"Throughout the speech, the union crowd kept chanting 'four more years.'"

[Robb]

"You say you're the party of tax cuts," Obama said of the GOP argument. "Well, then prove you'll fight just as hard for tax cuts for middle class families as you do oil companies and the most affluent Americans. Show us what you've got."

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/09/05/business/AP-US-Obama.html

:thumbsup:

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. Feh. Union members. What do they know?

They're not the Democratic base. We are.

[lonestarnot]

55. Plenty. For starters we know what slave labor looks like and it covers about 9 out of 10 of every

pug talking points. Deregulation, more corp tax cuts, more free trade. Fuck those son-of-a-bitches!

[Scurrilous]

2. K & R

:thumbsup:

[LoZoccolo]

That means that people who stand with labor also want four more years.

:thumbsup:

[mmonk]

3. Tax cuts = budget cuts=high unempoyment=low wages.

[theaocp]

4. This is clownish.

Middle class tax cuts don't provide economic stimulus, NOR DO rich tax cuts. Not at the rate of other, *ahem*, more, stimulative measures. STOP TALKING ABOUT FUCKING TAX CUTS, ALREADY! THEY DON'T WORK AND CONTINUE TO CONNECT REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS TO ECONOMIC EXPANSION! Jesus fucking Christ on a stick!

[msongs]

6. the republican agenda and party line marches on unchallenged again. oh well nt

[shraby]

7. Middle class tax cuts DO provide stimulus...the middle class

tends to spend what they get for necessities. It's the tax cut for the rich/super rich that gets socked away into bank accounts..they don't need to spend it. They already have the spending money they need.

[theaocp]

8. The connection is in the words, "tax cuts"

Middle class tax cuts are a canard: they don't offer much beyond feelgood wording. Food stamps are a much better way to stimulate the economy, but they're flummoxed with an unfortunate stigma: welfare. Fuck doing what sounds good and do what's fucking right: stop extending tax cuts. Save me Jeebus!

Just so y'all know, I realize I used an inordinately massive number of colons in my post. Must be the meth. :)

[aquart]

9. Precisely.

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Yeah, but but but but . . . . it was a great speech. And there was chanting.

:sarcasm:

[theaocp]

15. Team D! Team D! Team D!

Barack! Obama! He's our man!
We were told to chant: Yes, we can!

[Arkana]

21. What's it like to be the equivalent of a political hipster that everyone hates?

[SidDithers]

25. They hated Obama before it was cool to hate Obama...

:rofl:

Sid

[theaocp]

30. So, you're everyone now?

I love you, too. Rainbows and lollipops, my lovelies.

[Ikonoklast]

40. Nice. Belittling union members.

Labor gets shit on once again by the DU Superior To You Brigade.

[theaocp]

42. My union would disagree with you.

Fail.

[Ikonoklast]

56. My union supports this president.

What else you got except the 'fail' meme?

Not much.

[theaocp]

59. What piece of the pie is your union getting?

Mine ain't getting walked with, but our leadership is happy selling us out with a quickness. Oh, and what else do I have? Well, I'm rubber and you're glue ... oh, fuck it ... my ferrets will eat your cats. So there! :P

[scheming daemons]

52. You're better than this, Stinky. Bashing union members = not cool.

[NNN0LHI]

35. If we don't get the money before the GOP doles it out to their minions who will get it?

Speaking of clowns.

Don

[progressoid]

41. here ya go...

Jesus fucking Christ on a stick!

[theaocp]

43. He looks happier than the first go-round. n/t

[Motown_Johnny]

47. The discussion should be progressive tax policies vs. regressive ones

The phrasing is difficult when you just try to throw around tax cuts for groups of people but the underlying principle is sound.


We need to move away from the regressive policies begun under Reagan and move back to pre-Reagan progressive policies. The details can be argued forever but the big picture is pretty clear.

[Rex]

5. They are fired up!

The GOP has NOTHING, just their one trick pony (sadly in effect since the 1980s) and it seems the pony is coughing up blood and not looking so good. THEY. HAVE. NOTHING.

[Broderick]

11. And some think

Obama is going to lose. Fantasy land. It's a rout with coattails to boot. He is just starting to campaign.

[muffin1]

12. Lots of people won't fall for the purty words again.

[Broderick]

13. They did with Reagan didn't they?

People forget what charisma and great speeches can do. Once he locks in round two, the agenda will change in favor of what the country's needs are. Hard to do when re-election is on the horizon.

