So I Gotta Ask... At What Point Do You Object To The Policies Of This White House ???

[WillyT]

Does he have to invade Canada???

No... that would be stupid, and a "straw man".

How about Mexico ???

They've been talking Drone Strikes ya know.

I mean... I've been a Democrat for decades, but some will support ANYTHING as long as the Republicans don't take power.

And THERE... is the fucking dilemma.

:shrug:

[pintobean]

1. K/R

[JohnnyRingo]

2. I object, but I don't reject.

I'm not about to shoot myself, and the whole country in our collective foot by ceding the White House to republicans because I'm mad at Obama. Will you?

[truth2power]

44. You seek to minimize the issue. It is much, MUCH more serious

than people just being 'mad' at Obama...boo hoo.

Intelligent and credible people all around the blogosphere are voicing their concern, even horror, at Obama's actions or lack thereof. The OP asks a salient question.

How are we different from the people whom we ridiculed during the Bush reign of terror, who supported Bush no matter what?


edit> who to whom. Ouch.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

48. How do we condemn Iraq when we tacitly support Libya

Supposedly we have to keep Obama to keep us from being launched into wars of aggression. There wasn't even a pretense of national security for Libya, we just up and attacked a sovereign nation that was of no threat to us so a bunch of colonialist could strike deals for cheap oil. They aren't even trying to set up a democratic government, the EU will just cut deals wit whichever group of armed thugs occupies the refineries on a given day.

Then there's Gitmo still open but closed to scrutiny. The wiretaps go on. We've insitituted extra-judicial assassinations in violation of US and international law. Indefintite detentions.

Remind me again what it was that made the GOP so nefarious. Nevermind holding Obama accountable for wars of aggression; when do we hold oursleves accountable? I'm not voting to condone or excuse away those policies. I will always vote my conscience even if I have to write-in "My teddy" in 2012.

[AverageJoe90]

55. I agree completely. n/t

[tcaudilllg]

93. You object,

but sometimes objection requires rejection. He has choices... when he makes bad choices, he should be punished.

Do you think yourself a "chaotic neutral" individual? Just wondering...

[JohnnyRingo]

100. Reject Obama/Embrace Romney?

No thanks. I guess I'm not that mad at the president that I'd do that.

Don't even start on a primary challenge either. I haven't seen one nickel of funding nor anyone willing to take on the job with one year to go, so it's a moot point.

The 2012 election will come down to Obama vs one of the crackpots on tonight's debate stage, and I hope you aren't considering "punishing Obama" along with the rest of us to make your discontent known.

[pscot]

3. I objected when he he appointed Geithner

and Summers. It's been downhill ever since.

[progressoid]

8. And Duncan and Emanuel and ...

:grr:

[dennis4868]

14. yep ever since...

such a bad idea to get rid of preexisting conditions, DADT, free preventative care for woman, more health insurance for children, more grants for college, it went all down hill from there...what utter BS...typical DUer...ignore all the good things Obama does...fuck that!

[Ken Burch]

20. The pre-existing condition exclusion ban is meaningless without price controls on coverage

Massively raising the premiums on the folks with pre-existing conditions is the same thing as refusing to cover them. Is that THAT hard to understand?

There were no MEANINGFUL gains in the healthcare bill. It wasn't worth passing as less-than-half-a-loaf.

[dennis4868]

38. the exchanges kick in in 2014...

when health care costs will be much more affordable...don't blame Obama to have to wait until 2014, that was congress and the dems caveing. And of course pre-existing conditions is a big deal NOW...do you know how many people now have health insurance that did not have it before the law went into effect? Don't give me your bullshit irrational Obama hateful answers!

[Creideiki]

27. You really don't want to bring up DADT. After all, the White House could have let it end

months earlier. They're just caught up in the moronic red-blue summer camp color war, and couldn't allow even the most disfavored Republican group a victory. They needed it to be all about them instead of all about the men and women serving.

[Erose999]

31. Not to mention that DOMA is still on the books. All the next GOP potus would have to do is start

prosecuting.

Obama has done very little with regards to gay rights. He could have killed DADT with an EO on day one. He could have pressured the Dem supermajority congress into repealing DADT and DOMA. Instead Obama and Congress both sat on their hands and blew their opportunity to make progress.

