When is it going to be okay to use the “N” word?

[Cyrano]

No, not that “N” word. I’m talking about the word that immediately labels anyone who uses it a person to be denounced as an extremist nut, and then ignored. I’m talking about the word Nazi.

Imagine a world in which Rick Perry, Michele Bachmann, the empty suit named Mitt Romney, or any of the other crazy people, (and I really mean CRAZY PEOPLE), is running things.

How long before our Commander-in-Chief becomes our Dictator-in-Chief? If you can’t see this simple short step from Democracy to full-blown fascism, you’re as brain dead as the MSM that totally ignored (and even abetted) our progression from freedom to servitude.

Most of the instruments for full presidential control are already in place, from the Patriot Act to the presidential power (thanks to Bush/Cheney) to do whatever he/she wants to do. (See Iraq invasion, torture, warrentless wiretapping, rendition, ignoring habeas corpus, shredding the Constitution, and … we’ll you get the idea.)

The Nazis were a literal incarnation of pure evil. Yet, today, we have one of our two parties wanting to destroy every civilized advancement this country has ever made. And it’s a party that really doesn’t give a crap about who suffers, or who lives or dies. You can apply your own definition of evil to this mindset.

Perhaps you can find a more fitting title for the scum that has and is taking us into a living hell. But as for me, I think the term Nazi is fitting and justified. And if you disagree, I guess we’ll have to see what the next dozen or so years bring us to find out whether or not I’m right. But by then, or course, it won’t really matter if I am.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

1. Does that apply to anyone who continues those policies?

And adds into the sauce more wars without cause, extra-judicial killings, indefinite detention, pressuring occupied nations to keep troops past the date agreed upon for withdrawal?

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

2. Not until they start rounding us up and putting us in camps,

, separating us into those who can work and can't work, and quickly executing the ones that can't. Not until they send troops into the countryside or the cities and start gunning down people Einsatzgruppen style. I really hate it when either side uses the word Nazi or Nazi derivatives to refer to the political opposition. If it's wrong for the Tea Party to hold up photos of Obama dressed up to look like Hitler, then you bet your ass it's wrong for us to refer to them as Nazis. They're bigots, they're stupid, and they're going to ruin this country if they succeed, but that doesn't make them Nazis. When anyone refers to their political opponents as Nazis, unless they actually ARE Nazis, that makes them look like an idiot.

Besides, it's offensive to me as a Jewish voter to see the Tea Party caricatures of Obama as a Nazi, and I know I'm not alone in that regard. If Jewish voters start seeing portrayals of Tea Partiers as Nazis, what do you think is going to happen? Obama won 77% of the Jewish vote last time. He needs a similar percentage again for re-election. Part of the reason why Democrats win such a huge percentage of the vote each time as that the Republicans are largely seen as racist idiots by the Jewish commmunity. Don't screw that up.

[Cyrano]

3. Sorry, but we're going to have to agree to disagree

[loyalsister]

10. Agreed

Using that word loosely diminishes the truth of the crimes they perpetrated.

[Cyrano]

14. Far too many didn't speak up before those crimes were perpetrated

I, for one, don't want to wait. I hope I'm proved wrong. But I'm sure as hell going to speak up while it's still legal to speak up.

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. So you believe there were no Nazis in 1929?

There were no camps then. There were no Einsatzgruppen. They were not separating people into workers and useless eaters.

The greatest error in not recognizing the dangers is in comparing the end-result Nazis to where we are today. Nazi is not simply a uniform or a swastika. In 1929 only the tiniest fraction of the German people envisioned what was to come. Hitler was a laughingstock, a clown, who nobody took seriously.

As a Jew, "Never again" does not mean don't put me in a death camp - it means, don't start our nation down that road in the first place - when you get to a certain point (which we may have already passed) it is damned difficult to stop it. If you REALLY think it can never happen that WE will be rounded up in this country, you are deluding yourself.

