch what you say" it's so undemocratic.

Voters are unhappy, times are tough, they need a voice and this President & his party need to listen. Otherwise voters are going to go for that shiny new candidate that promises them something they think is better. Voters have legitimate complaints that need to addressed and it's not just coming from the left.


I hope Obama wakes up and realizes it.

[hay rick]

63. K&R.

And no vote for Obama in 2012 under any circumstances. I don't care if he's running against Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann, or Adolf Hitler. If we can't come up with a better choice in the presidential election it's time to admit the electoral process is broken.

[Festivito]

66. So, you would throw a few million Americans out of work into a bad job market.

I as much as anyone despise the 1.5T$/year health care denial industry, but moving directly from our current corporate insurance system to single payer has an ugly ugly consequence.

[uponit7771]

67. *****ANOTHER FALSE BS MEME****** Most of the "disapointment" in Obama has ignored crazy congress...

...and acted as if Obama is a dictator.

Bullshit

[Stinky The Clown]

74. *****YOU DON'T GET IT***** The "key words" were...

... "he didn't even try."

Re Single Payer (as but one example), he never even put the idea on the table. Never. He never did it.

If he tried and failed I would hold him in far higher esteem than I do.

[russspeakeasy]

80. In mixed martial arts, he would be disqualified for

"failure to engage".:puke: :hurts:

[treestar]

90. Exactly!

If it's honest, it's simply unrealistic and uninformed.

Any disappointment should have been in the Blue Dogs' existence, the fact that having the Senate by a majority did not mean we'd be able to get as much as we wanted.

[Stinky The Clown]

96. Do you work at being disingenuous? Seriously. Do you?

The OP made it clear that the failing was the not trying part, not the not succeeding part.

He. Never. Even. Tried.

*That's* the issue.

But then, you knew that. So shame on you.

[treestar]

112. Never even tried?

Have you ever even tried to get elected to an office?

You could get your neighbor to pay you $500. Have you even tried?

Quit being stupidly demanding of others.

[Fuddnik]

130. Have you?

I have. And I've run other campaigns.

And you watch the likes of Harold Ford and Rahm Emmanuel actively undercut your fundraising. Or recruit a Republican to switch parties and run against you in a primary. And fund them.

Or turn around and listen to Debbie Wasserman-Shultz endorse your Republican opponent, because "they're friends".

Have you ever been in the trenches and seen the real world? Obviously not.

[bluestateboomer]

179. BS on your BS

As far as I can see...."he didn't even try" IMHO (and humble people are allowed opinions)

[muffin1]

69. K&R nt

[B Calm]

70. Kicked and Recommended ! We need Bernie Sanders!!

[jefferson_dem]

77. Don't worry.

He'll easily win his election next year... And remain in his position as the junior Senator from Vermont.

[MoonRiver]

71. A lot of people will find themselves "too busy" to vote

come the next presidential election day. Just sayin'.

[SHRED]

72. He did much more than not even **try**

Obama sat on his hands while Max Baucus laughed at single-payer advocates being arrested.
Obama set up this situation of protest by not even allowing single-payer advocates at the table at the start of the health care debate.

This is unforgivable to me.


---

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

75. I'm with you 100%.

'Primary Challenge' is my pony.

[ladyVet]

79. Well, I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Except for the part about voting for Obama. I won't hold my nose anymore and cast my vote for someone just because the other side is worse. I've been doing that for over 30 years.

And I'll tell you something else, which I've spent a lot of time thinking about. I really hate to have come to this conclusion, and it will probably get me flamed big time, but here it is:

I think the only reason Obama is a Democrat is because a black man who wanted to be president couldn't get elected as a Republican.

So there it is. Everything he does is pure repuke. Oh, he throws us a tiny sliver every now and then, but really, honestly, what has he done for anyone who isn't a corporate money bag?

[Fuddnik]

131. My vote is important to me.

And I don't automatically give it to anyone anymore. They have to earn it.

If nobody tries to earn it, I keep it.

[immoderate]

147. Right. Obama's job is to sucker progressives.

As long as there is a Democrat ringer in office, progressives will not take to the streets (where all real change in the US happens.)

--imm

[Autumn]

216. Well said ladyVet, very well said indeed.

:applause: :applause: That's the conclusion I came to some time back. Hence the present votes in the Senate, he was a very carefully crafted blank slate.

[SharksBreath]

81. I swear his biggest mistake was not prosectuing Bush.

The country needed to be reminded of what they did.

Every Damn Day.


Since he looked forward the GOP smelled pussy and they have been treating him that way since day one.