And the Obama goes out and enables the right wing by campaigning for Blue Dogs like Nelson and Lincoln.

[dennis4868]

35. Ohh sure, Obama has done very little for gay rights!

FEDERAL LEGISLATION SIGNED INTO LAW

*Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim’s actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history
*Signed repeal of Don't Ask/Don't Tell
*Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act


POLICIES CHANGED

*Reversed an inexcusable US position by signing the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity
*Extended benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees in 2009 and, further, in 2010
*Lifted the HIV Entry Ban effective January 2010
*Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees
*Committed to ensuring that federal housing programs are open to all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity
*Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAG

*Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)
*Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept our relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage
*Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights
*Required all grant applicants seeking HUD funding to comply with state and local anti-discrimination laws that protect LGBT individuals
*Adopted transgender recommendations on the issuance of gender-appropriate passports that will ease barriers to safe travel and that will provide government-issued ID that avoids involuntary "outing" in situations requiring ID, like hiring, where a gender-appropriate driver's license or birth certificate is not available
*Extended domestic violence protections to LGBT victims
*Extended the Family and Medical Leave Act to cover employees taking unpaid leave to care for the children of same-sex partners
*Issued guidance specifically to assist LGBT tenants denied housing on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity
*Issued a National HIV/AIDS Strategy praised as "long-overdue" by the Task Force, Lambda and others
*Issued guidance to 15,000 local departments of education and 5,000 colleges to support educators in combating bullying
*Cut back authority to discharge under Don't Ask/Don't Tell from hundreds of generals to just 6 civilian appointees, effectively ending discharges while working toward a permanent end to the policy.
*Led the fight that reversed a 2010 UN vote removing sexual orientation from the list of things people should not be killed for
*Launched the first-ever national study of discrimination against members of the LGBT community in the rental and sale of housing
*Determined that Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional, that discrimination against LGBT citizens should be subject to "heightened scrutiny" and that it will no longer defend this portion of the law in court.
*Vacated a court order that would have deported a gay American's Venezuelan partner


RESPECT & INCLUSION

*Endorsed the Baldwin-Lieberman bill, The Domestic Partnership Benefits and Obligations Act of 2009, to provide FULL partnership benefits to federal employees
*Released the first Presidential PRIDE proclamations since 2000
*Hosted the first LGBT Pride Month Celebration in White House history
*Awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom to Harvey Milk and Billie Jean King, joining past recipients such as Rosa Parks
*Appointed the first ever transgender DNC member
*Testified in favor of ENDA, the first time any official of any administration has testified in the Senate on ENDA
*Hired more openly LGBT officials (like these) in its first two years -- more than 150, including more than 20 "Senate-confirmables" -- than any previous administration hired in four years or eight
*Sworn in Ambassador David Huebner
*Changed the culture of government everywhere from – among others – HUD and HHS to the Export-Import Bank, the State Department, and the Department of Education
*Appointed Justices Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan, instead of conservatives who would have tilted the Court even further to the right and virtually doomed our rights for a generation. To wit (quoting McCain): "I've said a thousand times on this campaign trail, I've said as often as I can, that I want to find clones of Alito and Roberts. I worked as hard as anybody to get them confirmed. I look you in the eye and tell you I've said a thousand times that I wanted Alito and Roberts. I have told anybody who will listen. I flat-out tell you I will have people as close to Roberts and Alito ."