It should be obvious that when "they start rounding us up and putting us in camps, separating us into those who can work and can't work, and quickly executing the ones that can't. Not until they send troops into the countryside or the cities and start gunning down people Einsatzgruppen style" it is already far too late to do anything but pick up a gun or die.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

36. I don't think that it's impossible that some people could be rounded up,

considering that it has already happened in our history. Look at FDR's ordered internment of Japanese-Americans for proof that it can happen. I would like to see some evidence that we are headed toward a Nazi state. Please present it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. We are headed towards a very American form of fascism

Read democracy Inc to learn 'bout it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

43. Been on a plane lately?

Are you such a youngster that you don't remember what civil liberties means? Remember when every police department did NOT have a militarized SWAT force? Remember where there was no Homeland Security (could you come up with a more fascist-sounding title?) was not authorized to arrest and hold indefinitely anybody they declared an 'enemy combatant' no matter where they were found in the world, INCLUDING on US soil? When the President would articulate a policy that declared "The United States does not use assassination as a tool of diplomacy" instead of authorizing the assassinations of America's enemies no matter where in the world they may be found?

It is easy to prove that this is not 1943 - but can you prove it is NOT 1932?

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

54. The CIA has been executing people overseas for years

We've been holding people secretly without trial for years. It doesn't make it right, but it's been happening for years. You don't need to talk to me about militarized SWAT forces - look at my damned screen name. Police regularly shit on the Fourth Amendment with impunity. Still, this has been happening for years. I don't think it's any worse now than it was 15 years ago.

[RaleighNCDUer]

65. As I suggested, youngster. It IS far worse than 15 years ago,

and most of it was non-existent 30 years ago. Yes, there were CIA black ops assassinations - but that was part of the CIA cold war security state culture, and was NOT government policy - people linked to such operations who were exposed were condemned, and often arrested. "Rendition" was coined specifically to describe an activity that we did NOT know until the WOT.

What we have here is a boiling frog - if all the 'security state' apparatus that is functioning today was suddenly dropped on us 30 years ago the country would shut down for all the protests and strikes - we'd see unrest equivalent to the height of the Vietnam protests. Can you even imagine what Abbie Hoffman would say about 'free speech zones'? The very notion of police arresting bystanders for taking video of them at work was unthinkable even just 20 years ago - was the guy who taped the Rodney King beating arrested? It was never even questioned - the only question about it was did the video tell the entire story.

Son, we ARE living in a police state. There still might be time to back off from it. I have my doubts.

[Occulus]

51. The fact the Bachmann and Perry are closely allied with Dominionism

isn't enough for you?

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

55. Bachmann has no shot at the nomination

and I don't think Perry can beat Obama.

[Cyrano]

42. Thanks for this post, RaleighNCDuer. It makes the

point I was trying to make in the OP. We are on the road that leads to where the Nazis ultimately went. And if we don't try to stop it now, we may never be able to. And you are also right that it may be too late. Let's hope not.

[Claudia Jones]

53. important point there

"'Never again' does not mean don't put me in a death camp - it means, don't start our nation down that road in the first place."

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Gotcha...except the party was around in the early 1920s

Nor did they do that first...

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

56. What are the similarities in the ideologies?

I understand that the Nazi Party was composed of bigots, and that the Tea party has their fair share as well. Still, you have to give me more than that. Corporate hegemony? It's been happening for years. Remember financial deregulation in the late 1990s?

[nadinbrzezinski]

57. The ideology goes beyond racial

Read on what fascism is...start there.

And our Dominionists have more than a few parallels.

Never again means being able to see warning signs as well. You really need to start with the basics though.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

59. No, you read up on it

Fascist Italy rejected the racial hatred endemic to the Nazi regime. If you want to call the Tea Partiers fascist, fine. Calling them Nazis is ignorant and marginalizes your arguments.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. I'll play that MÁ in history and family history

Fascism is not one single packet. Nazism is a FORM of fascism, basic as can be...and dominionism is another.

Have a good day..

Remember, Never Again means being able to spot warning signs...obviously you can't see them. Hence having this conversation IS USELESS...