[Fearless]

82. Bingo. +1

[mother earth]

83. K & R, absolutely agree...we got a 3rd term of GW just about.

I used to be filled with hope for change, now it's just one big disappointment after another, with a "dem" in the WH...talk about DINO. Privatization and corporatism are still on fast drive bent on bringing the populace to its knees as slaves...be grateful for any crumbs thrown by the corporate overlords and the politicians grow fatter & more brazen...why not, law is now seemingly optional, any existing regulations are set up for those willing to buy influence.

[Logical]

84. Glad to be your 100th rec!

[JoePhilly]

85. Why do you folks keep bring up the peas?

If you want to claim to be honest, at least get the peas thing right.

He was not telling the American people (or you) to eat your peas. He was saying that CONGRESS needs to get serious and make the tough decisions that are necessary to move the country forward. He was saying that the elected official in Washington need to "eat our peas".

This may seem like a small point. But it gets to the heart of the "honest criticism" discussion.

When folks complain that Obama ran on single payer, when he did not, that's not an honest criticism.

When some claim he promised to get us out of both wars, when he in fact promised to increase troops in Afghanistan, that's not an honest criticism.

And then on things like the PO, or the size of the stimulus, an honest criticism would describe how exactly he gets the votes for those things. And saying "bully pulpit" one day, and then, "that was just another pretty speech" the next, beyond not explaining how he gets the votes, comes across as disingenuous.

So, don't eat the peas, after all, he didn't ask you to.

[Stinky The Clown]

117. Hahahaha . . . . that's what you got out of my post? Peas?

Oh man.

Peas.

Hahahahahaha

[Fuddnik]

132. Just casting more asparagus!

[NorthCarolina]

87. K&R. Agree completely. nt

[treestar]

89. No, it's the disappointed person's fault

You can always choose your own attitude.

It is dumb to put everything on a President in our system. It was not meant to be easy to make a law. The pressure is not there to make major changes. For all the hyperbole, we are not in any major depression.

[Bette Noir]

140. Not in a major depression?

Is that why the value of my home is down 40%, stocks the same, and my husband, never in his career out of work more than a few weeks, currently unemployed 15 months?

Don't believe everything you read.

[Metta]

91. He's turning into Joe Lieberman. What a waste.

He lied to and misled us.

[B Calm]

101. My thoughts too. . .eom

[Metta]

154. Pity. nt

.

[BiggJawn]

93. "Bipartisanbullshitship"

"Bipartisanship"... I'm so fucking sick and tired of hearing that. If you ever wanted to know what an Evan Bayh presidency would have looked like, this is it.

Obama's presidency leads me to believe that Young Barry was the kid who got jacked for his lunch money every day.

I'll vote for him, even though I'm beginning to think it's going to be a futile effort against High Priest Perry of the First Church of Dominion.

[Fuddnik]

135. Well, Bayh and Vilsack were on his final list for VP.

Says a lot.

[BiggJawn]

215. Oh, that's right, they were.

I think Evan probably turned it down because he knew he was heading off to LobbyLand and the Big Bucks...

BTW, I was at a Bluegrass festival today and overheard some people have a good time with "Boy, that Boehner sure put that Obama in his place, didn't he?"

[ProgressIn2008]

98. Of course. No one "owes" him a damn thing; he isn't a king. nt

[Jakes Progress]

100. K&R

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. What set me on the path to mistrust were his Cabinet and WH staff appointments:

all conservative Democrats and Republicans.

That was something that should have been 100% in his control. That was the first warning sign, and nothing since then has made me feel any better.

[yardwork]

108. Yep. He made his priorities and his policies clear right from the get-go.

[QC]

149. His policies and priorities were made abundantly clear **during the campaign**!!

I don't have a lot of sympathy for the claim that Obama was a progressive who suddenly turned right after taking office.

The signs were all there long before the election, when Senator Obama:

• Publicly embraced outspoken homophobes like Donnie McClurkin and Kirbyjon Caldwell
  
• Made the DLC's chief economist his campaign's chef economist
  
• Mildly criticized NAFTA and immediately sent a campaign functionary to Canada to explain that he was only bullshitting for the (unemployed) yokels
  
• Praised Reagan while heaping scorn on liberals
  
• Condemned the "excesses" and "tired ideological battles" of the 60's and 70's, a tried and true right wing talking point if ever there was one
  
• Spoke of the need to give corporations a place at the table
  and so on....
  

For those who paid attention to what Obama actually said and did, rather than get caught up in the rhetorical style that he appropriated from the civil rights and farmworkers movements, he always seemed a decidedly rightist--and timid--politician.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

190. The only reason I voted for him was because he didn't have Sarah Palin as a running mate

But I was never enthusiastic.