*Named open transgender appointees (the first President ever to do so)
*Emphasized LGBT inclusion in everything from the President’s historic NAACP address (“The pain of discrimination is still felt in America. By African American women paid less for doing the same work as colleagues of a different color and a different gender. By Latinos made to feel unwelcome in their own country. By Muslim Americans viewed with suspicion simply because they kneel down to pray to their God. By our gay brothers and sisters, still taunted, still attacked, still denied their rights.”) . . . to the first paragraph of his Family Day proclamation (“Whether children are raised by two parents, a single parent, grandparents, a same-sex couple, or a guardian, families encourage us to do our best and enable us to accomplish great things”) and his Mothers Day proclamation ("Nurturing families come in many forms, and children may be raised by two parents, a single mother, two mothers, a step-mom, a grandmother, or a guardian. Mother's Day gives us an opportunity to celebrate these extraordinary caretakers") . . . to creating the chance for an adorable 10-year-old at the White House Easter Egg roll to tell ABC World News how cool it is to have two mommies . . . to including the chair of the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce along with the Secretary of the Treasury and the President of Goldman Sachs in the small audience for the President’s economic address at the New York Stock Exchange . . . to welcoming four gay couples to its first State Dinner
*Recommitted, in a televised address, to passing ENDA . . . repealing Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell . . . repealing the so-called Defense of Marriage Act
*Spoken out against discrimination at the National Prayer Breakfast ("We may disagree about gay marriage, but surely we can agree that it is unconscionable to target gays and lesbians for who they are -- whether it's here in the United States or, as Hillary mentioned, more extremely in odious laws that are being proposed most recently in Uganda.")
*Dispatched the Secretary of Defense and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to call on the Senate to repeal Don't Ask / Don't Tell
*Launched a website to gather public comment on first-ever federal LGBT housing discrimination study
*Appointed long-time equality champion Chai Feldblum one of the four Commissioners of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
*Produced U.S. Census Bureau PSAs featuring gay, lesbian, and transgender spokespersons
*Appointed Retired Colonel Margarethe Cammermeyer, an early public champion of open service in the military, to the Defense Advisory

Committee on Women in the Services
*Publicly invited the shunned MIssissippi high school prom student to the White House
*Successfully fought for UN accreditation of IGLHRC (the International Gay & Lesbian Human Rights Commission) -- against Republican attempts to block it
*Convened the first-ever anti-bullying summit to craft a national strategy to reduce bullying in schools
*Launched stopbullying.gov
*Awarded $13.3 million to the LA Gay & Lesbian Center to create a model program for LGBTQ youth in the foster care system
*Tweeted to 5.7 million BarackObama followers and nearly 2 million WhiteHouse followers the President's "It Gets Better" video
*Embraced that campaign with heartfelt messages from, as well, the Vice President, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of *Agriculture (aimed particularly at rural youth), the Secretaries of Education and Health & Human Services, the Secretary of Labor (in English and Spanish), the Director of OPM and LGBT members of the White House staff
*Issued a Department of Justice video urging kids to call a Justice Department toll-free number if their school is aware of bullying but taking no action
*Held the first ever White House conference on bullying prevention, led by the President and First Lady
*Hosted first-ever White House transgender policy meeting
http://www.equalitygiving.org/Accomplishments-by-the-Ad...


Here are a few links corroborating this.
http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/gay-rights-preside...

[dennis4868]

36. no, it was all about making the repeal of DADT...

a law so that it would not be easy in the future for a repub president to overturn it....get with the facts! stop with your IRRATIONAL OBAMA HATE :-(

[Erose999]

40. Ahh, a list. Most of entries of which were speeches. How many people were effected by DADT and DOMA

while he hemmed and hawed about what to do about them. How many people will be effected when President Perry or Bachmann starts prosecuting DOMA again in 2012 or 2016?

The hate crime legislation was important, as was lifting the HIV entry ban and expanding HIV treatment. But those are a drop in the bucket compared to what he could be doing.

[dennis4868]

42. "what he could be doing"

and that ladies and gentlement is the problem with many liberals...NEVER APPRECIATE WHAT GETS DONE AND ONLY FOCUS WHAT DID NOT GET DONE...they expect complete and perfect progressive change in 10 minutes (not knowing how the political system works). Total BS!

[Erose999]

54. So you'll be ok with President Teabagger prosecuting DOMA again in 2013 or 2016? Because it was

"a problem" to expect "complete progressive change".

All of the gains for gay rights made in the states will disappear when a rightwing Prez. brings back DOMA.

[Ken Burch]

70. If SSM has majority support, no president will dare bring back DOMA

Face it, the wait WASN'T worth it.

[dennis4868]

71. DOMA...

can only be repealed via passing legislation through congress...is it Obama's fault that the repeal cannot get through the TEA PARTY House and 24/7 fillubuster senate...GOTV in 2012 and lets take control of the House and senate!