That said, you remind me of a few family members who refused to get out, my dad used to tell their story.

[slackmaster]

4. In a humorous context where racism is being lampooned, such as movies like Blazing Saddles

[Nuclear Unicorn]

6. I chortled

[GodlessBiker]

5. How about this? Instead of Nazis, we call them "Huns," a menace sufficiently distant in time...

Jordanes, a Goth writing in Italy in 551, a century after the collapse of the Hunnic Empire, describes the Huns as a "savage race, which dwelt at first in the swamps,—a stunted, foul and puny tribe, scarcely human, and having no language save one which bore but slight resemblance to human speech."

To me, calling them Huns fits quite nicely.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. The difference is, the Huns were savage barbarians with scant concept

of what civilization was, even for their time. The Nazis were civilized, cultured, well educated people who appreciated the finer things of life such as theater, music, and art, and were skilled in technology and the sciences. And they were Christian.

Don't believe it can't happen here.

[GodlessBiker]

45. The Huns designation does fit them. They don't know what having a society means.

[fascisthunter]

7. I use it, and so do my German relatives

people need to stop feeling as if these folks are that much different from those who aided in the rise of the Thrid Reich.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

8. Do your German friends descend from Nazis?

nty.

[fascisthunter]

19. said nothing about "friends"... I said relatives

and yes, some were forced into the german army, my grandfather, being one of them gave himself up to the Americans to get out. Most Germans living there now have had someone in their family who fought on the german side voluntarily or by force. If ya didn't do as you were told, you lost your life.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

23. I'm not talking about the Wehrmacht (German Army)

I'm asking if they descend from SS officers, either camp guards or Waffen. Anyone who served in either of those gets 0 sympathy from me. There's a reason that Wehrmacht soldiers got their pensions after WWII and the SS fucks did not. While the Wehrmacht was off fighting the Americans and the Soviets, the SS were gassing Jews, gypsies and suspected communists.

[fascisthunter]

24. no... my grandfather was fighting the Russians

then deserted after his plane got hit. He managed to somehow turn himself over to the Americans, yet the Americans sent him over as a prisoner of war back to the Russians. He did not work in a concentration camp nor do I know of any relatives in the SS.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

28. Okay, well many of those Germans

who think we have a Nazi problem in our country do in fact descend from SS soldiers (you can't dispute that), and so they have no business commenting on our alleged Nazi problem.

[fascisthunter]

30. they have every right to say what they want

and so do I... you have a problem with that too fucking bad. Those folks I talked, see the same parrallels they saw in the rise of the nazi party are actually the ones trying to warn us of the same mistakes they(the country) made. Those who support the right wing would rather we just ignore those parrallels. Have a nice day... :hi:

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

32. You have a nice day, too, taking advice from people whose parents

helped murder my relatives.

[fascisthunter]

37. You seem very upset germans warn others about the evils of nazis...

... can I ask you a serious question: do you hate all germans or just those who say shit you don't want to hear? You seem rather hatefilled yourself.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

47. I don't hate all Germans

I don't hate Germans, and I don't hold people responsible for the sins of their ancestors. On the other hand, you'd think that people who are direct descendants of Nazis would be a bit more careful about referring to other people as Nazis.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. You know the Einzgruppen killed many of my relatives too

And people who survived see the parallels too...

Never again means learning from it.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

48. It's Einsatzgruppen

And you don't speak for those who survive. I don't care if a couple see the "parallels." There's still some Holocaust survivors left in this country. Poll them and see if they think it's appropriate to refer to American political opponents as Nazis. I'd poll my relatives, but they all died. Never forgetting means never letting something like that happen again. It doesn't mean calling everyone you disagree with a Nazi until the word Nazi becomes part of our everyday lexicon and it has lost its meaning completely. Then, when the real Nazis come, people will accuse us of crying wolf once again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Well my dad who just passed saw the parallels

So does a friend of us who lost all at Aushwitz. By the way so do a few specialists in the subject.