I was glad to see Bush gone (or so I thought), and I was pleased that America had elected a person of color, but I never campaigned for him or contributed a dime. (I didn't like Hillary Clinton either, and my response would have been the same.)

[QC]

194. That's basically what happened to a lot of us.

We had to choose between the timid and the terrifying.

I made the same choice you did.

[NewJeffCT]

185. Having radical RWer Rick Warren

do the invocation was something that really bothered me.

I wasn't surprised by many of the cabinet picks, as I expected Obama to be a centrist based on how he campaigned. However, picking Warren was like a kick in the teeth.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

197. That was a major FU... and it's been downhill since.

Obama could have chosen someone like Bishop Gene Robinson, but went with Warren. Wonder how many votes that smarmy homophobe delivered for him? If Obama wins in 2012, perhaps Palin's witch doctor Muthee will be available to deliver the invocation. *Really* make a statement, Obama.

[Bette Noir]

114. He was one man campaigning, and a different one governing.

I want my campaign contributions back.

[WillyT]

120. That's About The Size Of It... K & R !!!

:shrug:

:hi:

:kick: & Rec!!!

[amborin]

122. one glaringly bad policy choice after another places Obama center-right or right on so many issues;

HCR was straight out of the Heritage Foundation, for example...

[mopinko]

124. fwiw not too many people ACTUALLY wanted john kerry

just sayin'. i highly doubt that someone like howard dean would make it through the primary process this time either.

[pasto76]

125. WOW, sounding a lot like this quote:

"The idea that the minority party represents the "will of the people"
(not some of the people, but "the people") is the seedling of a totalitarian mindset.
In this mindset -- democracy doesn't matter, ideas are not to be discussed,
and opposing views are not to respected. What matters is that they alone have truth,
they alone are metaphysically connected to the "mind of the people" can interpret their will,
and because they have truth and speak for the people,
others represent a threat and must be silenced and stopped."

proclaiming yourself to be in the "honest" category, while casting everyone else aside is exactly about what this quote speaks.

You want to be HONEST, take a long hard look at reality. Maybe you weren't being honest with yourself when you supported President Obama, and what you thought he would do as a single person. Think HONESTLY about the opposition ANY non-republican president would get from the current congress.

[RetroLounge]

127. K&R

You've obviously struck a nerve, the entire swarm is here trying to misdirect, lie, and change the topic.

Well, except for Miss Bold Blue Links (tm), but she'll be here soon.

:applause:

RL

[Stinky The Clown]

200. Yeah, some even went back for extra swings

I wonder where the secret dugout is. There is decided evidence of intelligent control.

[mike_c]

129. I'm anti-Obama and if someone wants to pay me for it...

...I'll be happy to take the cash, LOL! The notion that one must be a paid plant in order to have an independent opinion is deeply insulting and at the same time, somewhat ludicrous, IMO. I've been opposed to Obama (AND the Clintons) from the very beginning, gratis!

[immoderate]

139. If he's an undercover Republican, it all makes sense.

Obama is there to provide cover for his fellow Republicans and prevent the populace from taking to the streets, where all political change happens.


--imm

[rhett o rick]

173. I think he is co opted by the corporatists. We need to stop thinking in terms of D vs R. That's a

distraction.

[immoderate]

178. Yes. I pre-empt polotical discussions by posing, "Who runs the country?"

People get bogged down in the democracy vs republic, and similar structural and philosophical debates.

I say, "So who do they represent?" :shrug:

--imm

[rhett o rick]

183. So who do you think really runs the country? nm

[RBInMaine]

142. More purist nonsense. Yawn.

[Roy Rolling]

146. Tail Wagging the Dog

I think this is a case of the tail wagging the dog. Progressives have an honest and visceral belief system of fairness, equality, and effectiveness. Candidates that will carry out policies that advance those beliefs will get our support. We are not hero-worshippers that will support a candidate just because they have the Democratic-brand burned in their skin.

Typically, Democrats supported a progressive versus reactionary agenda. If they stray, they lose support. In an election between a bad choice and a worse choice we will support the bad choice. But a non-progressive and reactionary Democrat will not get the support of progressives , in general, unless the opponent is bat-shit crazy.

And that is the good news for Obama---he will win IN SPITE of his policies, not because of his policies.

[sce56]

148. It is all in the toon!

[FirstLight]

151. For me it's the WARS...and the Environment

"Candidate" Obama told us in no uncertain terms, we'd see our guys home...now 4 years later we are still spending tons of money and watching them die. Even AFTER the death of OBL...that very week he could have ordered everyone home. Mission accomplished, get the fuck out.