[Creideiki]

98. "what he can't do"

and that ladies and gentlement is the problem with many conservatives. Blind adherence to the cult of personality instead of results.

[Creideiki]

96. You're not gay. Why do you continue with the

IRRATIONAL OBAMA FELLATING?

[hifiguy]

37. Yep.

and for me the final straw was caving on and extending the Boosh Plutocracy Protection tax rates.

[gateley]

4. I object to several of his policies already, and will probably

object to more, but I'm one of the ones who will vote for whomever just to keep a Republican out. If I object to some of Obama's policies, that's nothing compared to how I'd feel about President Perry's.

[Iggo]

25. ^^^ This.

[rsmith6621]

5. Im in your CHOIR WillyT

sad there are some on the DU that would be fine if OBAMA sent the middle class down the river...

[WillyT]

9. Hey You !!!

:bounce:

:pals:

:hi:

:kick:

[xiamiam]

45. no if about it..its already in motion with no help from this administration..nt

[woo me with science]

62. IF??????

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/many-in-us-slip-from-middle-class-study-finds/2011/09/06/gIQA76ut7J_story.html

[Starbucks Anarchist]

72. Didn't you say you'd vote for Bloomberg for president yesterday?

[Historic NY]

99. You probably will be more comfortable with a President Paul who hates the minumum wage law.

[Shagbark Hickory]

6. I object more to what he/they isn't/aren't doing.

Jobs, energy and housing are beyond critical stage.

[WillyT]

7. Hey Unreccers... You're A Little Late... Try To Keep Up...

:D

:hi:

[pintobean]

11. WTF?

It's a shame I already recced. I won't be so quick next time.

[WillyT]

15. It's One Of Those Irreversible Decisions...

I feel you pain.

[Demit]

10. WillyT, the policies were objectionable when a (registered) Republican had them.

As soon as there is another (registered) Republican in the White House, the policies will become objectionable again. In the meantime, they must be excused and explained away. Fabulous exercise in cognitive dissonance, isn't it?

[LWolf]

24. Cognitive dissonance is one way to put it.

I call it hypocrisy, and it makes me :puke:.

But then, I can be a bit blunt at times, lol.

[Demit]

32. Well...I think people are clinging to the hope that Obama really is a Democrat, despite everything.

And that, somehow, things will turn out all right in the end, if we just stick with him. So I don't think it's conscious hypocrisy. It's just refusing to see what's in front of your eyes, because the betrayal hurts so bad.

I've been thinking of that scene in Rosemary's Baby...when Mia Farrow turns for help to the doctor, the one man she thought she could trust, only to find out he's part of the cult too. That's what I think of when I try to describe how I feel.

[Altoid_Cyclist]

92. This is starting to look a lot like a Charlie Brown special.

Linus sitting forlornly in a pumpkin patch while everyone else is able to see the truth is appropriate after all of the prior times that we have been disappointed by Pres. Obama.

I am through waiting for the Great Pumpkin just as I am about to stop giving Pres. Obama any more chances.

After the latest debacle, what would be much different? Clean air and water.....MEH...the R's got just what they wanted (as usual). Change I used to believe in just doesn't carry the same elan.

[hulka38]

97. Awesome analogy.

[LWolf]

110. I've felt that way, too, but my eyes have been opened for a few years.

It must take a great deal of determination to STILL not see.

[PufPuf23]

76. More like lack of integrity and blatant corruption nt

[LWolf]

109. That, too. nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

60. +1000!

[dennis4868]

12. don't get what u r saying?

we are thinking of invading Canada? Did Canada steal one of our baseball teams? Thought we took one away from them...I'm confused :-(

[mopinko]

13. object, maybe. complain? not now.

i got my campaign hat on already. i got no trash talk left. it's come together time if you ask me.

[WillyT]

16. I'm Hoping For Thursday... But I've Been Hoping For Almost 3 Years Now...

Hoffa got me goin... even Biden got me goin... and Obama did pretty good on Labor Day...

I'll get back to you Thursday night/Friday morning.

:hi:

[Ken Burch]

21. You would at least agree that Obama owes it to us

not to go any further to the right on anything at all...right?