Of course none is calling them nazis...since history never quite repeats itself that way, but nazi patterns. We also call them PROTO FASCISTS. You truly believe the nazis came fully formed from Zeus's head? Are you that ignorant? Never again also means seeing the warning signs, which obviously you are incapable of doing.

Not needed to tell you what I truly think of this attitude...

[RaleighNCDUer]

66. While every member of the SS had to be a Nazi, not every Nazi

was a member of the SS.

And SS battalions were among some of the most effective troops on the Western front:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malmedy_massacre

On the Eastern front, Wehrmacht troops supported the SS and Einsatzgruppen in their crimes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einsatzgruppen

Perhaps you need to better know the enemy.

[Nye Bevan]

12. I guess that makes your German relatives feel better about themselves.

"OK, so Gramps was a commandant at an extermination camp, but Obama is just like Hitler! So Grampa is no worse than Arne Duncan!"

[fascisthunter]

22. you would read that in my post because you can't stand the truth

this breed of right wing is the closest thing to the nazis we have seen in this country, and we know for a FACT the American right wing once supported the nazis. Face it, the right wingers are today's AMERICAN nazis...

You are too ignorant to ruffle my feathers with that sophmoric jab.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

26. If the right wingers are today's American Nazis,

then how come the denizens of the Americans white supremacist forums on the internet are not lining up behind Republicans? You won't find bigger Nazi supporters than white supremacists. I've visited these forums before as part of a school research project, and these racists think that the Republican Party is too "pro-Jew and too pro-Israel." They think the Democratic Party is controlled by blacks and Mexicans. They advocate confiscating the wealth of all "non-whites" and kicking said people out of the country or executing them, and then dispensing that wealth to all "good" white people. Do some research.

[fascisthunter]

29. Um... this GOP has enough right wingers to make it cozy for them

they may state they don't care for either party however I gaurentee you they aren't voting democratic... I've done my research and I've talked to folks about the current agenda of the American right wing with folks who grew up during WWII in Germany. I'll take their word for it since what I have read about both the nazis and the american right wing, have way too many parallels. You wanna wait for the right wing to take over before making any judgment, fine... nobody stopping you.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

34. I don't give a shit about people who grew up during WWII in Germany

I realize that they couldn't exactly stand up to Hitler and stop what he was doing, but you would THINK that they would have a little more RESPECT for the millions of victims.

Germany has been trying to forget that the Holocaust happened for years. Some would like us to believe that Germany and Austria have laws against denying the Holocaust because they are sensitive to the victims. That's fucking horseshit. They have laws against it because they don't want people to REMEMBER IT, and those LAWS are limitations on the right of free speech, which is something HITLER ALSO DID when he came to power. Maybe the Germans should focus on the flaws of their own society first, and the rapid rise of Neo Nazi groups. There are more Neo Nazi groups per capita in Germany than there are in the United States. Germany has always been far more anti-Semitic.

[fascisthunter]

40. take a chill pill and go for a walk... I'm done talking to you

you hatred for all germans is all yours. I prefer to hold my hatred for the reich wingers. Buh-bye.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

46. Whatever

I love how you assume that I must hate all Germans because I take offense at some of them referring to some of us as Nazis.

[NOMOREDRUGWAR]

50. A poll a few years ago in Stern (German magazine) indicated that

23% of Germans have anti-semitic attitudes. 12% of Americans, by contrast, have anti-semitic attitudes. The percentage of Germans with anti-semitic views has been increasing over the years, while the percentage of Americans with anti-semitic views has been decreasing over the years.

So please tell me, dear fascisthunter, why aren't you hunting for the Nazi in Germany?

Oh, I know why. Because it is far easier to throw that label around on a message board.

[sufrommich]

9. How about never. Nazis have their own place in history. I'm

tired of seeing the word nazi watered down to mean "bad politician".

[Rabblevox]

11. the short answer is...never...

I beg you not to conflate our very real political problems with Nazi-ism. Our problems are real, and there are evil fuck-wads running amok. But nobody is going to the camps, nobody is being gassed, no corpses are having their dental work pulled from their mouths.