And the BP/Deepwater horizon disaster is another. People still sick, the allowing of Corexit, and then basically letting BP police themselves and NO prosecutions... :mad:

If he says the Tar Sands Pipeline is a 'good' idea.... I honestly don't know where to go from there...I think my brain will explode.

EDIT to add: after reading thru the thread, I remember that the FIRST inkling I had was the refusal to PROSECUTE the War criminals!

[SidDithers]

153. But it's the DISHONEST left that 's the most entertaining...nt

Sid

[rhett o rick]

167. And you support letting war criminals live among us. nm

[SidDithers]

168. Did you break your ankles jumping to that conclusion?...nt

Sid

[rhett o rick]

171. Easy to conclude.Supporters of politicians that support war criminals, in turn support war criminals

[John Agar]

192. Indeed. By definition.

Obama's protection of torturers and other war criminals is probably the worst of his many sins since coming to office.

Coddling polluters and willingness to sacrifice the hard-won SS and Medicare benefits of the people are close behind.

[rhett o rick]

218. It's like "Damn Yankees", Obama wanted the Presidency and was willing to trade his soul

to the devil.

[John Agar]

219. We are assuming he had a soul (or conscience) to start with.

Which I'm not sure of anymore.

It's very upsetting.

[rhett o rick]

220. Agree. Although it really doesnt matter at this point. nm

[John Agar]

221. True enough. We are obviously on our own now.

The White House has abandoned us.

[notGaryOldman]

155. I agree

Recommended.

[SidDithers]

174. One of the best usernames ever...

welcome to DU. :hi:

Sid

[SavWriter]

160. Compromise is the tool of the fascists

The obvious question is this. Does it matter if we live under a Right Wing Fascist Dictator, or a slightly less rabidly, less extreme right wing Dictator?

It doesn't matter. Both are unacceptable. Compromise theoretically means that we start from the extreme left, and the extreme right, and we end up with a moderate position. The problem is that President Obama and the Democrats in Congress don't begin from the extreme left, or even the casual left. They begin from the Moderate, and move right.

Why didn't we end the abuses of the Government regarding spying on our own citizens by allowing the PATRIOT Act to die? Because it was our secret police now. Sure, we're spying on the Rabid Right who are even now probably masturbating while dreaming of armed attacks on the Government. However, let's not forget that those same Secret Police were spying on us before President Obama was elected. They will spy on us again.

Forgive me, but secret police and national security letters are NOT what I voted for when I helped elect President Obama. If I wanted that kind of fascist crap I would have campaigned for McSame and the dunce. Oh, we didn't have money to close Guantanamo Bay. We are holding people illegally. It is an undeniable fact that we are violating the Geneva Conventions, we are international criminals. We can't try them in civilian courts because all the evidence would be thrown out. We tortured those people, and we give the Terrorists a heck of a recruiting tool. We should have released those people back to their home nations. We were and are morally bound to obey the law. We aren't, we're ignoring the law, and we are breaking the law.

Why hasn't President Obama simply told the people that the Bush Cabal were international criminals in holding those people hostage in Cuba?

Why hasn't my President simply told the American People that the Torture dreamed up by Cheney that we used to get the confessions means we lost any chance we ever had of trying the hostages in Guantanamo?

Because we're compromising our principals, by beginning at the center, and moving right. The next election is shaping up to be a choice for the voters. Not between Democrat and Republican, but between Republican, and sort of like the Republicans. In that case, the Republicans will win. It won't be my fault, or yours. We can have the best jingle, the best advertising team in the world. But the simple fact is the dogs don't like the food.

[rhett o rick]

172. Should be a separate OP. Right on. nm

[chill_wind]

170. He DID indeed campaign on the public option and then DENIED it

to WAPO when it was all done.

“I didn’t campaign on the public option,” President Obama told the Washington Post. But he touted the public option on his campaign website and spoke frequently in support of it during the first year of his presidency, citing its essential value in holding the private insurance industry accountable and providing competition:

– In the 2008 Obama-Biden health care plan on the campaign’s website, candidate Obama promised that “any American will have the opportunity to enroll in new public plan.” (2008)

– During a speech at the American Medical Association, President Obama told thousands of doctors that one of the plans included in the new health insurance exchanges “needs to be a public option that will give people a broader range of choices and inject competition into the health care market.” (6/15/09)

– While speaking to the nation during his weekly address, the President said that “any plan” he signs “must include…a public option.” (7/17/09)

– During a conference call with progressive bloggers, the President said he continues “to believe that a robust public option would be the best way to go.” (7/20/09)

– Obama told NBC’s David Gregory that a public option “should be a part of this ,” while rebuking claims that the plan was “dead.” (9/20/09)

Despite all this overt advocacy for the public option, it appears that Obama was reticent to apply the political pressure necessary to get the plan in the final hours of congressional negotiation.