You would at least agree that this is the most conservative set of policies he has the right to ask this party to swallow, wouldn't you?

I mean, you'd have to.

Because if it's this far right before the election, it will have to stay this far right after the election.

[mopinko]

23. let me put it this way

i do not buy into the perception that obama is all that far right. i think it is played up by the other side to divide us.
i do think that he has spent more time and energy working on the economy than he would have if it had been in good shape. he has done what the federal government could do to work with big business to keep thing moving. i wish that all wasn't necessary, but something is. he would know better than i.

but then again, i never had a whole lot of trash talk to start with. always seemed to be plenty.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jbnow]

18. What point are you making here? Do you think there are people

here who support every policy he makes?
I suppose every policy might have someone who will defend it but I doubt they are always the same people. I don't always pay attention to names though, maybe I am wrong and there are people who think Obama does it then it is right. I haven't met anyone who thinks that way.

So if constant supporters exist and are who you are talking to, well I get that. So are you just asking these constant supporters (real or imagined) what kind of policy they could not accept?

Or are you asking at what point any of us quit supporting Obama in general, refuse to vote for him or whatever?
There hasn't been a president who didn't have policies I really disagreed with, Obama is no exception.
But I really absolutely, positively, completely, wholeheartedly do not want a republican president in 2012. I in that way support Obama.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fumesucker]

22. ...

[spanone]

29. as are his detractors

[Bobbie Jo]

39. No kidding. nt

[dionysus]

33. bless your heart

[JoePhilly]

56. The OP presents a false strawman.

By assuming support is equal to 100% agreement on all policies.

Personally, I think the straw-man is built via "projection".

The OP is never going to support Obama, and it will never mater what Obama actually does. Positives will be ignored, or downplayed to the point where the become irrelevant.

Remember DADT? Before the repeal it was a HUGE deal. Now, apparently its a non-issue. Same is true on so many fronts.

[Odin2005]

26. I objected with the Healthcare debacle.

[HughBeaumont]

28. Extension of the Bewsh tax cuts.

I was extremely patient up until then. I really did not think he was going to do it, but the goddamned Republicans held the unemployed hostage and he, of course, caved.

I cannot stand that he actually believes the worst of the Chi-School bullshit when it comes to economics. Republicanized solutions cannot cure Republican-created problems.

[bighart]

30. At what point does the white house "own" policy

that was started under the previous administration but continued or expanded under the current one?

[FiveGoodMen]

64. At the point where they decide to continue or expand it.

[dionysus]

34. So I Gotta Ask... At What Point Do You Stop Campaigning Against Obama and Start Fighting the GOP???

:shrug:

[Erose999]

41. Is there really a difference between complaining about Obama and fighting the GOP? The agendas are

the same the only difference is the timeline upon which they are acted out.

[JoePhilly]

52. Nonsense. nt

[Veracious]

91. LOL Yeah riiiiiight

If the Republicans win you get ZERO! And if you dont think there is a difference then you need to take sometime to study the issues.

[xiamiam]

43. here comes the list..lol..i was wondering how the lives of any of those loyalists has been improved

does anyone actually feel safe? or represented? or that their voice and vote mattered?

[swilton]

46. K&R

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. I started objecting before he took office and said he'd escalate the lost war in Afghanistan.

One of the few promises he actually kept to the ruin of 3 countries. America, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.

[indepat]

49. I object to any policy of this or any WH which endorses/ratifies/continues any policy, action, or

initiative or appointment of junior's. :patriot:

[mike_c]

50. I rejected the Obama administration well before November 2008...

My line in the sand was immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan. Since neither potential democratic party candidate was willing to stand up and do the right thing, neither got any support from me. Nor will they ever.

[Romulox]

51. Never. I *USED* to be for Workers and against War.

Not any more!

[JoePhilly]

53. Continued "support" of Presdient Obama does not equal 100% agreement.

Your straw-man is false.

You seem to think that one must either agree with every Obama policy and action, and if not, one must abandon him.

Honestly, it is easier to show how some on DU will disregard ANYTHING good Obama has done out of hand, usually by folks who have one key issue, and unless that one goes the way they want, they're out.

But again, support for Obama, is not equal to, 100% agreement on all things.