My grandmother died in a camp. (Mauthausen) She wasn't gassed or shot, she simply got sick and died. (along with about 150,000 others)

We may well be on the road to Fascism. I fear that, deeply. And the lesson of the Nazi's is clear and pertinent. But by calling Perry, Bachman, Romney, Palin, et al "Nazi's" you cheapen and degrade history.

[Nye Bevan]

17. I have read several horrifying books about the Holocaust.

Your grandmother was murdered by the Nazis just as surely as if she had been gassed or shot. If anything, being shot would have been better than what she went through.

The Holocaust was a unique horror and I am sick of the "we are living under Nazis" brigade cheapening it.

I am very sorry for your family's loss.

[GodlessBiker]

25. +100.

[IndyPragmatist]

13. Never

It was wrong to call Bush a Nazi, it was wrong to call Obama a Nazi, it's wrong to call anyone a Nazi, except a Nazi.

Lets be honest here, as much as we hate Republicans, it's pretty ridiculous to compare them to Nazis. They are not trying to exterminate an entire ethnic group.

I understand what people are trying to say when they call someone a Nazi, but it makes light of one of the worst periods of time in human existence. I am of Jewish blood, but I do not practice. Luckily, none of my immediate family was directly impacted by the Holocaust. However, to compare anyone to the Nazis is somewhat offensive. It really makes light of a terrible period of time, and I don't care which side its coming from, it's wrong!

[JTFrog]

15. .

[JohnnyLib2]

16. Another vote for never.

[Rabblevox]

18. Howzabout we call them Fascists (which fits) rather than Nazi's (which doesn't fit)...

believe me, I'm NOT trying to be an apologist for Perry, Bachmann, or any of their ilk. They flat-out disgust me. But THEY ARE NOT NAZI'S! Call them out for what they do, not for a politically correct box you want to put them in.

[pintobean]

20. The need for deception in your subject line

should be your first clue.

[Taverner]

21. ..

..

[Yo_Mama]

27. Never, just never.

Just like it's never going to be okay to call a woman the "C" word or a gay the "F" word.

Life is hard enough - there is no excuse for abusing each other.

On edit:
Unless, of course, the person really IS a Nazi, and believes in racially/eugenically justified mass murder, etc. Just calling someone a Nazi whom you don't like is blurring some historical realities that should not be obfuscated. There ARE real Nazis out there today, but very few.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sfpcjock]

33. Never. I actually think it applies to facists and oligarchs but I just avoid using it.

(usually).

Look, do you think the right has no sophistication? All of those Frank Luntz types and pseudo scholars at Heritage, Cato, Freedom Works, Crossroads GPS, Koch, Coors, etc., etc.? No. They even have mass prisons constructed all over this country with Homeland Security money to impound you or I or any protestor, person whose email, phone calls or web history they dislike. Or even anyone with debts--they can bring back debtors' prison and put us away. They don't have to kill us or anything that messy. This is how it has evolved. So, not really Nazi's. No.

[Romulox]

52. A "democracy" run by corporations is ALREADY fascism.

We're already well into all of this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Ding, ding, ding, ding

Thread winnah

[War Horse]

61. Never

They're authoritarian, far right, nationalists, tribalist... I'd be careful about using "Fascist" as well.

Just call them teabaggers/teahadis or whatever for now. Future lexicons will define this particular movement.

[The Wizard]

62. It's all right here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCY4rpcMtAQ

[WingDinger]

63. The PROPER term for them is: SadoFascists.

[left on green only]

64. I Don't Think That It Will It Ever Be Okay To Use The "N" Word. Not At Least In My Time.

In fact, I am so uncomfortable with the "N" word that I used to refer to the past governor of my state only as "Arnie Schwartz". But being that he always was a right wing egotist who by his own admission never had any trouble taking advantage of, and manipulating others around him (yes, even going all of the way back to his early days of bodybuilding competitions), I have never had any trouble at all with calling him a nazi, while puking at his vision of a right wing master race of republifacists that he wanted to turn California into.