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2009/12/22/74682/obama-repeatedly-touted-public/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/22/AR2009122202101.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2009122202132

Just had to reiterate that. There's been incessant revisionism about that ever since, and a complete willingness to ignore his facile ease with untruth about that part of matters, especially, to WAPO regarding it in the aftermath:

"Nowhere has there been a bigger gap between the perceptions of compromise and the realities of compromise than in the health-care bill," Obama said. "Every single criteria for reform I put forward is in this bill."

Yes, once again, he was dismissing the left with our craaaazy "perceptions", saying in effect his base had been hallucinating about his campaign positions. (bold mine).

But really, if I had to go back to my very first inklings of uneasiness about Obama, it would have to be all the way back to turncoat actions on FISA fix/mess in the earliest days of his campaign-

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2008/07/obamas-fisa-shi/

And not only did he do a 180 on his support for a filibuster, he joined ALL the Republicans in voting for cloture.

The Rev Wright thing, the cabinet picks, the Rick Warren biz, the clear preservation of the Bush DOJ National Security State policies from the beginning of his admin on, when every new FOIA or court action from the Bush era came to light, seeing Yoo walk and the CIA torture tape destroyers walk under Holder, the Bankster coddling, the cat food commission and the concerted ignoring of mainstream progressive economists, the ongoing PermaWars-- all of it depressingly downhill from there, for me. Still, I supported him as vigorously as I could up to his inaugural because I just didn't believe Hillary could win the G.E. and I couldn't begin to contemplate McBush/Palin.

I sucked it in. I phone-banked, canvassed, donated. Distributed stacks and stacks of bumper stickers, yard-signs, registered new voters. I AM one more of angry millions. And as inconsequential as anything I did as it stacked up in reality in the grand scheme of things- of the real deciders of elections (big money)-- I'm just one more that can't do it again for him this time. I just can't.

[sabrina 1]

180. Excellent post, chill_wind ~ there is a lot of revisionist history

going on, but facts are facts. I remember the huge disappointment over the FISA vote also. I began to question my support for him at that time. But we 'moved on' since the stakes were so high.

[NewJeffCT]

186. yes, dropping the public option pissed me off

and, not really even fighting for it.

[Armstead]

175. Amen -- You said it well

[gulliver]

188. Where we disagree...

I would love to see Obama kick ass and take names. I would love to seem him rally the nation to take bold leaps on liberal issues. Just one after the other. I agree with that part of your sentiment, and I agree with your decision to vote for Obama against a Republican.

Where we disagree is on expectations. I never thought Obama would be what amounts to a messiah. The process of governing the U.S. is a thoroughly messed up game, much of which is rigged. It's a big churning ball of democracy, psychology, rhetoric, need, etc. Given the people of the country, the state of the world, the history...I find myself amazed that this Rube Goldberg jalopy country does anything at all.

My main source of discouragement is the almost pathetic way our fabulous communication infrastructure is being used. There is no such thing as a speech that can enthrall and motivate any more. That god is dead. His fingernails have just not gotten the news.

Most of the time it looks to me like Obama makes good calls even though they are not the ones I would like to see. If the people of the country change, he can make better calls. For that to happen, we need a better communication process.

[NNN0LHI]

195. I am honest and left. How am I going to blame something on Obama that began in the 1980's?

Obama was only a kid when we began going down the road to where we have ended up today.

I think you are old enough to know this too Stinky. About the same age as me ain't you?

So as far as this "honest", stuff you profess goes I don't know?

Don

[DesertFlower]

196. he could have said he wouldn't sign a bill

that didn't have a public option. that would have been a start to single payer.

i'm disappointed but i'll still vote for him.

[chill_wind]

203. He did say it.

"Any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest - and choose what's best for your family."


http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-demands-the-bill-i-sign-must-include-public-option.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83FvLjsUOJg&feature=player_embedded#!

Just another promise that turned out empty.

[great white snark]

206. Sorry you'll have to suffer through 5 more years of President Obama.

I fear while the country improves your unreasonable, petty bitterness will hold you back.

[B Calm]

209. If he don't win back his base you can stick a fork into him, he's done. .

[Exilednight]

213. How is the country improving? We are stagnated at nearly 10% official unemployment and

an ever increasing gap between rich and poor while the middle-class is being squeezed out of existence.

[B Calm]

217. The top 5% have gained more wealth in the last 30 years than all the

wealth in the history of man prior to 1980. So Obama put social security and medicare on the chopping block. .