No dilemma at all.

[Octafish]

57. The moment he starts to tax the CEOs.

That's the final line in the tar sands.

[Le Taz Hot]

58. Way, way back when he chose Rahm Emmanuel

as his COS. It's been downhill from there. Interestingly enough, I was in the minority on DU in those days.

[tgal]

63. You were right

Knew we were duped when 'hope and change' morphed into same old corporate clap trap with emmanuel in our house. That was a big eye opening surprise.

The the Rick Warren crap....sickening.

Sorry you were in the minority, especially on a site that has 'Underground" in it's name.

You were and are right.

tgal

[truebrit71]

65. I didn't think he was a good pick either....he was a profane DLC'er...

...and just about nothing else...

Obama did exactly the same thing Clinton did..ran as a lefty and once elected ran straight towards the middle...

[Whisp]

59. at what point do you accept that Obama isn't a caver do nothing

and has many accomplishments.

I see a glass half full, I see things progressing.
lots of people want all or nothing - that is for children. The world doesn't work that way

[Romulox]

61. He's not a "caver" in the least. He's a "center-right" politician. Watch we he DOES, as what he

SAYS will change depending on the audience.

But President Obama is without a doubt a man of convictions. I believe that *he* believes deeply in recapitalizing Wall Street with taxpayer money, for example, and in things like mandatory for-profit insurance and the War on Drugs.

[DaveJ]

84. Children who had overly strict parents. NT

[defendandprotect]

66. That's the "no place to go" argument -- there are places to go -- we need a challenger for 2012!!

And we need to find out what's left of the Dem Party after 20 years and more of

Koch Bros/DLC influence -- on the agenda and its candidates -- including its

presidential candidates -- !!


Considering how many here now understand that we elected a corporate president,

imo, we should be rsising up to draft someone to run against him --

Howevever, perhaps the fact that no Dems are standing up against all of this

corporate money backing Obama is a message in itself which we should be listening to!!??


If Sen. Bernie Sanders would run, it could be a dual ticket -- he could run on the Dem

ticket -- and it would almost be a "word of mouth" race given his reputation!!


Otoh, we could also all PLEDGE to not support any candidate who takes corporate money --

that's would be a move that would put decisions back in the voters' hands --

If all American voters would make that PLEDGE we'd be back in charge of elections --




I think --

[xiamiam]

82. ok..lets do that..not vote for anyone who takes corporate money

might not work..but i'm in..extremely offensive to me that obama said early on his goal was to raise one billion for this campaign..disgusting..we dont realize our power..turn off the tv and the radio..encourage everyone you know to the same..as long as everyone is watching..that is what is determining whatever election

[defendandprotect]

104. You know, last election, Speaker Pelosi tried -- very ironically --

to make the point that the GOP were heavy with corporate money --

She called it "Poo on their shoe!" -- honestly!!


So I do think there is something of a sensitivity there that could be developed,

but we'd need someone like Matt Damon -- or Michael Moore -- to make that kind

of a suggestion to the public --


but, of course, we can still keep pushing those ideas here!! :hi:


Turning off the TV would be a beginning on denying corporations money --

And, I think a lot of people must be turning off the TVs -- ?


Have you noticed ALL of the "paid programs" running these days --

One Sunday evening at 5:30 recently I put on the TV and on one of the major networks

they were running a "paid program" --


Doubly aggravating because we give them the air space to play program for the public --

and they turn around and sell it to advertizers -- not only advertisers, but for hour

long commercials!

Too bad we don't have a government/Congress to deal with this crap!!


:evilgrin:


Keep on tellin' it -- !!

[defendandprotect]

67. Eloping into White House with Koch Bros./DLC Rahm Emmanuel .....and the Wall St. team ...!!

The very people who created the meltdown --

Was obvious from that point where Obama was going --

Sad -- but obvious --

[Javaman]

68. sometimes I go to the bottom of a thread to see if it's been locked yet.

nope So...In before the lock.

[JuniperLea]

69. Ditto...

Surprised it's lasted this long.

[treestar]

73. When the WH is held by a Republican and Congress is

also - then there ain't much that can be done. So don't allow that to happen again.