[Rex]

16. Plus I see people don't buy bullshit like they did 10 years ago.

Maybe hunger and desperation causes people to pay more attention. People that might be angry at Obama, fear Rick Perry. They know he is crazy. They know he is dangerous. Whatever it is, it won't be a vote for the GOP's candidate.

[Broderick]

18. Did you see this yet???? OMFG

You are so right!

39%
VOTE FOR
The GOP Candidate

45%
VOTE FOR
Barack Obama


Latest Gallop! It's turning!

[RC]

17. What the country needs are? Brahahahahahahah!

Don't you mean what our owners want?

[Broderick]

19. I am a Normandy kind of guy

Storm the gated communities and take back what is ours!

We bail out these fuckers that quadrupled if not doubled down on the quadruple of fees associated with just doing business.

Want to know about inflation??? Ask the small little guy that operates the corner that so many like minded people don't visit because they are too busy getting busy with fancy colors and non-union jobs and destruction of the small business that made this country great. Nope, can't compete with the wall street publicly funded machines putting mom and pop out of business. too many care about colors and convenience and keeping up with the Jones' with inferior products produced with cheap labor.

My wife bought the last shoe type from the last line of New Balance as the LAST SHOE MADE IN AMERICA

We are fucked.

[hfojvt]

27. yeah, we sure saw that in Clinton's second term

what did we get that was progressive then? All I remember are big tax cuts for the rich, and the repeal of Glass-Steagal. Not exactly progressive glory years from the last DLC President's second term.

[hfojvt]

14. so they cheered for lies?

The FICA tax cut is not for middle class families. 46% goes to the top 20%, 72.9% goes to the top 40%.

The bottom 60% only gets 27.1%.

Sorry, I don't want four more years of shitty proposals like this, nor lies to sell them to uninformed crowds.

[dionysus]

53. you better go down there and straighten them out.

[Number23]

60. You didn't know? ONLY DUers KNOW THE TROOTH!!

Everyone else is asleep or stupid and must be lead gently -- oh so gently -- to the light. Including the people they weep and purport to care so much about.

Such a kind and benevolent group, you know...

[lillypaddle]

20. Union Members?

Can't be - all I've read on DU is how much the unions can't stand President Obama. :)

[demgrrrll]

22. Yeah I know interesting...........the usual suspects are out in force

in this thread.

[SidDithers]

26. +1...nt

Sid

[sabrina 1]

23. Why is this a good thing? Challenging Repubs to cut

MORE taxes, but not challenging them to RAISE taxes on the wealthy?

Sorry, it's more of the same deceptive language where people think they heard something good, only to be told later, after the election 'if you had been paying attention you would not be disappointed right now. He never said that etc. etc.'

Well, I'm taking that advice this time, and paying very close attention to what he is saying, and this is NOT what I wanted to hear.

Thanks to all those who told me I wasn't paying attention last time btw. I hope everyone takes that advice.

[JoePhilly]

24. Maintaining the tax cuts for the middle class is a good thing.

The middle class needs the cash, and they spend it, which is stimulative.

That's the point.

[hfojvt]

28. yeah, too bad they aren't for the middle class

unless the top 20% is now considered "the middle."

[MessiahRp]

57. Not to mention the middle class is evaporating at a pace where these tax cuts will be for no one

People don't need eventual, end of the year cuts on federal taxes they are too poor to pay into, they need substantive help NOW like cash assistance (Unemployment Benefit Extensions as well as TANF), major increases in Section 8 assistance and Energy Assistance for this upcoming Winter. They need jobs. Real jobs not just construction ones but jobs for everyone else as well. They need the Government to be creative about stopping the mass offshoring going on whether it be by killing free trade agreements of taxes/tariffs with an additional setup to prevent price gouging customers a certain percentage over cost (so they can't take their penalties and push them onto consumers).

These companies take for granted that billions of American consumers are just theirs to market to all the while feeling zero responsibility to employ any of them or work for a better society together. Capitalism eliminates societal responsibilities in the name of unbridled greed.

[tgal]

58. +1

thank you.

[sabrina 1]

29. That is a separate issue from the Tax Cuts given by Bush to the

wealthy which cost this country 2 trillion dollars. Why the need to conflate the two? This doesn't work. It ties two separate issues together, and sets up the 'compromise' for Republicans. It's a strategy that has failed and I would have thought it would not be used again knowing that.

