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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 08:06 PM
Original message
Tar Sands to consume all natural gas in Canada and Alaska
pothetically speaking, of course. In 2007, the oil sands used around 1 billion cubic feet of natural gas per day. In 2007, about one million barrels per day of tar sands is produced in Alberta. If oil production reaches 6 million barrels a day, thats 6 billion cubic feet of nat gas a day.

2.16 trillion cubic feet of nat gas a year. Once I did these calculations (assuming I didnt blow the math involved), I wondered just how much nat gas is in the Great White North.

According to the 2010 US Geologic Survey there are 27 billion barrels of oil and 114.36 trillion cubic feet of natural gas in the NPRA. http://naturalresources.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=245403


Canada has 57.9 tcf according to a paper written by Micheal J. Economides and David Wood in 2008, but claim Canadas natural gas production has already peaked @ 18 bcf. I seem to remember reading about larger proven reserve estimates, in the area of 70 tcf. These reserve estimates do not include Shale and Coalbed Methane reserves which range in the 400 tcf to 700 tcf area. But fracking the western half of Canada doesnt seem viable especially at depths of 2 miles or more where recovery is far more difficult, and the required investment much higher.
http://www.xgas.us/images/paper_one.pdf

I think we're looking at about 185 trillion cubic feet of natural gas between Alaska and Canada. If the Tar Sands uses nat gas at an annual rate of 2.16 tcf, then Alaska and Canada have enough to last about 85 years, at which point the Tar Sands should be depleted.

Now realistically these numbers I am throwing out are back of the envelope, and recovery techniques will undoubtedly improve over time. But even the Wiki article on the Tar Sands suggests that Canada would limit or halt nat gas exports to the US in favor of tar sands production.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands#Natural_gas_use_and_greenhouse_gases
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7588
http://www.neb.gc.ca/clf-nsi/rnrgynfmtn/nrgyrprt/lsnd/pprtntsndchllngs20152004/qapprtntsndchllngs20152004-eng.html


What would the big man Al Gore say?

Over 200,000 people have signed the petition telling President Obama to stop the Keystone pipeline. If you haven't done so yet, please sign the petition to stop the Keystone pipeline.
http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/keystone_obama/index2.html?rc=fb_share1




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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. Appreciate the rec's, but no comments, no discussion? Aww gee
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. Would it not be cheaper and easier to
make oil from the natural gas?

What is needed to extract the road tar, and that is what it is, and make gasoline from it is really stupidly expensive.
And don't forget the planed nuclear power plants needed to heat the road tar to extract it. Either that or equal amounts of energy digging gigantic holes in the ground for strip mining it.

This has the all the energy gain of ethanol. Most people by now know ethanol is almost a wash energy wise. Actually ethanol is an energy loser because of lower gas mileage in vehicles that use it.

Another boondoggle to make rich people lots of money.
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I doubt it
Make a car that uses nat gas.
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RC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. That wasn't my point.
This, among others -

Pipeline will carry world’s dirtiest oil through our state
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/332695/group/Opinion/

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Its not cheaper to make oil from nat gas, is that what you meant?
Bitumen is API 10 or less, mid east oil for export: API 31 to 37. Yes, tar sands is THE nastiest crap possible, absolutely.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-02-11 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sarah Palin gave $500 million of Alaska's money
to Trans-Canada to build their pipeline from our North Slope to the Alberta Tar Sands. A lot of people here are not happy about it, especially since we have some of the highest energy costs in the country and could use that natural gas in-state to provide heat and energy for our people. There is a counter effort here to build an in-state line with the gas going to residents and whatever is left over being liquefied and sold to whoever wants to buy it. We are definitely not happy about the tar sands proposal.

The animation, the second video at this link which was posted by a Facebook friend, was a real eye-opener to me about the dangers of tar sand extraction. I don't want Alaska to have any part in it.

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2011/07/bitumen-extraction-explained-in-animation-and-jon-stewart-targets-oil-sands/
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snagglepuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 01:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. k and r nt
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thank you very much.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Don't worry, once we frack all of New York State, there'll be plenty
of natural gas! Clean water, not so much, but plenty of natural gas!
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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Marcellus=84tcf IIRC. And we need every gallon of water to get that gas...........
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AdHocSolver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-03-11 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. I can see from the comments in this thread that none of you get the logic of the power elite.
The comments here assume that, if The Powers That Be (TPTB) would only understand that their plans will cause horrendous pollution, use up scarce natural resources faster, be less efficient, make life on earth more difficult and more expensive, and increase the misery of the masses, then they would change course and act in a more rational manner to the benefit of all.

Your assumption is all wrong. TPTB are already acting in a rational way if you understand that their sole purpose is to increase their power and profits.

Let me use a simple example. Adding ethanol made from corn was originally proposed in the early 1990's to reduce smog. It really didn't help reduce smog as gas mileage suffered, so as cars burned more gas with the added ethanol, smog production stayed the same if it didn't get worse.

After awhile, people lacked enthusiasm for the use of ethanol in gasoline, and some of us pointed out that adding ethanol used more oil, since gas mileage got worse, and the growing of corn used a lot of oil in itself, further worsening the situation.

However, profits were increasing since oil consumption was increasing and demand for oil was increasing, and these factors provided a convenient excuse for increased oil prices.

At the same time, the automobile companies (part of the same Wall Street controlled energy-military-industrial complex) were promoting the sale of bigger, more gas guzzling trucks, cars, and SUVs. The clueless public went for it. The experimental all-electric vehicles built by GM in the 1990s (the EV1 and EV2) and test driven by the public in California, proved so popular, that a panicked GM withdrew from the program and destroyed almost all of them.

However, Japan doesn't have a lot of oil on hand, so their auto industries have for a long time worked to improve gas mileage in their vehicles. The development of the fuel efficient hybrid electric Prius demonstrated to the world what could be accomplished with the latest technology.

Wall Street is in a panic. With the new electric vehicles, effective gas mileage could potentially increase to the situation that there will be an oil "glut" in which case oil consumption and oil prices will drop so precipitously, that the profits and power of the oil companies will plunge with it.

Wall Street needs a new plan. Here it is. The collapsing U.S. economy means that profits from America are decreasing and unlikely to recover. However, there are still a lot of resources in North America in the form of coal, tar sands oil, and natural gas. However, the North American markets are dwindling, just as the markets in a China flush with money and a burgeoning new middle class are growing exponentially.

However, the cheapest way to extract these resources are extremely polluting. Americans will never accept it, unless Wall Street can convince the public that allowing dirty extraction will increase supply (for them) and lower gas prices at the pump. The American public is in a panic, and gullible anyway, so they will go for it.

Once the oil from tar sands is extracted, it can be transported to China where a growing demand will raise the prices to new higher levels. The oil companies can "honestly" explain this action as necessary as a collapsed economy in the U.S. provides no market, while demand from the "global economy" requires "free trade".

So you see, the power elite has thought out the future very rationally. Therefore, as a patriotic American, you should turn around, bend over, relax, and enjoy it.
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