[Exultant Democracy]

74. I didn't support Clinton because my great fear was she would hire someone like Rahm as COS

[cascadiance]

75. And thus this feeling once John Edwards left for reasons only insiders knew at the time...

... which I wonder were part of the equation to limit our real choices. Wish I'd been more on the Kucinich bandwagon instead of Edwards then!

[ThomWV]

77. For me it was December of last year when Obama signed the extension of the Bush Tax Cuts

I considered it unconscionable for him to do that. It bothered me when he caved to Republicans without so much as a whimper of a fight on Single Payer but in that case he had simply done something that would not help the country but did not do any harm to it. When he signed those tax cuts back into law he was doing harm to the nation, and he knew it. There is, to my mind, no excuse for that. It is not the job of the President, under pressure, to do anything that is actually bad for the country. He may be coaxed into doing something that isn't good for the country, and serves a special interest and no one else, but as long as its not actually bad for the country I used to be able to live with it.

It is a straight forward fact that if he had not signed that extension we would be in much better economic shape right now and on our way to full recovery. It is also a straight forward fact that there will, and in fact can be no end to this "recession" until those tax cuts die. Obama prolonged the suffering of the nation with that extension - and who can justify him having done that? What possible excuse is there?

[NorthCarolina]

78. Well said. Vote your conscience. If that means you have to cast a write-in ballot

to be able to vote your conscience, then that's what works for you. It's called the Democratic process. Thos who vote for party alone, independent of what the candidate stands for, is exactly what allowed the DLC to fuck the Democratic Party up in the first place. Democracy has no room for blind allegiance.

[bvar22]

79. There are many places good Democrats could draw the line, like

*Forcing every American to buy an expensive, near useless junk product from a Corporation every year would be one
...Oops.
My Bad.

*Pushing FOR Slashing Government Spending and de-funding the Safety Net during a Recession!
No "Democrat" would EVER do THAT!
er, my bad again.

*I GOT it.
Pushing FOR MORE Free Trade!
That would PISS OFF any Democrat,
because Democrats are supposed to be FOR the Working Class!
He hasn't crossed THAT line yet, has he?

I don't know, man.
What traditional Democratic Value has he STOOD UP FOR?
Has he moved the ball forward on any of the following Democratic Party Values?

"In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.

For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."--FDR

You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

Solidarity!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[woo me with science]

80. K&R

This is the disconnect of Third Way messaging that I have noticed. Except for the few who openly advocate Third Way (read: Republican) policies, there is a constant shifting by Third Way Democrats between insisting that they support the same core values and goals as other Democrats, and accusing other Democrats of being extreme fringe purists and pony seekers for holding those very same values and policy goals.

It's a tough situation to be in, and very confusing for the electorate. Some Democrats, particularly former Republicans and Reagan Democrat-types, have signed on enthusiastically and truly believe in the Republican-like direction. I think many, many others are just genuinely confused by the disconnect between the administration's words and policies. The disconnect between claimed values and actions is probably why so many people still perceive this President as "weak" or "waffling" rather than extremely clever and careful about rhetoric.

[Deep13]

81. The Rick Warren inauguration speech. nt

[NNN0LHI]

83. When someone can convince me he is responsible for the economy which went to shit for me in 1980

And things have never really improved ever since. So it will be tough to get me to believe that though, seeing President Obama was just a kid when things went to shit and never got better for me.

Now if someone can convince me what happened back then is Obama's fault under the bus he goes.

But good luck proving that to me.

Don

[elehhhhna]

85. the deals. the war/s. the policy continuation of the BA.

i am heartsick about this president.

I'm from Chicago and he is a fascinating combination of what's wrong with Chicago and, to a lesser extent, State of Illinois politics, of which I've been following closely for 30 years ('70 to 2000ish).

I must be a masochist - we moved in the late 90's to Tom Delay's district in TX. Just in time to experience the Karla Faye Tucker/Gov. GWBush horror/mockfest/execution/fiasco. Six months later I met my extended family in the Netherlands and wellmannered tho they were, they DID question me incredulously about the whole thing -- barbaric to them -- and I was suddenly defending my (new, red) home state. The chinese proverb (curse) "May you live in interesting times" occurs to me when I think about politics now. As an avid, christian-raised (methodist) oldschool liberal who has, since my tweens, followed US politics and government (they USED TO BE TWO SEPERATE THINGS!)with a sense of optimism my disappointment shocks me.