Pick a single issue and go after it. Is that so hard to do? So many of the Middle Class are out of work right now, they would be far happier to hear about jobs. When they get back to work, that will bring in revenue. The more revenue, the more success lowering the debt. Putting pressure on the wealthy to provide jobs or forget any tax cuts, should be one of the steps taken to accomplish that goal. Giving them freebies doesn't encourage them to create jobs here in the US. Rousing rhetoric is fun and taking shots at the other 'team' will always get applause, but that's not what is needed right now.

[JoePhilly]

51. They exist in the same legislation. No one is conflating them.

The Bush tax cuts included BOTH tax cuts for the rich, and for the middle class.

The only way to separate them, is for congress to pass legislation that extends one, but not the other.

I like your last sentence. One day the argument is for Obama to fight back (take shots?), and that he needs to use the bully pulpit more.

But as you prove, when he does, we apparently want something else.

[ecstatic]

34. As usual, the Obama haters missed the point entirely

He wasn't challenging repubs to cut more taxes; he was pointing out their hypocrisy.

Don't worry: There is ZERO threat of repubs targeting the middle class for any kind of break. It's just not their MO; and Obama and every other person who pays attention to the big picture, rather than micro-analyzing every little word for petty outrage knows it too.

[theaocp]

44. ...and you missed Sabrina's point entirely.

Micro-analyzing every little word is apparently what the apologists expect, so cut the sanctimonious crap already. If Obama's going to keep his cards close to his vest, I'm watching for a fucking tell. You don't get to have it both ways.

[Supply Side Jesus]

31. same lip service the dems have been giving Labor for 20 years

ain't nothing new.

[amborin]

32. +1 lip service, nothing more.....may not translate into votes, just as Obama's rhetoric didn't

translate into him doing anything to pass EFCA

[xchrom]

33. I'm middle class - I'd rather have a significant pay rise than a tax cut. Nt

[NNN0LHI]

36. Isn't a pay raise something you need to negotiate with your employer?

[Fumesucker]

38. And tax cuts have to be "negotiated" with Republicans..

Personally I'd rather negotiate with a rabid Smilodon but I guess some people gotta do what they gotta do.

[Lyric]

37. Forgive me if I don't buy it.

I'm hearing and seeing nothing but despair and cynicism toward BOTH parties from the union folks in my family and social circle.

Maybe the crowd did chant, but I can't help but wonder if the chanting was "spontaneous" in the same way that this was:

[NNN0LHI]

39. You are comparing union workers with GOP congressional staffers?

That is interesting.

Solidarity, eh?

Don

[one_voice]

45. K&R

[Motown_Johnny]

46. We only got it going strong twice. It wasn't a constant chant,

and not all of us were union members, they just had a special area in front of the stage that you needed special tickets for that were for union people.

[Robb]

48. If you get a moment

...I'd love to hear more from your day on the ground there. :hi:

[Motown_Johnny]

50. go to the michigan forum or to the thread on Obama's speech being a B+

One thing I should have mentioned is all the Recall Snyder volunteers out there working the crowd. It looked to me as if they would have gotten thousands more signatures yesterday just from the crowd going to see POTUS.

[Scurrilous]

49. Kick

:kick:

[florida08]

54. this again?

"I'm going to propose ways to put America back to work that both parties can agree to, because I still believe both parties can work together to solve our problems,"

Maybe they can but they won't. Tax cuts are not going to provide jobs. The problem is now the GOP. Obstructionism is their game to the detriment of the working class. They don't care if they get our vote..they have nothing to lose because they're not in the WH. Most of us believe in the power of the presidency but as we see it can be marginalized..even halted by a radical party with only one house of Congress. He's got to call them out. This is not politics as usual. We are and have been under attack by them. Bipartisanship is not working. Too many moderates have been purged from the nazi party.

By saying he believes both parties can work is just disingenuous and suggests he's not realizing our dire situation. It gives them cover to continue their onslaught. He's not separating republican voters from their leaders. He needs to do that. That's what those of us on the 'left fringe' are seeing. We sure have been castigated and divided from the rest of the our party by this administration. I don't feel estrangement from other members, I feel it from the WH. Well the far left is communism. To equate equality and financial moral responsibility with that is reprehensible. That's why we feel disappointment and frustration. Oil and water will never mix..stop suggesting it can. He needs to be warning the nation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZGkNAUSvY&feature=related

[sfpcjock]

61. Absolutely!

That's just what Martin Bashir's guest said today: When he comes to your town, the merchandise sells out in 5 minutes, the place is packed with hopeful people. What you see here is the nature of pretty boring polls. Don't be discouraged.

Steve Kerrigan, CEO DNC Committee essentially just said the above on Martin Bashir. Watch it later on their site:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/44413801#44413696 (video)