Rambling now...sorry.


btw, rick perry is a fuckwit. worse than gwb. i'm series.

[DissedByBush]

86. Drone strikes would depend

If we patrol the border with drones, and their violence spills over into our country, we are fully within our rights to take them out with whatever weaponry the drone is carrying.

Now going deep into Mexico to target the gang leaders, I could see that only at the request of the Mexican government.

[Fly by night]

87. We passed that point so long ago, it's almost hard to detect in my rearview mirror.

Hope? Change? Bull. Shit.

[Veracious]

88. So I have to ask... When do political rookies stop crying and start working?

Wanna lose? Want Rick Perry? Want to hand the government over to the Tea Party? Keep up this type of completely unproductive BULLSHIT, and we will lose in 2012.

[WillyT]

89. I Hear Ya... But You Have To Understand... It's Tough Being All Powerful...

they keep putting too much starch in my cape.

:D

:hi:

[Veracious]

90. seriously

I agree with some of your points. ALL things in there proper place and time. And NOW is not the time for us to destroy our own chances in 2012.

[primavera]

102. When is the proper place and time?

I'm relieved to hear one of the administration's pragmatic supporters concede that there does exist a time and place to assess the decisions we've made as a party and how they've worked out and what kinds of decisions we would like to make in the future - few are willing to concede that much. But, if such a time and place does exist, then, may I ask, when and where is it? Personally, I would have thought that before primary season and a new campaign year began would have been an appropriate time and place, but apparently it's not the right time or place. So when and where is?

[SwampG8r]

107. yes i also would like to know

when these sycophants feel is the correct time to be disappointed
i bet its after he is reelected and can no longer be held to task since he will be a lame duck
oh wait ...no we will still have to shut up and eat peas cause we dont want to chance losing the next one either
what a crock of shit

[SwampG8r]

106. rookies?i been doing this since 1968

of course i have always done it for democrats so it may have gone unnoticed by this bunch

[Sirveri]

94. It doesn't matter, we need to live in fear of a Republican candidate.

I mean, imagine Bachmann as Pres, SO SCARY! BE AFRAID! YOU HAVE TO VOTE OBAMA TO PREVENT THAT! FEAR FEAR FEAR!

[OwnedByFerrets]

95. It IS a huge dilemma. I will pull that lever

AND I will continue to push for more progressive policies. I dont see that I have much of a choice...given the alternatives.

[elana i am]

101. not a dilemma

and not really even a choice.

if you consider obama a repug, then your choice for 2012 is between 2 repugs, because obama and another repug are going to be your only choices.

no progressive is capable of getting elected president right now. not. going. to. happen.

[JDPriestly]

103. I think that a lot of Democrats who support Obama don't really know

or think about what is going on.

They are very busy, very uninformed about the current economy and what has happened to our country or they became Obama supporters in 2008 and don't want to admit at this time that they were wrong.

It takes a lot of self-confidence and trust in yourself to admit you made a mistake.

I am ready to admit it.

[democrat2thecore]

105. One step further and a warning

After the ozone punt, I wrote in another thread:

Obama punt = campaign cash. I was fooled in '08 and I'm VERY disappointed ...

This is not the first or second or third or fourth or 35th disappointment. The hits just keep on comin'.
Flip-Flop has a new picture in the dictionary and it's all so very, very sad. I worked hard in '08 in Iowa (spent months there), I gave big bucks and...I was fooled. If I had a primary option - I'd work hard again for them. Obama has shown me that he is NOT to be trusted. Worst Democratic president in my 52 years.

I still haven't ruled out the possibility that Obama, at this late date, will pull an LBJ and halt his campaign. I fear he will drag down both houses of Congress to huge, landslide defeats. If it gets much worse - it's the only honorable thing to do.

[JDPriestly]

108. His poll results are still OK, but let's face it, those of us who

really watch politics have gradually learned to doubt his aims. Sad because he seems to be a nice guy and he has a lovely family, but he just isn't a Democrat.